Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Aelfric_Parvoti 04-01-07, 08:14 PM	Anyone like this class? I don't see people posting much about them at all. I thought I'd ask advice, because I'm about to play one in a new campaign, starting at lvl 1 - 28 point buy. Its tough because I feel like I have to spread my attributes so thin, because so many of them are important for the beguiler. Anyone have any experiance with this class? What were yours like if you have?
Einvaldurinn_mikli 04-01-07, 08:54 PM	I like it, haven't played one yet but it looks fun. As for attributes, your most important ones are INT and then Dex/Cha. The others are secondary really.
Comus 04-02-07, 01:04 AM	They rock. I just wrapped up a game where I played a Beguiler, and it's perfect if you want to be manipulative and sneaky.
Azezel 04-02-07, 07:36 AM	It's a very solid class. That's why you probably don't see much about them on the boards - they're not over or underpowered, they don't have any really bizaar powers that need clarification, and the won't break a game. They are a bit MAD - but nothing you should not be able to cover with an average set of ability rolls.
Prator_the_Legendary 04-02-07, 10:15 AM	Hmmm... Looking over this class, I see many wonderful things about it: 1. 6+int mod skill points at every level, which is the most that any class ever gets. 2. All the skills you need to play a master rogue and party diplomat are class skills. 3. More spells per day than the wizard, and you need not prepare ahead of time (Like a sorcerer). 4. Metamagic bonus feats and other special trickery abilities. So, basically, this class makes wizards specializing in the Enchantment or Illusion spellschools comepletely obsolete. And with a collection of skills like the ones listed in here, I'll bet Complete Scoundrel offers all kinds of options for more tricks and stunts. I've never played one, but in theory this could be a really impressive class for people who know how to use illusions well.
Nakat 04-02-07, 01:15 PM	1. 6+int mod skill points at every level, which is the most that any class ever gets. Rogue = 8+INT
bob_the_great 04-02-07, 01:48 PM	I have yet to play a beguiler so I can't speak from experience but one thing that struck me is that most of your spells won't work against enemies immune to mind-affecting magic. You'll have to find a way to contribute against these enemies (figure out ahead of time which spells will work, buff your allies, use UMD, etc.). besides that obvious weakness it looks like a fun class. As for MAD I'd probably priotitize abilies Int - Cha - Dex - Con - Wis - Str and try to avoid combat as much as possible. Maybe 16 - 14 - 14 - 12 - 10 - 8 for a 28 point-buy game. Hmmm... Looking over this class, I see many wonderful things about it: 1. 6+int mod skill points at every level, which is the most that any class ever gets. 2. All the skills you need to play a master rogue and party diplomat are class skills. 3. More spells per day than the wizard, and you need not prepare ahead of time (Like a sorcerer). 4. Metamagic bonus feats and other special trickery abilities. So, basically, this class makes wizards specializing in the Enchantment or Illusion spellschools comepletely obsolete. And with a collection of skills like the ones listed in here, I'll bet Complete Scoundrel offers all kinds of options for more tricks and stunts. I've never played one, but in theory this could be a really impressive class for people who know how to use illusions well. wow, don't go overboard. beguilers get 2+ schools of magic while a specialized wizard gets 6 (and a non-specialized wizard who just really likes enchantment or illusion gets all 8). giving up 2 schools hurts because of the spells you lose access to; downgrading from the wizard list to the beguiler list is not an option for someone who wants the diversity and power arcane casting provides.
Prator_the_Legendary 04-02-07, 05:18 PM	Rogue = 8+INT Oops, my bad... Still, 6+Int is a lot compared to what most classes get. This is coming from a guy who plays clerics and fighters a lot. wow, don't go overboard. beguilers get 2+ schools of magic while a specialized wizard gets 6 (and a non-specialized wizard who just really likes enchantment or illusion gets all 8). Hmmm... You can argue this one both ways, really. I'm interpreting "specialist" as a person who consistently prepares almost nothing but illusions/enchantments daily. Theoretically, their powers are more diverse, but that doesn't necessarily mean they're actually using all those diverse powers.
Onikani 04-02-07, 06:11 PM	Beguilers are good if your party already has a caster. You get a lot of good utility spells, so you free up the wizard/sorc so they can concentrate as a blaster. You can double up as a party face, and a skill monkey. What you are really playing is a modified bard! Except you trade bardic music and healing spells for more spells per day and a greater selection known. Beguilers are good depending on the game, and they fill several several useful niches in the party. But i agree that they aren't game breaking...
StevenO 04-02-07, 07:09 PM	The Beguiler is a nice class but how you develop it depends a little on the rest of the party. You don't match the Rogue's combat ability but match up nicely with its skill set as you should have a higher INT. As for the spellcasting side I don't thing an Illusionist/Enchanter type really has anything on this class. Starting a Beguiler with 28 PB I'd go with this stat Set: Str 10, Dex 14, Con 12, Int 16, Wis 10, Cha 12 Int is definitely the most important stat as it governs both your spellcasting and gives you more skills; it is because of the extra skill points that I'd start with a 16 instead of the 15 I normally stop at with PB. Although is seems like CHA is an important stat all the class really needs it for is skill checks and with a high enough INT you should be able to purchase those ranks anyway; if looking for points to spend someplace else these are the ones that would go. DEX and CON are important for survival and I'd prefer to avoid penalties in the other stats when possible.