Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Zankue 04-10-07, 06:23 PM	Hey guys, I'm currently playing a Bard in a campaign and quite like it. A fellow "player" said that if I put a thread up talking about how cool bards were that ppl would get Pis*ed at me for saying so. He says that they're the worst class and horrible for everything (of course, he doesn't know the word role play) . I hope that this thread turns out to prove him wrong... but say what ever you think about Bards and tell me if you like them or not. Thanks !!!! :)
Dazzer 04-10-07, 06:32 PM	Bards are cool. Firstoff they are the only base class proficient in whips (advantage!) Therefore, with no effort on their part, the are the only class that can be Indianna Jones, at no penalty, without having the spend feats on it. A bard's strength is social situations, and making everyone else happy =D He does that, and does it very well. Sure, in combat he suc...wait..he has a whip...he can trip from 15ft away, no AoP, nothing....he can disarm...he gets a BONUS! So he isn't going to go into melee like the fighter and start bashing things (he could, but he'd have to be geared towards doing that). But he is going to take the enemies legs and weapons away while the fighter bashes things! (I like disarming wands, and spell components best!) Plus, he knows EVERYTHING, how can that be bad? Bards = Cool
Pandaemoni 04-10-07, 06:34 PM	Bards are great. They are not the combat powerhouses that some players prefer, but they make decent supplemental muscle when needed. They are also great as dedicated party buffers. With the right builds (Sublime Chord), they can even be pretty good spellcasters. Obviously, their greatest strength is in social skills (both magical and mundane). In that area, they're second to none.
Fireclave 04-10-07, 06:34 PM	Bards are great. They get a little bit of everything, excell in social situations, make better sages than wizards, and make the best spys of all the core classes. I espeicially like kobold bards :D
Fatalis_902 04-10-07, 06:38 PM	Bards RULE!!! I personally wouldn't play one, but that's just because I don't like the flavor of going into dungeons and singing. They are capable of doing whatever they want in a party, are the ultimate fifth wheel, and can buff like nobody's business. Even if they can't out-fight the fighter, out-spell the wizard, out-sneak the rogue, or out-heal the cleric, they are capable of standing in a little bit for each. Need some extra buffing? Bardic music. Need someone else out front to keep the baddies away from the wizard? Bards are proficient with the long sword and whip, and can wear light armor. Need some extra healing? Bards can cast cure spells. Some, anyway. Need someone to scout ahead for the ranger or rogue? Bard's on it. Need a party face for skillful or magical manipulation? Look no further than a bard. They are Jacks-of-all-trades and masters of none, but that doesn't mean they are a bad class. For mechanically under-par, we look to fighters. For mechanically over-par, we look to druids, clerics, or wizards. Especially druids. Or a truly prepared wizard. Bards are so cool. P.S. Your friend is a moron. P.P.S. Your friend should be hit. P.P.S.S. With the pointy corner of the Player's Handbook.
Prator_the_Legendary 04-10-07, 06:46 PM	Bards are more likely to survive a solo adventure than anyone else, thanks to their skill and ability diversity. CoDzillas and wizards don't really get their uber-powers until mid-to-high levels.
BlackWeasel 04-10-07, 06:59 PM	I love bards, they're so versatile
StoneStokes 04-10-07, 07:10 PM	My next 1st-level character is going to be a bard.
Fatalis_902 04-10-07, 07:17 PM	Bards are more likely to survive a solo adventure than anyone else, thanks to their skill and ability diversity. CoDzillas and wizards don't really get their uber-powers until mid-to-high levels. Granted, but once they do, there is no turning back.
Onikani 04-10-07, 07:25 PM	Bards Buff!!!!! Bardic music is the awesome! With the right feats (there's one in ebberon) and the right spells (check your complete adventurer)you can have a 3rd level bard give +3 to hits, damage, and saves to the whole party. Add a masterwork instrument, and it can go higher.... When the cleric goes down, the bard can heal him up. With the almighty whip, he bard can trip and disarm and back the fighter. Hide, sneak, disble device? When the rogue can't do it, maybe the bard can. Need a distraction? call the bard... You may be second best at everything but that's only because you can do everything. Bards kick butt, more than any other class they can shine from the sidelines...
darkneolink 04-10-07, 07:28 PM	besides everybody loves the bard fighter oriented: thanks for the morale bonus Skill oriented: thanks for the morale bonus arcane oriented: thanks for the suport arcane spells divine oriented: thanks for the support divine spells everyone: thanks for not dumping charisma... you too sorcerer Bard: yay they love me n_n
Daydreamer 04-10-07, 07:42 PM	Bards are fun in roleplayin games. and mechanically useful in games that use roleplaying encounters.
Thubby 04-10-07, 08:49 PM	bards are amazing outside of combat. in the average fight their power is directly proportionate to the party's size and combat class concentration. alone, a bard doesnt realy fight, they just subvert, trick, or otherwise defuse a situation (so people say they suck)
Toran_A_Sunder 04-10-07, 09:04 PM	Bards are well rounded and, as stated so many times, can do just enough of everything that they are useful in practically every situation. Not to mention they're smooth with the ladies :D Yeah, you're friend is a moron. I made a bard who was as good with the bow as the ranger we didnt have, could crit with his scimitar and deal damage almost on par with the fighter type in the group. I casted spells that helped us just as much as the wizard type, and healed along side the cleric. Because of me, the spellcasters dn't toally depleate their resources and become useless in a day, in case there were more encounters than expected. Plus, look at the Seeker of the Song PrC. a must have PrC for bards everywhere. Awesome elemental power. Yeah bards rock the casbah. They may not be as good at everything as the other classes in their speciality, but they are good enough to make a difference in the situation. And with enough wands, they can easily replace the wiz/sorc or cler/druid. Go bards. My favorite class.
Marendithas_the_Necro 04-10-07, 09:28 PM	Bards Buff!!!!! Bardic music is the awesome! With the right feats (there's one in ebberon) and the right spells (check your complete adventurer)you can have a 3rd level bard give +3 to hits, damage, and saves to the whole party. Add a masterwork instrument, and it can go higher.... When the cleric goes down, the bard can heal him up. With the almighty whip, he bard can trip and disarm and back the fighter. Hide, sneak, disble device? When the rogue can't do it, maybe the bard can. Need a distraction? call the bard... You may be second best at everything but that's only because you can do everything. Bards kick butt, more than any other class they can shine from the sidelines... You are right, I have a bard who do the same thing he rocks. He is just different, he is a half-orc savage bard 2 Barbarian 1 (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#bardVariantS avageBard) That's a powerful build! But for the bard, I love to play half-elf bard or gnome bard they are so cool, when you rp with everyone that is so fun!
glacialcat 04-10-07, 09:38 PM	First off, everyone knows about a bard's great strength in social situations. They have great social skills and rely on Charisma for casting which boosts them up, along with spells like Glibness which can wtfpwn in social situations. But there are ways for bards to be great in combat too. The ability to buff party members becomes more important as the party gains more melee combatants. With proper splatbook access, a bard can give huuuuge buffs to melee attack and damage. Inspirational Boost (Spell Compendium) is a spell which will give Inspire Courage, as well as the use of a masterwork mandolin (Complete Adventurer). If you're playing in Eberron, Song of the Heart can give you another +1 boost. By Lv.20 you could be giving a +7 boost to melee attack rolls and damage, which can potentially double the damage of the fighter or barbarian by making their last two iterative attacks hit when they otherwise would've missed. This isn't even taking into account the great spellcasting ability they can have with the Sublime Cord (Complete Arcane) prestige class, and the fact they can use fascinate or suggestion to end combat before it starts. Oh, and if you have access to Forstburn you can pick up Snowflake Wardance, allowing you to add your Charisma to attacks with a slashing weapon. Add this to something like Arcane Strike from Complete Warrior, and not only is the bard able to charm the ladies and guys in social situations, and buff the fighters, he can take to battle in his own right. Lets not forget the Bard's limited healing capability. Its not the best, but its better than a rogue or wizard can do. And Bards get probably the strongest skill in the game, Use Magic Device, on their class list. So the bard can handle the out of combat healing with wands of cure light wounds (which he doesn't even need to make a check for since its on his class list) letting the Cleric save his spells for buffs. And he can use Use Magic Device to access things like Heal or Polymorph. Bards are probably one of the most balanced classes in the game, along with things like the Rogue and Psychic Warrior.
Arturius1 04-10-07, 09:45 PM	Bards are great to have around. Take the bard variant in the PHB2, the Jack of all Trades feat, and they can do everything pretty damn well. Your fellow player should sit down, shut up, and let the bard do his thing. Then, when you're done, tell him "You're welcome."
Zankue 04-10-07, 11:47 PM	Man, thanks guys... this will show that player, He was positive that I would get flamed for something like this thread. Any more people want to admire Bards? lol
Crash169 04-11-07, 12:38 AM	Awesome indeed. Anyone ever read the "Wheel of time" books by Robert Jordan? It's not like you need amazing writing to make bards cool, but he sure as heck makes you want to play one!
Krusk 04-11-07, 02:01 AM	bards are in my top five favorite classes to play. knight fighter wizard bard ninja ... only one of those is one of the "powerful" classes.
Meems 04-11-07, 04:20 AM	Finally! Other people who love bards. Of course, my bard is now a bard/rogue... mostly because I like playing rogues as well and our party didn't have one.
Nova Fujit 04-11-07, 09:55 AM	Bards are one of the best charactor choices for a small group that needs several roles that can't be filled due to lack of players =) I like Bards
Dan Hemmens 04-11-07, 10:00 AM	Of course Bards are also the characters most easily capable of exploiting the horribly badly worded Diplomacy rules. Anything that doesn't attack immediately becomes your fanatical follower by around about level ten.
Nova Fujit 04-11-07, 10:31 AM	Of course Bards are also the characters most easily capable of exploiting the horribly badly worded Diplomacy rules. Anything that doesn't attack immediately becomes your fanatical follower by around about level ten. isn't that kind of the benifit of being a likeable guy?
StoneStokes 04-11-07, 12:56 PM	Of course Bards are also the characters most easily capable of exploiting the horribly badly worded Diplomacy rules. Anything that doesn't attack immediately becomes your fanatical follower by around about level ten. I suggest you try the variant rules for Diplomacy found on the Giant in the Playground site. You might find them preferable. But this has nothing to do with why I like bards. I'm sure most other people who have posted here like bards for reasons other than "I can exploit a poorly worded rule pertaining to one skill."
Drag0nUL 04-11-07, 02:54 PM	First, I wouldn't play a bard for anything in the world...I simply can't play a character without strong combat abilities(including strong combat spells). Secondly, I think bards are a great class to have in a party. I have a few friends who like playing bards and I have seen their power asa a support character. They excel at diplomatic interaction(about the single class that can safely IMHO max diplomacy, bluff and sense motive) and in combat they constitute the surprise element. Nobody will target the bard before the primary spellcasters(like wizard, sorcerer, druid or cleric) and they can pull off some nice tricks. The DM's face, after trying for half of the battle to take down the blasting sorc, when the bard takes out his wand of fireball...PRICELESS.
Vaalingrade Ashland 04-11-07, 03:02 PM	If properly play and built, a bard can be one of the most powerful classes in the game. Why? Because the bard is the only control class in Core. With an array of buffs, debuffs, summons, healing and illusions, the bard is capable of deciding when, if and how a battle happens far more than any other class. Hells, they even get the whip, the greatest control weapon in the game (15' trips are stupid powerful against humanoid foes)
Drag0nUL 04-11-07, 03:50 PM	Honestly, I do not think a bard is a better battlefield controller than a well played controller wizard.
LeannaMoonbody 04-11-07, 03:58 PM	Bards are awesome. My favorite character. Though she cannot fight very well, she is great at buffing her team. She is one of the deadliest people on the team. With her buffs and use of spells, she can do a lot of damage.
darkneolink 04-11-07, 07:25 PM	Besides Cha 15 = +2 5 ranks in bluff/sense motive/knowledge(nobility and royalty)= +2 each 5 ranks in diplomaciy diplomacy total = 1d20+13 can you say: YAY BARD? n_n
Hack and Smasher 04-15-07, 04:39 PM	Currently bards are crap, sad but ture they're only real abilty is social skills (hooray god awful social skills mechanics so you can be done with that whole roleplay thing), and bardic music which is so-so at best, and buffing which lets face it real casters do better. Didn't use to be back in the olden day bards used to be scary back in 1st and pretty good in second thanks to its fast advancement. Nowadays bard is a joke turly a master of social skills simply because it can't do anything well.
Radiun 04-15-07, 05:25 PM	Link from Legend of Zelda was a bard** IMO, so there's a plus ;) :P (He played instruments to gain magical effects, he cast a few spells on his own here and there, he's a decent combatant that wore no armour, he made people happy, and most importantly, he got the princess [and the Milk Maid... and the Fairy Girl... and the Zora princess... I'm probably forgetting a lot] ;) )
Edymnion 04-15-07, 05:58 PM	Granted, but once they do, there is no turning back.Until they go up against the barbarian with damage reduction, rage, and an Anti-Magic Field adamantine greataxe. Whoops, the high and mighty mage just turned into a 20th level commoner! Run away! :D
Sphyre 04-15-07, 06:10 PM	It's easy to say bards are great for social situations. But that's the only niche they get. While this is a role playing game where the game rewards specialization, the bard has a hidden strength. He can do pretty much everything. Maybe not as well as others, but if you play a bard and choose to have him attempt everything he can do he's stealing a lot more spot light than any other character. You're getting to play more. The bard has some specialization, but for the most part, it's less than others. But by the same token, the bard has less weaknesses, being that he's a jack of all trades, so he's less likely to be caught with his pants down. If you like to specialize and be the best "fighter" or best "mage" or best "healer" - then yes, the bard will suck in your eyes. If you like to play D&D and not be so much of a specialist, but an actual character, the Bard shines.
Stardust 04-15-07, 11:40 PM	The first sub-boss in my current campaign was a half-elven bard, but not to be underestimated. - First of all he convinced the characters that the band of hobgoblin raiders that he was leading (obviously unknown to PCs) were in a completely different location to the actual one. - Then he charmed the guard captain of the town the PCs were staying in and convinced him that the PCs were orchestrating the trouble in the area, having them thrown in jail. - Then he snuck into the jail in order to threaten the PCs, blinding one of them who became hostile. - Then when the PCs tracked him back to his base of operations, he managed to shatter the fighter's fullblade. - Then hit the sorcerer with two successful silence spells during the drawn-out confrontation, effectively making him useless - Finally, once subdued by the party and imprisoned, he nearly managed to gain the alleigance of the same sorcerer he'd so thoroughly annoyed, building considerable mutual respect and also demonstrating that he could very easily escape from the manacles in the prison cell when the moment was right. Ultimately, when the party sorcerer decided not to take up his bait after all, the bard was actually murdered by his assassin superior (setting up the next sub-boss to deal with), the party all had this to say: 'Awww! How come he got killed? We liked him!' Only a bard can be that much of a comprehensive pain in the ass and still have everybody love him, surely!
kelvinaw273 04-16-07, 03:37 AM	Bards are not designed to be better at anything in the game, save social situations, than any other character. But they are the ultimate generalists, able to do a little of everything else. Having a bard cannot replace specialists (unless you have a really small party) but they can stop a gap for a few rounds. Bards are the best 5th character to have in a standard four-character party, they are the best character to run solo for, and they are the best enhancement a large party can have.
daggeroflath 04-16-07, 09:34 AM	Bards are absolutely Awesome. Especially if you use complete adventurer, but they're cool just as a base class.
Psychoticpsymon 04-16-07, 05:07 PM	Lmao, I have NEVER seen so much love for bards! My only real experience with bards is stuff written in the books.
thaylok 04-16-07, 05:24 PM	It is difficult to state something new in a crowd of obviously well educated and classy players as these. I've been playing Bards since early 2nd edition days when I began. I personally enjoy the Dragonsong Lyricist from the Dragonomicon. The Song of Strength will make any combat-munch... err Fighter happy. Rogues wish they could cast the Bards spells, Wizards would like a little more armour, Clerics appreciate not having to be the solo healer (especially if they are very offensively oriented), Rangers appreciate some in-town help, the list goes on and on. Everyone likes the extra spells/wands/scroll users, when they are out of range of the "primary" spell casters aid. And not every bard MUST sing in the dungeons. Most of mine work as orators, story tellers, reciting epic tales and ballads. Need these be sung? Not at all. In fact the Dwarven Chanter PrC that was updated from 2nd ed leans to an awesome class. more than 1/2 of my characters are Bards (or Psions) or both. I'm ecstatic that WOTC if finally releasing more stuff for this underutilized powerhouse. That, IMHO, is the real reason the class is looked down upon, the singing and lack of equipment (spells, magic items[not instruments], specifically targeted for bards) stereotypes.
AffableDoomwalker 04-16-07, 05:30 PM	Death to the spoony ones. Just kidding. Bards are great. 'Specially Half-Orc bards.
HalflingBard 04-16-07, 05:39 PM	My dm used to shortchange my party out and never give us gold. But recently my party (which has shrunk to two:weep: ) came across a temple with 24,000 gold in it. WOW . Well anyways my halfling bard hired 4 other halflings who are now his personal gaurd, They each ride on riding dog have a chain shirt a light crossbow 50 bolts and a breastplate and a bayonet (complete scoundrel) which functions as a spear. I love to roleplay which is why I always choose bard.
Sterling 04-17-07, 09:21 AM	Bards make fantastic spies. :D
Senevri 04-17-07, 09:26 AM	Pure bards are awesome, but not flashy. Core only, Bards already get illusion/enchantment line, and stuff like Heroism & Greater Heroism. A bard going in can first Fascinate the opponents, which gives buff time for the rest of the group, then he can suggest they drop their weapons and kick them away. Now cover your eyes, and you'll get a big surprise....
daggeroflath 04-17-07, 01:12 PM	I thought bards were terrible... until I played one. Now I really quite like them. Though they're a class I can never stand to play straight up 1-20 without multiclassing or PrC.
trapspringer 04-17-07, 01:17 PM	No one on these boards will diss on the core classes too much. They generally all fill a role and the power curve for each differs enough that you can at least say, "Well, at level X - X+4 they're the best." The only real exception seems to be monk. There is something of a hate-group floating around, I think. At any rate, bards can lay the smack-down with the feat "Arcane Disciple." Add any domain of your choosing given some planning. I'd like some good variants that let me trade-off bardic music, though. Otherwise I'm totally cool with bards.
Vaalingrade Ashland 04-17-07, 01:22 PM	Honestly, I do not think a bard is a better battlefield controller than a well played controller wizard. Honestly, the wizard doesn't have use a minor version of Mass Hold monster with a save DC of 30+ at level 1. In fact, fascinate is BETTER than the crappy 3.5 version of hold, because they don't get to save out ever bloody round.
Norhg 04-17-07, 05:08 PM	1. Bard 2. ??? 3. Profit Bards >> Others. Bards + Others >>>>>>>>> Others Bards =/= Gimp Bards, divine incarnations? Yes.
Belljar 04-18-07, 10:12 AM	Wow, you guys have convinced me to play a Bard in my upcoming campaign. :) That says it all. Bards are great.
Bringer of autumn 04-18-07, 10:33 AM	Yeah, Bards are one of the most powerful base classes ever, and enough evidence has been provided to attest to that. For me when I play Bards, I always play stealthy psychological warfare specialists. Meaning, I focus the bard's power of mind control to the fullest. Mine never use instruments, but are anarchic philosophers that dispise authoritarian ideas and societies.
Qwicksilver 04-18-07, 11:38 AM	Bards are one of those core classes that have a sort of special charm for some people. They're not obviously powerful, but they have little gaming quirks and strengths that appeal partially because they're not for straight power. This is the exact same reason someone will say they hate bards, because to them they seem weak, and all those people saying they aren't Pi$$ him/her off. Bards are a bit like a middle class between classes that are obviously overpowered, and the few classes that are obviously underpowered. That isn't to say that they are always balanced all the time. besides everybody loves the bard fighter oriented: thanks for the morale bonus Skill oriented: thanks for the morale bonus arcane oriented: thanks for the suport arcane spells divine oriented: thanks for the support divine spells everyone: thanks for not dumping charisma... you too sorcerer Bard: yay they love me n_n Yeah, that's the what characters in the game are supposed to be like on average. I can honestly say that, as a bard, i have never gotten any gratitude from almost any PLAYERS of that class. Almost any class, but ESPECIALLY the melee fighter classes. Oh, and also: name for me the class most likely to be taken up by Tolkein? Eh?
CaoSlayer 04-18-07, 11:56 AM	Oh, and also: name for me the class most likely to be taken up by Tolkein? Eh? Specialist.
Qwicksilver 04-18-07, 11:57 AM	Well I was gonna say either bard or druid...
Radijs 04-18-07, 12:20 PM	Well bards get loads of grattitude in my campaign. Every combat he starts with his bardic music and WHAMMO! a +4 on attack & damage rolls when he combines it with that spell. He's damn good and no doubt about it!
MindLich 04-18-07, 12:30 PM	Damn. This thread got me into bards, I thought they were cool before but didn't notice HOW COOL they were. In my next campaign, I'll make a Bard BBEG, wow that's going to be so fun. Great thread man, your friend is totally wrong. Bards are very good and I love the RPing opportunities.
Zankue 04-19-07, 11:39 PM	:bump: let's get a few more :D
kelvinaw273 04-20-07, 01:34 AM	Well I think I'll try my hand as a Bard ... concept is a Strolling Player ...
daggeroflath 04-20-07, 02:57 AM	concept is a Strolling Player ... Sitting down player... Sliding under the table player...
TokTok 04-20-07, 08:17 AM	Sitting down player... Sliding under the table player... Hiding under the blankets player...Dancing on the chair player...Running through the street player...
DreadArchon 04-20-07, 02:05 PM	I :inlove: Bards, especially with all the awesome stuff they put out for them in... well, in like every book. I'm ecstatic that WOTC if finally releasing more stuff for this underutilized powerhouse. That, IMHO, is the real reason the class is looked down upon, the singing and lack of equipment (spells, magic items[not instruments], specifically targeted for bards) stereotypes. WotC has been releasing awesome stuff for Bards for a while. From the variants in UA to the Melodic Casting feat in Complete Mage (substitute Perform for Concentration, use magic while performing!), Bards get all sorts of awesome rules love. Edit: Also, dip a single level of Marshal and you suddenly give the party a large bonus to something else of your choice, too. "Hey guys, who wants my large Cha bonus added to their Initiative? ... What, nobody? How about Strength checks? Or Spell Penetration rolls? Or damage while flanking? Take your pick..."
Psychoticpsymon 04-20-07, 06:26 PM	52% of WotC forum signatures tell you to copy them to your own under certain circumstances. Copy this to your signature if yours doesn't. Lols.
Mattarias 04-21-07, 01:20 AM	:D Yeah, bards are indeed awesomeness. I've played one (my first character!) through level 3 for now, though i was thinking of going warmage for a bit. Blowing stuff up is good, too. Still, Fascinate + Suggestion= win. :P