Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Atirakis 09-02-06, 09:02 PM	Being a PC doesn't actually take that much time. This was posted on a debate I am having over on the DM boards. My position is that being a PC means that you are in character and otherwise preoccupied with your character for a good deal of each session. My opposition then stated the above quote. So is it really so easy to be a PC? Would you have enough time to be your PC to the best of your ability and do something else, like play another PC? What about 3? Note: I am talking about at the same time in the same session.
TLomon 09-02-06, 09:13 PM	I know exactly what you are referring to. This boils down to style of play. Is the campaign a meaningless series of combats, and plays out more like a game of tactics instead of in depth roleplaying? If so, it could work... it is boring, but it could work. (If I wanted to play a computer game, I would play a computer game.) However, if your game focuses on roleplaying, I believe it seriously detracts from the depth of your character. The closest to two characters we ever game to was allowing players to roleplay their familiars. So, the correct answer is that there is no correct answer. It depends on the style of play on if it detracts from the game or not.
Vaalingrade Ashland 09-02-06, 09:44 PM	How to 'Win' the Internet Tip #123: Retreat to a different forum and post out of context for validation.
Piggyfreak6 09-02-06, 11:22 PM	I think, that compaired to being a DM, being a PC is so much easier! Could I play 2 PC's in the same game, I think so. 3 may be a bit much, because of the roleplaying porposes. I think it would be interesting to play Twin PCs that have exact opposite classes, and they are bound together by an unbreakable chain. So like 1 would be a fighter and the other would be a wizard. Or one would be a Druid and the other would be a Cleric. One could be a Rouge and the other a Bard. Just a fun Idea to play with.
Hakar_Kerarmor 09-03-06, 12:35 AM	It sure takes a lot less time than being a DM, I can tell you.
Voran 09-03-06, 12:50 AM	Plus when you leave the table at the end of the game, you can stop thinking alot about your character until the next session, whereas the DM has that time to plan...well..the next session.
highbulp 09-03-06, 12:56 AM	Well DMs have to do it all the time. They have to run 2, 3, 10, 20, or 50 NPCs at a time. All of these can have names, personalities, builds, and so on. Each of them has to make a decision every round of combat. Each of them has to be able to respond to something someone else says. And on top of running all these guys, the DM also has to arbitrate any other rules that come up, design a story and adventure, and be overall entertaining.
Bulletproof_Condom 09-03-06, 02:03 AM	You can play more than one PC. Roleplaying isn't something that you can time. That's like asking how much time you spend urinating. You don't really track it, you just do it when the time comes. I don't think anyone is capable of staying in their character the whole time. No actor shoots a movie all at once.
Atirakis 09-03-06, 03:12 AM	Ok to give you some context the debate is... Can you be a DM and be doing everything a DM has to do while at the same time be a PC with all the things you need to be doing and thinking about as a PC? Note: We arent debating the merits of DMPCs or anything like that, simply do you have enough time and focus for both?
Yaeri 09-03-06, 06:04 AM	Would you have enough time to be your PC to the best of your ability and do something else, like play another PC? Ah, clear question. Clear answer: yes. What about 3? Same answer here. Note: I am talking about at the same time in the same session. To me there's one major difficulty here, and that is keeping the two PC's apart, being able to quickly switch from the personality of the first to the personality of the second (or third, etc...). Though it would be harder for me to play two PC's at once as compared to one, it is entirely possible. When I DM, I face this exact same difficulty with the lot of NPC's I have to run. I have to be able to not mix up their personalities, thoughts, etc....
Yaeri 09-03-06, 06:10 AM	Ok to give you some context the debate is... Can you be a DM and be doing everything a DM has to do while at the same time be a PC with all the things you need to be doing and thinking about as a PC? Note: We arent debating the merits of DMPCs or anything like that, simply do you have enough time and focus for both? Yes. One extra character to take care of. There are a lot of minor NPC's who don't require my full effort to portray, but I do my best to portray all major NPC's to my fullest capability.
Hakar_Kerarmor 09-03-06, 02:25 PM	Ok to give you some context the debate is... Can you be a DM and be doing everything a DM has to do while at the same time be a PC with all the things you need to be doing and thinking about as a PC? Note: We arent debating the merits of DMPCs or anything like that, simply do you have enough time and focus for both? Yes I can. I've had no problems with this at all.
Atirakis 09-03-06, 02:39 PM	And the brutal reality remains that it takes no more time to play a PC than it takes to play a tiny fraction of your other characters. Other characters being NPCs Also how can you be every NPC plus your own PC?
Melayl 09-03-06, 02:50 PM	Also how can you be every NPC plus your own PC? It is no different than running all the NPC's. You just do what you need to do for each when the time comes. I've personally never had a problem with it. BC pretty much says it all: You can play more than one PC. Roleplaying isn't something that you can time. That's like asking how much time you spend urinating. You don't really track it, you just do it when the time comes. I may have to add that to my sig...
ornitholestes 09-03-06, 03:02 PM	As for being a DM and PC: I personally am not able to do this Now a player running 2 or 3 PCs in the campaign can work out quite well. It works best if you have multiple parties who, while acting on the same world, rarely interact with each other directly. Obviously it can get confusing (for the player and DM) when 1 player is controlling two characters at the same time. Though again I know people who have made it work.
CYMRO 09-03-06, 04:57 PM	Other characters being NPCs Also how can you be every NPC plus your own PC? This is like asking how can you play the BBEG when you are playing all those other NPCs? or How can you play that friendly priest when you are playing all of those villains and monsters?
Yaeri 09-03-06, 05:09 PM	Also how can you be every NPC plus your own PC? From someone like you, who sais DM's cannot play PC's only NPCS, I can only read that question as "how can you be every NPC plus your own NPC?" The answer to that would be, by being every NPC, you already are your own NPC, as that one is included in "every NPC".
Atirakis 09-03-06, 05:59 PM	From someone like you, who sais DM's cannot play PC's only NPCS, I can only read that question as "how can you be every NPC plus your own NPC?" The answer to that would be, by being every NPC, you already are your own NPC, as that one is included in "every NPC". But doesnt thinking of one NPC as your own and thusly giving him alot more face time take away from your other NPCs as well as your DM duties in general?
highbulp 09-03-06, 06:08 PM	But doesnt thinking of one NPC as your own and thusly giving him alot more face time You assume one leads to the other. Which is not necessarily the case. Having some kind of attachment to an NPC doesn't mean they get more "face time" or detract from other NPCs (who you may also have an attachment too).
Vaalingrade Ashland 09-03-06, 06:09 PM	Doesn't (by your logic) having any amount of characters greater than 1, take away from the other characters as well as your duties as DM in general? Either the DM can't play any characters beyond the first (be it NPC, BBEG, etc), or he can and thus can play any type of characters. You can't have it both ways.
Atirakis 09-03-06, 06:16 PM	An NPC is there when it needs to be and goes away when it is no longer needed. A PC is always there and needs to be role played accordingly.
Drodain 09-03-06, 06:17 PM	It is hard to DM and play a PC at the same time, I had to do it when one of the PC's had to leave early and asked me to play for him. It's especially hard because you only can guess how they would act. It would probably be easier if it was your PC but I still would not want to do it. Being a PC is easy compared to being a DM, that's why I don't love to DM. If a DM could do it and the PCs didn't notice it slowing him down or anything more power to him. I could not.
Vaalingrade Ashland 09-03-06, 06:29 PM	An NPC is there when it needs to be and goes away when it is no longer needed. A paper doll with no emotion or thought beyond the purpose they serve. A badly played character that posesses no meaning and adds nothing to the game.
Atirakis 09-03-06, 06:45 PM	A paper doll with no emotion or thought beyond the purpose they serve. A badly played character that posesses no meaning and adds nothing to the game. They are as well played as any PC when they are around. But unlike a PC they go away when you have other things to do as a DM.
Vaalingrade Ashland 09-03-06, 07:08 PM	Define 'other things'. If there are two characters talking to the party and one speaks -- the other one magically cannot hear or react to the other? MAybe it isn't a character problem with you, but a world problem -- everyone else in the world is meaningless unless they're reading from the script.
highbulp 09-03-06, 07:38 PM	An NPC is there when it needs to be and goes away when it is no longer needed. A PC is always there and needs to be role played accordingly. Unless the group, I don't know, splits up or something. And who says a NPC does nothing while he's not next to the PCs? It's not like the BBEG isn't make plans behind their backs, or the local King isn't making decisions. NPCs can be as deep or as shallow as PCs.
Archmage Atrus 09-03-06, 07:42 PM	Does anyone find it funny that Atirakis retreated to the PC boards and he's now losing his argument? :P
Atirakis 09-03-06, 07:46 PM	Does anyone find it funny that Atirakis retreated to the PC boards and he's now losing his argument? :P Retreated? Losing? Get your facts straight before you spout off your idiotic thoughts.
Archmage Atrus 09-03-06, 07:55 PM	Dude, get off your horse. Most people have agreed that it's possible for a DM to play a dedicated-NPC-whose-terminology-is-questionable. You're the only one still arguing.
Inigo_Montoya 09-03-06, 07:55 PM	A paper doll with no emotion or thought beyond the purpose they serve. A badly played character that posesses no meaning and adds nothing to the game.All of the DM's I've played with are still excellent roleplayers. They can breath life and interesting aspects into virtually every aspect of the game and usually the NPC's are roleplayed with gusto. Some of the NPC's in the game are even more interesting than the players in alot of cases.
Vaalingrade Ashland 09-03-06, 08:12 PM	All of the DM's I've played with are still excellent roleplayers. They can breath life and interesting aspects into virtually every aspect of the game and usually the NPC's are roleplayed with gusto. Some of the NPC's in the game are even more interesting than the players in alot of cases. Same here. Turns out they were sucking as DMs despite the high quality of the games though. Who'd have thunk it? And who says a NPC does nothing while he's not next to the PCs? It's not like the BBEG isn't make plans behind their backs, or the local King isn't making decisions. NPCs can be as deep or as shallow as PCs. They all have to ask the PCs' permission before acting. They also have to ask permission to ask permission.
Cifer 09-03-06, 08:17 PM	Define 'other things'. If there are two characters talking to the party and one speaks -- the other one magically cannot hear or react to the other? I think what is referred to is that when the mysterious quest-giver has handed over the document and vanished and the pcs are suprised by the murderous assassins, the DM doesn't need to concern himself whether the m-q-g is reading a good book at the moment or sitting in a tavern. However, I too believe there is no true problem. There are always those NPCs that are more and those that are less fleshed out.
aotrscommander 09-03-06, 08:34 PM	Would you have enough time to be your PC to the best of your ability and do something else, like play another PC? What about 3? Note: I am talking about at the same time in the same session. Short answer: yes. Playing more than one PC is perfectly possible, and I find myself frequently doing it when someone is away from the group. It's become second nature. Running a second character mechanically is effortless (or should be if you've ever done any DMing), and it's not really any harder RPing. I find that often, one PC (usually one that's not mine) takes a secondary role, only coming into prominence when their speciality is required, or they have some in-character wisecrack to make. In fact it's absolutely no different to running a NPCslashDMPCslashwhatever-the-heck-you-want-to-term-it when DMing (to answer your real question!); again the character takes a secondary role, piping up only occasionally (perhaps to tell the PCs something very blatent they've missed or to advise against something - though I don't really have to do that any more - but more often just to make some witty remark).
Inigo_Montoya 09-03-06, 08:46 PM	again the character takes a secondary role, piping up only occasionally (perhaps to tell the PCs something very blatent they've missed or to advise against something - though I don't really have to do that any more - but more often just to make some witty remark). I agree 100%, generally NPC's that are with the party have some special task to perform or rarely offer more than a skill set and the occasional nudge in the right direction if things are bogging down. I play missing players when I DM as such or we just put them in the bubble.
highbulp 09-03-06, 09:12 PM	They all have to ask the PCs' permission before acting. They also have to ask permission to ask permission. Sorry, I don't follow. Are you saying an NPC has to ask a PC's permission to do everything?
Yaeri 09-04-06, 05:25 AM	But doesnt thinking of one NPC as your own and thusly giving him alot more face time take away from your other NPCs as well as your DM duties in general? No. I don't think there's some mystical barrier of face time for any given character controlled by the DM (Like 2 hours per session, or 40% of game time) ,that when transcended lowers the gaming experience. Sorry, I don't follow. Are you saying an NPC has to ask a PC's permission to do everything? No. He's making fun of something.
KJW 09-04-06, 11:19 AM	I think that the time and focus issue is flawed as a distinction between PCs and NPCs. I run lots of solo campaigns and my NPCs are more developed than the majority of PCs run by my players in my group campaign. If you took it as time and focus then I would be running the equivalent of half a dozen PCs in a solo campaign, which I am not they are all NPCs. Additionally, I have also played multiple PCs as a player and seen it done well a number of time, especially in group campaigns. The distinction like I said in the DM's forum is control, the PCs control the course of the party, they may be advised and supported by NPCs, but this is the distinction. If the NPC controls the course of the party then it is a DMPC, if it advises and supports, but the final decision is held by the PCs then it is a NPC. This is not a judgment on that, but a way of distinguishing between PCs and NPCs. Anyway, just a thought.
Vaalingrade Ashland 09-04-06, 12:24 PM	And characters played by the other players that only advise and support are also NPCs! All real PCs try to dominate the game and force thier will on everyone else! [/sarcasm]
Lana "Silvertongue" 09-04-06, 05:23 PM	Is it possible for a DM to play a PC. Yes. Can he do it well, I bet that varies based off the DM, the character their trying to play and what depth is expected in the world. If you playing 3 people total (DM and 2) then I can understand making the stretch for the DM to get some play and everyone get some game... if you have 5 or 6 players, it is pushing the extent of their own abilities trying to orchestrate a tangled mob.
Atirakis 09-04-06, 06:20 PM	A DM can play a PC... in someone elses game. It is impossible to play a PC in your own game!
Vaalingrade Ashland 09-04-06, 06:34 PM	For something so impossible, seem like a lot of people doing it. Not long ago, it was 'impossible' for man to fly too.
Tytalus 09-04-06, 09:04 PM	Sure, it's possible to play more than one PC at the same time. Is it advisable? Not in my experience. Of course, YMMV, but I've never seen it done in an RP-focused game where it didn't detract from the roleplaying experience. And characters played by the other players that only advise and support are also NPCs! All real PCs try to dominate the game and force thier will on everyone else! [/sarcasm] :rolleyes: Bravo! [/sarcasm]
pres_man 09-04-06, 11:51 PM	Here is another thread going on with a similiar premise, though perhaps being discussed more civilly. http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=696639 Personally, I believe it is possible, though it is hard to keep the characters "real" unless the player has spent a good amount of time fleshing out the characters personality in their mind. There is a very good post on the thread I cited which details some ways to help with keeping characters interesting.
Archangel62 09-05-06, 07:50 AM	It can be quite possible, the question is more on the level of capability of the person. I could theoretically run two characters, maybe three at once in terms of RP. In combat it might get trickier but that's also a matter of the complexity of the situation. If I'm running a friends character then I will be cautious with them, not wanting them to lose their character because of me being an idiot. Very often I can run two at once, the trick is being properly careful for two or more.
Gemstone 09-05-06, 08:30 AM	I regulary used a DMPC for over a year and still does when I see it fit to add a character that I wish to work with the party. Call it whatever you want, but it works for me. I currently run one DMPC in a campaign (A stone giant named Bragner) and an NPC that follows the characters (Sir Roland Evansworth). The big difference between them is that the DMPC is with the players and takes descisions that may differ from the other players, such as Bragner wanting them to go to the mountains instead of the sea and argue his points (not through metagaming though), while the NPC will argue his point, but in the end follow the players for as long as he's usefull. At least in that campaign
TwistedPuppy 09-05-06, 11:30 AM	A DM can play a PC... in someone elses game. It is impossible to play a PC in your own game! Guy, this is the third or fourth thread on this subject, and you've started at least two of them just on the player boards. I submit that you need to take a step back and consider just how important the semantics of a GAME are to you, and if it's really worth the amount of time you appear to be spending on these boards. I don't really care enough about your argument to keep going at it. I consider concepts more important than labels - I've said before my favored term is ally, but I know exactly what VA means and it doesn't bother me that he uses the term within the context he framed.
Atirakis 09-05-06, 12:23 PM	Guy, this is the third or fourth thread on this subject, and you've started at least two of them just on the player boards. I submit that you need to take a step back and consider just how important the semantics of a GAME are to you, and if it's really worth the amount of time you appear to be spending on these boards. I don't really care enough about your argument to keep going at it. I consider concepts more important than labels - I've said before my favored term is ally, but I know exactly what VA means and it doesn't bother me that he uses the term within the context he framed. If it means the difference between someone having a fun enjoyable game and them losing their game and possibly their friends due to bad structure then I will argue this point to the death. DMs are not capable of playing PCs in their own games!
TwistedPuppy 09-05-06, 12:27 PM	If it means the difference between someone having a fun enjoyable game and them losing their game and possibly their friends due to bad structure then I will argue this point to the death. DMs are not capable of playing PCs in their own games! I suggest therapy.
Atirakis 09-05-06, 01:34 PM	I suggest following the rules laid out for a game...
Gemstone 09-05-06, 01:59 PM	I suggest following the rules laid out for a game... And some chose to have their DM play a PC :) Why do you have to argue about it? Care to tell? (or hint me to a post were you do tell)
Atirakis 09-05-06, 02:18 PM	And some chose to have their DM play a PC :) Why do you have to argue about it? Care to tell? (or hint me to a post were you do tell) I only argue against espousing this as a common practice that any DM who longs for the joy of being a PC should try. It will lead to games ending in ruin. Not it might lead to that but rather it will lead to that. Maybe not 100% of the time. Maybe there are a few groups out there that like it, but the majority of the time it will end badly. Its like saying "Me and my friends drive drunk all the time and we like it, how dare you tell me I cant encourage others to do so?" The people who try it might not have bad things happen to them, but its pretty likely that they will. Dont spread bad ideas!
Need_A_Life 09-05-06, 02:19 PM	Being a player is easier than being a GM. The GM has to be in character the entire time, whereas the players aren't always in the spotlight or someone find that they need a break and go get themselves a soda while the game keeps running. When the GM leaves the room, the game comes to a dead stop. Example: This happened two weeks ago. All of this happened more or less at the same time. 1) My sorcerer and a halfling samurai were negotiating the terms for trade between the country I have (and the ones yet to come into my possession) and his trade organisation. [We didn't need GM attention on this]. 2) A grey elf psion was asking around for information concerning the location of an ancient and powerful being [held sacred by my sorcerers people] with which to mindswitch (I swear I won't resurrect him this time). [GM needed to run a few NPCs for him to get the information, he also needed to have the player make fortitude saves when he began walking into the desert unprotected] 3) A goblin Wu Jen/Shifter (from 3.0) investigated a magical phenomenon we had experienced earlier and had an in-depth talk with an emissary of the BBEG (He is later suspected of being infected by a magical disease, spread by the BBEG and is imprisoned) [GM needed to devote himself 100% to this, meaning others had to wait a while]. 4) After being informed about the emissary of the BBEG, our Drow samurai decided to go up there and have a similar talk with the messenger and returns to the group. [GM had to devote time to this, but had already done it once, making it easier on him] 5) After points 2-4 happened, GM had to hear what my character and the halflings character had agreed upon.
Yaeri 09-05-06, 02:44 PM	OP AKA the start of the thread: Would you have enough time to be your PC to the best of your ability and do something else, like play another PC? What about 3? Note: I am talking about at the same time in the same session. Yes. DMs are not capable of playing PCs in their own games! A DM can play a PC... in someone elses game. It is impossible to play a PC in your own game! etc... What exactly is the point? You come asking people if they can play multiple PC's at the same time, actually more if you can play a PC while being DM. The people reply. Then you start posting. "No you can't." "It's impossible." "You can't play a PC while being a DM." "If you think otherwise you're wrong." "If you think otherwise then you're not playing D&D." One small request: If you ever plan to start such threads in the future, please include in the original post that it's impossible, and that people shouldn't bother arguing because you're stating facts. That if they disagree with what you said they're not playing D&D and what not. Then everyone knows they shouldn't bother replying, as they can either just 1) disagree with your facts, with you then always having to repeat yourself that they're wrong and not really playing D&D or making up houserules and the like. 2) agree with your facts. (Pretty trivial as they're facts) ;)
aotrscommander 09-05-06, 02:50 PM	DMs are not capable of playing PCs in their own games! And yet almost everyone has said that is it possible. Yes, it can lead to a game being destroyed, but so can powergaming, low magic, high magic and, yes even roleplaying. As with all these issues, the key is not to be An Arse about whatever aspect you're dealing with. Atirakis, I don't know if you've noticed this, but you're being as intractable (some might even venture closing towards unreasonable) over this issue as Stembolt is being over Low Magic... You may want to reflect on that.
CYMRO 09-05-06, 03:21 PM	I suggest following the rules laid out for a game... Well, mein fuhrer, the rules of the game clearly spell out that the DM and his players adjust the rules so that fun is had by all. DMPCs work well for many groups, despite your loathing the term and the practice. Some of us are able to just have fum , without getting too hung up on whether the entire gaming community is following our Commndments on terminology and style of play.
Archangel62 09-05-06, 03:29 PM	I'm not a fan of DMPCs simply because they are generally difficult to do and can lead to more grief than the group would want or need. However if it works well in your games and your group is fine with it then I say go for it.
Vaalingrade Ashland 09-05-06, 03:34 PM	What exactly is the point? He wanted a 'no' answer to go back to the main thread with as 'evidence' of his overwhelming righteousness and virility. CYMRO, stop with the nazi stuff. Its lost its charm.
Gemstone 09-05-06, 05:05 PM	I only argue against espousing this as a common practice that any DM who longs for the joy of being a PC should try. I haven't seen anyone activly trying to make someone try a DMPC... just people stating their oppinion. What's wrong with testing anyway? It's like testing a low-magic game, testing a game without the fighter... or with another class etc. Its like saying "Me and my friends drive drunk all the time and we like it, how dare you tell me I cant encourage others to do so?" Which is relevant... how? Atirakis, you are a very resonable person and you of all should understand that as with everything this game is made of, there is no way that is the right way to play! Sure, there are games out there with DMPC's who ruin the day, but there are other marvelous games that are fun with DMPC's. I could make a similiar statement: "Me and my friends drive without drivers license all the time and we like it, how dare you tell me I can't..." you get the point? here, I replaced DMPC with drivers license.
Atirakis 09-05-06, 05:21 PM	DMPC implies the ability to be a player in the same game you are DMing. A DM can run an NPC that travels with the party and might still have problems but as long as he refrains from thinking of himself as that character (like PCs do) and instead thinks of himself as the DM it should work out fine.
Drodain 09-05-06, 05:23 PM	Atirakis if you don't like people's answers don't ask the question, it's pretty obvious what the majority thinks. Yet you still believe everyone here is wrong. No one is saying they are right(not that I can see) they all say that it can be done, but to be done you need a DM who is good at it. This basically means "Don't do it unless everyone think's it can be done." Honestly stop getting angry at people. Originally Posted by Atirakis A DM can play a PC... in someone elses game. It is impossible to play a PC in your own game! Wow, is it impossible really? I didn't realize I had broken the laws of nature. COOL!
GDarius 09-05-06, 07:42 PM	Ok, first off, no offense to the poster. I usually don't make light of typos (we all make mistakes), but this just made me chuckle: Could I play 2 PC's in the same game, I think so. 3 may be a bit much, because of the roleplaying porposes. http://nia.ecsu.edu/ureoms2004/teams/noaa/grfx/porpoise.jpg The Roleplaying Porposes want you to play two characters or less!
Drodain 09-05-06, 07:49 PM	I thought it was porpoise... :P
GDarius 09-05-06, 08:20 PM	Blast! My long-planned attempt at humor is foiled!
Inigo_Montoya 09-05-06, 09:35 PM	And yet almost everyone has said that is it possible. I would disagree with you here. I certainly understand the debate and would be on the no DMPC side of it.
Vaalingrade Ashland 09-05-06, 09:40 PM	You disagree with a measurable fact that most of the people here on this thread have said that it's possible? Do you also disagree that the sky is (often) blue?
Atirakis 09-05-06, 09:47 PM	Most of the people here have said that its possible to play 2 or more PCs at the same time, not be a DM and play a PC.
Inigo_Montoya 09-05-06, 09:58 PM	You disagree with a measurable fact that most of the people here on this thread have said that it's possible? Do you also disagree that the sky is (often) blue?A smattering of posts on a forum thread hardly means a general consensus of all D&D players Vaal.:D
Drodain 09-05-06, 10:09 PM	Why does there need to be a general consensus? Honestly, why don't the people who feel the need, or believe they have the ability to do so(be it play more than one PC, or play a DMPC) do so, as long as their group is okay with it. I understand the point of asking people on forums, but in the end what we say here has absolutely nothing to do with your group should you chose so.
Vaalingrade Ashland 09-05-06, 10:26 PM	A smattering of posts on a forum thread hardly means a general consensus of all D&D players Vaal.:D And yet almost everyone has said that is it possible. That wasn't what you disagreed with, Inigo :D
pres_man 09-05-06, 11:03 PM	Most of the people here have said that its possible to play 2 or more PCs at the same time, not be a DM and play a PC. So does this mean that you now believe it is at least possible for a non-DM player to not be in character for a minimum of 60% of the time, and still perform in well done fashion?
Balseraph 09-05-06, 11:42 PM	Can I play a PC while also acting as the DM? Yes. Should I? No.
Dolomite 09-05-06, 11:47 PM	But doesnt thinking of one NPC as your own and thusly giving him alot more face time take away from your other NPCs as well as your DM duties in general? I smell bait in the water, on this one and since this is a part of an arguement that was started in the DM's forum that he was proably losing I will say like Admiral Ackbar Master Rouge: "It's A TRAP!!" That's it I am out.
Atirakis 09-05-06, 11:51 PM	Why dont you go read the thread and tell me who is or isnt losing. And I came here to find out what players thought of the trivialized light that PCs were being painted in.
Vaalingrade Ashland 09-06-06, 12:15 AM	I will say like Admiral Ackbar Master Rogue: "It's A TRAP!!" That's it I am out. A trap would imply competence. Its a tarp.
Atirakis 09-06-06, 12:25 AM	and reported...
Hakar_Kerarmor 09-06-06, 12:53 AM	But doesnt thinking of one NPC as your own and thusly giving him alot more face time take away from your other NPCs as well as your DM duties in general? Funny you should mention that. You see, it's not my PC that I'm most attached to in our current game, but a NPC. A NPC lupinal called Myrmia, who is posing as a Illumian seeking knowledge. She's already sent the pc's on one quest, and will do so again, to retrieve books and information from Hard-to-Reach Places(tm). In reality, she is merely looking for information on an artifact called the Cosmic Forge, which she plans to use to change reality, killing herself in the process. I see Myrmia as my own more than I see my PC as my own, and she gets more face time than most other NPC's I creature, so does she take away from my other NPC's as well as my DM duties? I think not.
Atirakis 09-06-06, 01:02 AM	But your PC is still playing in your world. Thats not fair to the rest of the PCs unless you let them in on all of the knowledge they have and let them make decisions as to what happens in the world.
Gemstone 09-06-06, 02:55 AM	But your PC is still playing in your world. Thats not fair to the rest of the PCs unless you let them in on all of the knowledge they have and let them make decisions as to what happens in the world. If you avoid to meta-game, which most DM can (as we have to, else the story doesn't keep flowing), then this shoulnd't be a problem
Yaeri 09-06-06, 06:21 AM	On the subject of "what most people said" (taking the various DMPC threads into account, not just this one) I think this best approaches the most voiced opinions: Can I play a PC while also acting as the DM? Yes. Should I? No.
Hakar_Kerarmor 09-06-06, 10:38 AM	But your PC is still playing in your world. Thats not fair to the rest of the PCs unless you let them in on all of the knowledge they have and let them make decisions as to what happens in the world. Why? My pc knows no more than they do, broadly speaking. My PC knows as little about the Cosmic Forge as the other pc's in the party, and likely never will know more than them.
Drodain 09-07-06, 05:47 PM	You all seem to assume that one cannot differentiate between personal knowledge and character knowledge. I am not saying everyone can, nor everyone will. But some people are able to do so in which case there is absolutely no problem as long as the DM does not favor his own character. You say that everyone else needs to know everything to be fair, but that's not necessarily true. I have to think out the puzzles I know as a character or if I can't do that, just don't participate at all, and only reveal the answer if it is taking up way to much game time.
Thanatos-Omega 09-08-06, 12:54 PM	From and DM and Player lemme go at it logically Player side: I've played under the same DM for many a year and in most cases our group has had a "whatever you wanna call it" run by our DM who is a close friend. Problems? nope. why? ironically we all understand one another and generally play for fun, meta gaming is avoided at all costs and having all veterans we know what is and is not good for the group. Heck we caught him slipping and called him on it, what did he do shockingly apologized for almost killing it, we took a break to let him relax and recompose and we carried on with a very fun session. It's hard being a DM as players we need not jump on a poor guy or Gal for slipping instead let em know I find i avoids conflict and these sorta threads. From The DM Side I DM for 3 seperate teams of mixed experiance levels frankly I find I'm not really attached to any NPC or ally or DMPC neither are my players, DO I own them, or overshadow my players? no i just have "my Guys" as the teams call em -which before you flame mean means "characters designed by TO" nothing more- Have I almost slipped Well yeah DMing is taxing sometimes. I catch myself and call a break to reset my mind. My Players seem to be more attached to My NPc's rather then me, last time one died saving a PC in a out of the blue moment, the players nearly tore my head off, why? I honetly don't know when they first met he swore he'd save them with his life. So doing so seemed proper and honorble - and more importantly In Character for him- to me, my players apparently liked him too much, but there in lies my enjoyment creating believeable NPC's or whatever. Forgive me If i think I ran that particular encounter well judging by my players reactions. Look Short answer, CAN YOU? Yes, SHOULD YOU? Depends, I strongly think that everyone deserves to try and see if they as a DM or Player can handle it just like everything else in life. a DM's players should be aware of this and if they find him or her slipping tell em and work it out truthfully. same for players if they think they can handle 2 PC's go for it but if the dm,sees them starting to ditract from everyones enjoyment then call em on it. If you can't handle it cool but don't go saying that no one can ever even try or it's bad cause honestly I don't think anyone on this thread would back that statement up. Seriously though it's a fracking game all teams play very differently and every DM has their own style Vaal and I may share some ideas of how to DM but at the same time I might oppose some of his teams ways, not out of spite cause i think he wrong but Because we are all different, every team has it's own favored style, it's own likes and dislikes. You cannot mandate to anyone how to play their own games Doing so just paints you as some ignorant person in all honesty. I was told By my players to ask myself one thing Is everyone enjoying this? if i could honetly answer yes then to hell with normal rules all i care about is my players enjoyment, and all my DM cares about is the same thing. Lets hope we can avoid these senseless threads in the future. and yeah for the record i have been reading all your DMPc threads OP so i can see the motives behind this one as well as Vaal already stated lets leave well enought alone.