Beguiler Question [Archive] - Wizards Community

Beguiler Question [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Roxmav
03-19-07, 03:14 PM Hey guys,
I hate to keep starting threads, but this didn't seem appropriate in my other thread.
I'm looking for advice on how to improve a Beguiler's Spell DC. I'm going to play a level 8 beguiler and as most of you i'm sure know, almost the entire spell set allows Will to Negate, I want to obviously make this as tough as possible to make my spells and actions effecient.

Cheers in advance.
Rillek_Denar
03-19-07, 03:52 PM Start with spell focus [Enchantment] and greater spell focus [enchantment]. There's a feat somewhere in faerun that gives you a +1 to all spell DCs, I believe. Then do all you can to boost your charisma. I think I also remember a metamagic feat that let's you boost DC's by raising spell level, but I can't be sure that's not just the ravings of a deluded mind.
TheChilliGod
03-19-07, 03:57 PM I think I also remember a metamagic feat that let's you boost DC's by raising spell level, but I can't be sure that's not just the ravings of a deluded mind.That would be Heighten Spell. It's in the PHB.

Don't forget to increase your casting stat (Int or Cha, I forget); your DC is influenced by the modifier for that stat also. Stat-increasing items usually do the trick.
Roxmav
03-19-07, 04:20 PM It's Int. for a beguiler I understand, wouldn't the spell focus only help my enchantment school of magic spells though? I believe a fair amount of also Illusion school of magic.

Making that really feat heavy for any real results.

Will check up on faerun though for sure.
Prator_the_Legendary
03-19-07, 04:54 PM I think you can take Spell Focus multiple times for multiple schools.
Rillek_Denar
03-19-07, 09:36 PM It's Int. for a beguiler I understand
Thanks for catching that.

As for spell focus, all your best spells are enchantment anyway.

And, if you don't mind mixing it up in battle, take improved feint. It stacks with the Beguiler ability, allowing to to feint as a free action. Then, if you're successful, the save DC of your spells goes up by 1 against that opponent.
Jherid
03-20-07, 12:05 AM Shape Soulmeld: (MoI) Illusion Veil gives you a +1 insight bonus to your illusion DCs.

Shadow Weave Magic (PGtF) gives a +1 bonus to your enchantment and illusion DCs.
Mystyc
03-20-07, 12:39 AM You might also look into ways to reduce your target's saving throw. Daunting Presence (Libris Mortis) or touch of idiocy are decent starters.
Merryadocc
03-20-07, 12:54 AM Take the Prodigy feat from the Players Guide to Faerun and apply it to your INT score. INT being the primary casting stat for Beguilers. It will allow you to treat your INT as 2 points higher for the purpose of your spell casting, giving you another +1 to the save DC's you impose, and also giving you more spells per day. You can only take it at first level though.

On top of what has already been suggested, I can't think of anything else.
Varia
03-20-07, 12:12 PM I have a beguiler as a cohort for my lvl 10 cleric at the moment. Any suggestions for the extra learned spells he gets every so often? (any wizard/sorcerer enchantment or illusion spell not already on his list, basically)

I've gone with Serene Visage (SC) for his first one (must be lvl 0 or 1 spell) to improve his bluff for doing his feints for his surprise casting to enable his cloaked casting (say all that 3 times fast!), and probably Entice Gift (SC) for his second (must be lvl 3 spell or less) just to be a humungous knob to enemy fighters. Its just way too fun to pass up. In a more open campaign I'd probably go with Supress Breath Weapon instead but this campaign is centered on City of the Spider Queen (no spoilers please) so I'm not expecting a lot of breathers. Do those sound like good choices, or have I missed a trick somewhere?
Cromag
03-20-07, 04:01 PM complete mage
-the fey powered feat adds 1 to CL and DC for enchantment spells

also Use invisibility, most of your spells don't break it and since enemies don't get their dex bonus against invisible people you will often increase your DC's with the beguiler ability.
Merestil Haye
03-20-07, 05:00 PM Take the Prodigy feat from the Players Guide to Faerun and apply it to your INT score. INT being the primary casting stat for Beguilers. It will allow you to treat your INT as 2 points higher for the purpose of your spell casting, giving you another +1 to the save DC's you impose, and also giving you more spells per day. You can only take it at first level though.You're still running the 3.0 version of the feat. Spellcasting Prodigy does not increase the saving throw DC any more, and has not done so for four years.
amatulic
03-26-07, 02:10 PM Hey guys,
I hate to keep starting threads, but this didn't seem appropriate in my other thread. See the thread Handbook for Building a Strong Beguiler.

I'm looking for advice on how to improve a Beguiler's Spell DC. I'm going to play a level 8 beguiler and as most of you i'm sure know, almost the entire spell set allows Will to Negate, I want to obviously make this as tough as possible to make my spells and actions effecient. Sacred Vow + Vow of Nonviolence (BoED) gives you a +4 DC to your non-damaging spells - which is nearly all the beguiler spells, including the nonlethal damage ones. I don't see a higher buff to spell DC anywhere with the same number of feats. -A
Onikani
03-26-07, 02:36 PM IMHO spell focus and greater spell focus are barely worth it.
Two feats for +2dc is really meh...

Sacred Vow + Vow of Nonviolence (BoED) gives you a +4 DC to your non-damaging spells - which is nearly all the beguiler spells, including the nonlethal damage ones. I don't see a higher buff to spell DC anywhere with the same number of feats

Now this is a worthy investment.
:D
doink1212
03-26-07, 02:57 PM Fey Heritage Feats are nifty. Look them up in Complete mage.

Fey heritage = bonus on will saves against enchantments
Fey power = +1 bonus on DC of enchantment spells
Fey Presence (lvl 6) = Gain spell like abilities charm monster, deep slumber, disguise

Fey Legacy (lvl 9) = spell like abilities confusion dimension door, summon natures ally 5.

Fey Skin = DR equal to 1+#number of Fey feats.

It is a little late, but I think they get over looked.
Cromag
03-26-07, 05:31 PM Yup Doink, I mentioned em.

I like them and they have a nice trickster flavor too. My beguiler took all of them, except the one that gives the lower level spells as beguilers already get them.

Summon natures ally and Dimension door are very nice as the beguiler has no transportation spells and no summons (although illusions are nice for this)
Jherid
03-27-07, 12:25 AM The Veil of Allure from Sandstorm raises the DC for enchantment spells by 2.
philipk
03-27-07, 04:38 PM I second (third?) the Vow of Non-Violence suggestion. One of my players uses this to (non-leathal)deadly effect.
danielinthewolvesden
03-27-07, 06:48 PM SF= Illusion is not bad either, note the very powerful at low levels Colour Spray.
Mercurius
03-27-07, 07:58 PM My beguiler's extra learned spell was Distract Assailant (SC/CV). It's a swift action to cast, and renders an opponent flat footed for one round, which is enough time to get the save DC boost, and/or also avoid attacks of opportunity. It's a really good spell, IMHO.
amatulic
03-28-07, 12:53 AM My beguiler's extra learned spell was Distract Assailant (SC/CV). It's a swift action to cast, and renders an opponent flat footed for one round, which is enough time to get the save DC boost, and/or also avoid attacks of opportunity. It's a really good spell, IMHO. I'm afraid I'm going to let my inexperience show here... A beguiler gets invisibility and can max out his Hide skill, and can cast spells silently. If you do any of those things, don't you also get the same save DC boost as if your opponent is flat-footed? -A
MareltEkiran
03-28-07, 01:04 AM True, but invisibility is dispelled when you take an offensive action, and if the spell involves a save, then it is an offensive action. Furthermore, it only lasts 1 minute per level, so it's not a spell to have running all the time (and combat can surprise you). The big benefit of the spell mentioned above is that it's a swift action to cast, meaning that you use it in the same round as your offensive spell or your attempt to flee.

I personally took Nystul's Magical Aura (it's great, because for some reason, all enemies in our games have access to magical detections), Heroism (a lot of enemies have extremely high will saves or the DM just arbitrarily decides that they are mindblanked, so I usually can't do anything offensively with my spells anyway) and Ray of Dizziness (no save and it severely cripples any fighting character and even some mages).
kokoru
03-28-07, 02:59 AM Use Improved Invidiblity for one. Two, your DM is out to get you.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Roxmav 03-19-07, 03:14 PM	Hey guys, I hate to keep starting threads, but this didn't seem appropriate in my other thread. I'm looking for advice on how to improve a Beguiler's Spell DC. I'm going to play a level 8 beguiler and as most of you i'm sure know, almost the entire spell set allows Will to Negate, I want to obviously make this as tough as possible to make my spells and actions effecient. Cheers in advance.
Rillek_Denar 03-19-07, 03:52 PM	Start with spell focus [Enchantment] and greater spell focus [enchantment]. There's a feat somewhere in faerun that gives you a +1 to all spell DCs, I believe. Then do all you can to boost your charisma. I think I also remember a metamagic feat that let's you boost DC's by raising spell level, but I can't be sure that's not just the ravings of a deluded mind.
TheChilliGod 03-19-07, 03:57 PM	I think I also remember a metamagic feat that let's you boost DC's by raising spell level, but I can't be sure that's not just the ravings of a deluded mind.That would be Heighten Spell. It's in the PHB. Don't forget to increase your casting stat (Int or Cha, I forget); your DC is influenced by the modifier for that stat also. Stat-increasing items usually do the trick.
Roxmav 03-19-07, 04:20 PM	It's Int. for a beguiler I understand, wouldn't the spell focus only help my enchantment school of magic spells though? I believe a fair amount of also Illusion school of magic. Making that really feat heavy for any real results. Will check up on faerun though for sure.
Prator_the_Legendary 03-19-07, 04:54 PM	I think you can take Spell Focus multiple times for multiple schools.
Rillek_Denar 03-19-07, 09:36 PM	It's Int. for a beguiler I understand Thanks for catching that. As for spell focus, all your best spells are enchantment anyway. And, if you don't mind mixing it up in battle, take improved feint. It stacks with the Beguiler ability, allowing to to feint as a free action. Then, if you're successful, the save DC of your spells goes up by 1 against that opponent.
Jherid 03-20-07, 12:05 AM	Shape Soulmeld: (MoI) Illusion Veil gives you a +1 insight bonus to your illusion DCs. Shadow Weave Magic (PGtF) gives a +1 bonus to your enchantment and illusion DCs.
Mystyc 03-20-07, 12:39 AM	You might also look into ways to reduce your target's saving throw. Daunting Presence (Libris Mortis) or touch of idiocy are decent starters.
Merryadocc 03-20-07, 12:54 AM	Take the Prodigy feat from the Players Guide to Faerun and apply it to your INT score. INT being the primary casting stat for Beguilers. It will allow you to treat your INT as 2 points higher for the purpose of your spell casting, giving you another +1 to the save DC's you impose, and also giving you more spells per day. You can only take it at first level though. On top of what has already been suggested, I can't think of anything else.
Varia 03-20-07, 12:12 PM	I have a beguiler as a cohort for my lvl 10 cleric at the moment. Any suggestions for the extra learned spells he gets every so often? (any wizard/sorcerer enchantment or illusion spell not already on his list, basically) I've gone with Serene Visage (SC) for his first one (must be lvl 0 or 1 spell) to improve his bluff for doing his feints for his surprise casting to enable his cloaked casting (say all that 3 times fast!), and probably Entice Gift (SC) for his second (must be lvl 3 spell or less) just to be a humungous knob to enemy fighters. Its just way too fun to pass up. In a more open campaign I'd probably go with Supress Breath Weapon instead but this campaign is centered on City of the Spider Queen (no spoilers please) so I'm not expecting a lot of breathers. Do those sound like good choices, or have I missed a trick somewhere?
Cromag 03-20-07, 04:01 PM	complete mage -the fey powered feat adds 1 to CL and DC for enchantment spells also Use invisibility, most of your spells don't break it and since enemies don't get their dex bonus against invisible people you will often increase your DC's with the beguiler ability.
Merestil Haye 03-20-07, 05:00 PM	Take the Prodigy feat from the Players Guide to Faerun and apply it to your INT score. INT being the primary casting stat for Beguilers. It will allow you to treat your INT as 2 points higher for the purpose of your spell casting, giving you another +1 to the save DC's you impose, and also giving you more spells per day. You can only take it at first level though.You're still running the 3.0 version of the feat. Spellcasting Prodigy does not increase the saving throw DC any more, and has not done so for four years.
amatulic 03-26-07, 02:10 PM	Hey guys, I hate to keep starting threads, but this didn't seem appropriate in my other thread. See the thread Handbook for Building a Strong Beguiler. I'm looking for advice on how to improve a Beguiler's Spell DC. I'm going to play a level 8 beguiler and as most of you i'm sure know, almost the entire spell set allows Will to Negate, I want to obviously make this as tough as possible to make my spells and actions effecient. Sacred Vow + Vow of Nonviolence (BoED) gives you a +4 DC to your non-damaging spells - which is nearly all the beguiler spells, including the nonlethal damage ones. I don't see a higher buff to spell DC anywhere with the same number of feats. -A
Onikani 03-26-07, 02:36 PM	IMHO spell focus and greater spell focus are barely worth it. Two feats for +2dc is really meh... Sacred Vow + Vow of Nonviolence (BoED) gives you a +4 DC to your non-damaging spells - which is nearly all the beguiler spells, including the nonlethal damage ones. I don't see a higher buff to spell DC anywhere with the same number of feats Now this is a worthy investment. :D
doink1212 03-26-07, 02:57 PM	Fey Heritage Feats are nifty. Look them up in Complete mage. Fey heritage = bonus on will saves against enchantments Fey power = +1 bonus on DC of enchantment spells Fey Presence (lvl 6) = Gain spell like abilities charm monster, deep slumber, disguise Fey Legacy (lvl 9) = spell like abilities confusion dimension door, summon natures ally 5. Fey Skin = DR equal to 1+#number of Fey feats. It is a little late, but I think they get over looked.
Cromag 03-26-07, 05:31 PM	Yup Doink, I mentioned em. I like them and they have a nice trickster flavor too. My beguiler took all of them, except the one that gives the lower level spells as beguilers already get them. Summon natures ally and Dimension door are very nice as the beguiler has no transportation spells and no summons (although illusions are nice for this)
Jherid 03-27-07, 12:25 AM	The Veil of Allure from Sandstorm raises the DC for enchantment spells by 2.
philipk 03-27-07, 04:38 PM	I second (third?) the Vow of Non-Violence suggestion. One of my players uses this to (non-leathal)deadly effect.
danielinthewolvesden 03-27-07, 06:48 PM	SF= Illusion is not bad either, note the very powerful at low levels Colour Spray.
Mercurius 03-27-07, 07:58 PM	My beguiler's extra learned spell was Distract Assailant (SC/CV). It's a swift action to cast, and renders an opponent flat footed for one round, which is enough time to get the save DC boost, and/or also avoid attacks of opportunity. It's a really good spell, IMHO.
amatulic 03-28-07, 12:53 AM	My beguiler's extra learned spell was Distract Assailant (SC/CV). It's a swift action to cast, and renders an opponent flat footed for one round, which is enough time to get the save DC boost, and/or also avoid attacks of opportunity. It's a really good spell, IMHO. I'm afraid I'm going to let my inexperience show here... A beguiler gets invisibility and can max out his Hide skill, and can cast spells silently. If you do any of those things, don't you also get the same save DC boost as if your opponent is flat-footed? -A
MareltEkiran 03-28-07, 01:04 AM	True, but invisibility is dispelled when you take an offensive action, and if the spell involves a save, then it is an offensive action. Furthermore, it only lasts 1 minute per level, so it's not a spell to have running all the time (and combat can surprise you). The big benefit of the spell mentioned above is that it's a swift action to cast, meaning that you use it in the same round as your offensive spell or your attempt to flee. I personally took Nystul's Magical Aura (it's great, because for some reason, all enemies in our games have access to magical detections), Heroism (a lot of enemies have extremely high will saves or the DM just arbitrarily decides that they are mindblanked, so I usually can't do anything offensively with my spells anyway) and Ray of Dizziness (no save and it severely cripples any fighting character and even some mages).
kokoru 03-28-07, 02:59 AM	Use Improved Invidiblity for one. Two, your DM is out to get you.