Post/Author/DateTime	Post
guru7892 01-27-06, 02:51 AM	is there a best make up for a party? it seems like one of the best could have the make up paliden, ranger, bard, wizard. the reason is because the classes very much overlap (except the wizard) so there is no glaring weakness to the party, you need to take out 2 people before they feel hurt. lets say the bard goes down: -diplomacy can be done with the paliden. -trap searches by the ranger. -spellcasting by the wizard. *note, they will still have some problems, but not as glaring ones(like if the pally hits the dirt and you face undead or the ranger falls and you have to deal with animals, wizard goes down and yo have to deal with lots of guys). what do you think?
spectralphoenix 01-27-06, 03:00 AM	Interesting, but that kind of overlap means that some areas (trapfinding and healing) are going to be underrepresented. You'd probably do ok at healing at higher levels, but at low levels that party would have a pretty low survivability. As for traps, you don't even have a cleric to cast find traps. I would have to go with the classic Fighter, Wizard, Rogue, and Cleric, possibly substituting Paladin or Barbarian for fighter or sorceror for wizard. You want a nice mix of abilities.
allenchan 01-27-06, 03:20 AM	Rangers dont have the trapfinding ability, nor do bards. ANYWAYS, "best party makeup" is highly subjective, especially because most people dont consider multiclassing when they take it into consideration. For example, a group of four clerics is going to be AMAZINGLY effective, but perhaps not quite effective as a rogue/cleric/shadowbane stalker 18, wizard/cleric/mystic theurge, cleric/radiant servant (healer), cleric/church inquisitor/Fist of Raziel (fighter) But if we're talking about straight 20 core classes with no mutliclassing, then all Druids. edit: I will say Im currently in a group going through a published adventure (Age of Worms) and we are a Cleric, Druid, Warmage, Utility/buffer wizard, and a Psychic Warrior. The synergy is just beautiful. We've yet to have a problem with a lack of a rogue.
thomasberg 01-27-06, 03:30 AM	Actually, I find that the only core class you just about can't do without, is the Rogue. While other classes can take rogue skills, only the rogue can disable magical traps. With multiclass characters a monk, bard, ranger or anyone else for that matter, should at least take a dip into rogue for a level or two. I believe it is better to have all roles covered by at least one person than to double up. As for the classic composition of fighter, wizard, cleric, rogue - I was thinking substituting fighter with barbarian might actually be better. The barbarian can more easily put some ranks in survival and take the track feat, to fill some of the missing ranger-role in this composition. When there is a fifth or sixth character, you can really have a lot of fun setting up alternative class compositions. With a paladin, a ranger and a martial cleric in the group, you might not even need a fighter or a barbarian. Another question is what the best composition is with a group of less than four players. You want the following roles covered as best you can: -Healer; Cleric, Druid, Bard, Ranger, Paladin -Diplomat (Diplomacy, Gather Information, Bluff, Sense Motive, Intimidate, etc.); Bard, Rogue, Paladin, Cleric, Monk, Druid, Sorcerer -Tracker; Ranger, Druid, Barbarian, others -Scout; Bard, Monk, Ranger, Rogue -Tinker (Locks and Traps); Rogue, others -1st. line fighter; Barbarian, Fighter, Paladin, Ranger -2nd. line fighter; Fighter, Ranger, Cleric, Monk, Rogue, Druid, Bard -3rd. line (missile); Ranger, Rogue, Bard, Monk, others -Sage; Wizard, Bard, Sorcerer, Cleric, Monk -Caster (target and area spells); Sorcerer, Wizard, Cleric, Druid -Turner; Cleric, Paladin -Senser (Spot, Listen); Ranger, Rogue, Monk, Druid, Barbarian, Bard, Cleric -Searcher; Rogue, Ranger Using this list you can see what role you haven't got in your group and tweak one of the other characters to cover it. For instance a group composition of monk, druid, sorcerer, fighter does not have anyone to disable traps and open locks, and no good senser. The Monk could cover the first bit, and maybe the sorcerer the latter. The best two-person group I have come up with, is a paladin with the Track feat and a multiclass wizard/rogue - covering all of the roles I have listed here.
Black Kitten 01-27-06, 05:20 AM	I indeed believe there is no true 'best make-up' of a party, but here would be my version: Straight 20lvl classes: Human Fighter Human Wizard Halfling Rogue Dwarf Druid With special classes: Wizard/Archmage PsyWar/Elocator (w. Greatsword) Cleric/Wizard/Mystic Thuerge Druid Mind you that we don't have many traps in our game.
geekling 01-27-06, 05:34 AM	No, no, no-no! You're going around this in the wrong way! The best party make up is clearly a gnome, a gnome, a gnome and a gnome. Classes are immaterial.
Shaggy_Shaggs 01-27-06, 06:03 AM	Four gnomes? :P What you need is four goblins, all rogues, and all with Swarmfighting. Set one up as the face/UMDer, one as a scout and trap detector, one as a TWFer and second-story man (need Str for Climb/Jump anyway, might as well lug around the killing hardware), and one as a sneakthief and (if necessary) archer. :D
geekling 01-27-06, 06:48 AM	Four gnomes? :P Well, five gnomes would be even better or eight.... There can never be too many gnomes. :D
Sir Knight 01-27-06, 08:28 AM	There really ISN'T a "best" party. It depends on your players, your campaign, and how it all comes together. For instance, the iconic party of four is a Fighter, Cleric, Rogue, Wizard. Our current party consists of: NPC Human Fighter 11 Human Monk 11 Half-Orc Barbarian 6/Frenzied Berserker 5 Elf Conjurer 11 Elf Rogue 5/Wizard 1/Invisible Blade 5 The NPC Fighter usually plays support and helps protect the Elves. The Barbarian/Berserker (obviously) is a POWER house and takes down CR creatures that are three or more CRs higher. I have to beef up the encounters to compensate. The Monk isn't much weaker as he has Improved Natural Attack, a Monk's Belt, and went the TWF tree. He has like six attacks that do 3d6+2 dmg each. The real power of the group though is the CORE Conjurer. He took a couple Conjurer varients out of Unearthed Arcana but they are pretty balanced. He can single-handedly take out the entire party. We do mock duels and he always wins. The ONLY time he doesn't is when the Barbarian wins Initiative but the Conjurer has +9 initiative so that is rare. A very odd mixture without a healer. To compensate I usually allow them to purchase potion of cure wounds. I find that it isn't needed to be really generous though as their damage output usually ends battles quickly.
Lady Maedhros 01-27-06, 08:56 AM	Druid, Druid, Druid, Cleric. Possibly two and two, since you might want to give up wild shape for some domain utility in certian groups. It's actually a serious misconception that a party needs a rogue. My monk was the party trapfinder in her campaign - she would simply walk ahead of the party and set off traps. If there was a door, everyone would stand thirty feet back and she'd open it. If there was a narrow corridor, she'd walk down it. We had to have a bit of a fight with the DM about granting experience for this unconventional method of bypassing environmental dangers, but after all, our party only took damage 5% of the time, and even then, it was never anything i couldn't heal by the time i'd walked back to them and warned them about the pressure plate. He did try dropping a boulder on the whole group from the top of a long, long flight of stairs once, but the druid turned into a giant squid and caught the thing. Anyway. The perfect party is two or three druids with one or two clerics. You have a party face (cleric, eagle's splendor optional). You have the ability to find traps (see the spell of the same name) or simply bypass them (not much hits a hawk with a two foot wingspan, on the off chance that it should trigger anything). There's always the Taukra option (my monk) - just set them off, your wild shape forms will have the hit points and saves to shrug it off, and you've got the healing to back up the odd failure. You have four tanks (have one of the druids take a level of monk for pure AC cheese). You have three point five AoE casters. You have three trackers (because a druid with max Survival and a wolf nose is a better tracker than a ranger). You have more healing than a small city needs in a month, particularly once those spontaneous summons can get you casting creatures like unicorns. You need to scale something? Flying animals, big enough to carry the cleric (helps if he's a gnome or halfling). You need to swim? Sharks, squids, whales... You need to carry a whole bunch of crap? That's what Large animal companions are for, unless you need them to swarm your enemies (since you have a group of seven, a veritable army). This group can take stuff of ECL + 6 at level 8 without breaking a sweat, and only gets more terrifying from there. Even better, give the cleric a nature god, and congrats, you just simplified plot hooks by a factor of thirty. Is this a fun party? Likely not, although i suppose it's possible with the right group. Is it the "best party"? Well, in any terms by which such a thing is objectively measureable (pretty much solely in terms of ability to deal with challenges), YES.
serow_#R 01-27-06, 01:19 PM	look at the topic qn: Best Party Make Up? ans: rouge :D *lame, but someone's gotta say it*
Jherid 01-27-06, 01:34 PM	A party consisting of a Cleric, Druid, Archivist, and Artificer would be pretty damn good.
Good Agnostic 01-27-06, 02:23 PM	Fighter, thief, cleric, magic user. (*looks at calendar*) I mean, fighter, rogue, cleric, wizard.
tiejaz 01-27-06, 03:17 PM	Wizard? are you KIDDING? Sorcerers are a MILLION times better. the best party: CG Kobold Sorcerer/Pyrokeneticist CG Elf Scout/Thief-Acrobat CG Elf Paladin of Freedom/Holy Liberator CG Kobold Bard/Dragon Disciple [a good 5th wheel would be a chaos monk/pyrokineticist] The Sorcerer would take all offensive fire-related spells, and be a pyromaniac. The Scout would use Acrobatic Charge, Spring Attack, and Skirmish to devastating effect. The Paladin would be the main-line fighter with secondary healing capacity The Bard would be the diplomat/enchanter/secondary healer. Strap up the paladin and bard with wands o' cure light, and you've got yourself made.
Commander of Chaos 01-27-06, 05:10 PM	If you are talking about once the party gets epic, than the best makeup by far is 2 wizards, a cleric and a Fighter. The cleric and fighter are there just in case there is an antimagic field.
Kiklio 01-27-06, 06:12 PM	C'mon, we need some restrictions here. Let's try all base, 20 lvl, Complete classes. Like, Hexblade Warmage Favored Soul (Deity...Obad Hai) Ninja You've got a virtual tank with nasty curses and illusions, a machine gun with a shortspear, flying Divine Power monkey with nature power, and a rogue who can go ethereal. All Psionics is trickier, but it might look like this: Psychic Warrior Shaper Kineticist Egoist I feel like I'm building FFI teams...all arcane looks similar: Warmage Abjurer Warlock Transmuter...Master Transmorgrofist The Cleric/Cleric/Druid/Druid looks nice for all divine... All fighters? Monk/Tattooed Monk Swashbuckler/Duelist/Fighter TWF Barbarian/Ranger Fighter/Order of the Bow Initiate (Despite the lack of tracking, I feel fighter works better than ranger for this) All rogues breaks down easily: Rogue Spellthief Ninja Scout
kraegor 01-27-06, 08:49 PM	The best group? 4 clerics and a rogue. Pretty much will dominate any situation.