Baleful Polymorph? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Baleful Polymorph? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
trapspringer
10-13-06, 03:23 PM What if I was a wizard, of, lets say, thrid level. I'm tired of all this "medium size" and "-6 to every ability for being four thousand years old" and so on. Why not just baleful polymorph yourself into a bat (purchasing the necessary scroll, obviously)

Obviously the whole "you need hands to cast spells" thing is as big a downer as -6 to constitution, but there's got to be a feat out there in 3.5 land to do away with that, right? If not, one could always opt for a monkey. Now all you need is spells with no verbal component. You could even go with Raven, then you only need something for somatic components.

The point is you wind up with a 3+(racial modifier) to your casting stat, tiny or better size, and an additional form of movement (flight pwns). Why would anyone not do this? Special small familiars are even better than the standard ones!

Well, aside from the risk of losing your sentience, but that's a non issue if you do this prior to character creation.

Anyway, I was wondering if anyone had any suggestions for improving the functionality of this plan, or knew of some reason why this would never work. Maybe a 3.5 (not S.S.) way to cast spells in an animal form, or some way to amp up the animalistic AC.
FRRC
10-13-06, 03:42 PM If you're four thousand years old, why havent you discovered a way to become ageless, thus avoiding the penalties?
trapspringer
10-13-06, 06:26 PM Because your level three. For some reason. It's a hypothetical.
FRRC
10-13-06, 07:26 PM Ask your DM for some aid, roleplay wise. Who's to say that all spells have to be said in Draconic or whatever, why can't they just require a set of words said in any language? It makes sense that an elf is going to learn elven versions of spells in elven. Not all Magic Missles are going to be pink.

Since all animals (I'm sticking with Monkey) can communicate, they should, with this roleplay standard, be able to cast spells provided they have everything else.

Failing that, get an item that you can wear after your transformation that gives you the benefits of the Tongues spell, and perhaps an intelligence boost too.
BW0222
10-13-06, 11:09 PM trapspringer,

Well...

First, do you realize that baleful polymorph can be dispelled?

Second, what good are you to anyone as a monkey? You can't order a meal, you'll get kicked out of most inns, you'll be sold on the streets if you wander too far, every dog is going to chase you, etc., etc.

Third, you honestly can't talk for the entire campaign?

Forth, planning on being celebrate for the entire campaign?

Fifth, you can't wear clothing, use weapons, most items, etc. You are limited to the slots of an animal -- one collar, one suit of custom barding, one cloak/vest, etc.

Sixth, your carrying capacity will be barely a few pound. You can't drag folks to safetly, carry more than a few potions, etc. I don't know where you plan on keeping your spellbook.

Seventh, you likely have 0' reach. Trip, grapple, and overruns are just asking to happen. First ogre will just grab you, stuff you in a sack, and toss you over a cliff.
PhaedrusXY
10-14-06, 05:13 PM Umm... you take the new form's mental attributes. How are you going to cast spells with an Int of 2? (Or Cha or Wis that is almost as crappy?)
trapspringer
10-14-06, 10:13 PM Reread the spell description, you only take on the new from's mental attributes of you fail the second save, which is will based.
PhaedrusXY
10-14-06, 11:07 PM Hmm... the listing on the hypertext SRD is different from the one on the official SRD. Here is the one on the hypertext SRD:
Baleful Polymorph
Transmutation
Level: Drd 5, Sor/Wiz 5
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Target: One creature
Duration: Permanent
Saving Throw: Fortitude negates, Will partial; see text
Spell Resistance: Yes

You change the subject into a Small or smaller animal of no more than 1 HD (such as a dog, lizard, monkey, or toad). The subject takes on all the statistics and special abilities of an average member of the new form in place of its own except as follows:

The target retains its own alignment (and personality, within the limits of the new form’s ability scores).
The target retains its own hit points.
The target is treated has having its normal Hit Dice for purpose of adjudicating effects based on HD, such as the sleep spell, though it uses the new form’s base attack bonus, base save bonuses, and all other statistics derived from Hit Dice.
The target also retains the ability to understand (but not to speak) the languages it understood in its original form. It can write in the languages it understands, but only the form is capable of writing in some manner (such as drawing in the dirt with a paw).
With those exceptions, the target’s normal game statistics are replaced by those of the new form. The target loses all the special abilities it has in its normal form, including its class features.

All items worn or carried by the subject fall to the ground at its feet, even if they could be worn or carried by the new form.

If the new form would prove fatal to the creature (for example, if you polymorphed a landbound target into a fish, or an airborne target into a toad), the subject gets a +4 bonus on the save.

If the subject remains in the new form for 24 consecutive hours, it must attempt a Will save. If this save fails, it loses its ability to understand language, as well as all other memories of its previous form, and its Hit Dice and hit points change to match an average creature of its new form. These abilities and statistics return to normal if the effect is later ended.

Incorporeal or gaseous creatures are immune to baleful polymorph, and a creature with the shapechanger subtype (such as a lycanthrope or a doppelganger) can revert to its natural form as a standard action (which ends the spell’s effect). Here is the one on the official SRD page:
Baleful Polymorph
Transmutation
Level: Drd 5, Sor/Wiz 5
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Target: One creature
Duration: Permanent
Saving Throw: Fortitude negates, Will partial; see text
Spell Resistance: Yes
As polymorph, except that you change the subject into a Small or smaller animal of no more than 1 HD. If the new form would prove fatal to the creature the subject gets a +4 bonus on the save.
If the spell succeeds, the subject must also make a Will save. If this second save fails, the creature loses its extraordinary, supernatural, and spell-like abilities, loses its ability to cast spells (if it had the ability), and gains the alignment, special abilities, and Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma scores of its new form in place of its own. It still retains its class and level (or HD), as well as all benefits deriving therefrom (such as base attack bonus, base save bonuses, and hit points). It retains any class features (other than spellcasting) that aren’t extraordinary, supernatural, or spell-like abilities.
Incorporeal or gaseous creatures are immune to being polymorphed, and a creature with the shapechanger subtype can revert to its natural form as a standard action.Was there an errata incorporated into one of these and not the other?

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
trapspringer 10-13-06, 03:23 PM	What if I was a wizard, of, lets say, thrid level. I'm tired of all this "medium size" and "-6 to every ability for being four thousand years old" and so on. Why not just baleful polymorph yourself into a bat (purchasing the necessary scroll, obviously) Obviously the whole "you need hands to cast spells" thing is as big a downer as -6 to constitution, but there's got to be a feat out there in 3.5 land to do away with that, right? If not, one could always opt for a monkey. Now all you need is spells with no verbal component. You could even go with Raven, then you only need something for somatic components. The point is you wind up with a 3+(racial modifier) to your casting stat, tiny or better size, and an additional form of movement (flight pwns). Why would anyone not do this? Special small familiars are even better than the standard ones! Well, aside from the risk of losing your sentience, but that's a non issue if you do this prior to character creation. Anyway, I was wondering if anyone had any suggestions for improving the functionality of this plan, or knew of some reason why this would never work. Maybe a 3.5 (not S.S.) way to cast spells in an animal form, or some way to amp up the animalistic AC.
FRRC 10-13-06, 03:42 PM	If you're four thousand years old, why havent you discovered a way to become ageless, thus avoiding the penalties?
trapspringer 10-13-06, 06:26 PM	Because your level three. For some reason. It's a hypothetical.
FRRC 10-13-06, 07:26 PM	Ask your DM for some aid, roleplay wise. Who's to say that all spells have to be said in Draconic or whatever, why can't they just require a set of words said in any language? It makes sense that an elf is going to learn elven versions of spells in elven. Not all Magic Missles are going to be pink. Since all animals (I'm sticking with Monkey) can communicate, they should, with this roleplay standard, be able to cast spells provided they have everything else. Failing that, get an item that you can wear after your transformation that gives you the benefits of the Tongues spell, and perhaps an intelligence boost too.
BW0222 10-13-06, 11:09 PM	trapspringer, Well... First, do you realize that baleful polymorph can be dispelled? Second, what good are you to anyone as a monkey? You can't order a meal, you'll get kicked out of most inns, you'll be sold on the streets if you wander too far, every dog is going to chase you, etc., etc. Third, you honestly can't talk for the entire campaign? Forth, planning on being celebrate for the entire campaign? Fifth, you can't wear clothing, use weapons, most items, etc. You are limited to the slots of an animal -- one collar, one suit of custom barding, one cloak/vest, etc. Sixth, your carrying capacity will be barely a few pound. You can't drag folks to safetly, carry more than a few potions, etc. I don't know where you plan on keeping your spellbook. Seventh, you likely have 0' reach. Trip, grapple, and overruns are just asking to happen. First ogre will just grab you, stuff you in a sack, and toss you over a cliff.
PhaedrusXY 10-14-06, 05:13 PM	Umm... you take the new form's mental attributes. How are you going to cast spells with an Int of 2? (Or Cha or Wis that is almost as crappy?)
trapspringer 10-14-06, 10:13 PM	Reread the spell description, you only take on the new from's mental attributes of you fail the second save, which is will based.
PhaedrusXY 10-14-06, 11:07 PM	Hmm... the listing on the hypertext SRD is different from the one on the official SRD. Here is the one on the hypertext SRD: Baleful Polymorph Transmutation Level: Drd 5, Sor/Wiz 5 Components: V, S Casting Time: 1 standard action Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels) Target: One creature Duration: Permanent Saving Throw: Fortitude negates, Will partial; see text Spell Resistance: Yes You change the subject into a Small or smaller animal of no more than 1 HD (such as a dog, lizard, monkey, or toad). The subject takes on all the statistics and special abilities of an average member of the new form in place of its own except as follows: The target retains its own alignment (and personality, within the limits of the new form’s ability scores). The target retains its own hit points. The target is treated has having its normal Hit Dice for purpose of adjudicating effects based on HD, such as the sleep spell, though it uses the new form’s base attack bonus, base save bonuses, and all other statistics derived from Hit Dice. The target also retains the ability to understand (but not to speak) the languages it understood in its original form. It can write in the languages it understands, but only the form is capable of writing in some manner (such as drawing in the dirt with a paw). With those exceptions, the target’s normal game statistics are replaced by those of the new form. The target loses all the special abilities it has in its normal form, including its class features. All items worn or carried by the subject fall to the ground at its feet, even if they could be worn or carried by the new form. If the new form would prove fatal to the creature (for example, if you polymorphed a landbound target into a fish, or an airborne target into a toad), the subject gets a +4 bonus on the save. If the subject remains in the new form for 24 consecutive hours, it must attempt a Will save. If this save fails, it loses its ability to understand language, as well as all other memories of its previous form, and its Hit Dice and hit points change to match an average creature of its new form. These abilities and statistics return to normal if the effect is later ended. Incorporeal or gaseous creatures are immune to baleful polymorph, and a creature with the shapechanger subtype (such as a lycanthrope or a doppelganger) can revert to its natural form as a standard action (which ends the spell’s effect). Here is the one on the official SRD page: Baleful Polymorph Transmutation Level: Drd 5, Sor/Wiz 5 Components: V, S Casting Time: 1 standard action Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels) Target: One creature Duration: Permanent Saving Throw: Fortitude negates, Will partial; see text Spell Resistance: Yes As polymorph, except that you change the subject into a Small or smaller animal of no more than 1 HD. If the new form would prove fatal to the creature the subject gets a +4 bonus on the save. If the spell succeeds, the subject must also make a Will save. If this second save fails, the creature loses its extraordinary, supernatural, and spell-like abilities, loses its ability to cast spells (if it had the ability), and gains the alignment, special abilities, and Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma scores of its new form in place of its own. It still retains its class and level (or HD), as well as all benefits deriving therefrom (such as base attack bonus, base save bonuses, and hit points). It retains any class features (other than spellcasting) that aren’t extraordinary, supernatural, or spell-like abilities. Incorporeal or gaseous creatures are immune to being polymorphed, and a creature with the shapechanger subtype can revert to its natural form as a standard action.Was there an errata incorporated into one of these and not the other?