Beginner Monk [Archive] - Wizards Community

Beginner Monk [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Yeti_Confetti
04-08-07, 11:40 PM I'm fairly new at D&D, and am starting my second character. I've been jumping around from class to class, and I really like that Monks can do decent damage without relying upon armor and weapons.

I was hoping some members with previous Monk experience wouldn't mind sharing a couple tips, ideas and suggestions as to how my Monk can achieve its highest potential. Also, what you liked or didn't like about the Monk.

Thanks!
Perseus_Stoned
04-08-07, 11:51 PM I'm fairly new at D&D, and am starting my second character. I've been jumping around from class to class, and I really like that Monks can do decent damage without relying upon armor and weapons.

I was hoping some members with previous Monk experience wouldn't mind sharing a couple tips, ideas and suggestions as to how my Monk can achieve its highest potential. Also, what you liked or didn't like about the Monk.

Thanks!

If you don't want to deal with armor/weapons at all check out the "Vow of Poverty" feat from "Book of Exalted Deeds". Are you looking for anything in particular on how to play your monk?

High wisdom is great, for AC, as well as constitution to take damage. Look into taking a 1 level dip into cleric (if your DM doesn't do multiclass penalties) to use a wand with "Divine Power" (it greatly augment your killing power). Get your resident mage to class spells like "enlarge person" on you and get them to transcribe a bunch of scrolls with "mage armor" (its super cheap) to use on you; make even take some ranks into "Use Magic Device" specifically to utilize those scrolls.
Reyemile
04-09-07, 12:03 AM If you're looking for power, my suggestion for monks is to not play one. Monks are generally considered, on the character optimization board, to be one of the weakest classes; people play them either to get into neat prestige classes or as a one-level 'dip' to get the AC bonus.

That being said, don't let that deter you from playing what you want. People also consider Monks to be one of the more fun classes. If you think that Monks are flavorful and cool, play one and enjoy yourself; just make sure that you're the kind of player that will still be able to have fun when a Barbarian or Cleric (or a Druid's animal companion) out-damages you.
Yeti_Confetti
04-09-07, 12:06 AM If you're looking for power, my suggestion for monks is to not play one. Monks are generally considered, on the character optimization board, to be one of the weakest classes; people play them either to get into neat prestige classes or as a one-level 'dip' to get the AC bonus.

That being said, don't let that deter you from playing what you want. People also consider Monks to be one of the more fun classes. If you think that Monks are flavorful and cool, play one and enjoy yourself; just make sure that you're the kind of player that will still be able to have fun when a Barbarian or Cleric (or a Druid's animal companion) out-damages you.

Owch! I definitely don't want to be out-damaged by an animal companion... I might have to rethink this again. My first character was a Druid, and I was pretty happy with the character but I wanted to experience something else. I like the idea of doing good damage, but I'm afraid a Fighter might be a little dull for my taste.

Thanks for your help Perseus and Reyemile! :D
Perseus_Stoned
04-09-07, 12:07 AM If you're looking for power, my suggestion for monks is to not play one. Monks are generally considered, on the character optimization board, to be one of the weakest classes; people play them either to get into neat prestige classes or as a one-level 'dip' to get the AC bonus.

That being said, don't let that deter you from playing what you want. People also consider Monks to be one of the more fun classes. If you think that Monks are flavorful and cool, play one and enjoy yourself.

If you're not playing an optimized campaign they'll be great and might even take center floor. Since you're new to DnD I'm assuming that's not the case; trust me you will do great things with him.
runestar
04-09-07, 12:08 AM Because the monk was never designed to be a combat class in the first place, you should not particularly be distressed if you find yourself outdamaged by fighters and barbs. It is to be expected. Think of it more as a jack of all trades, the combat version of the bard.

At low lvs, spellcasters are your friends, especially with the wizard's ability to cast mage armour and prot from alignment on you, and enchant your fists with magic weapon.

Nothing much I didn't like about it, just didn't fit my play style, that was all. I was more of a "hit me, I hit you back twice as hard" kind of player. Monk just could not deliver in that aspect.
Yeti_Confetti
04-09-07, 12:09 AM oOoOo Well, my group sticks to the PH core classes and some prestige classes... and I've already made character sheets for my monk I'm just having a difficult time seeing her full potential.
bobothechimp
04-09-07, 12:20 AM One thing you will want to note, that most people seem to fail to realize about the monk. The monk is not intended to be a tank or a big damage dealer, he simply is not fit for it. The monk's average base attack bonus, low armor class, average hit die, and high speed make him unfit for the role. What a monk is useful for is to run past the crunchy outer shell of foes to pummel the soft, fleshy spellcasters underneath.
Perseus_Stoned
04-09-07, 12:22 AM One thing you will want to note, that most people seem to fail to realize about the monk. The monk is not intended to be a tank or a big damage dealer, he simply is not fit for it. The monk's average base attack bonus, low armor class, average hit die, and high speed make him unfit for the role. What a monk is useful for is to run past the crunchy outer shell of foes to pummel the soft, fleshy spellcasters underneath.

Please note my cleric dip suggestion gives +6 str and full BAB (which synergizes great with flurry of blows), both of which help significantly with damage (extra attack and extra strength) and accuracy (full BAB and extra strength). Plus, if you concentrate on both wisdom and dexterity (or if you have "Vow of Poverty" feat) you can have crazy good AC.
Yeti_Confetti
04-09-07, 12:27 AM Currently the lvl 5 Monk I have has an AC of 16, +3 Str and +3 Dex. I played the character for the first time a couple nights ago, and I was a little unprepared (didn't have feats chosen) but she did decent damage. I'll definitely look into the Cleric and this is going to sound totally noob, but what is BAB? :D Thanks
Coveredinbeeees
04-09-07, 12:28 AM I've been having a great time playing a monk. He is far from optimised but he does reasonable damage and moves like the wind. He's a lean mean flanking machine.

Remember that every 10' of unarmoured speed bonus from being a monk gives you a +4 bonus to your jump checks. Right now my monk is at lvl 7 and is getting a +8 bonus to his jump checks from his speed alone. When i hit lvl 9 it will be +12. Throw in acrobat boots and a haste spell and his 12 str and 7 ranks let him jump 10' into the air on a roll of 1 with a running start or perform a long jump of 40' on a roll of 1.

Even without the magic spells or equipment he can still perform a 5' high jump or a 20' long jump on a roll of 1 with a running start. This is without even maxing out his ranks in the jump skill.

Where the monk class comes into it's own is in speed and manoeuvrability.
Perseus_Stoned
04-09-07, 12:29 AM Currently the lvl 5 Monk I have has an AC of 16, +3 Str and +3 Dex. I played the character for the first time a couple nights ago, and I was a little unprepared (didn't have feats chosen) but she did decent damage. I'll definitely look into the Cleric and this is going to sound totally noob, but what is BAB? :D Thanks

BAB = base attack bonus. It represents how many attacks a full-round you get, as well as your "base" bonus to your attack rating (along with strength and various other modifiers). It also helps you met prerequisites for prestige classes.

I'm afraid I can't help with your feat selection, although if you hop on over to the "character optimization" boards (or just google it) I'm willing to bet you can find a complete list.
Yeti_Confetti
04-09-07, 12:42 AM Well, it's great that you can jump so far, Bees, but... my jump skills aren't my highest priority when choosing a class. :)

Thanks again, Perseus! I've already looked through some of the optimization boards but like I said, I'm fairly new and some of that seems pretty complicated. I want to stick to some class basics at first and eventually I might begin customizing and stuff... if my DM allows it. :D
punching bag
04-11-07, 09:59 AM If you are finding the info on the CharOp boards complicated, try to stick to the basics. Like some of the other posters have stated, the monk is not and will never be a front line tanker. So you have to play to your strengths. For example:

1) Speed and Mobility: The monk owns here. Use the tumble skill to get past the tough opponents and engage the arcane spellcasters at close range. Use your stunning fist ability to try to get them out of the fight.

2) Pick a "tactical" specialty. You will notice that the monk gets to choose bonus feats like Improved Trip, Improved Grapple, Stunning Fist, or Improved Disarm. You can't get them all, but try to be good in one or two areas. Also note that some of the "special monk weapons" like the nunchuku and the sai give bonuses to disarm, and you can make trip attacks with the kama.

3) Build on number 1 and 2 above. There is no such thing as an "off hand" attack for the monk who is using flurry of blows. Monk weapons can be used interchangeably in a flurry. So hold a kama in one hand, a sai in the other. Now you can choose to flurry and mix in tripping and disarming attacks with your kicks and elbows.

4) Read up on the Grappling rules. If you have the Improved Grapple feat, then this option becomes very nice for taking out enemy mages and clerics. Grappling makes it very tough to cast spells, and if you can pin an enemy you can choose to prevent him from speaking.

5) General notes: Keep moving, rely on your high speed and mobility to put yourself in advantageous positions. Use your tactical specialty to make life difficult for the enemy. Rely on your friends to watch your back, especially if you are grappling.

6) Know what you are good at: Don't stand toe to toe with the big baddies, let the fighter types do that. Rely on your mobility, resistances and high saves to keep you in the fight.

7) Know what you are bad at: The monk is probably the most colourful class out there, but it absolutely sucks at dealing damage. Just wait until you have to fight an enemy with Damage Reduction and you'll see what I mean. Constructs are even worse! You can slightly improve this with magic items and monk weapons made of special materials (EG adamantine or cold iron Kamas for example). Keep a couple of different weapons with different damage types around to help you overcome Damage reduction (Sai = bludgeoning, Kama = slashing, Siangham = piercing).

8) Magic Items: Try to get your hands on things that improve your strengths. Stat boosting items, amulet of natural armour, amulet of mighty fists, wings of flying and special monk weapons come to mind.

Now go kick butt Bruce Lee style!
Max_Graeves
04-11-07, 01:45 PM Too bad you're sticking to the core classes - there was a great alternate monk in a past issue of dragon (last year? can't remember), the chaos monk...no lawful alignment restrictions, which I really hated. The chaos monk went well with the drunken master prestige class from CW. Aside from that, stick with punching bag's suggestions. Monks aren't tanks, but at later levels they can be extremely lethal.
Praedoran
04-11-07, 03:29 PM Improved Natural Attack, feat out of Monster Manual I. 4D8 damage at 20th level, Enlarge Person will improve this to 6D8.

I highly recommend you take the aforementioned feat. At your level, Potions of Mage Armor will give you AC 20. However, Monks are built for cinematic combat, not for a straight up brawl.

For example, Mr. Jump:
A +40 Jump lets you rebound off a wall, smash the base of a statue 30 ft. up, that then crashes onto an enemy. A move of 120 ft/Round lets you grab an opponent, run straight up a tree and hang him on some branch.

It's just more fun than saying, "I attack."
WhiteRaven810
04-12-07, 02:27 AM At the sixth level you'll have a BAB of four. At this point take Improved Natural Attack (Unarmed Strike) as a feat. It's located somewhere in the back of the MM I. With it you'll deal damage as if you were one size larger. So while your a Medium Human (my favorite Monk race), or even a small Halfing, your damage will scale closer to that of the party Fighter or Barbarian.

Also in the Dungeon Master's Guide is a magic belt called either the Monk's Belt. For a mere thirteen thousand drakes you're Monk level is counted as five higher for the purposes of Speed Bonus, Unarmed Strike damage size, and AC bonus. A magic gaunlet from Complete Divine does the same (and they stack!), but you have to worship Bahamut and have True Believer as a feat to use it.

Additionally, a well planned one or four level dip into Sorcerer can give you some decent bluffs. Things like Enlarge Person (which would stack with your Improved Natural Attack fear), Sheild, and Mage Armor. Fist of Stone (Complete Arcane) also seemed like a great spell for Monk/Sorcerer's to cast, but off the top of my head I cannot recall why anymore.

P.S. - Don't let anybody discourage you. A well played Monk is a beautiful class to play. It and the Warlock (also considered under powered) are my favorite D&D classes.

P.S.S. - Welcome to Dungeons and Dragons and the Wizard Forum.
Yokomohoyo
04-12-07, 03:21 AM Monks are lots of fun. Yes they are weaker than a fighter or a barbarian; but then again they are intended as back up melee and back up scouts. They make for great for speedy assults and to roleplay one is lots of fun.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Yeti_Confetti 04-08-07, 11:40 PM	I'm fairly new at D&D, and am starting my second character. I've been jumping around from class to class, and I really like that Monks can do decent damage without relying upon armor and weapons. I was hoping some members with previous Monk experience wouldn't mind sharing a couple tips, ideas and suggestions as to how my Monk can achieve its highest potential. Also, what you liked or didn't like about the Monk. Thanks!
Perseus_Stoned 04-08-07, 11:51 PM	I'm fairly new at D&D, and am starting my second character. I've been jumping around from class to class, and I really like that Monks can do decent damage without relying upon armor and weapons. I was hoping some members with previous Monk experience wouldn't mind sharing a couple tips, ideas and suggestions as to how my Monk can achieve its highest potential. Also, what you liked or didn't like about the Monk. Thanks! If you don't want to deal with armor/weapons at all check out the "Vow of Poverty" feat from "Book of Exalted Deeds". Are you looking for anything in particular on how to play your monk? High wisdom is great, for AC, as well as constitution to take damage. Look into taking a 1 level dip into cleric (if your DM doesn't do multiclass penalties) to use a wand with "Divine Power" (it greatly augment your killing power). Get your resident mage to class spells like "enlarge person" on you and get them to transcribe a bunch of scrolls with "mage armor" (its super cheap) to use on you; make even take some ranks into "Use Magic Device" specifically to utilize those scrolls.
Reyemile 04-09-07, 12:03 AM	If you're looking for power, my suggestion for monks is to not play one. Monks are generally considered, on the character optimization board, to be one of the weakest classes; people play them either to get into neat prestige classes or as a one-level 'dip' to get the AC bonus. That being said, don't let that deter you from playing what you want. People also consider Monks to be one of the more fun classes. If you think that Monks are flavorful and cool, play one and enjoy yourself; just make sure that you're the kind of player that will still be able to have fun when a Barbarian or Cleric (or a Druid's animal companion) out-damages you.
Yeti_Confetti 04-09-07, 12:06 AM	If you're looking for power, my suggestion for monks is to not play one. Monks are generally considered, on the character optimization board, to be one of the weakest classes; people play them either to get into neat prestige classes or as a one-level 'dip' to get the AC bonus. That being said, don't let that deter you from playing what you want. People also consider Monks to be one of the more fun classes. If you think that Monks are flavorful and cool, play one and enjoy yourself; just make sure that you're the kind of player that will still be able to have fun when a Barbarian or Cleric (or a Druid's animal companion) out-damages you. Owch! I definitely don't want to be out-damaged by an animal companion... I might have to rethink this again. My first character was a Druid, and I was pretty happy with the character but I wanted to experience something else. I like the idea of doing good damage, but I'm afraid a Fighter might be a little dull for my taste. Thanks for your help Perseus and Reyemile! :D
Perseus_Stoned 04-09-07, 12:07 AM	If you're looking for power, my suggestion for monks is to not play one. Monks are generally considered, on the character optimization board, to be one of the weakest classes; people play them either to get into neat prestige classes or as a one-level 'dip' to get the AC bonus. That being said, don't let that deter you from playing what you want. People also consider Monks to be one of the more fun classes. If you think that Monks are flavorful and cool, play one and enjoy yourself. If you're not playing an optimized campaign they'll be great and might even take center floor. Since you're new to DnD I'm assuming that's not the case; trust me you will do great things with him.
runestar 04-09-07, 12:08 AM	Because the monk was never designed to be a combat class in the first place, you should not particularly be distressed if you find yourself outdamaged by fighters and barbs. It is to be expected. Think of it more as a jack of all trades, the combat version of the bard. At low lvs, spellcasters are your friends, especially with the wizard's ability to cast mage armour and prot from alignment on you, and enchant your fists with magic weapon. Nothing much I didn't like about it, just didn't fit my play style, that was all. I was more of a "hit me, I hit you back twice as hard" kind of player. Monk just could not deliver in that aspect.
Yeti_Confetti 04-09-07, 12:09 AM	oOoOo Well, my group sticks to the PH core classes and some prestige classes... and I've already made character sheets for my monk I'm just having a difficult time seeing her full potential.
bobothechimp 04-09-07, 12:20 AM	One thing you will want to note, that most people seem to fail to realize about the monk. The monk is not intended to be a tank or a big damage dealer, he simply is not fit for it. The monk's average base attack bonus, low armor class, average hit die, and high speed make him unfit for the role. What a monk is useful for is to run past the crunchy outer shell of foes to pummel the soft, fleshy spellcasters underneath.
Perseus_Stoned 04-09-07, 12:22 AM	One thing you will want to note, that most people seem to fail to realize about the monk. The monk is not intended to be a tank or a big damage dealer, he simply is not fit for it. The monk's average base attack bonus, low armor class, average hit die, and high speed make him unfit for the role. What a monk is useful for is to run past the crunchy outer shell of foes to pummel the soft, fleshy spellcasters underneath. Please note my cleric dip suggestion gives +6 str and full BAB (which synergizes great with flurry of blows), both of which help significantly with damage (extra attack and extra strength) and accuracy (full BAB and extra strength). Plus, if you concentrate on both wisdom and dexterity (or if you have "Vow of Poverty" feat) you can have crazy good AC.
Yeti_Confetti 04-09-07, 12:27 AM	Currently the lvl 5 Monk I have has an AC of 16, +3 Str and +3 Dex. I played the character for the first time a couple nights ago, and I was a little unprepared (didn't have feats chosen) but she did decent damage. I'll definitely look into the Cleric and this is going to sound totally noob, but what is BAB? :D Thanks
Coveredinbeeees 04-09-07, 12:28 AM	I've been having a great time playing a monk. He is far from optimised but he does reasonable damage and moves like the wind. He's a lean mean flanking machine. Remember that every 10' of unarmoured speed bonus from being a monk gives you a +4 bonus to your jump checks. Right now my monk is at lvl 7 and is getting a +8 bonus to his jump checks from his speed alone. When i hit lvl 9 it will be +12. Throw in acrobat boots and a haste spell and his 12 str and 7 ranks let him jump 10' into the air on a roll of 1 with a running start or perform a long jump of 40' on a roll of 1. Even without the magic spells or equipment he can still perform a 5' high jump or a 20' long jump on a roll of 1 with a running start. This is without even maxing out his ranks in the jump skill. Where the monk class comes into it's own is in speed and manoeuvrability.
Perseus_Stoned 04-09-07, 12:29 AM	Currently the lvl 5 Monk I have has an AC of 16, +3 Str and +3 Dex. I played the character for the first time a couple nights ago, and I was a little unprepared (didn't have feats chosen) but she did decent damage. I'll definitely look into the Cleric and this is going to sound totally noob, but what is BAB? :D Thanks BAB = base attack bonus. It represents how many attacks a full-round you get, as well as your "base" bonus to your attack rating (along with strength and various other modifiers). It also helps you met prerequisites for prestige classes. I'm afraid I can't help with your feat selection, although if you hop on over to the "character optimization" boards (or just google it) I'm willing to bet you can find a complete list.
Yeti_Confetti 04-09-07, 12:42 AM	Well, it's great that you can jump so far, Bees, but... my jump skills aren't my highest priority when choosing a class. :) Thanks again, Perseus! I've already looked through some of the optimization boards but like I said, I'm fairly new and some of that seems pretty complicated. I want to stick to some class basics at first and eventually I might begin customizing and stuff... if my DM allows it. :D
punching bag 04-11-07, 09:59 AM	If you are finding the info on the CharOp boards complicated, try to stick to the basics. Like some of the other posters have stated, the monk is not and will never be a front line tanker. So you have to play to your strengths. For example: 1) Speed and Mobility: The monk owns here. Use the tumble skill to get past the tough opponents and engage the arcane spellcasters at close range. Use your stunning fist ability to try to get them out of the fight. 2) Pick a "tactical" specialty. You will notice that the monk gets to choose bonus feats like Improved Trip, Improved Grapple, Stunning Fist, or Improved Disarm. You can't get them all, but try to be good in one or two areas. Also note that some of the "special monk weapons" like the nunchuku and the sai give bonuses to disarm, and you can make trip attacks with the kama. 3) Build on number 1 and 2 above. There is no such thing as an "off hand" attack for the monk who is using flurry of blows. Monk weapons can be used interchangeably in a flurry. So hold a kama in one hand, a sai in the other. Now you can choose to flurry and mix in tripping and disarming attacks with your kicks and elbows. 4) Read up on the Grappling rules. If you have the Improved Grapple feat, then this option becomes very nice for taking out enemy mages and clerics. Grappling makes it very tough to cast spells, and if you can pin an enemy you can choose to prevent him from speaking. 5) General notes: Keep moving, rely on your high speed and mobility to put yourself in advantageous positions. Use your tactical specialty to make life difficult for the enemy. Rely on your friends to watch your back, especially if you are grappling. 6) Know what you are good at: Don't stand toe to toe with the big baddies, let the fighter types do that. Rely on your mobility, resistances and high saves to keep you in the fight. 7) Know what you are bad at: The monk is probably the most colourful class out there, but it absolutely sucks at dealing damage. Just wait until you have to fight an enemy with Damage Reduction and you'll see what I mean. Constructs are even worse! You can slightly improve this with magic items and monk weapons made of special materials (EG adamantine or cold iron Kamas for example). Keep a couple of different weapons with different damage types around to help you overcome Damage reduction (Sai = bludgeoning, Kama = slashing, Siangham = piercing). 8) Magic Items: Try to get your hands on things that improve your strengths. Stat boosting items, amulet of natural armour, amulet of mighty fists, wings of flying and special monk weapons come to mind. Now go kick butt Bruce Lee style!
Max_Graeves 04-11-07, 01:45 PM	Too bad you're sticking to the core classes - there was a great alternate monk in a past issue of dragon (last year? can't remember), the chaos monk...no lawful alignment restrictions, which I really hated. The chaos monk went well with the drunken master prestige class from CW. Aside from that, stick with punching bag's suggestions. Monks aren't tanks, but at later levels they can be extremely lethal.
Praedoran 04-11-07, 03:29 PM	Improved Natural Attack, feat out of Monster Manual I. 4D8 damage at 20th level, Enlarge Person will improve this to 6D8. I highly recommend you take the aforementioned feat. At your level, Potions of Mage Armor will give you AC 20. However, Monks are built for cinematic combat, not for a straight up brawl. For example, Mr. Jump: A +40 Jump lets you rebound off a wall, smash the base of a statue 30 ft. up, that then crashes onto an enemy. A move of 120 ft/Round lets you grab an opponent, run straight up a tree and hang him on some branch. It's just more fun than saying, "I attack."
WhiteRaven810 04-12-07, 02:27 AM	At the sixth level you'll have a BAB of four. At this point take Improved Natural Attack (Unarmed Strike) as a feat. It's located somewhere in the back of the MM I. With it you'll deal damage as if you were one size larger. So while your a Medium Human (my favorite Monk race), or even a small Halfing, your damage will scale closer to that of the party Fighter or Barbarian. Also in the Dungeon Master's Guide is a magic belt called either the Monk's Belt. For a mere thirteen thousand drakes you're Monk level is counted as five higher for the purposes of Speed Bonus, Unarmed Strike damage size, and AC bonus. A magic gaunlet from Complete Divine does the same (and they stack!), but you have to worship Bahamut and have True Believer as a feat to use it. Additionally, a well planned one or four level dip into Sorcerer can give you some decent bluffs. Things like Enlarge Person (which would stack with your Improved Natural Attack fear), Sheild, and Mage Armor. Fist of Stone (Complete Arcane) also seemed like a great spell for Monk/Sorcerer's to cast, but off the top of my head I cannot recall why anymore. P.S. - Don't let anybody discourage you. A well played Monk is a beautiful class to play. It and the Warlock (also considered under powered) are my favorite D&D classes. P.S.S. - Welcome to Dungeons and Dragons and the Wizard Forum.
Yokomohoyo 04-12-07, 03:21 AM	Monks are lots of fun. Yes they are weaker than a fighter or a barbarian; but then again they are intended as back up melee and back up scouts. They make for great for speedy assults and to roleplay one is lots of fun.