Best "Evil" Archer [Archive] - Wizards Community

Best "Evil" Archer [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Vannenrok
06-23-07, 07:47 PM My friend is starting a new campaign with evil PC's and I was wonder what the best actual archer class is.
Holy_Beholder
06-23-07, 08:19 PM Fighter is surprisingly good if you take the right feats, but rogue can be good too. You want to use poison if you are an evil archer, because it is really helpful. If you go with rogue, be able to sneak attack with poison, then leave, if you go with fighter, shoot into melee, with poison. ToB is utterly worthless here, and I haven't had a good look at CW. Ranger is OK too.
Bopple
06-24-07, 01:02 AM Straight fighter or ranger/scout with Swift Hunter feat.
Cleric archer is also a viable option. But it's not as potent as melee cleric.
Rogue does not make a good archer, because it's not easy to deliver sneak-attack with ranged weapon.
Draco Strang
06-24-07, 02:29 PM I would shy away from ranger, as it limits your feat selections. Unless of course, you want that whole "Foehunter" aspect that's fleshed out by the Favored Enemy feature. Of course, you can achieve this with good RP as well.

Fighter would be my default choice for an archer, dipping into Rogue for the sneak attack, skill points, and overall stealth factor. Scout's good too, so long as you don't mind moving around a lot.

If you're gunning for prestige classes, Order of the Bow Initiate is a definite must, since you get sick bonuses to hit and damage that stack with sneak attack.

With regards to your "evil" descriptor, definitely give the Assassin PrC a look. Not only can you use poison, but you can deliver death attacks from a range.
Bopple
06-24-07, 10:11 PM Order of the Bow Initiate is a joke PrC.
Its Ranged Precision works as a standard action, thus you cannot make a full-attack with it.
Don't ever take more than 1 lvl of Order of the Bow Initiate.
Maekrix_Waere
06-25-07, 02:55 AM (snip) You want to use poison if you are an evil archer, because it is really helpful. (snip)

You can use Poison as an Archer of any Alignment.

To the OP:Get the Poison Master feat from Drow of the Underdark. It has no PreReq's, and lets you apply Poison to a Weapon as a Swift Action, without risk of Poisoning yourself. Also get Quick Draw so you can start attacking with Poisoned Arrows in the first round of Combat.

As for Class, go Rogue for Sneak Attack. Take Assassin later.
lint trap
06-25-07, 02:03 PM My favorite archer base class has always been a rogue variant from Unearthed Arcana.
Variant Rogue
The rogue who favors martial training over stealth and cunning can profit if she chooses her fights carefully.
Gain - Bonus feats (as fighter).
Lose - Sneak attack.
Holy_Beholder
06-25-07, 06:24 PM You can use Poison as an Archer of any Alignment.

To the OP:Get the Poison Master feat from Drow of the Underdark. It has no PreReq's, and lets you apply Poison to a Weapon as a Swift Action, without risk of Poisoning yourself. Also get Quick Draw so you can start attacking with Poisoned Arrows in the first round of Combat.

As for Class, go Rogue for Sneak Attack. Take Assassin later.

DMs tend to be more lax about the poison yourself rules when your evil. Also a lot of DMs have some poison=evil issue, and will change alignment. Personally I don't care, but you do have to get used to that sort of thing. Also, try the CharOp boards, they can get all sorts of good things done.
Maekrix_Waere
06-25-07, 09:53 PM Also a lot of DMs have some poison=evil issue, and will change alignment.

Then I will pull out the official 3.5 FAQ and prove them wrong. :D

BTW-The feat is Master of Poisons, not Poison Master.
Ananvil
06-25-07, 10:07 PM Then I will pull out the official 3.5 FAQ and prove them wrong. :D

BTW-The feat is Master of Poisons, not Poison Master.

Rule Zero. If the DM says its evil, then all the FAQs in the world don't help.
Maekrix_Waere
06-25-07, 10:13 PM Rule Zero. If the DM says its evil, then all the FAQs in the world don't help.

Morality is not subject to Rule Zero. Society's Interpretation of Morality is, but actual Morality is not.
trapspringer
06-26-07, 12:15 AM I'd suggest fighter as the strongest simple archer build. That is to say, just take every archery-related feat available to you and spend your cash on dex-boost items and magic arrows.

Poison use strikes me as very optional, but with Poison Master there is no draw back so I can't see it hurting you any. The only real obstacle is you'll need to be a spellcaster to use craft (alchemy) to make your own. Of course any character who is capable of casting spells is a spellcaster, so you could just grab one of those goofy feats from CA that lets you cast two cantrips and a first level spell daily.

So if you're gunna' go that route, you'll be droppin' two feats on poison use. That's not too shabby if you consider that you can force your opponents to make numerous saves in a given round thanks to the prodigious number of attacks archers can pull off at relatively low levels (though from a CO standpoint, thrown weapons would better suit a poison-use build).

So let's say human fighter six, at your relative power peak. That'll give you eight feats out of the box, plus two more if you can use flaws (obvious choices include non-combatant and frail).

_
Point Blank Shot
Precise Shot
Rapid Shot
Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Great Bow*
Improved Initiative
-
Weapon Focus: Great Bow*
_
Coordinated Shot**
_
Weapon Specialization: Great Bow*
_
Woodland Archer***
Ranged Sunder/Pin/Disarm*
_

*Complete Warrior
**Heroes of Battle (I think)
***Races of the Wild

That'll leave you with three attacks at +12 for an average of something like 15 after +2 magic gear. That's 45 damage a round that doesn't care if your target is in melee or even hiding behind a friendly. Woodland Archer boosts your odds of hitting every time you miss, so you're quite likely to hit that 45 damage average, too.

(That's assuming 32pt buy, +2 gloves of Dex, and a +1 Acidic bow; total cost 12,500.)

A wizard actually makes a pretty good archer, but you'll find yourself using more and more ray spells. A Cleric can make use of Zen Archer from CW to minimize MAD and be pretty righteous. A Druid utilizing that same feat and the UA variant that trades wild shape for Monk abilities has similar advantages.
mato_hibiki
06-29-07, 08:39 AM Evil Archer?

That would be that Johnathin Archer from the Mirror universe... He got killed by Mirror Hoshi though... Don't know why you wanna play a dead guy...
Jager Mage
06-29-07, 11:05 AM Order of the Bow Initiate is a joke PrC.
Its Ranged Precision works as a standard action, thus you cannot make a full-attack with it.
Don't ever take more than 1 lvl of Order of the Bow Initiate.

1 Word. Then 2 more. Then 2 more.

Manyshot.
Improved Manyshot.
Greater Manyshot.

That is all.
Bopple
06-29-07, 12:26 PM 1 Word. Then 2 more. Then 2 more.

Manyshot.
Improved Manyshot.
Greater Manyshot.

That is all.
No, not at all.
Ranged Precision is a standard action. So is Manyshot.
You cannot combine two standard actions into one.
Pyro_Azer
06-29-07, 12:32 PM Make an archer that is a coward.

Seriosly make a fighter who is a human. Give him 3 bow feats. Have him use a bow because he is too scared to get into close combat. Also consider taking the run feat. Don't give him melee weapons; only ranged.
Maekrix_Waere
06-29-07, 02:22 PM The only real obstacle is you'll need to be a spellcaster to use craft (alchemy) to make your own.

Or you can be a non-spellcaster who has ranks in Craft(Poisonmaking) from the CAd.
dogolopee
06-29-07, 03:34 PM Be really evil and tie kittens to end of each arrow...
archerpwr
06-29-07, 04:37 PM To the OP: Scout 4/ Ranger 16 is what you want. Greater manyshot + Improved skirmish is going to do boatloads of damage. Grab a splitting bow from champions of ruin for more fun.
Jager Mage
06-30-07, 06:26 AM No, not at all.
Ranged Precision is a standard action. So is Manyshot.
You cannot combine two standard actions into one.

OH BLOODY H**L!!!!

Now I have to tell my DM of this fact, which means I can't do it anymore.
Blast.
Sylian
06-30-07, 12:22 PM Jager, or you could ask him to house-rule it in.
trapspringer
06-30-07, 08:35 PM Or you can be a non-spellcaster who has ranks in Craft(Poisonmaking) from the CAd.

Well, problem solved.

I wouldn't want to run into that character.

"Ok, so I hit for 20 damage."
"Is that all, psh. I though you said your build was good."
"Oh, and make five fort saves or take 10d6 dex damage."
Board_Rider
06-30-07, 11:38 PM I like the Cleric/Rogue/Assassin builds. Some of the spells that were introduced in Complete Adventure made the Assassin, at range, downright lethal.

Variants Wizard levels/Ninja builds are nice too.
MikeN
07-01-07, 01:47 AM Sublime Ur-Theurge works quite well as an archer:

Bard7/Mindbender1/Ur-Priest2/SublimeChord2/MysticTheurge8
_______

Or just cleric of an evil deity or cause.
Maekrix_Waere
07-01-07, 02:44 AM Well, problem solved.

I wouldn't want to run into that character.

"Ok, so I hit for 20 damage."
"Is that all, psh. I though you said your build was good."
"Oh, and make five fort saves or take 10d6 dex damage."

Actually, the best thing I could think of would be a Master Thrower who specialized in throwing vials of Black Lotus Extract...That's Contact poison that does 3d6 Con/3d6 Con. (DC 35 to make, cost 4,500gp) With the splash... :eek:
trapspringer
07-01-07, 11:35 PM The price tag is a bit prohibitive.

Good tactic for RBBEGs, though.
lint trap
07-02-07, 11:29 AM Actually, the best thing I could think of would be a Master Thrower who specialized in throwing vials of Black Lotus Extract...That's Contact poison that does 3d6 Con/3d6 Con. (DC 35 to make, cost 4,500gp) With the splash... :eek:

Or just use Minor Creation to make Black Lotus Extract for free. It is, after all, a "nonmagical, unattended object of nonliving, vegetable matter."

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Vannenrok 06-23-07, 07:47 PM	My friend is starting a new campaign with evil PC's and I was wonder what the best actual archer class is.
Holy_Beholder 06-23-07, 08:19 PM	Fighter is surprisingly good if you take the right feats, but rogue can be good too. You want to use poison if you are an evil archer, because it is really helpful. If you go with rogue, be able to sneak attack with poison, then leave, if you go with fighter, shoot into melee, with poison. ToB is utterly worthless here, and I haven't had a good look at CW. Ranger is OK too.
Bopple 06-24-07, 01:02 AM	Straight fighter or ranger/scout with Swift Hunter feat. Cleric archer is also a viable option. But it's not as potent as melee cleric. Rogue does not make a good archer, because it's not easy to deliver sneak-attack with ranged weapon.
Draco Strang 06-24-07, 02:29 PM	I would shy away from ranger, as it limits your feat selections. Unless of course, you want that whole "Foehunter" aspect that's fleshed out by the Favored Enemy feature. Of course, you can achieve this with good RP as well. Fighter would be my default choice for an archer, dipping into Rogue for the sneak attack, skill points, and overall stealth factor. Scout's good too, so long as you don't mind moving around a lot. If you're gunning for prestige classes, Order of the Bow Initiate is a definite must, since you get sick bonuses to hit and damage that stack with sneak attack. With regards to your "evil" descriptor, definitely give the Assassin PrC a look. Not only can you use poison, but you can deliver death attacks from a range.
Bopple 06-24-07, 10:11 PM	Order of the Bow Initiate is a joke PrC. Its Ranged Precision works as a standard action, thus you cannot make a full-attack with it. Don't ever take more than 1 lvl of Order of the Bow Initiate.
Maekrix_Waere 06-25-07, 02:55 AM	(snip) You want to use poison if you are an evil archer, because it is really helpful. (snip) You can use Poison as an Archer of any Alignment. To the OP:Get the Poison Master feat from Drow of the Underdark. It has no PreReq's, and lets you apply Poison to a Weapon as a Swift Action, without risk of Poisoning yourself. Also get Quick Draw so you can start attacking with Poisoned Arrows in the first round of Combat. As for Class, go Rogue for Sneak Attack. Take Assassin later.
lint trap 06-25-07, 02:03 PM	My favorite archer base class has always been a rogue variant from Unearthed Arcana. Variant Rogue The rogue who favors martial training over stealth and cunning can profit if she chooses her fights carefully. Gain - Bonus feats (as fighter). Lose - Sneak attack.
Holy_Beholder 06-25-07, 06:24 PM	You can use Poison as an Archer of any Alignment. To the OP:Get the Poison Master feat from Drow of the Underdark. It has no PreReq's, and lets you apply Poison to a Weapon as a Swift Action, without risk of Poisoning yourself. Also get Quick Draw so you can start attacking with Poisoned Arrows in the first round of Combat. As for Class, go Rogue for Sneak Attack. Take Assassin later. DMs tend to be more lax about the poison yourself rules when your evil. Also a lot of DMs have some poison=evil issue, and will change alignment. Personally I don't care, but you do have to get used to that sort of thing. Also, try the CharOp boards, they can get all sorts of good things done.
Maekrix_Waere 06-25-07, 09:53 PM	Also a lot of DMs have some poison=evil issue, and will change alignment. Then I will pull out the official 3.5 FAQ and prove them wrong. :D BTW-The feat is Master of Poisons, not Poison Master.
Ananvil 06-25-07, 10:07 PM	Then I will pull out the official 3.5 FAQ and prove them wrong. :D BTW-The feat is Master of Poisons, not Poison Master. Rule Zero. If the DM says its evil, then all the FAQs in the world don't help.
Maekrix_Waere 06-25-07, 10:13 PM	Rule Zero. If the DM says its evil, then all the FAQs in the world don't help. Morality is not subject to Rule Zero. Society's Interpretation of Morality is, but actual Morality is not.
trapspringer 06-26-07, 12:15 AM	I'd suggest fighter as the strongest simple archer build. That is to say, just take every archery-related feat available to you and spend your cash on dex-boost items and magic arrows. Poison use strikes me as very optional, but with Poison Master there is no draw back so I can't see it hurting you any. The only real obstacle is you'll need to be a spellcaster to use craft (alchemy) to make your own. Of course any character who is capable of casting spells is a spellcaster, so you could just grab one of those goofy feats from CA that lets you cast two cantrips and a first level spell daily. So if you're gunna' go that route, you'll be droppin' two feats on poison use. That's not too shabby if you consider that you can force your opponents to make numerous saves in a given round thanks to the prodigious number of attacks archers can pull off at relatively low levels (though from a CO standpoint, thrown weapons would better suit a poison-use build). So let's say human fighter six, at your relative power peak. That'll give you eight feats out of the box, plus two more if you can use flaws (obvious choices include non-combatant and frail). _ Point Blank Shot Precise Shot Rapid Shot Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Great Bow* Improved Initiative - Weapon Focus: Great Bow* _ Coordinated Shot** _ Weapon Specialization: Great Bow* _ Woodland Archer*** Ranged Sunder/Pin/Disarm* _ Complete Warrior Heroes of Battle (I think) **Races of the Wild That'll leave you with three attacks at +12 for an average of something like 15 after +2 magic gear. That's 45 damage a round that doesn't care if your target is in melee or even hiding behind a friendly. Woodland Archer boosts your odds of hitting every time you miss, so you're quite likely to hit that 45 damage average, too. (That's assuming 32pt buy, +2 gloves of Dex, and a +1 Acidic bow; total cost 12,500.) A wizard actually makes a pretty good archer, but you'll find yourself using more and more ray spells. A Cleric can make use of Zen Archer from CW to minimize MAD and be pretty righteous. A Druid utilizing that same feat and the UA variant that trades wild shape for Monk abilities has similar advantages.
mato_hibiki 06-29-07, 08:39 AM	Evil Archer? That would be that Johnathin Archer from the Mirror universe... He got killed by Mirror Hoshi though... Don't know why you wanna play a dead guy...
Jager Mage 06-29-07, 11:05 AM	Order of the Bow Initiate is a joke PrC. Its Ranged Precision works as a standard action, thus you cannot make a full-attack with it. Don't ever take more than 1 lvl of Order of the Bow Initiate. 1 Word. Then 2 more. Then 2 more. Manyshot. Improved Manyshot. Greater Manyshot. That is all.
Bopple 06-29-07, 12:26 PM	1 Word. Then 2 more. Then 2 more. Manyshot. Improved Manyshot. Greater Manyshot. That is all. No, not at all. Ranged Precision is a standard action. So is Manyshot. You cannot combine two standard actions into one.
Pyro_Azer 06-29-07, 12:32 PM	Make an archer that is a coward. Seriosly make a fighter who is a human. Give him 3 bow feats. Have him use a bow because he is too scared to get into close combat. Also consider taking the run feat. Don't give him melee weapons; only ranged.
Maekrix_Waere 06-29-07, 02:22 PM	The only real obstacle is you'll need to be a spellcaster to use craft (alchemy) to make your own. Or you can be a non-spellcaster who has ranks in Craft(Poisonmaking) from the CAd.
dogolopee 06-29-07, 03:34 PM	Be really evil and tie kittens to end of each arrow...
archerpwr 06-29-07, 04:37 PM	To the OP: Scout 4/ Ranger 16 is what you want. Greater manyshot + Improved skirmish is going to do boatloads of damage. Grab a splitting bow from champions of ruin for more fun.
Jager Mage 06-30-07, 06:26 AM	No, not at all. Ranged Precision is a standard action. So is Manyshot. You cannot combine two standard actions into one. OH BLOODY H**L!!!! Now I have to tell my DM of this fact, which means I can't do it anymore. Blast.
Sylian 06-30-07, 12:22 PM	Jager, or you could ask him to house-rule it in.
trapspringer 06-30-07, 08:35 PM	Or you can be a non-spellcaster who has ranks in Craft(Poisonmaking) from the CAd. Well, problem solved. I wouldn't want to run into that character. "Ok, so I hit for 20 damage." "Is that all, psh. I though you said your build was good." "Oh, and make five fort saves or take 10d6 dex damage."
Board_Rider 06-30-07, 11:38 PM	I like the Cleric/Rogue/Assassin builds. Some of the spells that were introduced in Complete Adventure made the Assassin, at range, downright lethal. Variants Wizard levels/Ninja builds are nice too.
MikeN 07-01-07, 01:47 AM	Sublime Ur-Theurge works quite well as an archer: Bard7/Mindbender1/Ur-Priest2/SublimeChord2/MysticTheurge8 _______ Or just cleric of an evil deity or cause.
Maekrix_Waere 07-01-07, 02:44 AM	Well, problem solved. I wouldn't want to run into that character. "Ok, so I hit for 20 damage." "Is that all, psh. I though you said your build was good." "Oh, and make five fort saves or take 10d6 dex damage." Actually, the best thing I could think of would be a Master Thrower who specialized in throwing vials of Black Lotus Extract...That's Contact poison that does 3d6 Con/3d6 Con. (DC 35 to make, cost 4,500gp) With the splash... :eek:
trapspringer 07-01-07, 11:35 PM	The price tag is a bit prohibitive. Good tactic for RBBEGs, though.
lint trap 07-02-07, 11:29 AM	Actually, the best thing I could think of would be a Master Thrower who specialized in throwing vials of Black Lotus Extract...That's Contact poison that does 3d6 Con/3d6 Con. (DC 35 to make, cost 4,500gp) With the splash... :eek: Or just use Minor Creation to make Black Lotus Extract for free. It is, after all, a "nonmagical, unattended object of nonliving, vegetable matter."