Best use of only 2 LA's [Archive] - Wizards Community

Best use of only 2 LA's [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Impecunious_Mortal
07-15-04, 10:19 AM I'm looking for other ways to use a 2 LA. The Pc should level rather quick. Dm is going on the big battles every day mode (group level +3-5 area).
I was thinking maybe a feral/ + , Dwarf/+ , or maybe reach and 1/2 ogre/+ something.
Though I have been pondering a godless cleric (could try a flying nun lol)

So what would you do with the ability to start at ecl 3?
Krelios
07-15-04, 10:35 AM Wow. Ordinarily I don't play anything but PHB races... However, I have run games with odd creatures before since that's what everyone wanted to do. (A word of advice, they're almost always 99.9% Hack-N-Slash since such strange characters have little in the way of story or any reason why they'd be together. Limiting it to ECL 3 will probably help.)

Given the option, I might try any of the following:
- A Planetouched with 2 Class Levels (Genasi, Aasimar, Tiefling, etc.)
- A Githyanki or Githzerai (I think those are +1LA each) with a couple levels.
- A Hobgoblin with 2 class levels

I can't think of anything else of the top of my head, but I'd stick to a +1LA and a couple of class levls just to keep things easier for you to manage.
Super Guy
07-15-04, 12:08 PM +2 LA is best, definitely. Anything more means monstrous campaign, which means probably evil party =]

All of the recommended options are fine.

You could try something like 1st level fighter Lycanthrope. It's a +2 LA, so that makes you ECL 3... however, your next levels would be 'buying into' the HD of the animal you were. If you were a werewolf, your next two levels would be gaining the 2 HD a wolf has. HD count basically like levels, though, so it'd be like having 3 levels, and therefore a feat.

Or, you could play a Half-Dragon Kobold. I mean, Half-Dragon is +3, Kobold is (According to the rules) +0, but they suck so much it really might as well be -1! So you've got a 1st level Ranger Half-Dragon Kobold, ECL 3 :)

Other than a Gnoll with no class levels, there's not much else to go for that's reasonable to be in a party. Even Gnoll is pushing it, so if you want one, he'd better be CN. No LG Gnolls!! (Though, my Gnoll accidentally got turned LG from a Helm of Opposite Alignment :sad: )
danielinthewolvesden
07-15-04, 05:24 PM I won't play anything higher than an La+1 meself. Just wait until you get hit with Holy Word or Blasphemy.:b:
Sildatorak
07-15-04, 06:15 PM If your DM will let you use a savage progression you could start off at Mummy 3. You'll definitely need to take toughness, though, since you will only have 2 HD at that point and will die if you hit 0 hp.

After about level 4 mummy you might want to take some levels in cleric or fighter.
Edymnion
07-15-04, 07:51 PM How about 2 class levels?
Thats going to be a LOT stronger than any LA critter could ever be, especially at high levels.
SnowbearK
07-16-04, 12:51 AM Feral Dwarf as your race (1 level)

add two levels of either Barbarian (if you plan on being a straight-up frontline combatant) or Fighter (if you plan on being a front/mid/rearline combatant).

If you want something sneaky with decent combat abilities, go for a Feral Halfling Rogue2 or Rogue1/Ranger2 if your DM has problems with a wild-born rogue...most shouldn't.

At low levels, for +1 LA, there's nothing inherently better than the Feral Template. The Fast Healing alone more than makes up for the HD loss and delayed feat acquisition of 1 level.

My personal favorite though was a Feral Halfling Sorcerer. His combat tactics were so wildly unpredictable that around 12th level or so a lot of intelligent opponents who recognized him would turn and haul rear.
RaKhan
07-16-04, 03:31 AM Originally posted by Impecunious_Mortal
I'm looking for other ways to use a 2 LA. The Pc should level rather quick. Dm is going on the big battles every day mode (group level +3-5 area).
I was thinking maybe a feral/ + , Dwarf/+ , or maybe reach and 1/2 ogre/+ something.
Though I have been pondering a godless cleric (could try a flying nun lol)

So what would you do with the ability to start at ecl 3?

Drow from the FRCS have an LA of +2. SR of 11 + character level, +2 to all saves against spells and spell-like abilities, +2 to Dex, Int, and Cha, and only -2 to Con make that a fairly strong race. Play a LG drow monk. :P
SnowbearK
07-16-04, 03:46 AM ...and die by the end of the first week if he's very lucky.

Big battles every day with each being Average Group Level +3 to +5 CR?

8 hp max (+3 for rolling 18 con; +3 from Toughness) = 14 hp Drow Monk 1 with disabilities in his class specialties due to spending an 18 on con instead of something slightly more useful, like a 20 dex....

v.s

CR 6-8 creatures such as:

2-6 greater barghests

2-6 basilisks

1 behir

2-4 belkers

1 bodak

1-2 bulettes

8-12 centaurs (without levels)

1-2 chaos beasts

1-2 chimera

6-10 chokers

1-2 chuul

2-6 cloakers

6-12 cockatrices

And that's just from the B-C section of the SRD.

To be honest, if Impecunious_Mortal's going to go for a LA-race character, he really can't afford to give up more than 1 level, and even that has to be a great deal.
Mitchell
07-16-04, 03:48 AM LA races and templates might seem great, and for a change of pace, they can be fun, but personally, anything over +1 is just too much, unless you know for a fact that you can utilize it on an overall campaign basis (if you are going to do a heavy Drow campaign, being a Drow may not be a bad choice). If you just have to have a + LA race, and I'm really only familiar with the basic stuff/FR, go with the Tiefling, Aasimar, or Genasi, as suggested above.

At the end of the day, there is something to be said for the base races. Every LA+ takes away skill points, feats, HP, saves, attack bonuses, caster level. It's alot when you look at it, and when you stack one LA on top of another and another...

If you really want to experiment, try a mismatched race/class combo. Don't gimp yourself completely, but Dwarven rogues and clerics, 1/2 Orc paladins, Elf fighters, or, if you haven't done it before (and I honestly have no idea), just play a Human anything. Try the game at it's most primal. No funky abilities, just your class vs. the world. If none of this leaves you satisfied, look for something abit further afield, but still "base", like the aforementioned Hobgoblins or Goblins or Orcs. I don't think that you'll regret having the extra level(s).

Just suggestions.
Impecunious_Mortal
07-16-04, 09:01 AM Thanks for the great ideas
The Dm is trying a new thing out(the epic battles idea). The drawback is we start at level one even if we take 2 la's. Not particularly balanced but follows rule 0.
Dm quote: ' you will be gauranteed leveling on each encounter especially at lower levels' . that statement has me worried and my pc digging his own grave before we start. My thought was that if I didn't use up the 2 la's my Pc's wouldn't be balanced in the party with the ones that did take 2 until mid-high levels.

I probably shouldn't worry as TPK is coming IMHO .I'll just make a few Pc's and play Wheel o' PC as they bite the big one. At least til this newer Dm settles into a lower power mindset. The longer I think about it maybe a githzerai monk might live a few levels and has SR.
Super Guy
07-16-04, 02:45 PM Well, I mean, +4 Str and +2 Con isn't half bad if you want a Gnoll ranger or barbarian. There's a -2 Int, though, so if you want a fighter I'd jack the Int up to 15 and have the penalty drop it to 13 so you can get Expertise.

It's only +1 LA, but you have to buy it's 2 HD (d8's) and it's humanoid. But it's not a bad deal- my Gnoll Fighter/Ranger/Master of Chains/Werewolf was my best character and made my experienced DM worried about what could stand up to him.

By the way... Dwarven Clerics? Dwarven Clerics, IMHO, are really the best way to go for Clerics. Just dump Charisma (you can't turn worth crap) and become a fighting machine. You can spell pretty decently, fight like a monster, have hit points like a monster (with that +2 Con) and once you finally get low, cast Heal on yourself. If you really want to **** your DM off, pray to Olidimarra. Take the Luck and Trickery domains. You get a luck reroll once a day and, at 9th level for Trickery, you can cast Time Stop. The ultimate buff spell. :D Let me sum that up: Killing machines. They just fight undead like a regular guy.
danielinthewolvesden
07-16-04, 07:42 PM Originally posted by Super Guy

By the way... Dwarven Clerics? Dwarven Clerics, IMHO, are really the best way to go for Clerics. Just dump Charisma (you can't turn worth crap) and become a fighting machine. .

But you give up many useful feats. And, after about lvel 10, you'll find that the Cleric is WAY better if used to buff others and also cast offensive spell, instead of getting into combat.
Super Guy
07-16-04, 09:50 PM Well, I suppose, but I just prefer to play my neutral characters who care more about themselves than anyone else ;) What else is he supposed to cast Righteous Might and Divine Power on?

If people need healing, they get it, but personally I hate to be doing anything in a fight besides killing someone, so my clerics always fight. My weakness =P
Ranthanas
07-18-04, 07:53 AM Saint! (If you can convince your DM to allow it)- although it will make the first battle pretty hairy.

Failing that, Aasimar/White Dragonspawn Sorceror if you want a mage or Half-Troll if you want a tank.

Afflicted Lycanthrope should help you survive (DR 5/Silver)

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Impecunious_Mortal 07-15-04, 10:19 AM	I'm looking for other ways to use a 2 LA. The Pc should level rather quick. Dm is going on the big battles every day mode (group level +3-5 area). I was thinking maybe a feral/ + , Dwarf/+ , or maybe reach and 1/2 ogre/+ something. Though I have been pondering a godless cleric (could try a flying nun lol) So what would you do with the ability to start at ecl 3?
Krelios 07-15-04, 10:35 AM	Wow. Ordinarily I don't play anything but PHB races... However, I have run games with odd creatures before since that's what everyone wanted to do. (A word of advice, they're almost always 99.9% Hack-N-Slash since such strange characters have little in the way of story or any reason why they'd be together. Limiting it to ECL 3 will probably help.) Given the option, I might try any of the following: - A Planetouched with 2 Class Levels (Genasi, Aasimar, Tiefling, etc.) - A Githyanki or Githzerai (I think those are +1LA each) with a couple levels. - A Hobgoblin with 2 class levels I can't think of anything else of the top of my head, but I'd stick to a +1LA and a couple of class levls just to keep things easier for you to manage.
Super Guy 07-15-04, 12:08 PM	+2 LA is best, definitely. Anything more means monstrous campaign, which means probably evil party =] All of the recommended options are fine. You could try something like 1st level fighter Lycanthrope. It's a +2 LA, so that makes you ECL 3... however, your next levels would be 'buying into' the HD of the animal you were. If you were a werewolf, your next two levels would be gaining the 2 HD a wolf has. HD count basically like levels, though, so it'd be like having 3 levels, and therefore a feat. Or, you could play a Half-Dragon Kobold. I mean, Half-Dragon is +3, Kobold is (According to the rules) +0, but they suck so much it really might as well be -1! So you've got a 1st level Ranger Half-Dragon Kobold, ECL 3 :) Other than a Gnoll with no class levels, there's not much else to go for that's reasonable to be in a party. Even Gnoll is pushing it, so if you want one, he'd better be CN. No LG Gnolls!! (Though, my Gnoll accidentally got turned LG from a Helm of Opposite Alignment :sad: )
danielinthewolvesden 07-15-04, 05:24 PM	I won't play anything higher than an La+1 meself. Just wait until you get hit with Holy Word or Blasphemy.:b:
Sildatorak 07-15-04, 06:15 PM	If your DM will let you use a savage progression you could start off at Mummy 3. You'll definitely need to take toughness, though, since you will only have 2 HD at that point and will die if you hit 0 hp. After about level 4 mummy you might want to take some levels in cleric or fighter.
Edymnion 07-15-04, 07:51 PM	How about 2 class levels? Thats going to be a LOT stronger than any LA critter could ever be, especially at high levels.
SnowbearK 07-16-04, 12:51 AM	Feral Dwarf as your race (1 level) add two levels of either Barbarian (if you plan on being a straight-up frontline combatant) or Fighter (if you plan on being a front/mid/rearline combatant). If you want something sneaky with decent combat abilities, go for a Feral Halfling Rogue2 or Rogue1/Ranger2 if your DM has problems with a wild-born rogue...most shouldn't. At low levels, for +1 LA, there's nothing inherently better than the Feral Template. The Fast Healing alone more than makes up for the HD loss and delayed feat acquisition of 1 level. My personal favorite though was a Feral Halfling Sorcerer. His combat tactics were so wildly unpredictable that around 12th level or so a lot of intelligent opponents who recognized him would turn and haul rear.
RaKhan 07-16-04, 03:31 AM	Originally posted by Impecunious_Mortal I'm looking for other ways to use a 2 LA. The Pc should level rather quick. Dm is going on the big battles every day mode (group level +3-5 area). I was thinking maybe a feral/ + , Dwarf/+ , or maybe reach and 1/2 ogre/+ something. Though I have been pondering a godless cleric (could try a flying nun lol) So what would you do with the ability to start at ecl 3? Drow from the FRCS have an LA of +2. SR of 11 + character level, +2 to all saves against spells and spell-like abilities, +2 to Dex, Int, and Cha, and only -2 to Con make that a fairly strong race. Play a LG drow monk. :P
SnowbearK 07-16-04, 03:46 AM	...and die by the end of the first week if he's very lucky. Big battles every day with each being Average Group Level +3 to +5 CR? 8 hp max (+3 for rolling 18 con; +3 from Toughness) = 14 hp Drow Monk 1 with disabilities in his class specialties due to spending an 18 on con instead of something slightly more useful, like a 20 dex.... v.s CR 6-8 creatures such as: 2-6 greater barghests 2-6 basilisks 1 behir 2-4 belkers 1 bodak 1-2 bulettes 8-12 centaurs (without levels) 1-2 chaos beasts 1-2 chimera 6-10 chokers 1-2 chuul 2-6 cloakers 6-12 cockatrices And that's just from the B-C section of the SRD. To be honest, if Impecunious_Mortal's going to go for a LA-race character, he really can't afford to give up more than 1 level, and even that has to be a great deal.
Mitchell 07-16-04, 03:48 AM	LA races and templates might seem great, and for a change of pace, they can be fun, but personally, anything over +1 is just too much, unless you know for a fact that you can utilize it on an overall campaign basis (if you are going to do a heavy Drow campaign, being a Drow may not be a bad choice). If you just have to have a + LA race, and I'm really only familiar with the basic stuff/FR, go with the Tiefling, Aasimar, or Genasi, as suggested above. At the end of the day, there is something to be said for the base races. Every LA+ takes away skill points, feats, HP, saves, attack bonuses, caster level. It's alot when you look at it, and when you stack one LA on top of another and another... If you really want to experiment, try a mismatched race/class combo. Don't gimp yourself completely, but Dwarven rogues and clerics, 1/2 Orc paladins, Elf fighters, or, if you haven't done it before (and I honestly have no idea), just play a Human anything. Try the game at it's most primal. No funky abilities, just your class vs. the world. If none of this leaves you satisfied, look for something abit further afield, but still "base", like the aforementioned Hobgoblins or Goblins or Orcs. I don't think that you'll regret having the extra level(s). Just suggestions.
Impecunious_Mortal 07-16-04, 09:01 AM	Thanks for the great ideas The Dm is trying a new thing out(the epic battles idea). The drawback is we start at level one even if we take 2 la's. Not particularly balanced but follows rule 0. Dm quote: ' you will be gauranteed leveling on each encounter especially at lower levels' . that statement has me worried and my pc digging his own grave before we start. My thought was that if I didn't use up the 2 la's my Pc's wouldn't be balanced in the party with the ones that did take 2 until mid-high levels. I probably shouldn't worry as TPK is coming IMHO .I'll just make a few Pc's and play Wheel o' PC as they bite the big one. At least til this newer Dm settles into a lower power mindset. The longer I think about it maybe a githzerai monk might live a few levels and has SR.
Super Guy 07-16-04, 02:45 PM	Well, I mean, +4 Str and +2 Con isn't half bad if you want a Gnoll ranger or barbarian. There's a -2 Int, though, so if you want a fighter I'd jack the Int up to 15 and have the penalty drop it to 13 so you can get Expertise. It's only +1 LA, but you have to buy it's 2 HD (d8's) and it's humanoid. But it's not a bad deal- my Gnoll Fighter/Ranger/Master of Chains/Werewolf was my best character and made my experienced DM worried about what could stand up to him. By the way... Dwarven Clerics? Dwarven Clerics, IMHO, are really the best way to go for Clerics. Just dump Charisma (you can't turn worth crap) and become a fighting machine. You can spell pretty decently, fight like a monster, have hit points like a monster (with that +2 Con) and once you finally get low, cast Heal on yourself. If you really want to **** your DM off, pray to Olidimarra. Take the Luck and Trickery domains. You get a luck reroll once a day and, at 9th level for Trickery, you can cast Time Stop. The ultimate buff spell. :D Let me sum that up: Killing machines. They just fight undead like a regular guy.
danielinthewolvesden 07-16-04, 07:42 PM	Originally posted by Super Guy By the way... Dwarven Clerics? Dwarven Clerics, IMHO, are really the best way to go for Clerics. Just dump Charisma (you can't turn worth crap) and become a fighting machine. . But you give up many useful feats. And, after about lvel 10, you'll find that the Cleric is WAY better if used to buff others and also cast offensive spell, instead of getting into combat.
Super Guy 07-16-04, 09:50 PM	Well, I suppose, but I just prefer to play my neutral characters who care more about themselves than anyone else ;) What else is he supposed to cast Righteous Might and Divine Power on? If people need healing, they get it, but personally I hate to be doing anything in a fight besides killing someone, so my clerics always fight. My weakness =P
Ranthanas 07-18-04, 07:53 AM	Saint! (If you can convince your DM to allow it)- although it will make the first battle pretty hairy. Failing that, Aasimar/White Dragonspawn Sorceror if you want a mage or Half-Troll if you want a tank. Afflicted Lycanthrope should help you survive (DR 5/Silver)