Becoming immune to pain [Archive] - Wizards Community

Becoming immune to pain [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Ibbins
06-10-05, 08:18 PM My character recently aquired a magical, mechanical hand; I asked the creator of the hand if I'd ever be able to remove it; he said it wasn't possible without experiencing a fail deal of pain, which immediately gave me the idea to become immune to pain.

This, I think, would be detrimental to my combat abilities; pain is a meter of danger to one's health and all that. So I think that becoming immune to pain would, along with some other interesting effects(like immunity to pain effects, obviously), take away my ability to gauge my condition of health; that is, I could never know how many hitpoint I have left. Any input on this matter?

Also, what process would be needed to become immune to pain, like what level of magic or whatever?
Archangel_James
06-10-05, 08:42 PM If I were to DM that game, I would make the following calls:

Subduel damage does not affect you. However, every time you get 4 points of subduel damage, you take 1 point of lethal damage.

You would not know how much damage you took or how much you were healed. You could take a move action to determine your HP within 1d10-1 (50% chance of guessing too high or too low), or take a full round action to determine within 1d4-1. Obviously, this would involve sight primarily, so you wouldn't be able to do this if you were blind.
Shaken, not Stunned
06-10-05, 11:03 PM Hrm.... Umm. Hrm.

Well, technically you... I mean. Well, you don't actually know how many HP you have left anyway. I think it is reasonable to assume that you will know, after being stabbed, that you are hurt. One of the basic principals of HP is that you didn't actually get stabbed. You kind of 'rolled with it.' When you actually get hit, you will feel an acute pressure, like when you have a tooth pulled while numb. You know that their is an immense amount of force there, you just don't feel it to be painful.

I don't see that there would be a drawback here accept on things like magic or energy damage. You may be unaware that you are being 'hurt' by fire, only that it is very warm. This kind of thing may be subject to some thinking about to understand just how badly hurt you are.

If I were adjucating this in a D&D game, I would apply a -1 penalty on all saves regarding energy damage, because you are slower to detect, and hence slower to respond to, threats of this type. I would, in exchange for this benefit, give you the ability to function as normal at 0 HP. You would otherwise function as a normal PC in all respects, including being susceptible to magical pain (maybe even more so). Role play situations would be affected accordingly.

Oh, and on to answering the question you actually asked: Autohypnosis. XPH, under skills. DC 15: Ignore pain IIRC.
LosGunD
06-11-05, 12:03 AM Yeah, you definitely wouldn't know how bad you were hit. You would of course know if you were hit or not and how many times you were. But you could not make an accurate judgement of the state of being you currently were in at the time or how many more similar hits you could take. So have the DM run you hp and all that. I don't know if I would personally allow it as DM, it's too abstract for my tastes. If your DM's willing to give it a shot though, more power to you.
SnowbearK
06-11-05, 12:41 AM After I had a bit of major surgery (organ removal...what fun! :rolleyes: ), I was put on an extremely high dosage of narcotic painkillers, to the point that I had no sense of pain at all.

I leaned over on the kitchen counter, sinking a full inch of steakknife into my upper torso, near my armpit. Never felt a thing -- the only reason I even noticed it was the large pool of blood that appeared on the counter when I stood up, and the sound of the knife hitting the floor.

Another half-inch deeper and it would have punctured a lung. Two and a half inches north and it would have pierced the artery, I would have bled out and never known it until it was much too late.

Pain is the body's alarm system. It says "Hey jackass, you're stabbing yourself with a knife, STOP BEFORE YOU DIE!" or "Gee, since you can't see the foot long, half-inch deep gash down the middle of your back, maybe it'd be a good idea to stop the bleeding and have a professional look at it before you bend over and expose your spine to the world?"

Game Mechanic wise though, the DM should keep track of your HP. A successful diagnostic Heal check (DC 15) should give someone a decent idea of where you stand.

Also, you might not know you were ever hit, depending upon the hit itself. A razor-blade with the Wounding ability with a strike from behind by someone with improved invisibility, and you could die standing at the urinal for no reason apparent to you.
mrgoat
06-11-05, 01:09 AM The Shadowrun system has a piece of gear that lets your character turn on and off his/her ability to feel pain. You gain the benefit of not having penalties due to being damaged and in pain (shadowrun gives you penalties on tests according to how much damage you've taken), but while it's on, you don't get to know how much damage you've taken at all, unless you have some other means to gauge it. (Like guessing by looking, making a medical test, or using another piece of gear that monitors your condition for you.)

Since D&D doesn't have modifiers for HP damage, I'd say you just don't get to keep track of your own HP. Your body still goes into shock and dies normally, so I'd rule that you're still out at 0, and dead at -10. I'd also say you don't take the penalties associated with pain effects, but any damage such an effect would do still applies normally. (Like a spell that states that it does 3d6 damage and gives the target -2 to all rolls due to the extensive pain would just do the 3d6. I believe the BoVD has such spells in a few places.)
psychocow
06-11-05, 02:36 AM There are rules for drugs that take away your sense of pain in the BoVD and as such I was thinking of making a character who's addicted to these things. I'm thinking this would actually take away from your wisdom score. Numbing your pain would additional general numb most of your tactile sensations depending on how and why it happened. This would give you a -1 wisdom score because of decreased physical awareness. Immunity to all pain effects would be the obvious bonus maybe I'ld make it a feat with a prerequisite of die hard or something. -5 foot speed navigating in the dark because you have trouble feeling along. Srry I think this was more of me rambling than any help maybe it'll give you something to think about.
Kintara
06-11-05, 02:45 AM The spell Empyreal Ecstasy (Book of Exalted Deeds) makes you immune to pain, but it does a bunch of other stuff, too, and doesn't last a long time. Still, it might be interesting to look at for ideas. It would be interesting if you made an item that had a continuous version of that spell on you. I have no idea how much that would cost, though I think it might be possible to figure it out by comparison.
NinjaGarret
06-11-05, 03:12 AM Is there such a thing as a Rage Potion? Something to emulate a barbarian's rage, if you aren't one? If I was DMing, I'd allow a raging barbarian to ignore pain.

That, or you could get really shitfaced on cheap ale. It works for tattoos.
Fargren
06-11-05, 09:41 AM Does he just ignore pain, or ignore all tactile fellings? That could make ahuge diference.
And if you don't fell pain, and get cakstabbed, you wouldnt react, and a sneak attack would probably do extra damage, and you'd get an aditional -2CA for not being aware of being attacked.
ehrin
06-11-05, 11:14 AM snowbeark, wonderful example.

IRL, there are folks known as "horses" who have no ability to sense pain the way normal folks do. Basically, nothing except extreme pain even registers to them. It was once theorized they might make great soldiers, but as snowbeark points out, it didn't work... the men basically injured themselves right out of training. Sure, they didn't scream with pain, but a broken leg that they try to walk on just gets worse, does more damage. That cut doesn't get their attention, so they bleed out in their boots, and only notice when they black out.

basically, we found out that knowing about pain is a good thing. Being immune to it makes for problems...

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Ibbins 06-10-05, 08:18 PM	My character recently aquired a magical, mechanical hand; I asked the creator of the hand if I'd ever be able to remove it; he said it wasn't possible without experiencing a fail deal of pain, which immediately gave me the idea to become immune to pain. This, I think, would be detrimental to my combat abilities; pain is a meter of danger to one's health and all that. So I think that becoming immune to pain would, along with some other interesting effects(like immunity to pain effects, obviously), take away my ability to gauge my condition of health; that is, I could never know how many hitpoint I have left. Any input on this matter? Also, what process would be needed to become immune to pain, like what level of magic or whatever?
Archangel_James 06-10-05, 08:42 PM	If I were to DM that game, I would make the following calls: Subduel damage does not affect you. However, every time you get 4 points of subduel damage, you take 1 point of lethal damage. You would not know how much damage you took or how much you were healed. You could take a move action to determine your HP within 1d10-1 (50% chance of guessing too high or too low), or take a full round action to determine within 1d4-1. Obviously, this would involve sight primarily, so you wouldn't be able to do this if you were blind.
Shaken, not Stunned 06-10-05, 11:03 PM	Hrm.... Umm. Hrm. Well, technically you... I mean. Well, you don't actually know how many HP you have left anyway. I think it is reasonable to assume that you will know, after being stabbed, that you are hurt. One of the basic principals of HP is that you didn't actually get stabbed. You kind of 'rolled with it.' When you actually get hit, you will feel an acute pressure, like when you have a tooth pulled while numb. You know that their is an immense amount of force there, you just don't feel it to be painful. I don't see that there would be a drawback here accept on things like magic or energy damage. You may be unaware that you are being 'hurt' by fire, only that it is very warm. This kind of thing may be subject to some thinking about to understand just how badly hurt you are. If I were adjucating this in a D&D game, I would apply a -1 penalty on all saves regarding energy damage, because you are slower to detect, and hence slower to respond to, threats of this type. I would, in exchange for this benefit, give you the ability to function as normal at 0 HP. You would otherwise function as a normal PC in all respects, including being susceptible to magical pain (maybe even more so). Role play situations would be affected accordingly. Oh, and on to answering the question you actually asked: Autohypnosis. XPH, under skills. DC 15: Ignore pain IIRC.
LosGunD 06-11-05, 12:03 AM	Yeah, you definitely wouldn't know how bad you were hit. You would of course know if you were hit or not and how many times you were. But you could not make an accurate judgement of the state of being you currently were in at the time or how many more similar hits you could take. So have the DM run you hp and all that. I don't know if I would personally allow it as DM, it's too abstract for my tastes. If your DM's willing to give it a shot though, more power to you.
SnowbearK 06-11-05, 12:41 AM	After I had a bit of major surgery (organ removal...what fun! :rolleyes: ), I was put on an extremely high dosage of narcotic painkillers, to the point that I had no sense of pain at all. I leaned over on the kitchen counter, sinking a full inch of steakknife into my upper torso, near my armpit. Never felt a thing -- the only reason I even noticed it was the large pool of blood that appeared on the counter when I stood up, and the sound of the knife hitting the floor. Another half-inch deeper and it would have punctured a lung. Two and a half inches north and it would have pierced the artery, I would have bled out and never known it until it was much too late. Pain is the body's alarm system. It says "Hey jackass, you're stabbing yourself with a knife, STOP BEFORE YOU DIE!" or "Gee, since you can't see the foot long, half-inch deep gash down the middle of your back, maybe it'd be a good idea to stop the bleeding and have a professional look at it before you bend over and expose your spine to the world?" Game Mechanic wise though, the DM should keep track of your HP. A successful diagnostic Heal check (DC 15) should give someone a decent idea of where you stand. Also, you might not know you were ever hit, depending upon the hit itself. A razor-blade with the Wounding ability with a strike from behind by someone with improved invisibility, and you could die standing at the urinal for no reason apparent to you.
mrgoat 06-11-05, 01:09 AM	The Shadowrun system has a piece of gear that lets your character turn on and off his/her ability to feel pain. You gain the benefit of not having penalties due to being damaged and in pain (shadowrun gives you penalties on tests according to how much damage you've taken), but while it's on, you don't get to know how much damage you've taken at all, unless you have some other means to gauge it. (Like guessing by looking, making a medical test, or using another piece of gear that monitors your condition for you.) Since D&D doesn't have modifiers for HP damage, I'd say you just don't get to keep track of your own HP. Your body still goes into shock and dies normally, so I'd rule that you're still out at 0, and dead at -10. I'd also say you don't take the penalties associated with pain effects, but any damage such an effect would do still applies normally. (Like a spell that states that it does 3d6 damage and gives the target -2 to all rolls due to the extensive pain would just do the 3d6. I believe the BoVD has such spells in a few places.)
psychocow 06-11-05, 02:36 AM	There are rules for drugs that take away your sense of pain in the BoVD and as such I was thinking of making a character who's addicted to these things. I'm thinking this would actually take away from your wisdom score. Numbing your pain would additional general numb most of your tactile sensations depending on how and why it happened. This would give you a -1 wisdom score because of decreased physical awareness. Immunity to all pain effects would be the obvious bonus maybe I'ld make it a feat with a prerequisite of die hard or something. -5 foot speed navigating in the dark because you have trouble feeling along. Srry I think this was more of me rambling than any help maybe it'll give you something to think about.
Kintara 06-11-05, 02:45 AM	The spell Empyreal Ecstasy (Book of Exalted Deeds) makes you immune to pain, but it does a bunch of other stuff, too, and doesn't last a long time. Still, it might be interesting to look at for ideas. It would be interesting if you made an item that had a continuous version of that spell on you. I have no idea how much that would cost, though I think it might be possible to figure it out by comparison.
NinjaGarret 06-11-05, 03:12 AM	Is there such a thing as a Rage Potion? Something to emulate a barbarian's rage, if you aren't one? If I was DMing, I'd allow a raging barbarian to ignore pain. That, or you could get really shitfaced on cheap ale. It works for tattoos.
Fargren 06-11-05, 09:41 AM	Does he just ignore pain, or ignore all tactile fellings? That could make ahuge diference. And if you don't fell pain, and get cakstabbed, you wouldnt react, and a sneak attack would probably do extra damage, and you'd get an aditional -2CA for not being aware of being attacked.
ehrin 06-11-05, 11:14 AM	snowbeark, wonderful example. IRL, there are folks known as "horses" who have no ability to sense pain the way normal folks do. Basically, nothing except extreme pain even registers to them. It was once theorized they might make great soldiers, but as snowbeark points out, it didn't work... the men basically injured themselves right out of training. Sure, they didn't scream with pain, but a broken leg that they try to walk on just gets worse, does more damage. That cut doesn't get their attention, so they bleed out in their boots, and only notice when they black out. basically, we found out that knowing about pain is a good thing. Being immune to it makes for problems...