Beguiler in drow city [Archive] - Wizards Community

Beguiler in drow city [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Sszvein
07-04-07, 09:45 PM I'm playing a drow beguiler in a drow campaign, because I like roguish characters and arcane casters and this seemed like a good opportunity to try the class, especially since it fits my vision of drows.

Now, the SR and +2 on will saves (+4 against enchantments), is really, REALLY getting on my nerves.
We've just promoted to lvl 6 at the end of the last game and I hope things will get better with clairvoyance and haste, along with glitterdust and blinding color surge.

I'm already abusing the sleight of hands trick in races of stone to conceal spellcasting (and thus enjoy cloaked casting) and I have spell focus (enchantments). Next feat I take will be spell penetration. (I took skill focus (knowledge religion) at lvl 3 to enter Divine Oracle, I need a divine link to become matron, you see; and Mindsight at lvl 6 to go with Mindbender, it should be quite useful.)

Now is there some way I can hope to suceed on something I do more often than once for every 10 tries?

Advice please?
(And no, I don't have the money for a veil of allure.)

Thanks in advance.
Sszvein
07-04-07, 09:52 PM Also, considering that, for drow, Cr is +1 and level adhjustment +2, to have an encounter the same level as our, Sr is always slightly higher. And we often face stronger opponets.

This is also true when we're not in combat and I'd like to use some "convincing", appart from using skils, but don't dare to because it'll probably fail anyway.
ravenshrike
07-05-07, 01:12 AM This is why you should have played an elf with a hat of disguise. Problem solved.
Nicholas the Paladin
07-05-07, 04:37 AM you provbably already took a look at the two beguiler handbooks that are on the CharOp forum.
Besides that, I think you just happen to be the wrong character in the wrong campaign. Try to use illusions and buffs (indeed they get better from 6th level), but you already thought of that.
The_Shaman
07-05-07, 05:02 AM I really think that illusions will be much more useful against drow. I can't suggest anything more than what is in the handbook, but once again - shadow spells are your friend. 'tis a pity you wanted to go into religion - beguilers seem quite fit to be archmages, as most of their spells are from 2 schools anyway (and the high spellcraft helps with dispelling).

For now, I guess I can only suggest that you play the trickster rather than the mage. Your skills should have more chance of working than many spells, I'm afraid. However, iirc at least 35% of the population of most drow cities consists of non-drow slaves - a valuable resource, indeed, as most of them are weak-willed and easily pushed around.
Khadmus
07-05-07, 06:33 AM Yeah...wrong place at wrong time. Find an easier mark to dupe.
vegetalss4
07-05-07, 09:05 AM This is why you should have played an elf with a hat of disguise. Problem solved.

that is to easy to find out. play an elf who has be tatooed all black;)
Sszvein
07-05-07, 01:38 PM This is why you should have played an elf with a hat of disguise. Problem solved.

And how exactly does it solve the problem? They still have monster saves and SR, weither or not I do too is of little consequences.

Besides, I kind of am. I convinced my dm to let me play a lesser drow (LA+0) with the phrenic template (LA+2) since I have a neat background for it. And I'd be on par with the party who are all LA+2.

But it's still the same problem, all phrenic psi-likes have SR and have will saves, the buffs are good though and it makes for quite a nice selection.

I'll talk to the dm into including non-drows somewhere, because we seem to be the only ones to be dragging half-ogres, undeads and the like with us. Everyone we encounter or deal with are bloody drows.

And yes, the skills are great. Gotta love that bluff, sense motive and sleight of hand.
And the divine approach has it's perks too, managed to beat the priestess in theological debate, haha. :P I'll watch my back now...
DrMorganes
07-05-07, 06:33 PM hm...

See if you can get your DM to break the Psionic/Magic Transparency Rule. SR would then no longer apply to your Psi-like abilities, giving you an unusual edge in your bid to become Matron!
ravenshrike
07-06-07, 12:02 AM And how exactly does it solve the problem? They still have monster saves and SR, weither or not I do too is of little consequences.

Because you would have an extra two levels of spellcasting progression. This means you would have access to an entire level of spells you currently do not, and your SR penetration would be better, as well as giving you two levels of class abilities and allowing you to gain a feat quicker. Also more HP and skillpoints.
Sszvein
07-06-07, 10:44 AM True, but it was a "free" LA+2, in other words, doesn't count were XP is concerned, beacause we're in a city filled with the same and everyone in the the party will be having the same LA, thus we're still quite balanced.

Managed to beg dm to switch spell focus for spell penetration. But he insists spell penetration doesn't apply to psi-likes, because he says caster levels are not the same as manifester levels, even though SR is the same as PR and psi is treated as magic. Any hope of convincing him otherwise?

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Sszvein 07-04-07, 09:45 PM	I'm playing a drow beguiler in a drow campaign, because I like roguish characters and arcane casters and this seemed like a good opportunity to try the class, especially since it fits my vision of drows. Now, the SR and +2 on will saves (+4 against enchantments), is really, REALLY getting on my nerves. We've just promoted to lvl 6 at the end of the last game and I hope things will get better with clairvoyance and haste, along with glitterdust and blinding color surge. I'm already abusing the sleight of hands trick in races of stone to conceal spellcasting (and thus enjoy cloaked casting) and I have spell focus (enchantments). Next feat I take will be spell penetration. (I took skill focus (knowledge religion) at lvl 3 to enter Divine Oracle, I need a divine link to become matron, you see; and Mindsight at lvl 6 to go with Mindbender, it should be quite useful.) Now is there some way I can hope to suceed on something I do more often than once for every 10 tries? Advice please? (And no, I don't have the money for a veil of allure.) Thanks in advance.
Sszvein 07-04-07, 09:52 PM	Also, considering that, for drow, Cr is +1 and level adhjustment +2, to have an encounter the same level as our, Sr is always slightly higher. And we often face stronger opponets. This is also true when we're not in combat and I'd like to use some "convincing", appart from using skils, but don't dare to because it'll probably fail anyway.
ravenshrike 07-05-07, 01:12 AM	This is why you should have played an elf with a hat of disguise. Problem solved.
Nicholas the Paladin 07-05-07, 04:37 AM	you provbably already took a look at the two beguiler handbooks that are on the CharOp forum. Besides that, I think you just happen to be the wrong character in the wrong campaign. Try to use illusions and buffs (indeed they get better from 6th level), but you already thought of that.
The_Shaman 07-05-07, 05:02 AM	I really think that illusions will be much more useful against drow. I can't suggest anything more than what is in the handbook, but once again - shadow spells are your friend. 'tis a pity you wanted to go into religion - beguilers seem quite fit to be archmages, as most of their spells are from 2 schools anyway (and the high spellcraft helps with dispelling). For now, I guess I can only suggest that you play the trickster rather than the mage. Your skills should have more chance of working than many spells, I'm afraid. However, iirc at least 35% of the population of most drow cities consists of non-drow slaves - a valuable resource, indeed, as most of them are weak-willed and easily pushed around.
Khadmus 07-05-07, 06:33 AM	Yeah...wrong place at wrong time. Find an easier mark to dupe.
vegetalss4 07-05-07, 09:05 AM	This is why you should have played an elf with a hat of disguise. Problem solved. that is to easy to find out. play an elf who has be tatooed all black;)
Sszvein 07-05-07, 01:38 PM	This is why you should have played an elf with a hat of disguise. Problem solved. And how exactly does it solve the problem? They still have monster saves and SR, weither or not I do too is of little consequences. Besides, I kind of am. I convinced my dm to let me play a lesser drow (LA+0) with the phrenic template (LA+2) since I have a neat background for it. And I'd be on par with the party who are all LA+2. But it's still the same problem, all phrenic psi-likes have SR and have will saves, the buffs are good though and it makes for quite a nice selection. I'll talk to the dm into including non-drows somewhere, because we seem to be the only ones to be dragging half-ogres, undeads and the like with us. Everyone we encounter or deal with are bloody drows. And yes, the skills are great. Gotta love that bluff, sense motive and sleight of hand. And the divine approach has it's perks too, managed to beat the priestess in theological debate, haha. :P I'll watch my back now...
DrMorganes 07-05-07, 06:33 PM	hm... See if you can get your DM to break the Psionic/Magic Transparency Rule. SR would then no longer apply to your Psi-like abilities, giving you an unusual edge in your bid to become Matron!
ravenshrike 07-06-07, 12:02 AM	And how exactly does it solve the problem? They still have monster saves and SR, weither or not I do too is of little consequences. Because you would have an extra two levels of spellcasting progression. This means you would have access to an entire level of spells you currently do not, and your SR penetration would be better, as well as giving you two levels of class abilities and allowing you to gain a feat quicker. Also more HP and skillpoints.
Sszvein 07-06-07, 10:44 AM	True, but it was a "free" LA+2, in other words, doesn't count were XP is concerned, beacause we're in a city filled with the same and everyone in the the party will be having the same LA, thus we're still quite balanced. Managed to beg dm to switch spell focus for spell penetration. But he insists spell penetration doesn't apply to psi-likes, because he says caster levels are not the same as manifester levels, even though SR is the same as PR and psi is treated as magic. Any hope of convincing him otherwise?