Bards in Combat? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Bards in Combat? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Callista
07-19-05, 11:24 AM Simple question:

Can a Bard, while maintaining Bardic Music (except for Fascinate and other effects which require concentration, naturally), fight in melee or ranged combat? This would be after the first round, of course, since beginning bardic music takes a round.
Illion the Red
07-19-05, 11:35 AM Simple question:

Can a Bard, while maintaining Bardic Music (except for Fascinate and other effects which require concentration, naturally), fight in melee or ranged combat? This would be after the first round, of course, since beginning bardic music takes a round.

Not so simple answer:

It depends. If the bard is maintaining bardic music with his or her voice and the effect does not require concentration or the use of his or her hands, then I'd say yes. If the bard is using an instrument that requires use of his or her hands, then I would say no.
kam_Islash
07-19-05, 12:48 PM With weapon finesse and a light weapon I would let the bard "dance to the music" while fighting beautifully.
Thorak
07-19-05, 01:59 PM Simple answer; Yes. The exceptions are that if you're using an instrument, you can't be wielding a weapon in the hands playing it and maintain the music effect, though you can easily sing/chant, if your Perform in that is high enough. And that some effects, like Fascinate, take concentration to maintain, but those are specifically detailed as such.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with a singing bard Inspring Courage in themselves as they fight, for instance.
Vaalingrade Ashland
07-19-05, 02:10 PM Yes a bard can maintain bardic music effects while fighting. This is why bards usually take song or oration, so they don't have to stop playing to fight.

HOWEVER, a bard must be careful that while fighting, the subject of his fascinate isn't threatened, or the fascinate ends.
^Graff_EpsilonIX
07-19-05, 02:58 PM Yes, I concur, just watch what you currently have in hand and make sure no slots are taken up.
Light of Day
07-19-05, 03:54 PM Starting a bardic music effect is a standard action. Some bardic music music abilities require concentration, which means the bard must take a standard action each round to maintain the ability. Even while using bardic music that doesn't require concentration, a bard cannot cast spells, activate magic items by spell completion (such as scrolls), or activate magic items by magic word (such as wands).Player's handbook, page 29.

That seems to imply to me that as long as you're not using an instrument, and the music doesn't require concentration, you're good to sing and fight at the same time. I believe the only bardic musics that require concentration are fascinate, inspire competence and song of freedom, so any of the others are good.

Also, remember that the effects of inspire courage, inspire greatness and inspire heroics last for 5 rounds after you stop singing. I once played a surprisingly effective bard/dragon disciple whos usual tactics were inspire courage for a round, cast rage on himself, then charge. Tore through most monsters like they were made of paper.
Wookie1120
07-19-05, 08:52 PM I once played a surprisingly effective bard/dragon disciple whos usual tactics were inspire courage for a round, cast rage on himself, then charge. Tore through most monsters like they were made of paper.

remember, you can also continue your bard stuff while raging. Makes bard/barbarians fun :D
Helmed Horror
07-19-05, 09:29 PM Also, remember that the effects of inspire courage, inspire greatness and inspire heroics last for 5 rounds after you stop singing. I once played a surprisingly effective bard/dragon disciple whos usual tactics were inspire courage for a round, cast rage on himself, then charge. Tore through most monsters like they were made of paper.

oh the irony.....

anyways, another neat idea is the paladin/bard concept thanks to complete adventure's feat devoted performer!

smite! I smite the Evil Dragon! Smite! Smite! [/sing]
Cloud Clone
07-20-05, 01:58 AM remember, you can also continue your bard stuff while raging. Makes bard/barbarians fun :D

Hope you don't mean to imply that a player can sing while raging because, well, he can't.
SeidonVanDolf
07-20-05, 03:21 AM Allow me to recite what the Player's Handbook has to say about this query.

*ahem*
"Starting a bardic music effect is a standard action. Some bardic music abilities require concentration, which means the bard must take a standard action each round to maintain the ability. Even while using bardic music that doesn't require concentration, a bard cannot cast spells, activate magic items by spell completion (such as scrolls), or activate magic items by magic word (such as wands). Just as for casting a spell with a verbal component (see Components, page 174), a deaf bard has a 20% chance to fail when attempting to use bardic music. If he fails, the attempt still counts against his daily limit."

Under the list of things a bard cannot do while he is using bardic music take a standard attack is not among them. The only time that a bard cannot take an attack during bardic music is if he is using an effect which requires his concentration. Otherwise he can attack or react normally within the above mentioned limits. This passage was located in the PHB v3.5 on page 29 under Bardic Music.
Lorianne
07-20-05, 03:35 AM remember, you can also continue your bard stuff while raging. Makes bard/barbarians fun :D
Hope you don't mean to imply that a player can sing while raging because, well, he can't.
I agree, you can't perform while raging. In a rage, you can't use Cha-based skills. I know that you can activate the rage after you've made the check, but I'd still rule against allowing it.
aod318
08-11-05, 11:30 PM Check out the Dervish in Comp Warrior.
tseb
08-12-05, 04:21 AM Check out the Dervish in Comp Warrior.

And the slippers of battle dance in the DMG II.
Callista
08-12-05, 08:25 AM Barbarian/Bard... Hmmm...

That sounds rather interesting, actually. Tribal societies use music (or rhythm) during or before battle all the time... Isn't there a PrC that helps you combine those two more easily?

It seems to me that music, chanting, or playing an instrument (probably not the lute, but drums make sense!) might actually enhance a Barbarian's rage.
CaoSlayer
08-12-05, 02:18 PM the two words you are searching are the bardarians and the skalds.

the warchanter prc or the warrior skald one are nice when combined with a multiclass barbarian/bard (wc>ws)
eudas
08-12-05, 02:42 PM http://www.giantitp.com/oots/oots0301.gif

eudas

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Callista 07-19-05, 11:24 AM	Simple question: Can a Bard, while maintaining Bardic Music (except for Fascinate and other effects which require concentration, naturally), fight in melee or ranged combat? This would be after the first round, of course, since beginning bardic music takes a round.
Illion the Red 07-19-05, 11:35 AM	Simple question: Can a Bard, while maintaining Bardic Music (except for Fascinate and other effects which require concentration, naturally), fight in melee or ranged combat? This would be after the first round, of course, since beginning bardic music takes a round. Not so simple answer: It depends. If the bard is maintaining bardic music with his or her voice and the effect does not require concentration or the use of his or her hands, then I'd say yes. If the bard is using an instrument that requires use of his or her hands, then I would say no.
kam_Islash 07-19-05, 12:48 PM	With weapon finesse and a light weapon I would let the bard "dance to the music" while fighting beautifully.
Thorak 07-19-05, 01:59 PM	Simple answer; Yes. The exceptions are that if you're using an instrument, you can't be wielding a weapon in the hands playing it and maintain the music effect, though you can easily sing/chant, if your Perform in that is high enough. And that some effects, like Fascinate, take concentration to maintain, but those are specifically detailed as such. There's absolutely nothing wrong with a singing bard Inspring Courage in themselves as they fight, for instance.
Vaalingrade Ashland 07-19-05, 02:10 PM	Yes a bard can maintain bardic music effects while fighting. This is why bards usually take song or oration, so they don't have to stop playing to fight. HOWEVER, a bard must be careful that while fighting, the subject of his fascinate isn't threatened, or the fascinate ends.
^Graff_EpsilonIX 07-19-05, 02:58 PM	Yes, I concur, just watch what you currently have in hand and make sure no slots are taken up.
Light of Day 07-19-05, 03:54 PM	Starting a bardic music effect is a standard action. Some bardic music music abilities require concentration, which means the bard must take a standard action each round to maintain the ability. Even while using bardic music that doesn't require concentration, a bard cannot cast spells, activate magic items by spell completion (such as scrolls), or activate magic items by magic word (such as wands).Player's handbook, page 29. That seems to imply to me that as long as you're not using an instrument, and the music doesn't require concentration, you're good to sing and fight at the same time. I believe the only bardic musics that require concentration are fascinate, inspire competence and song of freedom, so any of the others are good. Also, remember that the effects of inspire courage, inspire greatness and inspire heroics last for 5 rounds after you stop singing. I once played a surprisingly effective bard/dragon disciple whos usual tactics were inspire courage for a round, cast rage on himself, then charge. Tore through most monsters like they were made of paper.
Wookie1120 07-19-05, 08:52 PM	I once played a surprisingly effective bard/dragon disciple whos usual tactics were inspire courage for a round, cast rage on himself, then charge. Tore through most monsters like they were made of paper. remember, you can also continue your bard stuff while raging. Makes bard/barbarians fun :D
Helmed Horror 07-19-05, 09:29 PM	Also, remember that the effects of inspire courage, inspire greatness and inspire heroics last for 5 rounds after you stop singing. I once played a surprisingly effective bard/dragon disciple whos usual tactics were inspire courage for a round, cast rage on himself, then charge. Tore through most monsters like they were made of paper. oh the irony..... anyways, another neat idea is the paladin/bard concept thanks to complete adventure's feat devoted performer! smite! I smite the Evil Dragon! Smite! Smite! [/sing]
Cloud Clone 07-20-05, 01:58 AM	remember, you can also continue your bard stuff while raging. Makes bard/barbarians fun :D Hope you don't mean to imply that a player can sing while raging because, well, he can't.
SeidonVanDolf 07-20-05, 03:21 AM	Allow me to recite what the Player's Handbook has to say about this query. ahem "Starting a bardic music effect is a standard action. Some bardic music abilities require concentration, which means the bard must take a standard action each round to maintain the ability. Even while using bardic music that doesn't require concentration, a bard cannot cast spells, activate magic items by spell completion (such as scrolls), or activate magic items by magic word (such as wands). Just as for casting a spell with a verbal component (see Components, page 174), a deaf bard has a 20% chance to fail when attempting to use bardic music. If he fails, the attempt still counts against his daily limit." Under the list of things a bard cannot do while he is using bardic music take a standard attack is not among them. The only time that a bard cannot take an attack during bardic music is if he is using an effect which requires his concentration. Otherwise he can attack or react normally within the above mentioned limits. This passage was located in the PHB v3.5 on page 29 under Bardic Music.
Lorianne 07-20-05, 03:35 AM	remember, you can also continue your bard stuff while raging. Makes bard/barbarians fun :D Hope you don't mean to imply that a player can sing while raging because, well, he can't. I agree, you can't perform while raging. In a rage, you can't use Cha-based skills. I know that you can activate the rage after you've made the check, but I'd still rule against allowing it.
aod318 08-11-05, 11:30 PM	Check out the Dervish in Comp Warrior.
tseb 08-12-05, 04:21 AM	Check out the Dervish in Comp Warrior. And the slippers of battle dance in the DMG II.
Callista 08-12-05, 08:25 AM	Barbarian/Bard... Hmmm... That sounds rather interesting, actually. Tribal societies use music (or rhythm) during or before battle all the time... Isn't there a PrC that helps you combine those two more easily? It seems to me that music, chanting, or playing an instrument (probably not the lute, but drums make sense!) might actually enhance a Barbarian's rage.
CaoSlayer 08-12-05, 02:18 PM	the two words you are searching are the bardarians and the skalds. the warchanter prc or the warrior skald one are nice when combined with a multiclass barbarian/bard (wc>ws)
eudas 08-12-05, 02:42 PM	http://www.giantitp.com/oots/oots0301.gif eudas