Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Pudge_is_cute 01-21-08, 03:01 AM	Well, we have an experienced DM that takes care of all the stuff in and out game, but recently he got addicted to this MMORPG(R.F online) and he farms a lot to get that red robot or something so his DM schedule's are halted. The game halted when the group is planning to go to Baldurs gate and check out candlekeep for more information on our quest. Meanwhile, a player in the group who reads a lot the DM guide a lot volunteered to take his post and assume's as the DM for 2 weeks now, he is more aggresive than our true DM but somehow we manage through all of his encounters and reach Baldurs gate in one piece. When we arrive, he have no idea what kind of city baldur's gate is so we are stuck and cannot progress unless the true D.M starts to D.M us again. So instead some of our players goes in an arena to earn money, after a couple of rounds the game is called off. Anyways on the third week, out of the blue a thieves guild ambushed in Baldurs gate in the night, a lot of us are netted non-lethally damaged. The paladin has killed one of the enemies when one of the thieves got the wizard and threatens to kill her(coup de grace since she is helpless), so we have no choice but to surrender. The paladin and a ranger of ours are still awake and their legs are tied to balls and chains and thrown into the oceans after we are looted of all items while the remaining 3 members of the group are coup de grace and thrown into the ocean too. Somehow the ranger and the paladin manage to escape the manacles and retrieve the bodies. So what happens is all of us are all itemless and moneyless and spellbookless for the entire session. We somehow reported to the city-guards(the fireknives) about the incident but somehow they have no idea how the thieves guild operate in the city and we are left on our own devices. Good for us, the temporary D.M had let a merchant resurrect us in return to guard his caravan up to Calimshan after 1 week. All of us are again alive and itemless and yeah... you know that. Plus when we reported to the DM, that game is well verified and approved. Now here's what I know, Baldurs gate is large city but according to what I read, it is a peacefull and well guarded city and those who do evil are punished harshly and if ever escape will be actively seeked(according to wikipedia since the DM is still having trouble giving us the forgotten realms book). The port is not guarded, the city has no curfew and thieves can do that to us with no one witnessing? That is pretty messed up. So here we are now doing meager work in Baldurs gate at the same time trying to self investigate and track that damn thieves guild on our own. With little to no weapon and our wizard utterly useless in the process. So have our game run just fine and is valid in game or is there something wrong and must be replayed again?
Chrono Nexus 01-21-08, 03:20 AM	I don't know the module/setting well. But I think aggressive DM is either downplaying the situation to the true DM, or he's lying to you. Either way, I'd quit. This sounds like railroading to the max.
Pudge_is_cute 01-21-08, 04:26 AM	What do you mean by railroading and what incident in where the so called railroading happened? And what do you mean by downplaying the situation to the true DM, excuse for my ignorance but can you explain and dumb it down more.:( Either way, we are not using any module and the adventure is self designed by the D.M and the setting is in the Forgotten Realms.
Guardian1 01-21-08, 10:53 AM	Yeah, this is not possible. The thieves guild in Baldur's Gate would have to be extremely powerful and organized for the thieves to do what the OP describes without some form of retribution coming down on them. Baldur's Gate is one of the largest and most powerful city-states on the Sword Coast (Faerun's eastern coast) (Faerun is the continent in which Forgotten Realms is set) and as such, it has a very good army and a very good city watch. The city-state is also economically important to Faerun, so trade is absolutely vital. Besides, a member of the Seven Sisters resides nearby. The Seven Sisters are an organization of seven very powerful female arcane and divine spellcasters and are all sisters by blood. They are firm opponents of evil and I highly doubt they would let a thieves guild get this powerful. Another reason I think this is not possible is because one of the Faerunian gods, Helm (the god of guardians) (LN), views Mask (the god of thieves) (CE), as an annoying nuisance and seeks to stamp out his activities whenever possible. Besides the worship of Tyr, the LG God of Justice, and Torm, the LG God of Paladins are strong in that region of the Sword Coast. The three gods I've just mentioned work together, and all three have much influence in that part of the Sword Coast. Here's my last reason for doubting the validity of this situation. The Weave. The Weave is alot like the Force in Star Wars, only the Weave is maintained by the goddes of Magic. To some extent, she and the Weave are the same thing. For magic spells and items for function, they must be able to tap into the Weave. For a thieves guild to operate like the OP describes, they would require unretricted access to a powerful mage, and something like that would light up like a Christams tree. Besides, the goddess of magic has recently died, and magic in the realms is still kind of wonky from that event. So yeah, something's fishy here. Before your next gaming session, I would obtain a copy of the setting's rule book and have the DM read the section on Baldur's Gate. It is DM's perogative to stray from the official version of an established setting a little bit, but this is just too much. Something's fishy in the city-state of Baldur's Gate, and it ain't the city docks. This sounds very much like railroading to me.
Chaos_Rat 01-21-08, 01:00 PM	Yes, completely possible. See Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting page 225 under the heading Baldur's Gate. there is a "well-run" thieves guild and it has "relations" with the 4 grand dukes of Baldur's Gate. Think of it like the Mob or Gangs in NYC or Chicago.
DrMorganes 01-21-08, 01:23 PM	I'm throwing in with Chaos_Rat on this one. Not only is this possible, it's entirely plausable! A large city like Baldur's Gate is going to have criminal elements. Some of those elements will be petty footpads, others will be part of a more powerful organization. See, the thing with organizations in general and thieves' guilds in particular is that they tend to be difficult to completely eliminate. They don't need to take on the city guard - they just need to gain control over the person who controls the city guard. *poof* most trouble with the Watch is solved thanks to an embarrassing secret and/or a little enchantment magic. Besides, dumping a few corpses into the harbor isn't exactly a major CIA operation. Magic wouldn't even be required. An "accident" with a donkey cart would provide a perfect means of transporting dead or unconscious adversaries to the harbor for disposal. The wheel falls off, the cart tips over, and weighted bodies sink to the bottom unnoticed while the thieves make a show of retrieving their "goods" from the water. And that's assuming they even want to make a big deal of it. It wouldn't take much to slip a body into the harbor while the harbor guard is in a different area, perhaps detaining a suspicious-looking drunk who insists he's just misplaced his keys... As far as Mystra actively intervening in the affairs of organized crime... she has better things to do. Mystra's portfolio is spells, magic, and maintaining the Weave. Though Neutral Good, she's far more concerned with making sure magic works and that the Weave is intact than how mortals actually use the magic. Were she concerned overmuch with the day-to-day good vs evil applications of magic, the Red Wizards of Thay would have been wiped from the face of Faerun ages ago. Now if this guild were actively seeking a way to destroy the Weave or to prevent magic from functioning, Mystra would get her followers involved. The the threat were serious enough the guild would likely get a friendly visit from Elminster, Khelban Blackstaff, and/or the other Chosen of Mystra. Beyond that, meh.
Chrono Nexus 01-21-08, 01:26 PM	What do you mean by railroading and what incident in where the so called railroading happened? Railroading is "my way or the highway" style DMing. Sometimes it can be ok (like with groups that aren't internally motivated to adventure), but usually it is not. Many DMs that railroad do so to force the players into a course of action. This can make the game feel very artificial and unexciting. Any accomplishments PCs make feel preordained, and therefore don't matter. The railroading, IMO- would be where the DM... Anyways on the third week, out of the blue a thieves guild ambushed in Baldurs gate in the night, a lot of us are netted non-lethally damaged. The paladin has killed one of the enemies when one of the thieves got the wizard and threatens to kill her(coup de grace since she is helpless), so we have no choice but to surrender. The paladin and a ranger of ours are still awake and their legs are tied to balls and chains and thrown into the oceans after we are looted of all items while the remaining 3 members of the group are coup de grace and thrown into the ocean too. Was the wizard actually helpless? Being entangled only incurs a penalty to dex and ac, and restricts your movement. You are only helpless when unconscious or paralyzed. If the DM insisted she was, he was wrong. And how does the guard not know about any thieves' guild? That's totally wrong. And what do you mean by downplaying the situation to the true DM, excuse for my ignorance but can you explain and dumb it down more.:( Would the true DM really be ok with killing more than half the party and destroying the whole party's equipment? This sounds like BS to me. I can't describe how painstaking it is to gauge encounters for a party with normal treasure, let alone compensating for a party with none. Destroying the whole groups gear and killing the party is one of the most damaging acts a DM could do. 1. It makes the game less fun to play. 2. It makes the game harder to DM (monsters you can face must be weaker). 3. Players will walk. Either way, we are not using any module and the adventure is self designed by the D.M and the setting is in the Forgotten Realms. Well, if your "true" DM is ok with this, I would quit. I don't like it, but I know for a fact that a DnD character is inseparable from his treasure. A fighter without his +1 sword is just a glorified warrior, and a wizard without his spell book is just a smart commoner. Without gear appropriate to your level, the campaign will come grinding to a halt. My guess on what will happen next- you'll spend the next session trying to get your gear back. The thieves guild will attack you again, kill some of you, and the authorities will do nothing. If that kind of thing is fun to you- keep playing. But I wouldn't.
Dragoncat 01-21-08, 05:10 PM	Let's set aside the battle, the city, and the guild for the moment. You are in a metropolis, without any special equipment. Everything you have has been stolen from you, you've lost a level due to resurrect most likely, and some annoying guild has basically been given DM-fiat to beat you up without reprisal. (What level are you, by the way?) What do you do? Craft. Sit down, and explain to the DM "We are without any special equipment, and engage in activities which usually revolve around life-threatening action. Given that we don't have the gear, we'll be settling down in Baldur's Gate, using Craft, Profession, and Perform checks, selling spellcasting services, and doing other odd jobs until we can gain enough capital to regain equipment." Refuse to adventure without gear. Do not pick up plot hooks without the necessary equipment. And use banks to store all money you acquire. Do not, under any circumstances, adventure. During that time, by the way, scry on your old gear. Find the location of the guild. And nuke it from orbit once you are back in business, or simply report it to the authorities.
Nephlite 01-21-08, 05:36 PM	This sounds exactly like Buldars Gate game on PS2... You shoud look for the Elf Song Tavern. They will give you all a dagger to kill some rats that have infested the basement, but you won't get much good right away.` Taking away the spellbook is just wrong though.
CCS 01-21-08, 05:36 PM	Yeah, this is not possible. The thieves guild in Baldur's Gate would have to be extremely powerful and organized for the thieves to do what the OP describes without some form of retribution coming down on them. Baldur's Gate is one of the largest and most powerful city-states on the Sword Coast (Faerun's eastern coast) (Faerun is the continent in which Forgotten Realms is set) and as such, it has a very good army and a very good city watch. The city-state is also economically important to Faerun, so trade is absolutely vital. Besides, a member of the Seven Sisters resides nearby. The Seven Sisters are an organization of seven very powerful female arcane and divine spellcasters and are all sisters by blood. They are firm opponents of evil and I highly doubt they would let a thieves guild get this powerful. Another reason I think this is not possible is because one of the Faerunian gods, Helm (the god of guardians) (LN), views Mask (the god of thieves) (CE), as an annoying nuisance and seeks to stamp out his activities whenever possible. Besides the worship of Tyr, the LG God of Justice, and Torm, the LG God of Paladins are strong in that region of the Sword Coast. The three gods I've just mentioned work together, and all three have much influence in that part of the Sword Coast. Here's my last reason for doubting the validity of this situation. The Weave. The Weave is alot like the Force in Star Wars, only the Weave is maintained by the goddes of Magic. To some extent, she and the Weave are the same thing. For magic spells and items for function, they must be able to tap into the Weave. For a thieves guild to operate like the OP describes, they would require unretricted access to a powerful mage, and something like that would light up like a Christams tree. Besides, the goddess of magic has recently died, and magic in the realms is still kind of wonky from that event. So yeah, something's fishy here. Before your next gaming session, I would obtain a copy of the setting's rule book and have the DM read the section on Baldur's Gate. It is DM's perogative to stray from the official version of an established setting a little bit, but this is just too much. Something's fishy in the city-state of Baldur's Gate, and it ain't the city docks. This sounds very much like railroading to me. Sorry Guardian1, but as a DM I just have to laugh at you for this post. Although you do have a good grasp of what the official books say on the subjects of Baldurs Gate etc, the only time you're actually right is in this tiny bit; "It is the DM's perogitive to stray from the official version of an established setting" And yeah, I realize I only quoted part of your sentance there. It's intentional. See, we DM's can do whatever we desire with the info (be it rules or otherwise) WoTC provides. We can use it verbatum, we can alter it by a little or a lot, we can even ignore it completely.... You name it. Anything. :) So the fact that you're clutching some book, that says something contrary to how another DM ran something, & want to wave it around? Means nothing. Unless you're running a game of your own of course. Then it only means something at your table. As for the topic of railroading? That's a whole different subject.
CCS 01-21-08, 06:02 PM	So have our game run just fine and is valid in game or is there something wrong and must be replayed again? Has your game run just fine? Yes. Yes, because your DM (whoever he is atm) has every right to run a setting anyway they see fit - regardless of what info you find in any book. They can use it as written, they can alter it to any degree they like, or they can ignore it & make up thier own version..... And it's as valid as the next DMs or even Wizards version of it. As to the question of there being "something wrong"? Maybe. Maybe not. The accusation of railroading that others are leveling against your DM is one of "style". It's where the DM has a very linear, 1 2 3 4..... style plot line mapped out that they expect you to follow. And nothing (not even death!) done at one point will prevent you from being drug along the path to the next point. The DM is out to tell a story & the exact characters being used simply aren't relevant. Most often these types of games aren't much fun to be in.... But still, a valid game. As for having to replay it all? No. This isn't a video/PC game. Typically what's done is done - no matter how it turns out. Although it's always possible to reset things to some agreed upon point with the other DM if/when he returns....
Nephlite 01-21-08, 06:27 PM	Now that you see that the DM houseruled nets to make people helpless: I'd buy one. Only a Touch AC to hit. Even with -5 hit from non proficiency: worth it. Makes battle alot easier. If Nets can't than you should get DM to explain why he let other guy do it.
Pudge_is_cute 01-21-08, 07:37 PM	Let's set aside the battle, the city, and the guild for the moment. You are in a metropolis, without any special equipment. Everything you have has been stolen from you, you've lost a level due to resurrect most likely, and some annoying guild has basically been given DM-fiat to beat you up without reprisal. (What level are you, by the way?) What do you do? Craft. Sit down, and explain to the DM "We are without any special equipment, and engage in activities which usually revolve around life-threatening action. Given that we don't have the gear, we'll be settling down in Baldur's Gate, using Craft, Profession, and Perform checks, selling spellcasting services, and doing other odd jobs until we can gain enough capital to regain equipment." Refuse to adventure without gear. Do not pick up plot hooks without the necessary equipment. And use banks to store all money you acquire. Do not, under any circumstances, adventure. During that time, by the way, scry on your old gear. Find the location of the guild. And nuke it from orbit once you are back in business, or simply report it to the authorities. Eeerr... yeah we have been doing jobs, paladin is in the city guards to find out more about the usual criminal activity, the two rangers are basically going around the city to find a glimpse of some guild members, cleric of oghma is doing clerical services, while the wizard..... well she has no spellbooks and just sulks in a corner since she has no spellbooks and no expenses to buy what is needed(said wizard is me). So far I have scry in my spellbook but now its gone, I can't do any God damned thing except use my knowledge checks around things I know(all knowledge has 1 plus 6 bonus because of intel except for arcane). My wizard is a lvl 9 caster and the others are lvl 8, we have lvled up as we arrived in Baldurs gate and as I am about to arrange my spellbook, the incident happened and now we are back to lvl 9 again.:weep: Has your game run just fine? Yes. Yes, because your DM (whoever he is atm) has every right to run a setting anyway they see fit - regardless of what info you find in any book. They can use it as written, they can alter it to any degree they like, or they can ignore it & make up thier own version..... And it's as valid as the next DMs or even Wizards version of it. As to the question of there being "something wrong"? Maybe. Maybe not. The accusation of railroading that others are leveling against your DM is one of "style". It's where the DM has a very linear, 1 2 3 4..... style plot line mapped out that they expect you to follow. And nothing (not even death!) done at one point will prevent you from being drug along the path to the next point. The DM is out to tell a story & the exact characters being used simply aren't relevant. Most often these types of games aren't much fun to be in.... But still, a valid game. As for having to replay it all? No. This isn't a video/PC game. Typically what's done is done - no matter how it turns out. Although it's always possible to reset things to some agreed upon point with the other DM if/when he returns.... Well... I am a calm and collected person but during that time, I try to control my frustration a lot in the ordeal specially when the authorities have no idea that they have a thieves guild inside their city and the our gather info reveals nothing. Yes, we try to use sense motive and rolled high but all of those that we inquire appears to be honest(the city guards too). So we are left on our own devices to self investigate the situation with no items, spellbook, money and whatsoever. The session come's to a grinding halt for about 1 hour with the others talking about what happened and me just quiet trying to think what my wizard will do. Plus we have a debt with this merchant(that I have no idea what his name is) that we must guard his caravan up to Calimshan after one week so well, it's quite hard for us. I even have thoughts of quitting but that is just trying to p**** around so thats a no no. And.... our items cash and other etc. are hard earned for 3-4 months which is long and hard. I thought that is the worse but during the session, a ranger of ours and the cleric(the temporary DM's char) got their items back in a sabatoge operation in an illegal item auction so after that, it makes me think of writing to you guys about it.:( I don't know about you, but I know a D.M is a referree in a game that must be fun. The temporary DM has sadistic tendencies so well, that is what happened. Well it is not fun not able to cast a single spell, all your items looted and your neck slitted and thrown into the ocean in just one session. It's just really and terribly, terribly frustrating. I really like a reset though but I do not know if they will agree, if not I have temptations of asking for a new campaign.
Pudge_is_cute 01-21-08, 07:52 PM	Railroading is "my way or the highway" style DMing. Sometimes it can be ok (like with groups that aren't internally motivated to adventure), but usually it is not. Many DMs that railroad do so to force the players into a course of action. This can make the game feel very artificial and unexciting. Any accomplishments PCs make feel preordained, and therefore don't matter. The railroading, IMO- would be where the DM... Okey now I get it, thanks for that. Was the wizard actually helpless? Being entangled only incurs a penalty to dex and ac, and restricts your movement. You are only helpless when unconscious or paralyzed. If the DM insisted she was, he was wrong. And how does the guard not know about any thieves' guild? That's totally wrong. What happened is that we are ambushed in a corner of the street in the middle of the night(is there a curfew in Baldurs gate?), the thieves netted half of the party and 4 archers are in a ready position to fire at me(the wizard) if ever I try to cast a spell. I only have a dex of 14 and a strenght of 10 so I have little to no chance to escape. I try escape artist but my luck is terrible and is withheld in position, the other thieves tumble's and backstabs me and the other one clobber me with a sap so I was knocked unconcious. After that my items are all looted and my neck is slitted and thrown into the ocean with no one witnessing it in the docks. A metropolis still got people in the docks at the middle of the night either because of trade(since baldurs gate is a trade port), and also there are those tourist and lovers am I right? Would the true DM really be ok with killing more than half the party and destroying the whole party's equipment? This sounds like BS to me. I can't describe how painstaking it is to gauge encounters for a party with normal treasure, let alone compensating for a party with none. Destroying the whole groups gear and killing the party is one of the most damaging acts a DM could do. 1. It makes the game less fun to play. 2. It makes the game harder to DM (monsters you can face must be weaker). 3. Players will walk. I was thinking of walking out but that is like being a p**** so I am still in the game and try to see if I can do something to do justice. If all else fail I will reroll... then... not sure whats next though. Well, if your "true" DM is ok with this, I would quit. I don't like it, but I know for a fact that a DnD character is inseparable from his treasure. A fighter without his +1 sword is just a glorified warrior, and a wizard without his spell book is just a smart commoner. Without gear appropriate to your level, the campaign will come grinding to a halt. My guess on what will happen next- you'll spend the next session trying to get your gear back. The thieves guild will attack you again, kill some of you, and the authorities will do nothing. If that kind of thing is fun to you- keep playing. But I wouldn't. Yeah.... I have that foresight already that's why I try to ask help from you guys.
Dragoncat 01-21-08, 10:07 PM	Eeerr... yeah we have been doing jobs, paladin is in the city guards to find out more about the usual criminal activity, the two rangers are basically going around the city to find a glimpse of some guild members, cleric of oghma is doing clerical services, while the wizard..... well she has no spellbooks and just sulks in a corner since she has no spellbooks and no expenses to buy what is needed(said wizard is me). So far I have scry in my spellbook but now its gone, I can't do any God damned thing except use my knowledge checks around things I know(all knowledge has 1 plus 6 bonus because of intel except for arcane). Ouch. Now, there are two fields of thought here, as far as I can see. On the one hand, you could stick with the game. We could go on and on discussing strategies to get your items back, use divinations to find the thieves, make enough money to buy a scroll of fabricate and scribe it, or plenty of other measures to acquire more gear. It'll be an uphill battle, though, because it seems that the DM could easily cut off most of your attempts, saying that there is no work/scrolls to buy/whatever else. If you really, really, really want to remain in the campaign, I highly recommend bringing a book with you. If anyone ever asks you to put it down, simply explain how boring it is to be playing a character who cannot realistically do anything. Do so in a logical manner, without accusation or emotion. Simply explain how the fun of the overall game has declined, and that it is insufficient to really keep your interest. If, however, something can salvage the boring quagmire, you might be continuing. No threats, no arguments, just the calm knowledge that you will not stand up for the status quo. The other option is rebellion. The fact that the ranger and cleric have regained their gear either means that the DM is wising up and you will be saved, or he's a fool and the party is hopelessly unbalanced. If you believe the former, see above paragraph. If you think the latter, you're going to have to end it, one way or another. Vote with your abilities, your actions(or lack thereof), or your feet, in that order. Do something drastic, like having the cleric Plane Shift you to Celestia, hang out there for a few months doing research. If that doesn't seem probable, retire. Not in the hang up the character sheet sense, but in the game. Have your wizard join a guild, live out a daily life, do research, meet the locals, participate in the fair, and all those other little bits of ordinary life that we try to escape from in game. And make sure all of it is narrated. Silly? Of course. But so is yanking the rug out from under the party, setting them down on a dish towel, and expecting them to keep their balance. Ultimately, however, if you are bored, just take a break from gaming for a while. Don't do anything dramatic, just tell him that you don't particularly care to show up, as you are getting bored. If the old DM comes back, ask to return, and tell him exactly why you left. Placing my own opinion here, because it'll be a bit of an annoying rant. I say walk, or at least bring that book. Your temporary DM sounds like a fool. The fact that no benevolent organization gives a damn about murder and mayhem in their city is....well, wrong, put simply. Pulling a random ambush against overwhelming forces, and then forcing a debt upon you when you're revived is beyond heavy-handed, it's a power trip. And the fact that he's disabled your character demonstrates that he simply doesn't care if you have fun. This is a game, one in which DM and Player alike come together for recreation. If one individual is preventing another from enjoying the game, that is a problem. It doesn't matter which side of the screen he is on. Whatever action you pick, I wish you the patients and perseverance of the ages. Courage, fellow gamer.
Pudge_is_cute 01-22-08, 03:29 AM	I could try scrying when I got enough money on buying a scroll and a spellbook for it, though I think 1000gp for a finelywrought mirror is hard to obtain in just 1 week and I am sure if he the temporary DM is still the DM, he will try to counter my ways on trying to "borrow" a mirror like that(Me to someone rich or a friendly mystra church: Can I borrow a good mirror to scry on someone please, Said rich man: No), or say that a mirror like that does not exist in said location so I think I need some suggestions and idea's on how to counter something like that. Oooohh.... I just realized that one scroll of scrying cost 700gp for a single one, plus we have just a one week to stay since we have already promised the merchant that resurrects us to guard his caravan. Hell, I have no idea how I can contribute without any money and spell in guarding his caravan. >.< :weep: Or else.... a government in a magical world will surely have wizards or sorcerers in their ranks and of course one of the wizards will have power enough to cast scry. I could ask to borrow their spellbook and use scry to find the one's who are responsible to our demise, in return another evil thieves guild will be ridden on their city. If all else fails and those thieves has those block scry thing, then by the Gods it will be an outrage. I will directly go to the Lords palace and tell how irresponsible and ineffective their city guards is and how rampant the thieves go around their city.:mad:
Guardian1 01-22-08, 07:10 PM	Sorry Guardian1, but as a DM I just have to laugh at you for this post. Although you do have a good grasp of what the official books say on the subjects of Baldurs Gate etc, the only time you're actually right is in this tiny bit; "It is the DM's perogitive to stray from the official version of an established setting" And yeah, I realize I only quoted part of your sentance there. It's intentional. See, we DM's can do whatever we desire with the info (be it rules or otherwise) WoTC provides. We can use it verbatum, we can alter it by a little or a lot, we can even ignore it completely.... You name it. Anything. :) So the fact that you're clutching some book, that says something contrary to how another DM ran something, & want to wave it around? Means nothing. Unless you're running a game of your own of course. Then it only means something at your table. As for the topic of railroading? That's a whole different subject. I understand what you're trying to say, and I do agree with you, looking back on it. I really don't have access to the campaign book at this point, so I can't check the actual description of Baldur's gate. I'll have to take this at face value. But next time, try to take a little bit of a different tone when replying to a post. I am aware that DM's can change the rules if they need to, and I'm not a noob, so please try to communicate in a more civil manner next time. We need a little more civility in this world anyway.
mato_hibiki 01-23-08, 06:52 AM	I had a similar problem with a DM in the past. Had the whole 'DM vs. players' mentality. Bringing a book to read is a good idea, but you could also just pick up a handbook and start looking for a way to either beef up your current character, or start looking for options for the next one. Me? I leaned on my DM, hard. Verbally, naturally. Every time he stripped the group of gear, and then threw us into a fight well and above our ecl WITH gear, I got angry. 'Course, when I get angry, I talk mean. 'Oh, look. A band of vampire slavers. Wow, that's never been done before THREE times in one day. What? Oh, yes, I'd LOVE to walk over there and fight them, but, since I have no gear, an AC of 13, and NO... Unarmed... Fighting ability... I think I'll just slit my own throat instead... Oh darn, can't do that. I don't even have a knife.' But, if you do try the blunt and rude talking, I'd suggest toning it down. Quite a few times, my DM just up and stormed off. Not that anybody in the group MINDED... Fighting level 12 guys with the vampire template while naked can get old after awhile. Nah, your best bet is to ask for advice. When he finally gets your attention, peek your nose over the book, and ask him what he expects you to do. This will usually stop a DM cold, as they're suddenly forced to offer advice to a naked, broke, and helpless character. 90% of the time, if you put nutjob DMs in the PC's shoes, they'd throw a fit and storm out. ... Ideally, this is what will happen, thus freeing you from the tyrant. Like the good RPers say 'life's too short to game with morons.'
Nephlite 01-23-08, 07:23 AM	Oooohh.... I just realized that one scroll of scrying cost 700gp for a single one, plus we have just a one week to stay since we have already promised the merchant that resurrects us to guard his caravan. Hell, I have no idea how I can contribute without any money and spell in guarding his caravan. >.< :weep: Actually, a scroll of Scrying shiould cost 700 + material component: so 1700 for arcane one. The scroll makes the mirror for you. Material component aways included in cost. pg 108 of PHB says so. So just buy a scroll: no mirror needed.
Legdiwena 01-23-08, 02:46 PM	Does a focus item raise cost, not count, or apply 10% of its cost like paying a caster to cast a spell for you? Isn't Baldur's Gate on the West coast of Faerun?
Pudge_is_cute 01-23-08, 07:06 PM	Does a focus item raise cost, not count, or apply 10% of its cost like paying a caster to cast a spell for you? Isn't Baldur's Gate on the West coast of Faerun? Uhhh... yeah, it's that city below Waterdeep and above candlekeep, it's a metropolis according to the Faerun book. Wait, so I need maybe 1700 gp for a scroll cause the mirror shall automatically appear out of nowhere?
Nephlite 01-23-08, 07:28 PM	Uhhh... yeah, it's that city below Waterdeep and above candlekeep, it's a metropolis according to the Faerun book. Wait, so I need maybe 1700 gp for a scroll cause the mirror shall automatically appear out of nowhere? Wait, I read spell wrong. It is a 1000 gp Focus and non-important material stuff. Sorry, I confused it. So yeah, you'll have to buy a mirror. Or Did you cast Arcane Mark on spellbook? If so get a scroll of Drawij's Instant Summons: brings book instantly to you. Cost 1000 gp sappahire though (but that only increased scrolls cost by 1000). Two thins can happen: a. Spell works and spellbook is back b. Spell fails to bring book, but you know who has it that second and where to find them. Cost 3, 275 gp so more expensive (would be cheaper if you had the sappahire), but will work just as good as scry or better.
Pudge_is_cute 01-23-08, 07:37 PM	Wait, I read spell wrong. It is a 1000 gp Focus and non-important material stuff. Sorry, I confused it. So yeah, you'll have to buy a mirror. Or Did you cast Arcane Mark on spellbook? If so get a scroll of Drawij's Instant Summons: brings book instantly to you. Cost 1000 gp sappahire though (but that only increased scrolls cost by 1000). Two thins can happen: a. Spell works and spellbook is back b. Spell fails to bring book, but you know who has it that second and where to find them. Cost 3, 275 gp so more expensive (would be cheaper if you had the sappahire), but will work just as good as scry or better. In what book can you find that spell? I have'nt seen any Drawji's instant summons in the PHB
Legdiwena 01-23-08, 07:51 PM	The creator of the scroll has to provide focus when crafting scroll. It doesn't magically appear when you use scroll, it's energy or whatever is subsumed into the scroll itself.
Nephlite 01-23-08, 08:42 PM	In what book can you find that spell? I have'nt seen any Drawji's instant summons in the PHB pg 225, Drawmij's Instant Summons listed.
Pudge_is_cute 01-23-08, 09:16 PM	pg 225, Drawmij's Instant Summons listed. It's a lvl7 wiz/sor spell, my character can only cast lvl 4. Plus I need it arcane marked with the spell cast on it. Though this spell can be good to retrieve said object on special occasions though.
Nephlite 01-24-08, 12:20 PM	It's a lvl7 wiz/sor spell, my character can only cast lvl 4. Plus I need it arcane marked with the spell cast on it. Though this spell can be good to retrieve said object on special occasions though. I meant, a scroll of it. Scrolls do not care about spellbook/class level. Yes, you have to roll a caster check to use correctly, but you can keep trying till succeed. I asked if you never put your arcane mark on spellbook? I alqays do because who doesn't dooble in their notebook. If you ever did. Than you are golden.
Pudge_is_cute 01-24-08, 07:05 PM	then it means I am golden indeed.:D Okey, if ever I find a wish scroll(if a wish scroll is possible), then all I had to do is to make a caster lvl check to cast that scroll too?
Nephlite 01-24-08, 07:54 PM	then it means I am golden indeed.:D Okey, if ever I find a wish scroll(if a wish scroll is possible), then all I had to do is to make a caster lvl check to cast that scroll too? Yep, scrolls don't care as long as you have neccesary Int Modifier (19 for 9th level spells) and caster check. *The Pun-Pun exploit was using some obscure splatbook and Shapechange scroll.
ravenshrike 01-25-08, 02:41 PM	A well-run thieves guild wouldn't let it's members run around killing relative unknowns(Which to a guild as large as the BG thieves guild the party would be). There would have been the mandatory prerequisite warnings. And if they were going to be doing some killing, they sure as hell wouldn't drown the pally and ranger alive. They'd have slit their throats and been done with it.
Guardian1 01-25-08, 05:05 PM	Yep, scrolls don't care as long as you have neccesary Int Modifier (19 for 9th level spells) and caster check. *The Pun-Pun exploit was using some obscure splatbook and Shapechange scroll. At least one of the splatbooks was Serpent Kingdoms.
Pudge_is_cute 01-25-08, 07:28 PM	A well-run thieves guild wouldn't let it's members run around killing relative unknowns(Which to a guild as large as the BG thieves guild the party would be). There would have been the mandatory prerequisite warnings. And if they were going to be doing some killing, they sure as hell wouldn't drown the pally and ranger alive. They'd have slit their throats and been done with it. Well that is one thing that I am confused as too why he just did'nt kill the paladin and ranger outright so we could just reroll new characters for the game. I am still frustrated, to tell the truth.