Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Xavorin 03-29-07, 06:06 PM	Currently I'm the DM of my group, but I'm really interested in trying to get someone else to. It's getting to be a heck of a pain. I really like Barbarians, and Rangers too kind of. I was thinking that if I could get someone ele to DM, I could play an orphan who was adopted by a barbarian tribe and trained as a barbarian and ranger, but then orcs or something slaughtered his tribe. So his favored enemy would be orcs or something, and he would have a reason for being an adventurer. The thing is, Barbarians usually use two-handed weapons but Rangers have to choose TWF or Ranged as their combat style. So would a Barbarian/Ranger actually work? Thanks for all help/advice.
High Octane 03-29-07, 06:29 PM	Currently I'm the DM of my group, but I'm really interested in trying to get someone else to. It's getting to be a heck of a pain. I really like Barbarians, and Rangers too kind of. I was thinking that if I could get someone ele to DM, I could play an orphan who was adopted by a barbarian tribe and trained as a barbarian and ranger, but then orcs or something slaughtered his tribe. So his favored enemy would be orcs or something, and he would have a reason for being an adventurer. The thing is, Barbarians usually use two-handed weapons but Rangers have to choose TWF or Ranged as their combat style. So would a Barbarian/Ranger actually work? Thanks for all help/advice. A character with 2 weapons benefits from higher strength just as well as a character with a 2 handed weapon. the bonus is just divided among 2 weapons. A barbarian/ranger is viable. The classes get along fairly well. They have a similar skill list and both give full BAB progression. Both normally end up using light armor. The ranger is less melee oriented than the barbarian, but the bonus feats work pretty well at early levels and you add some good reflex save as well. Question is, do you want to be more barbarian or ranger? If you want to be more barbarian, I would dip 4 levels of ranger just to get the animal companion then take the feat that adds effective character level to your animal companion's abilities (so you benefit from a better animal companion.) The ranger spells wont help as much since the ranger spell list favors ranged attacks more. The fewer levels in ranger, the better for melee he will be since barbarians get an average 2 more hit points a level and their rage and DR increase in effectiveness. Edit: For leveling I would start with ranger 1st level so you get the benefits of all those extra starting skill points (an extra 8). Barbarian second level, and get ranger level 3 (so you get TWF and that way you can get two weapon defense to nullify out some of that lost AC in raging.) then take ranger at 4 and 5, get the animal companion and the better companion feat, then go for everything barbarian after that. At all your ranger levels get tumble. Nothing in the rage description says you cant tumble while raging, and that will allow you to move around in combat quite freely (what with the +10 feet movement bonus from barbarian) 8 ranks worth at level 5 plus a synergy with jump (why not?) equates to a +10 without a dex bonus. If your dex bonus reached +4, you wont have to take any more ranks and will be able to tumble at half speed without fail (barring environmental hazards)
StevenO 03-30-07, 12:10 AM	As long as you can avoid multiclass penalties the Ranger/Barbarian mix fairly well although you should focus on one more than the other. In either case I'd take Ranger first for the extra skill points. A RANGER/barbarian likely want only a few levels of Barbarian for the increased speed and uncanny dodge even if the ability to rage is occasionally useful. The ranger/BARBARIAN on the other hand takes a few levels in ranger for the free feats (they aren't always useful but I'm looking at Tracking and Endurance here), the improvement in Reflex save, the favored enemy bonus can be nice at times, and the combat style; I'd recommend the Archery Style for the ranger/BARB because Rapid Shot can be useful even without its normal prereqs and you'll normally trade on two-handed weapon (the bow) for another.
MrGrass 03-30-07, 01:02 PM	In a monstrous campaign I was a part of I played a Lizardfolk and multiclassed Barbarian/Ranger. It worked really well though sadly we had a bad DM and the game didn't go very far. I chose the Ranged tree and used my regular feats to focus on melee. Once I got a good composite bow I was fine at range. Since we were at low levels I mostly just used the natrual claw/claw/bite since that was a nice consistent stream of damage (3 kobolds in 1 round woo!). I was planning to pick up a Greatsword for things with DR, but the game never got that far. Presuming that you're planning on going with one of the base races, then do what you wish. You can have fun no matter what you do. If you want to get kinky, go for either a dwarf or half-orc and pick the TWF tree. Dwarves treat the Urgosh and half-orcs treat the Orc Double-Axe as a martial weapons, so a barbarian and a ranger could use them. Both could work well with the whole "orcs slaughtered my tribe" thing too.
Onikani 03-30-07, 02:04 PM	A ranger Barbarian with the Bow combat style, makes for a really balanced character - shoot at them while they run at you, Smash them when they get to you. :) Also, you may want to consider scout instead of Ranger, Fast movement + Skirmish damage + Rage = Yummy.
Xavorin 03-30-07, 04:25 PM	A character with 2 weapons benefits from higher strength just as well as a character with a 2 handed weapon. the bonus is just divided among 2 weapons. A barbarian/ranger is viable. The classes get along fairly well. They have a similar skill list and both give full BAB progression. Both normally end up using light armor. The ranger is less melee oriented than the barbarian, but the bonus feats work pretty well at early levels and you add some good reflex save as well. Question is, do you want to be more barbarian or ranger? If you want to be more barbarian, I would dip 4 levels of ranger just to get the animal companion then take the feat that adds effective character level to your animal companion's abilities (so you benefit from a better animal companion.) The ranger spells wont help as much since the ranger spell list favors ranged attacks more. The fewer levels in ranger, the better for melee he will be since barbarians get an average 2 more hit points a level and their rage and DR increase in effectiveness. Edit: For leveling I would start with ranger 1st level so you get the benefits of all those extra starting skill points (an extra 8). Barbarian second level, and get ranger level 3 (so you get TWF and that way you can get two weapon defense to nullify out some of that lost AC in raging.) then take ranger at 4 and 5, get the animal companion and the better companion feat, then go for everything barbarian after that. At all your ranger levels get tumble. Nothing in the rage description says you cant tumble while raging, and that will allow you to move around in combat quite freely (what with the +10 feet movement bonus from barbarian) 8 ranks worth at level 5 plus a synergy with jump (why not?) equates to a +10 without a dex bonus. If your dex bonus reached +4, you wont have to take any more ranks and will be able to tumble at half speed without fail (barring environmental hazards) Wait, so you think I should go TWF? That doesn't really make too much sense to me, since I always thought Barbarians are supposed to be two-handed weapon wielders. I guess it would work, if you dual-wielded something like bastard swords or battleaxes. Just wanted to say that before I read the rest of the posts.
Xavorin 03-30-07, 04:27 PM	A ranger Barbarian with the Bow combat style, makes for a really balanced character - shoot at them while they run at you, Smash them when they get to you. :) Also, you may want to consider scout instead of Ranger, Fast movement + Skirmish damage + Rage = Yummy. We don't have access to the Complete Adventurer currently, but I think one of the players just ordered it. It seems to me, though, that Scouts and Barbarians kind of contradict each other: Scouts I always imagined as ranged Rogues, and Barbarians to me seem like "in-your-face-hack-at-everything-and-kill-it" people.
johnwhitmyre 03-30-07, 04:30 PM	if you want both the 2handed and the TWF carry a bastard sword and use 2 handed and when you need to switch to TWF whip out yer shortsword/dagger/club/ what ever and do TWF you can do both. but if you go with the ranged combat style what a sight, a ranger is firing out a volly of arrows only to rage at the fighter to steps too close to him!
johnwhitmyre 03-30-07, 04:31 PM	i think i have my new character concept!
Xavorin 03-30-07, 04:33 PM	In a monstrous campaign I was a part of I played a Lizardfolk and multiclassed Barbarian/Ranger. It worked really well though sadly we had a bad DM and the game didn't go very far. I chose the Ranged tree and used my regular feats to focus on melee. Once I got a good composite bow I was fine at range. Since we were at low levels I mostly just used the natrual claw/claw/bite since that was a nice consistent stream of damage (3 kobolds in 1 round woo!). I was planning to pick up a Greatsword for things with DR, but the game never got that far. Presuming that you're planning on going with one of the base races, then do what you wish. You can have fun no matter what you do. If you want to get kinky, go for either a dwarf or half-orc and pick the TWF tree. Dwarves treat the Urgosh and half-orcs treat the Orc Double-Axe as a martial weapons, so a barbarian and a ranger could use them. Both could work well with the whole "orcs slaughtered my tribe" thing too. I was either going to roll a d% to see what race I would be or a d12. On a d% 1-50 would be Dwarf, and 51-100 would be Half-Orc, if I didn't want to be a Human. Alternatively a d12 would have been 1-4=Dwarf, 5-8=Half-Orc, 9-12=Human. Dwarves and Half-Orcs make cooler barbarians though. Urgroshes and Orc Double-Axes are cool, but I've always been put off by TWF or double-weapons. You have to use up so many feats it never seems to really pay off. I guess, though, that if I did Ranger 3/Barbarian 2 or Barbarian 3/Ranger 2 I could do the TWF Ranger tree, and get TWF as a free feat. But after that I would have to either take many more levels of Ranger or use up my every-three-level-feats to continue to improve my TWF.
Xavorin 03-30-07, 04:35 PM	i think i have my new character concept! :D That sounds pretty cool. The problem I see is that to elminate the TWF penalties, and increase your 2-handed damage/attack rolls it would require a huge amounts of feats. Rangers get feats depending on their combat style, but other than that both they and Barbarians only get the standard feats.
High Octane 03-30-07, 05:49 PM	What makes you think a 2 handed weapon gets any more total benefit from strength than the 2 weaopon fighting? You get strength bonus on all of your attack rolls. You add that bonus to your swings with your main hand AND off hand. You get full strength bonus on your main hand and half on your off hand, but you are getting 2 times the attacks so you get 1.5x strength bonus overall, which is the same for the 2 handed weapon. The problem is though, you will have to dump feats into that tree in order to continue dual weilding. You will only get the first one for free. Now if you dont want to invest into all that, that also makes sense. If you do go for rapid shot be sure to get a composite longbow. If you want you can have it set to your raging strength bonus instead of your normal one. Or you could even carry 2 bows for this purpose (though once they get magical that may get VERY expensive.
Onikani 03-31-07, 12:35 PM	We don't have access to the Complete Adventurer currently, but I think one of the players just ordered it. It seems to me, though, that Scouts and Barbarians kind of contradict each other: Scouts I always imagined as ranged Rogues, and Barbarians to me seem like "in-your-face-hack-at-everything-and-kill-it" people. Scouts get 8 skill points per level, Good Reflex saves, a bonus to fort saves, medium BAB, Trapfinding, Trackless Step, Evasion and uncanny dodge, +10 to your base speed, and a bonus feat all by 5th level? Skirmish (level 1) gives bonuses to Ac and Damage as long as you move 10' in a round, the weapon doesn't matter, you just need to move. This improves to +2d6 and +2 Ac at 5th level. So what is contradictory about a barbarian with lots of skill points, 2 good saves, 50' movement (with trackless step), and and when he charges he takes no Ac penalty and gets +2d6 extra damage? Is it the evasion he can only use in light armor? Is it the improved uncanny dodge he gets as early as 4th level? All of that by 7th level, bonus feats, and a slew of extra abilities you couldn't get as a barb. You're right, it's completely horrible. (build: Scout, barb, barb, scout, scout, scout, scout) You get the antisynergy that is the tumble skill that can't be used during the 5ish rounds your raging 1x a day. The thought of a barbarian that has to tumble in to avoid AoO when he isn't raging makes my soul hurt as much as when i think of a dwarf with a rapier. :rolleyes: Yeah, those two sets of class abilities don't mesh at all... You're better of straight classing. While you're at it, be a elven barbarian, cause you know, that bonus to dex is huge since it counteracts part of the ac loss when you rage. don't worry about the con penalty, you get d12HP.
Sakaki22 03-31-07, 02:41 PM	I'm hoping it's not too late to chime in, but there's a small pile of variant Combat Styles in Dragon Magazine #326, including one for two handed weapons. I recently made a Barbarian/Ranger using that with a Greataxe, and although I'm let to play with it, it looks like a solid character to me.
bob_the_great 03-31-07, 10:48 PM	i really like rapid shot from ranger 2 with my barbarian. It doesn't help you specialize your primary attack but it is a nice boost to a secondary attack form. you don't want to mess with the 1 1/2 strength bonus and 2:1 power attack that you get fighting two-handed. the only way to compensate for this with two weapons is to always take a full attack and to take feats in order to get iterative attacks. Just go with a two-handed weapon and take rapid shot.
Jenkins007 04-01-07, 01:43 AM	Interestingly enough, I was toying with this concept not to long ago. I don't really have anything of value to say, except that the elven barb/rgr was the way I was going for the dex bonus to offset the ac penalty in rage. This is so weird.
High Octane 04-01-07, 08:54 AM	5 levels in Scout would mean 2 less BAB. And 2d6 skirmish is not as effective as a second attack. I suppose it is good for a charge though. Lets compare 5 levels in ranger and 5 levels in scout Ranger: Base: +2 BAB, +3 Fortitude (subtracting the difference from battle fortitude) Feats: Track, Combat Style (Rapid Shot or Two Weapon Fighting), Endurance Class abilities: Wild Empathy, Animal Companion, 2 Favored Enemies (1 at +4 1 at +2), 1st level spell (If wisdom is 12 or higher) Scout: Base: 10 more skill points (16 if taken first level), +1 initiative Feats: 1 Bonus (see scout list) Class abilities: Trapfinding, Uncanny Dodge, Evasion, +10 ft movement Skirmish (+2d6 +1 AC), Trackless step Whichever of those choices looks more appealing, go for it. Point of note: Barbarians get Uncanny dodge as well, so you would end up with Improved Uncanny Dodge. However Barbarians end up with Imroved uncanny dodge anyway at 5, so there isnt too much point to that ability except that it would stack with your barbarian levels to determine the minimum level of rogue needed to get sneak attack when flanking.
runestar 04-01-07, 10:33 AM	Well, you can start with ranger, than take 1 lv of barb for rage, rely on extra rage to give you more uses, and continuing taking more ranger lvs. If you can afford it, perhaps use a double weapon? This way, you get the benefit of being able to THF or TWF whenever it would be more beneficial to you.:) What makes you think a 2 handed weapon gets any more total benefit from strength than the 2 weaopon fighting? 1) Power attack damage is doubled for THF. For TWFers, light off-hand weapons do not benefit, and you have to contend with a -4 to-hit penalty if you TWF with 2 medium sized weapons. 2) TWFing is more feat/stat intensive(though not applicable for rangers), 2HFing requires just 1 feat(power attack) to work effectively(though there are certainly many more which can improve this). In general, TWFing would be more worth it for builds which are dependent on you hitting multiple times, such as rogues with their delicious sneak attack die.:) Rangers are a close contender as well, with their favoured enemy damage bonus against appropriate foes.:)
Xavorin 04-01-07, 10:36 AM	Scouts get 8 skill points per level, Good Reflex saves, a bonus to fort saves, medium BAB, Trapfinding, Trackless Step, Evasion and uncanny dodge, +10 to your base speed, and a bonus feat all by 5th level? Skirmish (level 1) gives bonuses to Ac and Damage as long as you move 10' in a round, the weapon doesn't matter, you just need to move. This improves to +2d6 and +2 Ac at 5th level. So what is contradictory about a barbarian with lots of skill points, 2 good saves, 50' movement (with trackless step), and and when he charges he takes no Ac penalty and gets +2d6 extra damage? Is it the evasion he can only use in light armor? Is it the improved uncanny dodge he gets as early as 4th level? All of that by 7th level, bonus feats, and a slew of extra abilities you couldn't get as a barb. You're right, it's completely horrible. (build: Scout, barb, barb, scout, scout, scout, scout) You get the antisynergy that is the tumble skill that can't be used during the 5ish rounds your raging 1x a day. The thought of a barbarian that has to tumble in to avoid AoO when he isn't raging makes my soul hurt as much as when i think of a dwarf with a rapier. :rolleyes: Yeah, those two sets of class abilities don't mesh at all... You're better of straight classing. While you're at it, be a elven barbarian, cause you know, that bonus to dex is huge since it counteracts part of the ac loss when you rage. don't worry about the con penalty, you get d12HP. Yeah, I just read the entry for Scouts in the CA, and :eek: they're cool. Fast movement is so useful, and especially when added to a Barbarian's. Imagine multiclassing even further: To Monk, and get their fast movement too!
Xavorin 04-01-07, 10:38 AM	I'm hoping it's not too late to chime in, but there's a small pile of variant Combat Styles in Dragon Magazine #326, including one for two handed weapons. I recently made a Barbarian/Ranger using that with a Greataxe, and although I'm let to play with it, it looks like a solid character to me. Of course it's not too late! However, I'm not subscribed to Dragon Magazine:(.
Xavorin 04-01-07, 10:39 AM	i really like rapid shot from ranger 2 with my barbarian. It doesn't help you specialize your primary attack but it is a nice boost to a secondary attack form. you don't want to mess with the 1 1/2 strength bonus and 2:1 power attack that you get fighting two-handed. the only way to compensate for this with two weapons is to always take a full attack and to take feats in order to get iterative attacks. Just go with a two-handed weapon and take rapid shot. That's how I was going to go originally.
Xavorin 04-01-07, 10:41 AM	5 levels in Scout would mean 2 less BAB. And 2d6 skirmish is not as effective as a second attack. I suppose it is good for a charge though. Lets compare 5 levels in ranger and 5 levels in scout Ranger: Base: +2 BAB, +3 Fortitude (subtracting the difference from battle fortitude) Feats: Track, Combat Style (Rapid Shot or Two Weapon Fighting), Endurance Class abilities: Wild Empathy, Animal Companion, 2 Favored Enemies (1 at +4 1 at +2), 1st level spell (If wisdom is 12 or higher) Scout: Base: 10 more skill points (16 if taken first level), +1 initiative Feats: 1 Bonus (see scout list) Class abilities: Trapfinding, Uncanny Dodge, Evasion, +10 ft movement Skirmish (+2d6 +1 AC), Trackless step Whichever of those choices looks more appealing, go for it. Point of note: Barbarians get Uncanny dodge as well, so you would end up with Improved Uncanny Dodge. However Barbarians end up with Imroved uncanny dodge anyway at 5, so there isnt too much point to that ability except that it would stack with your barbarian levels to determine the minimum level of rogue needed to get sneak attack when flanking. I was figuring that if I went Ranger, I would probably end up with a 2-hander and a longbow with Rapid Shot. If I went Scout, I would get feats like Spring Attack and Leap Attack so I get the Skirmish bonus. (At least, from memory I think those feats let you move. I forget.)
Onikani 04-01-07, 11:54 AM	a human scout/barby can have dodge, mobility, spring attack and power attack by 4th level. :) Sring attack + skirmish = too much fun.
danielinthewolvesden 04-01-07, 01:57 PM	TWF actually works pretty well here. Sure, it is not super optimized, but with a blunt wpn in one hand and a sl;ashing in the other you will do VERY well against the critters you have a Favoured Enemy bonus against. Besides- you do not always have to be optimized. The big dilemma here is BBn or Ranger for level 1. With Ranger you get 8 more Skill Points, with Bbn you get 12 instead of 8 starting HP. Beleive it or not, I would be tempted to go BBn1/ Ranger 11 then a PrC.
High Octane 04-01-07, 04:36 PM	The big trouble with spring attacking is you provoke an attack of oppurtunity going in and out, and you only get 1 attack. So they end up getting 2 attacks on you (From the AoO and their move and strike.) while you only get 1.
Tonio 04-01-07, 04:39 PM	The big trouble with spring attacking is you provoke an attack of oppurtunity going in and out, and you only get 1 attack. So they end up getting 2 attacks on you (From the AoO and their move and strike.) while you only get 1. Well, you don't generate AoO from your target, only from others who might be near. I'm sure in most situations you can find a way to avoid those, too.
Xavorin 04-04-07, 03:32 PM	TWF actually works pretty well here. Sure, it is not super optimized, but with a blunt wpn in one hand and a sl;ashing in the other you will do VERY well against the critters you have a Favoured Enemy bonus against. Besides- you do not always have to be optimized. The big dilemma here is BBn or Ranger for level 1. With Ranger you get 8 more Skill Points, with Bbn you get 12 instead of 8 starting HP. Beleive it or not, I would be tempted to go BBn1/ Ranger 11 then a PrC. I deffinitely see your point about TWF. The problem with the Barbarian 1/Ranger 11 is that A.) Even if someone else DMed, we'd never get to 12th level. And B.) I'm not sure anyone else is willing to DM. I did, though, propose an idea for a new campaign that would allow me to play a Barbarian/Ranger or a Barbarian/Scout. I'm still waiting for feedback, though.
Onikani 04-04-07, 05:30 PM	The big trouble with spring attacking is you provoke an attack of oppurtunity going in and out, and you only get 1 attack. So they end up getting 2 attacks on you (From the AoO and their move and strike.) while you only get 1. Spring Attack [General] Prerequisites Dex 13, Dodge, Mobility, base attack bonus +4. Benefit When using the attack action with a melee weapon, you can move both before and after the attack, provided that your total distance moved is not greater than your speed. Moving in this way does not provoke an attack of opportunity from the defender you attack, though it might provoke attacks of opportunity from other creatures, if appropriate. You can’t use this feat if you are wearing heavy armor. um, you don't provoke AoO from the dude you are spring attacking into... and any AoO you incur from other dudes is also likely at a +5Ac.
High Octane 04-05-07, 01:46 AM	um, you don't provoke AoO from the dude you are spring attacking into... and any AoO you incur from other dudes is also likely at a +5Ac. I did not know that about spring attack. As for the other AoOs, they are at +4 unless you want to declare your dodge on them instead of your target. You could also tumble during this movement. Theres also a feat that allows you to attack with both weapons as a standard action, so you COULD in theory combine that with the TWF feat and you get both attacks to his one. Or you could be a Half-Ogre with a spiked chain.
Zumarai 04-05-07, 06:35 AM	One of my players has a: Half-Orc Barbarian 2/Ranger 10 and he kicks massive amounts of booty: -Two-weapon Fighting -Improved Two-Weapon Fighting -Exotic Weapon Proficiency (bastard sword) -Oversized Two-Weapon Fighting -Dual Strike -Two-Weapon Pounce -Two-Weapon Rend
Xavorin 04-05-07, 02:57 PM	I did not know that about spring attack. As for the other AoOs, they are at +4 unless you want to declare your dodge on them instead of your target. You could also tumble during this movement. Theres also a feat that allows you to attack with both weapons as a standard action, so you COULD in theory combine that with the TWF feat and you get both attacks to his one. Or you could be a Half-Ogre with a spiked chain. :D
DreadArchon 04-05-07, 06:12 PM	You could use the Simple Variant Ranger from Unearthed Arcana for even more movement speed than usual.
Xavorin 04-09-07, 04:25 PM	You know, it took me til now to realize that I posted this on the wrong forum...
Divisionbyzer0 02-21-08, 08:04 PM	A character with 2 weapons benefits from higher strength just as well as a character with a 2 handed weapon. the bonus is just divided among 2 weapons. A barbarian/ranger is viable. The classes get along fairly well. They have a similar skill list and both give full BAB progression. Both normally end up using light armor. The ranger is less melee oriented than the barbarian, but the bonus feats work pretty well at early levels and you add some good reflex save as well. Question is, do you want to be more barbarian or ranger? If you want to be more barbarian, I would dip 4 levels of ranger just to get the animal companion then take the feat that adds effective character level to your animal companion's abilities (so you benefit from a better animal companion.) The ranger spells wont help as much since the ranger spell list favors ranged attacks more. The fewer levels in ranger, the better for melee he will be since barbarians get an average 2 more hit points a level and their rage and DR increase in effectiveness. Edit: For leveling I would start with ranger 1st level so you get the benefits of all those extra starting skill points (an extra 8). Barbarian second level, and get ranger level 3 (so you get TWF and that way you can get two weapon defense to nullify out some of that lost AC in raging.) then take ranger at 4 and 5, get the animal companion and the better companion feat, then go for everything barbarian after that. At all your ranger levels get tumble. Nothing in the rage description says you cant tumble while raging, and that will allow you to move around in combat quite freely (what with the +10 feet movement bonus from barbarian) 8 ranks worth at level 5 plus a synergy with jump (why not?) equates to a +10 without a dex bonus. If your dex bonus reached +4, you wont have to take any more ranks and will be able to tumble at half speed without fail (barring environmental hazards) How about the part where it says you can't use any dexterity based skills except for ride, escape artist, and balanced while raging? Have they errated this? I remember reading somewhere they could hide and move silent while raging, I think on the WoTC coast website. It'd be nice if they could also tumble while raging. Also if only getting 4 levels of Ranger I'd drop the companion and get distracting attack (I think from PHB II). After you hit 'em other attacks are considered as flanking, and since you have a high dex on the average you'll probably be going before others. If you want a companion later pick up the wild cohort feat. It will be better than the ranger's anyhow since it uses your entire ECL not just your ranger's for determining the stats.
Sinfire Titan 02-21-08, 09:03 PM	I was either going to roll a d% to see what race I would be or a d12. On a d% 1-50 would be Dwarf, and 51-100 would be Half-Orc, if I didn't want to be a Human. Alternatively a d12 would have been 1-4=Dwarf, 5-8=Half-Orc, 9-12=Human. Dwarves and Half-Orcs make cooler barbarians though. Urgroshes and Orc Double-Axes are cool, but I've always been put off by TWF or double-weapons. You have to use up so many feats it never seems to really pay off. I guess, though, that if I did Ranger 3/Barbarian 2 or Barbarian 3/Ranger 2 I could do the TWF Ranger tree, and get TWF as a free feat. But after that I would have to either take many more levels of Ranger or use up my every-three-level-feats to continue to improve my TWF. If it is set in Eberron, then Wild Elf. Pick up EWP with a Double Scimitar and take the feat from PGtE that treats both sides of the weapon as Two-Handed for damage, but not TWFing.
Divisionbyzer0 02-22-08, 01:44 AM	You have to use up so many feats it never seems to really pay off. I guess, though, that if I did Ranger 3/Barbarian 2 or Barbarian 3/Ranger 2 I could do the TWF Ranger tree, and get TWF as a free feat. But after that I would have to either take many more levels of Ranger or use up my every-three-level-feats to continue to improve my TWF. Why? You only have to take two feats really. Two feats for an extra attack any time you can use your full attack is pretty good by itself. Ok you get the penalties -2 / -2 but your rage offsets it and you'll probably have a high STR anyhow. The improved and greater feats give extra attacks with the offhand but at fairly high penalty so a lot of times they won't hit anyhow. Two weapon rend is a better choice than improved or greater... extra d6 + 1.5*(STR mod) if you hit with your primary and second weapon. TWF and endurance are good free feats. Some decent feats depend on endurance (die hard, steadfast determination), so only taking a few levels in ranger isn't bad even if you never get up to the higher bonus TWF feats that the ranger gets.
wizarddog 02-22-08, 01:53 AM	Yeah, I just read the entry for Scouts in the CA, and :eek: they're cool. Fast movement is so useful, and especially when added to a Barbarian's. Imagine multiclassing even further: To Monk, and get their fast movement too! Ain't gonna happen while your alignment is chaotic less you want to lose your rage and not advance anymore in Barbarian. :weep:
Divisionbyzer0 02-22-08, 04:35 AM	Start as a monk next time. They retain their powers on changing alignment. Scouts are nice. I've thought of adding some to my Barbarian / Ranger. Originally Posted by Xavorin View Post I was either going to roll a d% to see what race I would be or a d12. On a d% 1-50 would be Dwarf, and 51-100 would be Half-Orc, if I didn't want to be a Human. Alternatively a d12 would have been 1-4=Dwarf, 5-8=Half-Orc, 9-12=Human. Dwarves and Half-Orcs make cooler barbarians though. Full Orc and get the headlong rush feat (Races of Faerun) for double damage on charge attacks (only orcs can take the feat... actually half-orcs too) with two weapon pounce, or lion totem for a full pounce if it's available. Anything that hits will do double damage. Combine it with rend, rage, high str, buffs, and magical items. Booyahkasha! Minced meat.