Post/Author/DateTime	Post
shadowfox628 12-10-05, 12:48 AM	Being a DM myself, I'd have to say that it's pretty ingenious. However, as a PC in this particular campain, I like to put it into my own words: "We're screwed." Classes: The group has a Fighter/Devoted Defender (me), a Ranger/Devoted Defender (my character's "brother"), a Bard, a Rogue, and a Cleric. For this session (that happened on 12/8/05), the Cleric wasn't present, and thank god. The person playing the Cleric usually plays spellcasters, and his spellcasters are infamous for messing up. Terribly. So, it's best that I leave it at that. Scenario: A government caravan, that had a local military installment's wages, was attacked, and the wages were lost. Upon hearing this, all the PC's raced for the installment, and found out if they could be payed. During their combined solo investigations, they banded together (the Bard and Rogue by a contract, and the brothers and the Bard contracted (held up by scythe-point)) and found a cave. Now, I knew from the week before that Beholders were behind it ("The eyes, the eyes!" one soldier said, and the fact that there were 2 oval-shaped figures about 60 feet in the air one night, flying around), and I tried to warn the others. Anyway, we find a cave, go down a smooth tunnel, go into another, end up in an egg/treasure chamber, and see the Beholders. Misfortunes: 1) The Bard, and I have no idea what she was thinking, goes up to the DM and asks him "Are we fighting Beholders today?" He says no, lying. She then starts saying I'm paranoid, and think's we have to fight a bird (why and hoe she came to that conclusion, I have no idea). 2) We're cut off from our entry-way (the vertical tunnel, in which we climbed down a rope, which I won't explain how it's still succure other than wagon+grapplinghook+rope=rope and anchor) by 2 Beholders, and they're hungry. 3) The group, in all honesty, will be ripped to shreds by Commoners if I'm not in the campain. (The Bard casts a spell, THEN looks up it's effects..... And she's a PC in my Friday Campain, and can't accept that fact that what the DM says is final. THe Rogue is just new, and he can't help that. The Cleric, in real life, is stuck up, think's he's all powerful, and is an a$$... In the game, he's just plain useless... Except that he's only going to be good for resurrecting our dead bodies, IF he thinks of it. The Ranger/Devoted Defender is, in all honesty, useless without a leader.) And even if I'm still in the group, the DM is ruthless. What's Good (Suprising, isn't it?): 1) I thought ahead to look up about Beholders before hand, and learned, generally, what they can do. I also know their average health (93), their AC (26), the Save DC's used for their various rays (17), and their highest listed attack bonus (+11). 2) Since they're hungry, they'll use Disinegrate on ones giving them too much trouble. 3) They HAVE to be Lawful. (To quote the DM, "You hear a voice say behind you, 'Good news, honey, we won't have to find dinner tonight! Our dinner has come to us!'" If they were Neutral, they probibly would have atatcked us already, and if they were Chaotic, they DEFINATELY would have attacked us already.) Bad in General: 1) THe Cleric isn't there, and if he "magically" appears next Thurs, then he can't be of much help. 2) The Bard is thinking of BURNING the eggs. (It's not a matter of IF they can be burned, but that she's not thinking. And I quote: Person- "Don't use any spells!" Bard- "Why would I? I don't have any fire spells!") 3) The Bard think's everyone BUT her is expandable (True, she is our main spellcaster, but that doesn't mean we don't have other spellcasters). 4) The person mentioned in the quote in 2) thinks that the Bard just can't admit that she needs my help. (In all honesty, she does need a lot of help. She needs someone to teach her). I don't know if that's true. Bard's Plans: 1) The Bard's plan (Burn the eggs). Now, I don't know if Beholders lay eggs, but it's best not to argue with the DM. THe problem with the plan is that if we CAN destroy the eggs by burning them, then we'll only earn the Beholder's wrath. 2) This is probibly what the Bard will do once I tell her why she shouldn't burn the eggs. She'll probibly make her Bard take flight, and leave the rest of us for dead. Again, she think's she's invincible. My Plans: Main: Speak logic to the Beholders. This is obviously one that we don't fight in. Make a bargain with them. Say that if they spare our lives, then we will get even more food for them. I think this will work mainly because the military people at the installment want their wage. If they bring more than 4 soldiers to recover THOUSANDS of gold coins, then the Beholders got a good deal. However, we would have to take some of the gold as proof, and I don't know if the Beholders will let us do that. However, if it succeeds (and I'm not sure if it will), then we all live for another session. Backup: If the main plan fails, then I'm going to do something slightly similar to the Bard's plans. Hold the eggs hostage. Not the best plan, but it might pull through for us. However, we can't destroy the eggs, because, again, that will earn us the Beholder's wrath. So, fellow PC's, I come to you for help. The group I play with will not last long unless the fist of Intellegence slams down upon our heads, like a hammer onto a nail, to let us live at least one session longer.... Seriously, I need ideas.
Radijs 12-10-05, 05:47 AM	Well if the beholders in your campaign lay eggs and one beholder already said "honey dinners coming" Then its not a very wild guess that they value those eggs. So from here on I will refer to the eggs as hostages. You're not lawful good are you? Another option is to shove the bard towards the beholders and shout "DINNER'S READY!" and then make a run for it. In the hope that you can find a second exit somehow.
MarkB 12-10-05, 07:06 AM	What's Good (Suprising, isn't it?): 1) I thought ahead to look up about Beholders before hand, and learned, generally, what they can do. I also know their average health (93), their AC (26), the Save DC's used for their various rays (17), and their highest listed attack bonus (+11). Did you do this in-character? If not, the DM may disallow you from making tactical use of this knowledge. 2) Since they're hungry, they'll use Disinegrate on ones giving them too much trouble. If they're played smart (and any DM who uses Beholders should play them smart, or he's not doing it right) don't count on that. Disintegrate has serious tactical uses beyond destroying a victim - creating instant deadfalls, sundering every useful item you carry, or dropping you straight into a 10-foot-cubed pit, for instance. 3) They HAVE to be Lawful. (To quote the DM, "You hear a voice say behind you, 'Good news, honey, we won't have to find dinner tonight! Our dinner has come to us!'" If they were Neutral, they probibly would have atatcked us already, and if they were Chaotic, they DEFINATELY would have attacked us already.) Unless they just like to play with their food. Maybe they're so convinced you can't harm them that they want to see what you try, for entertainment.
BigDumb 12-10-05, 10:12 AM	Speaking to enemies is always questionable depending on your GM. If your GM is prepared for combat then expect a fight. I do not know to many GMs that are able to adapt to sideways thinking players. Personally, beholders are a communal race with a language and the ability to plot. With a good INT and WIS they should be seen as NPC monsters which can be bargained with. If your character has a good social skill, use it and hope for the best. The bard (diplomacy/bluff) or rouge (bluff) would be a much better choice, but judging by your lack of faith in them I would keep your plan based on your character's abilities. The egg hostage sounds good, but how crafty is your GM? Given the difficult way your group arrived I would say climbing with 1 hand would be impossible. As an evil, NPC, plotting monster the second you let your guard down I would, as a GM, pounce on your soon to be digested carcasses. Do you have any mehod of blinding them with salt or some mundane substance. Start carrying a pouch full of lye for special occasions. If you thought you were going to fight beholders, did you prep anything? Being at core a fighter against a beholder, all you can hope for is they remain at combat level. Unfortunately you crew is not able to support the fight and is ill equiped to deal with a fight. If all else fails, go for survival. Do not be the most afraid or the most in their face. Melt into the background and start climbing without letting the group know what you are doing. Pass a note to the GM telling him you are leaving the fight. Make the group think you are flanking or something. I know one character is a "brother", but he can always be resurrected later. Better one lives that both may survive. Convince the bard/group to go after the eggs. Really PO the beholders and let them jump her/them for a round or two. More rounds of climbing as I see it. As long as 'good' is not in your alignment you should have no serious issues. If your group is as uncohesive as you say, everyone will scramble and maybe confuse the beholders enough to let the man with the plan execute it. If you can grab some group cohesion, have your invincible bard fly out and get help, while you all go full defensive, and use holding tactics. Maybe go with the hostage idea, but make them allow the bard to go and get "food" for them. If you have to fight, make sure everyone is flanking someone, and swarm them one at a time. If you divide you attacks between the two monsters then TPK, but by taking on one at a time, you might be able to drive them off, or only lose half the party. A good bluff/intimidate combo might work well against them. Your bard's social skill scould really be of use if your GM decides to go down that road instead of combat.
shadowfox628 12-10-05, 11:00 AM	Other Things: 1) My character is Chaotic Neutral. Unfortunately (or fortunately), he is a man of honor, so I think I have to change him to Lawful Neutral. However, if he does the selfish thing of saving his own hide, then that might make him evil...... 2) Alightnment issues aside, we're still screwed. The Bard only THNIKS she's invincible because she THINKS she's the only spellcatser (she plays a Cleric in my campain, yet doesn't seem to think that a Cleric is a spellcaster). 3) Unfortunately, we can't trust the Cleric as a spellcaster. His Spellcaster characters have a knak for messing up their spells. Therefore, I, regretfully, find the Bard as valuble, desipte her "Cast now, look up effect later" policy. ANd she doesn't look at her spells until a fight. Note: I remembered that she had Feather Fall, told her to use it, and tried to push her down the vertical tube (because she never said she was giving me her 100 feet of rope, becasue we were 20 feet short). She'll gladly use Dancing Lights to see down the tube, but not a Sunrod (despite my logic. TO be honest, I gave my character and his brother temporary blindness by activating a Sunrod in the middle of the night. Everyone yelled at me, when I was just playing in character). 4) I looked up the stats on Beholders in my spare time. I don't even own a Monster Manual, but I have friends that do. 5) Since the Bard doesn't think to a) use the eggs as hostage (she want to destroy them, like THAT will save us), or b) talk it out. Also, she doesn't seem to like it when I'm right about something..... Even when there were vertical and parallel tubes going into a mountin.... And she thought it was a bird who did it..... 6) To be honest, I can trust on the Rogue because, well, he listens to me, and my character's brother because.... My character is the leader. Bad: 1) I know you can't flank Beholders (unless you blind a bunch of their eyes) 2) Even if I did blind one eye, there's many more to deal with. 3) Due to all of their eyes facing in about all directions, I'm not sure there's any way I can sneak past. 4) I gave the Bard my honor to guard her. Then again, I could easily have lied about it... 5) My characters have no sort of powder, unless there would be powder in the Bard's Spell COmponent Pouch. Let me tell you, for being ina school of smart people, she's (or we, in general) aren't all that smart. Here's an example: Bard- "What's a Spell Component Pouch?" 6) The Bard, from my knowladge (I made her character) has no spells that allow her to fly. 7) The Bard is the type to save her own hide, boast that she's "invincible," and keep making her character act like an idiot, despite her INT score. Look, it's not that I don't have faith in the others (well, that is true), but it's the fact of experience and personality. The Rogue is just plain new, but at least he listens to me. So does the Ranger, who's 1st favored enemy is, well, whatever catagory that beholders go into. The Cleric is one who will act like "I'm so powerful, I'm so smart, I'll run away." The Bard is the same way too. I've said it once, and this is popular opinion here (at school), but I'm the groups only chance. Look, I'll easily cheat some powder into a character's invitory. I'll gladly have a madeup magical ring appear on my character's hand to increase AC, Will, and Fort saves. Unfortunately, I'm only held back by the guilt of doing so, and the fact that the Bard's doesn't think of "what's best for the group." She only thinks of "I'll tell the DM."
Rake 12-10-05, 12:38 PM	Lol @ egg-laying beholders. Seriously, though, if you're looking up monster's stats out-of-character and considering pulling magic items out of your arse to cheat, then what's the point? Go play Diablo II with cheat codes. Find a new group or play online if your current bunch is driving you to this.
Bloodbat 12-10-05, 01:16 PM	I am not trying to be a pessimist, but your party really does not sound like it stands a chance. One thing a party MUST do is act cohesively as a unit against more difficult monsters or the party ends up dead. It sounds like your party is less a party and more a bunch of individuals who all happen to be stuck in the same spot. Such a situation may not be a problem against a few zombies but beholders are an entirely different story. You looked up that information on beholders outside of the game. As a DM, when my players have done stuff like that, my monsters get bonuses (I do not announce these bonuses but I add them to rolls) to their attack rolls, damage rolls, saves, and anything else that seems to even the playing field again. If your DM is a good one and has played with your characters before, he will know what your characters know. He will be able to identify that your character suddenly knows way too much about beholders and that the line between the player and character has been breached. Same thing with suddenly appearing magical items. If one of my players ever pulled out a magical item I knew they did not have, they might suddenly face a third beholder who happened to be floating in the shadows. I would suggest you call your friends before the next playing session and talk with each other. It sounds like you all have some problems getting along outside of the game too. Figure something out so your characters get along. If you cannot do that, then you will probably all die. On the plus side, trying to find your corpses could always be a new campaign for new characters. Obviously the DM would have to develop this campaign, but he could use your former characters as the basis for such an adventure. Destroying the eggs sounds bad. Talking to the beholders sounds better. Letting your incohesive group die while you run like mad sounds good too. Realistically, you would not need to turn evil for such an act. You are scared; your character flees. You swore to protect the bard, but you cannot force her to do something. You protected her by giving her advice and she chose not only to ignore your advice but seems to be choosing what you said not to do simply because you said not to do it. Your oath should not bind you to protect someone intent on dying.
Talonz 12-10-05, 09:56 PM	Now, I knew from the week before that Beholders were behind it ("The eyes, the eyes!" one soldier said, and the fact that there were 2 oval-shaped figures about 60 feet in the air one night, flying around), and I tried to warn the others. First things first; You may have known that, but to announce that outloud and then to act on that knowledge in game is inapropriate. Its called divorcing player knowledge from character knowledge, or roleplaying. 1) I thought ahead to look up about Beholders before hand, and learned, generally, what they can do. I also know their average health (93), their AC (26), the Save DC's used for their various rays (17), and their highest listed attack bonus (+11).2) WHY did you do that? Did you roll a critical success on your knowledge check? Did the dm rule that your family has a history of beholder hunting? Did the dm give you any kind of permission at all?! Or are you merely, as I suspect, cheating? See above re: player/character knowledge. This may be the norm for your group, but it certainly isn't in mine nor should be in any roleplaying group. My Plans: Main: Speak logic to the Beholders. ...Backup: Hold the eggs hostage. Solid plans I think. Avoid combat if you can. Heres some food for thought; what the heck do beholders need money for? Are they acting on their own or for someone/thing else? What is their motivation, and thus what can you use as bargaining chips? (the eggs, more money, more food, etc.) Seek information and use it to your advantage basically. This may be a diplomatic/info gathering encounter, although the description of your dm style leads me to believe otherwise...shame really.
shadowfox628 12-10-05, 10:10 PM	With all due respect, I'm more of those "For the good of the PC's" than "Is this right?" It's just how far I'm willing to go. However, I will NOT use cheat codes for Diablo 2..... Compatability: We do have a couple of issues. In all honesty, I'm considered dense (hey, I want to be SURE that I upset someone, because whenever I assume, bad things happen) and annoying (seriously). The Bard, well.... I've been upsetting her recently, and she expects that I know exactly what I did to upset her (to be serious, I could have done dozens of things to upset her). The Cleric...... I really only put up with him because he's a fellow PC.... and his character has its uses. The Rogue I'm fine with. The Ranger do have our qualms every now and then (and the in-character fights about who "Mom" loves more), but we're fine. Interesting: Me and the Rogue, at times, started "betting" on who would die first. It started with me "wagering" my dice, but then it soon escalated into my schoolbag, books, my SHOE... We were just kidding, but so far the odds are that either the Bard's going to die first (well, she does stupid actions... constantly) or me (because the DM will realize that I'm the only reason the group has succeeded over the only 2 sessions we've had). Other: I know not to destroy the eggs. Hostage? Well, might work out. Run away? Kindda hard, seeing as though they have eyes all around their head. Talking to them? Well, the PC group I'm in isn't exactly known for that..... The Bard will probibly destroy the eggs, the Ranger will say something stupid, the Rogue will probibly bluff (which wouldn't be all that bad), and the Cleric will argue with us that we can't do an evil act. If I can convince them all to go with my plan, and let me talk, then we;ll have a chance of getting out alive (in another campain, I convinced a Weapon's Shop owner to buy "magical" items from my character's madeup business, all without a bluff check. If that means anything or not, I don't know.) Bad for Us: THis is our first battle..... If my character lives through this, I don't want to know what a normal encounter will be.
KhalaKyRelai 12-11-05, 12:09 AM	(in another campain, I convinced a Weapon's Shop owner to buy "magical" items from my character's madeup business, all without a bluff check. If that means anything or not, I don't know.) how did you manage to not have to roll a bluff check for that?
Auburn 12-11-05, 02:54 AM	Just go along with the TPK if it starts. When you guys make new characters maybe you'll at least get some of the problems with spellcasters worked out if someone else is a spellcaster while the current players using spellcasters make non-spellcasters.
Gleddon 12-11-05, 03:46 AM	Reading through your posts, all I can think is that you are the errogant one in the group. You insult your teammates and downplay their roles, you've put yourself up as the leader and honestly sound like you're trying to control the entire group and their every action. Add in that you're willing to cheat for the "good of the party" when you are a "man of honor"... it's a game, not some contest. If you all die you take it to heart and let the DM hopefully feel good about humbling you a bit. For your problem at hand, well... you haven't really given us anything to go off of. Do you know the abilties of your teammates? What are their usual strategies? Heck, what level are you guys? Two Beholders aren't going to take their eyes off of you, which means that antimagic cone will keep your spellcasters at limited use. Beholders stealing money... either they're using it as bait, or they need it for something. I'd say your best bet is to try and fast-talk yourself into getting the reason they took it in the first place. Perhaps they need to raise enough for some purchase or cause, and you could talk yourself up as being willing to help them with that. People aren't going to be too keen to see a pair of Beholders walking into a shop, but a party of adventurers is routine. If all else fails, I'd say try the egg/hostage idea. If the bard is as crazy about destroying them as you say, then don't let her near them. She could break them before you all get away or the Beholders just might not take the risk and kill her outright if they see her as that kind of threat.
WolfHati 12-11-05, 03:59 AM	Remember to have enough people carrying eggs so that the beholders won't have a chance to disintegrate the hostage takers all at once if that is the plan. If there was some way to distract them to somewhere else, or destroy them both from range with a giant explosion or something, that would be nice I think I should play mages more often; my first thought in most combat situations is 'I wish I had a tactical nuke'.
Thanqol 12-11-05, 04:21 AM	From Lords of Madness: Beholders do *not* lay eggs, nor do they mate. They are asexual. Once in every beholder's life, their tounge swells up and explodes over a long and painful process lasting several months. When it does explode, new tiny beholders float everywhere. These tiny beholders need to be in high magic zones, or read spellbooks or scrolls etc in order to develop their eye rays. If you're in a group of Jerks, be the DM. Then totaly crack down on their asses. That got me through High School.
stranger_654 12-11-05, 04:26 AM	Maybe im the only one who noticed this, but on a side note, i think the bard is doing what shes does, such as argue about everything and hate ebing proved wrong by you cause she likes you..... And as to your problem, sit them down outside the game after the TPK thats surely coming, and say " this is going to happen a thousand times unless we start working as a team, and learning our spells, following directions, and playing better...." Anyway, my two coppers
spectralent 12-11-05, 10:58 AM	Party coherancy is essential at basic levels. Whenever you start being TACTICALLY coherant it is even better. like the time when the rogue in my party lured an ogre mob into a small cave, then snuck out.I sealed the cave with a rock (read my sig) and the druid did the rest (we were in a volcano). how about you try something clever like that? What items do you have? What is the area you are in like? Thinking tactically has saved my partys A$$ on more than 47 occasions!
shadowfox628 12-11-05, 03:59 PM	Useful Info (Because I always forget this stuff... seriously): Level- 8 Most Useful Item- Um........ A tie between Masterwork weapons and the Assassin's Bane Tunic of Invincibility. Reproducing Beholders- My DM used his DM powers to give them a reproductive cycle that's non-asexual... Whatever the other one is.... Arrogant?- Maybe a little.... Unless you consider that I'm playing with a n00b Rogue, a stuck-up Cleric, a Bard that not only refuses to listen to logic, but also goes up to the DM to ask "Are we fighting Beholders?" and believes him?.... ANd the Ranger..... Well, I don't want to get into that... I seriously may as well be the Paladin-like person in the group and take command. Everyone else, except the Bard, agrees. The Bard- She doesn't like me. Period. I've told her that I like her, but, to make a story short, I "shot myself down," and she didn't like me anyway.... She's not looking for a guy right now, understand? Cleverness: I'm not the most clever, and neither are my fellow PC's. We're suprised we even lasted the 2nd session. Now, the only thing useful we have to block off the vertical tunnel that we climbed is the wagon my character used as an anchor for his Grappling hook.... And do I have to remind you of the "Disinegrate Ray?" Now, to give proof that I wasn't thinking hard, a friend (who's in the campain) reminded me (not directly) that I have Thunderstones (..... wait, that's a sonic attack), Smokesticks, Acid, and Alchemist's Fire, as well as Alchemist's Arrow (arrows with some Alchemist's Fire in it). I doubt that the group will survive even then, but we might as well try. Also, the same friend said that a couple hundred gold pieces wouldn't be proof that we knew where the wages are. Now, there is a crystal rod in the pile, and was an ordinary looking wooden box (which I grabbed immediately, because.... come on, something so "worthless" amoung such valuble things?). Both may have been going to the military instilation. Notice: Some may think "Well, if your character suddenly knows so much about Beholders, then he could easily change the stats to even the odds!" Believe me, increaseing the statistics on Beholders would only make our chances of survival go DOWN, and doesn't level the playing field. However, my character's brother (well, half-brother, to be exact) is a Ranger, and his first Favored Enemy is, well.... I can't remember what Monster Class Beholders go into, but, whatever it is, it's his first favored enemy. Therefore, through his "brother," my character should know SOMETHING about Beholders. Other: OK, so I don't have much faith in my fellow PC's. So I think that all hope is lost, but I'm still trying. So, I'm making the Bard sound more stupid than I should. However, unless the other 3 PC's (the came up with some ideas we could use) suddenly grow a brain (Cleric, Ranger) or listen to me (Cleric, Bard), then we're as good as dead. ----- I'm going to try to logic to the Beholders while holding the Bard back from destroying the eggs. Hopefully, I won't have to tell the Bard that she needs to play her insturment to do magic, so I'll have my characters half-brother hold her arms. If that fails, I'll try the eggs. If that fails, I'll use the smokesticks...... I still think it won't work, but..... They might be saving up the money for a college fund for their children, right?..... Or something else...... ........ Help?
Radijs 12-11-05, 04:35 PM	About your knolwdege about beholders: How many ranks in knowledge arcana did your character take to represent your claimed knolwedge? If its 0 you where probably busy doing other things while your brother learned about abberations. Thats the way the DnD world works. It remains the same. You're not keeping player and character knolwedge seperate. You're metagaming and I consider that a form of cheating.
sagaman 12-12-05, 03:07 PM	My advice is: Sell tickets to this train wreck. If that doesn't help, throwing yourself on the mercy of the floating eyeballs is probably your best bet. Promise to get them lots of tasty soldiers to feast on. If that doesn't work, hold up an egg with a crossbow pointed at it. (I'm not really sure where you are in relation to the beholders and the eggs.) Honestly, I'd like to hear how it all plays out.
Demonfey 12-12-05, 06:31 PM	Before going into this, if the DM has Lords of Madness, then don't discount disintegrate. There are ways of making it to just disintegrate certain parts and not the entire body in that book.
^Graff_EpsilonIX 12-12-05, 07:10 PM	Mmm... TPK! I presume you're in a cave like structure. Try to use the natural features of the place to your advantage. Besides that, if you are using OOC knowledge go to your local store and take a look at LOM. It might help.
Bringslite 12-12-05, 11:42 PM	The OP (as well as most of the responders) seems pretty sure that this party is DHOOOOOMMMED! Before coming to this conclusion I would ask "How experienced is your DM?", "Have you played with him before?", "Is he known for using his monsters to thier fullest potential?", "Is he the type of DM to encourage his players into unwinnable situations?" The answers to these questions may relieve some of your fears. He may play the beholders so poorly or fudge in your favor so that you can win. Why else would he allow you to put yourselves into this situation so early in the campaign? He either has: 1: Little experience and no idea what he is doing. 2: Has some roleplaying in mind. 3: Wants to kill you all because of his own reasons. 1: If he is inexperienced or fudges for you some of you may survive. Being 8th lvl, raise deads may be possible for the unfotunate. 2: If he purposely let you get yourselves into the situation so that some roleplay can occur, take advantage of it. 3: Well, if he wants you dead, you likely will be... I would hope for #2. Try to convince your party to refrain from "going off". Try to talk your way out via roleplay. As fractious as your group sounds, that is your only hope. Only a very well oiled and cooperative combat party could hope to defeat 2 beholders at 8th lvl. Even if the DM plays them badly. I would focus on this option as combat will not likely turn out in your favor. In short, seek the diplomatic way out. Good luck. Lets us know what happens.
Radijs 12-13-05, 05:34 AM	Or maybe its just some of those plant things from lord of madness. CR2 critters. That would be a hoot!
shadowfox628 12-13-05, 05:13 PM	1) My character has not yet shown knowlagde of Beholders, only I have. However, if you think that my character's half-brother's first Favored Enemy being Aberration (or whatever it is) to be plauseable for my character to know, then I'll take your advise. 2) There is no published connection between Beholders and eggs. If you've ever read the DM's Guide (I DM also), it says that the rules are just guidelines, and so are descriptions of everything. You (the DM) can put limits on everything from weapons to classes (Half Orc can't be Wizards, for example). So, the DM for this campain said to himself "Beholders are going to lay eggs," instead of the whole tounge-thing explained in an earlier reply. 3) Last Thursday was our second session with him. He's been playing since Version 1, so I'm assuming he's experienced at that, minimal. However, we are unaware of "DMing Expertise." 4) He only has the 3 basic rulebooks needed to play: Player's Handbook, DM's Guide, and Monster Manual 1 (all Version 3.5). 5) My character is a Level 5 Fighter, Level 3 Devoted Defender (see "Fist and Sword" book for info on Devoted Defender.... Essentially, they're bodyguards). I never really was into knowladge checks, and I'm sure he'll go with the generic "Make an INT check," unless it's something of Bardic Knowladge quality, or even "For Your Eyes Only" security. Thoughts: Unfortunately, I was sick today, so I couldn't talk with my fellow PC's on a plan. However, I plan on talking to them tomorrow (if I'm in). I do agree that this sin't one of those "Roll Dice to Beat the S*** Out of the Enemies" situations. Rather, a "Role Play You're Way Out of It" situations. Hopefully, it will work..... ...... OK, so my Fighter has no Knowladge skills. Hey, most of the DM's don't even follow all the rules (I, personally, ignore AoO's, Spellcasting Times, the second Crit roll, Weapon Proficiency, weight, and some other things). This is the only DM we've had that follows the rules to the book. Envirnment: If you've ever read up on Beholders (I'm not saying you should have or anything, just saying), you might remember that it says that beholders use their Disinegrate Rays to make it's home, usually in some highland where it's hard to get into. The cave that it makes consists mainly of vertical and parallel tunnels. Everything made by the Disinegrate Rays are smooth. So, thanks for the idea, but there's little envirnmental protection in the cave. The only things that can protect us are the Eggs, Egg Nest, and the big Pile of Gold.
Illithid13 12-14-05, 12:54 PM	I can't wait till your bard trys something with magic and the beholders open their center eyes... Bard- I cast fly, DM- you know something should have happened, but nothing does... Bard- Oh :censored: Now to the advice: Talk to the bard and try to talk some common sense into her, do it with the other 2 (or 3 if you want to include him in your stratigy session) and tell her to please act rationally. Destroying the eggs is a sure fire way of being killed, or probably desinigrated... Realisticly, talking is the only way to get yourselves out of this in good shape. But also, from everything else that I've read, be glad that you DM is inexperienced, or seems to be. There is a signifigant difference about a DM who knows the potential of a beholder, and one that can actually use it. I'd hope that if you DM is gearing for the fight, that he is ready to fudge in the party's favor or rolls very poorly. If not, and you guys end up in combat with the beholders, at best, you'll have 1 or 2 people survive, and at worst, TPK. Who knows... this could be some low level wizzards that are using a magical guise to make it look like a beholder (though the setting doesn't sound like that is the case.) And if it is a TPK due to gross incompitance and party discord, take your rogue buddy and find a new group. Let us know what happened. P.S. Your half-bro's favored enemie is abberations. That is the beholder's type.
shadowfox628 12-14-05, 05:53 PM	Thanks for all support, plans, info, ect. ect. Tomorrow is judgement day, and I will post my findings..... Probibly in a new topic, just to tell everyone what happened. I'll take notes (or try to) about the session, and I'll report who (if anyone, hopefully the Cleric) dies. Again, thank you all for support, info, ect.... I just hope my character lives.
solbergb 12-14-05, 07:32 PM	Gads, this is a textbook case for "why campaigns should start at 1st level unless everyone knows how to play". That party is a TPK waiting to happen against ordinary foes, much less something as unforgiving as beholders on their home ground. If you want to survive, try to talk your way out, cause that party sure as hell isn't going to fight its way out. If you want an object lesson, let nature take its course and have the beholders rip you guys into tiny pieces (or piles of dust, or stone statues, or enthralled slaves or any of the other lovely effects the beholders are capable of)
Illithid13 12-15-05, 10:32 AM	a thought occured to me last night. Maybe Your DM put you guys in this situation for a reason... It is possible that he wants to give you guys a lesson in team work, and after a TPK, he'll say that you all wake up from a cold sweet from a communal nightmare that you could have sworn was real. This might be his way of saying "hey, you guys need to get your act together." If he's been around as long as you say, then maybe he's trying to teach you something.
Kalrin 12-15-05, 10:55 AM	Well... I don't know how you're going to manage it, but you could try one of my trademark solutions for problems that don't appear to be immediatly solvable: Drop a Mountain on it. This is expedited by the fact that you're in a cave already. Roll with it. There isn't much that can survive several tons of rock on it. :)
HalfSlothHalfCamel 12-15-05, 12:08 PM	That was my first thought when I read this. You are in a cave, use your thunderstones creatively, or use some magic, or items or what to cause a cave in. Crush those big eyeball freaks. Even if you and your party cant work together, this should still be somewhat easy to figure out.
Bane 12-15-05, 04:19 PM	There's always taking one for the team. Except you don't want to do that. Thus, make the team take one for you. Do not lead the way into the caves. Instead, guard the rear. Throw the last person other than you down the hole to get into the cave, and run while they're all panicking. Have your character move to a different town, and use a different identity. In other words, screw the party, you're saving yourself. The DM may decide to kick you out of the group after this. That's ok, you deserve it for metagaming.
shadowfox628 12-15-05, 06:32 PM	First, I'd like to state that my group has already ENTERED the cave, went down the tunnels, got to the money, and is currently being trapped in a 30-ft wide room with at least one Beholder in the only way out (a second is somewhere in the caves). Bad News: Well, not for me. Our DM canceled our session today due to lack of people (he WOULD have done it, but the Cleric decided, right after telling me he was probibly going to do it, that he wasn't going). So, one more week to plot, one more week for all of you to onder either how to win, how we're going to die, or both.