Post/Author/DateTime	Post
LiamDeclan 11-19-07, 12:52 AM	Okay in our group we have several problems. 1. Encumberance is a pain. So there are a few of us who WANT the gems/jewelry instead of the coinage. We will offer to buy the items at coin value etc... Well this leads sometimes to a bidding war. Solution to this would be to take turns getting the gems/jewelry items. Hoping this will work out. 2. Nobody agrees on how to divide up the magical loot. Most of the time we will sell off things we won't use and divide the money between ourselves. Need Solutions to #2 and see issues noted below. 3. The stinking Cleric in the party will Tithe his gold to his church instead of trading it for Potions/Scrolls/Wands of healing. When we have extra cash we buy up potions to heal ourselves and then might have to give some to the Cleric when he is out of spells and needs healing. Solution to this would be to ask the Cleric if he could Tithe less and stock up on potions from his church or get us a Discount on buying them from his church. Some issues on #2 so far with this group. It seems if you pick it up, it now becomes your item. BUNCH OF Crap. I am a firm believer in, items that are very seriously needed by a certain class should get them. Like a Wizard/Sorcerer should get the Ring of Protection and not the Fighter. Or Scrolls should go to the Spellcaster not the Rogue. Magical items that increase AC should go to people with the lowest AC. The next time an item comes up that gives AC, the person who got it before should either PASS on it or if he is still the lowest AC, swap his last magic item for the higher one and give the old one up. In my opinion, if we get magic loot, we should decide who gets what based on need. Then the rest is either sold or bought by the party members and the gold is split up. The items that were handed out by need are not the player's item unless he paid for it to the party. He/She can use it forever but when they decide they no longer want it, they should not be able to run off and sell that +2 longsword for the cash and keep it all. The last time we played we had these particular items: +1 Adamantine Dagger, +3 Hide Armor, +2 Breastplate, Potion of Invisibility, +3 Amulet of Natural Armor and +3 Ring of Protection. This is all the magic stuff and we divided the cash that we found. Well since the Ranger just picked up the Amulet he gets to keep it apparently. He then said he wanted the dagger as well. The Rogue who thinks he is the party leader, gave it to him. The Cleric got the Breastplate and he really needed it, seriously. I said the Rogue should get the Ring becuase he only had plain leather armor on and he would benefit most from the Potion as well. The Fighter and I (Duskblade) got nothing. I could have taken the Hide Armor but didn't want to movement penalty and I said I wouldn't wear it but would take it. I did also say that I would have liked to have the Amulet as well since I was the frontline fighter and the Ranger was the archer. I also said that since everyone has 1 magic weapon that we should sell the dagger off. Well the Ranger somehow convinced the Rogue that he needed to keep it. So we only sold off the Hide Armor. At least I was able to convince them to buy some wands of healing with the money we got first. So all in all in that great loot sharing everyone got around 2000gp each. Others got lots more in magic items. The Rogue really irks me because he had a +1 Ring and a +1 Amulet of Natural armor that he didn't offer up to anyone else. The Ranger also had a +1 Amulet as well that he didn't share either. What do you do in a situation like this? I also think that when we divide money up we do it with a group share as well. For instance we have 5 members and if we divide the total gold we should divide it by 6 and save a portion for a group fund. We can use the group fund for scrolls/wands/potions etc... I plan on Retiring my Duskblade who is 6th level. I can't keep him in this group with his CN alignment and be able to tolerate our Rogue who has only been with us for 1/2 the campaign and his attempts at leadership. I also can't stay in the group with the Ranger who has Humans as a Favored Enemy and he IS Human. I also know that the Ranger has a Powerful Scimitar that he picked up in front of us and never uses it. My Duskblade knows that there is something going on with the Scimitar that just doesn't feel right with my Detect Magic/Spellcraft checks. As a whole, we became a party by accident, and I consider myself to be a mercenary. I have a kinship with the Fighter and the Cleric comes real close to feeling like a brother in arms. The Ranger and Rogue have bonded well. They run off by themselves periodically without telling anyone what they are doing. This is fine during downtime but my Duskblade feels that they are endangering the party by splitting up like this. Particularly annoying is that on 3 instances they burned up a Wand of Dimension Door during their escapades. I plan on making a Conjurer/Wizard and basing my character in the Temple of Knowledge where the party gets most of their ideas on adventures. We lack a Wizard anyway. I will however start making the party pay me for the Identify spells. We pay the Temple to Identify for us, to the tune of 110gp. I however will be using a Magic Item to identify the stuff but won't tell them that. The money I do get will be used to make scrolls to use during play. Maybe I will also find a way to get them to chip in on those as well.
Guardian1 11-19-07, 01:07 AM	Well, in the campaigns that I have played in in the past, the party has usually split up the magic items based on whover could best use it. For example, in my current group, we have a druid and a bard. Just last session, our character picked up a ring of protection. Both the druid and the bard could make use of it. At first glance, the logical answer would be to give it to the druid. However, in this campaign, the bard tends to get hit quite a bit, so he got it. Your complaint about the cleric tithing his money to his church instead of using his money to buy potions/scrolls/wands of cure light wounds got me thinking. Why not suggest to the cleric that he buy these items from his church? That way, he will simultaneously be buying items the party needs, and he can take care of any tithing he wishes to do after said purchases have been made, as he will be right there.
LiamDeclan 11-19-07, 01:28 AM	Well, in the campaigns that I have played in in the past, the party has usually split up the magic items based on whover could best use it. For example, in my current group, we have a druid and a bard. Just last session, our character picked up a ring of protection. Both the druid and the bard could make use of it. At first glance, the logical answer would be to give it to the druid. However, in this campaign, the bard tends to get hit quite a bit, so he got it. Your complaint about the cleric tithing his money to his church instead of using his money to buy potions/scrolls/wands of cure light wounds got me thinking. Why not suggest to the cleric that he buy these items from his church? That way, he will simultaneously be buying items the party needs, and he can take care of any tithing he wishes to do after said purchases have been made, as he will be right there. Good idea and I was thinking the same thing.
kelvinaw273 11-19-07, 04:05 AM	Well, we do the Party Kitty: 1) Items go to those that need them most or can get the most use out of them, regardless of who picks them up or tries to 'call dibs'. We're a team, and we act like one. Regardless that we may be together by accident, we have to watch each other's backs'. 2) We also keep a party fund for items that benefit everyone, even if only one person uses them, like curing wands. Everyone is expected to provide for some measure of healing for themselves, preferably a Healing Belt from the Magic Item Compendium. 3) All items not to be used get sold and the gold goes into the kitty before distribution. If magic item distribution is particularly unequal, we give more gold to the person that's lost out the most. If any character desperately needs some beefing up, we get them something before we divide up the treasure. 4) For carrying stuff, my character has a Heward's Handy Haversack. We will also invest in Bags of Holding if necessary as party items.
Morgrum 11-19-07, 09:04 AM	The groups I play with usually do the following: The total value of all the loot gets added up. This money is then equally divided up over all the players. If there is a magic item in the loot you want then you get to buy it for half price (i.e. the amount of money the party would otherwise have received for it). Magic items that are usefull for the entire party (wands, potions, tanglefoot bags and the like) are not sold but are put in the party loot, i.e. they are given to the character best able to use them and used when needed. Sometimes items will also be bought to go into the party loot, for example in the campaign I DM my players bought a wand of lesser vigour together, each of the players contributing one sixth of the price. It can get a bit complex sometimes to manage the money flow (especially when people start borrowing money from eachother to buy items) but it ensures that people are not unduly advantaged or disadvantaged by what loot you happen to find. If you can't use any of the items found you get money to buy something else with instead.
Belkar 11-19-07, 10:13 AM	In my games, coin/gems get divided evenly. Magical items go to who wants them (or best needs them...) and if there's a dispute... we settle it with a nice game of Three Dragon Ante. :P But really, it works well... And yeah... your cleric should totally be [I]tithing to his church by buying healing magic from them. This is how churches make money. At the very least - if he's such a devoted servant, and gives all his gold to the church - they darn sure should "provide" for their loyal servant with a gift of healing magic. That's pretty basic. Sounds like that particular issue is with your DM.
Sorn-Toril 11-19-07, 11:31 AM	Really I'm not saying anything new from everyone else up here so far. In all the games I've ever played in we had a party fund, a player fund, and magic items. The magic items where only kept if they could be of potential (logical) use to the party as a whole (sometimes that means beefing up a certain player/party member. The sum of the whole is only as strong as it's individual parts.). We've never really had an issue with wands and/or scrolls. Depending on who could use them and how useful they are they might stick around. But one of the biggest mistakes a party can make is to allow only the parties spell caster the wands. The rouge is a very effective magic item user, and hey nothing is more fun than when an enemy cleric silences the parties spell caster just as the rouge gives him a fire ball sneak attack. And hey if everybody but one guy's is set and the rest of the party can help him out then we will give him the extra to get ready. It's only gold guy's, your gonna get some more on the next adventure. Also another fun strategy to use is to let them invest their money in things like stores, smithies, banks, etc. to make money while their gone off on an adventure, this gives them a little more leverage to play around with and if you invest as a party then it makes the whole thing a group effort. We've done this in the past and it has worked out nicely. All you have to do is simply use the basic rules for crafts people in the town and then use the rules for adept npc profession checks to see how much they make a week, then give the players a percentage cut of the profit. This will also make the players a little bit more tied to the community, not as far as leaving it periodically, but as far as giving the chaotic or evil characters in the party a reason to protect the place during a raid or other event that your DM might wanna work into a campaign. That is my take. Good Gaming.
Orenmir 11-19-07, 11:32 AM	If the party has adventured together for a good amount of time and is amicable with each other, the "pool it all together an make and even split" method always make the most sense. I'm currently playing in a new campaign with new people at level one. Our characters have just met, so they have no history together. I am CN and I'm pretty sure at least one other character is too. We handle booty very organically. Being CN, I (and others in the party) will often "loot" the dead while the other party members have their heads turned or busy with something else. The DM and I will trade notes to see what loot I find. I (we) don't share what we find! Many players might frown on this behavior and be frustrated with it. But, it does fit the behavior of a CN character adventuring with strangers. In fact, when other CN characters in my party behave like this, it doesn't frustrate me but it does frustrate my character. It makes good role-playing opportunities, such as: "What happened to the amulet this dead guy was wearing before I killed him? It's gone now!" Sure, it could create some friction between characters (not players) -- they just have to "work it out" before becoming trustworthy companions. That's what role-playing is all about! Well, one of the many things.
kelvinaw273 11-19-07, 11:40 AM	Sure, it could create some friction between characters (not players) -- they just have to "work it out" before becoming trustworthy companions. That's what role-playing is all about! Well, one of the many things. Work it out = catch you and make you stop. Items you find may be lifesavers in the hands of another character, ergo you are putting their lives at risk. That's a big no-no in an adventuring party. Always remember the golden rule: "Thou shalt not **** with the person who watches your back."
Legdiwena 11-19-07, 12:03 PM	What does the rangers favored enemy or race have to do with your duskblade adventuring with him?
RyndarLocke 11-19-07, 12:45 PM	If the party has adventured together for a good amount of time and is amicable with each other, the "pool it all together an make and even split" method always make the most sense. I'm currently playing in a new campaign with new people at level one. Our characters have just met, so they have no history together. I am CN and I'm pretty sure at least one other character is too. We handle booty very organically. Being CN, I (and others in the party) will often "loot" the dead while the other party members have their heads turned or busy with something else. The DM and I will trade notes to see what loot I find. I (we) don't share what we find! Many players might frown on this behavior and be frustrated with it. But, it does fit the behavior of a CN character adventuring with strangers. In fact, when other CN characters in my party behave like this, it doesn't frustrate me but it does frustrate my character. It makes good role-playing opportunities, such as: "What happened to the amulet this dead guy was wearing before I killed him? It's gone now!" Sure, it could create some friction between characters (not players) -- they just have to "work it out" before becoming trustworthy companions. That's what role-playing is all about! Well, one of the many things. And, this is why my NG cleric of Lathander, casts "Know Alignment" on his "new" party members. If my cleric caught this happening, I'd easily leave you stranded the next time we hit a safe haven.
wonlee76 11-19-07, 12:46 PM	As a DM I've seen several different methods that the party chooses to divide up the loot (as DM, I rarely try to suggest anything but take note of how treasure is distributed so that one PC doesn't get hosed). Method #1: Divide equally down the line including "value" of magical items that are taken in by a PC. Sometimes this ends up with 1 PC "owing" another PC gold in some fashion since magical item division is rarely equal down the line. Example: Group of 4 PCs (traditional fighter, rogue, wizard, cleric group) end an adventure and the loot is as follows: 2,000 gold in gems, coins, art objects, etc. +1 Magical Longsword (approx. 2,000 gold) +1 Ring of Protection (2,000 gold) Each Pc would get 500 gold since that's easy enough to divide. If you combined the value of the magical items, each PC's share would be 1500 wealth if items are kept (1000 in wealth if magical items sold). Fighter PC wants the Longsword (2000 gold) Wizard PC wants the Ring of Protection +1 (2000 gold approx.) End result: Fighter takes no money out of the gold pile (his 500 gold share) and owes the rest of the group 1000 gold on top of that. Wizard takes no money out of the gold pile (his 500 gold share) and owes the rest of the group 1000 gold on top of that. This is "fair" in the sense everyone should have equal "wealth" but is a pain in the butt to keep track of all this. Method #2: Divide valuables and sold magical items equally +1. (ie. if its a group of 4 PCs, divide the loot into 1/5). The extra gold set to the side = a "group fund" used for emergencies or group items (Wands of CLW, Raise Dead/Ress costs, Buy a bag of holding, etc.). Magical items that are not-sold are kept by the PC that wnats it/needs it. If there's a good pile of items, everyone takes turns picking an item out of the pile they would want until the pile is magical items that no one wants/needs (which is then subsequently sold). This method has the advantage of everyone should get close to a fair share of the loot but you got a "party fund" on the side for "group expenses". Also, the side fund could be used to help out one PC who might be underwealthy compared to everyone else because magical items are not being evenly distributed since taking magical items is based on "need/use" rather than strictly "fairness". Method #3: Same as Method #2 except no "party fund". Everyone does what they want with their respective gold and magical treasure.
Orenmir 11-19-07, 03:35 PM	Work it out = catch you and make you stop. Indeed! And, vice versa. Some non-lethal damage and unconsciousness, as you sift though his backpack for undisclosed booty, is always a motivator for sharing. And, this is why my NG cleric of Lathander, casts "Know Alignment" on his "new" party members. If my cleric caught this happening, I'd easily leave you stranded the next time we hit a safe haven. Well, sometimes alignments just don't mix. And, maybe your Cleric is better off in a party without CN characters. Learning to mix clashing alignments is always a challenge; and, IMO, often fun role-playing -- as long as players know that it is the behavior of the character and not the other players. Because if they don't, then friction between players can occur. And nobody wants that.
Man in the Funny Hat 11-19-07, 09:26 PM	Division of treasure is first and foremost a matter for players to determine. It mostly doesn't matter what method they devise so long as they come up with SOMETHING that all the other PLAYERS can agree to. The DM can and should step in and impose his own rules on treasure division if the players are unable/unwilling to sort it out for themselves. See also: http://home.earthlink.net/~duanevp/dnd/auction.htm
kuonji 11-20-07, 02:41 AM	Well, we do the Party Kitty: 1) Items go to those that need them most or can get the most use out of them, regardless of who picks them up or tries to 'call dibs'. We're a team, and we act like one. Regardless that we may be together by accident, we have to watch each other's backs'. 2) We also keep a party fund for items that benefit everyone, even if only one person uses them, like curing wands. Everyone is expected to provide for some measure of healing for themselves, preferably a Healing Belt from the Magic Item Compendium. 3) All items not to be used get sold and the gold goes into the kitty before distribution. If magic item distribution is particularly unequal, we give more gold to the person that's lost out the most. If any character desperately needs some beefing up, we get them something before we divide up the treasure. 4) For carrying stuff, my character has a Heward's Handy Haversack. We will also invest in Bags of Holding if necessary as party items. This. If you're party is really a team, and not just a bunch of random people travelling in the same direction, then the group should come first. It doesn't matter if someone gets 3 magic items and another person gets 1 or even none, as long as the items are benefiting the group as much as can be expected. Always good to have a party fund for consumables. If you have a wizard, don't forget to give them a little extra to spend to beef up their spellbook, that scribing isn't free and the more spells they have the more use they are to the team. If your party is a bunch of greedy backstabbers, then good luck. But ask yourself this, if you caught a friend of yours stealing from you, would you still want to hang out with them? Now apply that to the game. There's a reason there are so many "problem with evil characters/parties" threads floating around.
CCS 11-20-07, 11:32 AM	Most games I've either played in or DM'd for have split the $(counting gems/jewlry) equelly & then divied out the items (magical or non-magical) 1st by need, then by want. Some groups have also created a "party" share of $/items that've then been used as group resources. A few groups have had more complex methods of dividing spoils, and the last party I played in had a very loose & informal aproach to it.
Peter Newman 11-21-07, 07:08 AM	The treasure should be divided up according to the written terms of the contract incorporating the adventuring party. Unless the majority of the country, and its laws, are chaotic there _will_ be this sort of contract. Adventurers are filthy rich and they die a lot (i.e. leave heirs to their fortune). Unless the whole set up is Chaotic this will have resulted in extensive litigation and some sort of _rigid_ rules will have developed. Typical terms in a D&D party might be that the party pays to have items appraised. Then the total value of all items received is determined and expenses allowed by the contract are deducted. The remainder is divided into shares whose value is stated in the contract. Then items are divided up. Whoever who makes the highest offer for an item, if said offer is more than its potential sale price gets the item. Say you have a party of 4 and they've just received 2,000 GP, 650 SP, a +1 longsword (2,315 GPs and we'll assume that the party has it appraised correctly, paying 110 GP for the Identify spell and 2 more to a commercial appraiser to confirm that it is a MW longsword, but since it can be sold for only half that, per the rules, so its real value is 1,157.5 GP), a potion of Lesser Restoration (300 GP, but the Rogue drank it already and the terms of the party contract say that magical healing is a legitmite party expense that need not be born by individual members, so it is not counted), and an amethyst encrusted backscratcher 'worth' 700 GP and saleable for 350 GP. They could have received a +1 wooden Shield as well but the Fighter sundered it while killing the Hobgoblin chief and, according to the party bylaws, he need not pay the party back for his breakage of a valuable item uless, by a 3/4 majority it is voted that he was negligent in breaking it. The total value of the treasure to be divided is therefore 3,572.5 GP (2,000 + 65 + 1,157.5 + 350) less expenses of 112 for valuing the sword or 3,460.5 GP. The contract specifies that each party member gets an equal share, so that is 865.125 GP each. The fighter wants the +1 Sword and submits an offer of 1,158 GP for it. No one else wants it (although the Cleric is an elf and does know how to use it, she does not want it) so his offer is accepted. The Fighter now owes the party 292.875 GP, and since the party contract clearly specifies that debts to the party fund are not allowed, so he must spend his own money to make up the difference. After a quick loan from the Rogue (at a very modest rate of 5% per week) he does so, paying in 292.88 GP since there is no such thing as half a copper piece in this country. No one wants the backscratcher so it is sold. The fund now has 2,707.88 GPs (2,000 + 65 + 292.88 + 350) that is divided between the 3 other party members. They each should recieve 902.6267 GP each, but there is no such thing as a two thirds of a copper piece either, so they each receive 902.62 GP and throw the last two coppers away, rather than argue over it, as allowed in paragraph 14, sub clause C of the party contract. This is, of course a very simple example. Once they are hgher level the division will be much more complicated. We'll need competing appraisals of various items, binding arbitration over determination of the 'correct' value of an item, and lawsuits against the party by people who take charged items as part of their share and then discover it had fewer charges, and was thus worth less, than it was appraised for. Treasure division may well occupy more time than actual adventuring. Since it is much less fun than actual adventuring, at least to most maybe we ought to simplyify it down, even at the expense of verisimilitude. On the other hand the bitter fights to the death between the characters and the subsequent collapse of the campaign, and the potential collapse of the real world friendships between the players are all part of the 'fun'.
Voran 11-21-07, 06:54 PM	Heh, must be MMORPGs on the brain, but any loot related threads now, even in non-MMORPG settings, make me think: NINJAD! or HAHAHA ITSA HUNTAH WEAPON! Seriously though. With the wealth by level guidelines, in some ways DMs are a bit more restricted on the lewt they can offer up. Its a sliding scale kinda thing. You don't want to make things too artificial: "Wow, who would have thought this treasure trove would have had EXACTLY what we needed?" to "+4 Kama huh? Um...anyone here a Monk?" The idea of selling stuff you don't need/want and splitting the cash is always a good idea. As for "Who needs it more?" stuff, thats harder to say, since it really depends on the type of Players you have. Some groups are good about making stuff goto the characters that need it. Others are more selfish, and that doesn't even factor in the "Guess how many pieces the Rogue ripped off before we split stuff" thing. In an odd way tho, character wealth by level guidelines CAN actually be your friend in this case. Since 3rd ed I've taken to keeping track of my relative item wealth (jot down 5000 gp or whatever next to the heading for my various items) so I can add up and figure where I stand. Its not perfect, but it helps highlight an obvious imbalance in the overall party if you end up with certain chars with the lions share of the lewt.
aotrscommander 11-21-07, 08:08 PM	Well, we do the Party Kitty: 1) Items go to those that need them most or can get the most use out of them, regardless of who picks them up or tries to 'call dibs'. We're a team, and we act like one. Regardless that we may be together by accident, we have to watch each other's backs'. 2) We also keep a party fund for items that benefit everyone, even if only one person uses them, like curing wands. Everyone is expected to provide for some measure of healing for themselves, preferably a Healing Belt from the Magic Item Compendium. 3) All items not to be used get sold and the gold goes into the kitty before distribution. If magic item distribution is particularly unequal, we give more gold to the person that's lost out the most. If any character desperately needs some beefing up, we get them something before we divide up the treasure. 4) For carrying stuff, my character has a Heward's Handy Haversack. We will also invest in Bags of Holding if necessary as party items. That is pretty much exactly what we do. Hell, one of my player has now created the Party Loot Sort O'matic record sheet for this very purpose. Good gamesmanship it what it boils down to; like Man in the Funny Hat said, it's down the players being sensible about it and not getting childishly giggly about imaginary money... On the odd occasions one player (and I mean this singular, one player out of both groups) had done a bit of an in-character dirty (because of the afore-mentioned tendacy to get childishly giggly about imaginary money), he has been appropriatly punished in character. He doesn't get to do it often, since the other player's characters - and the DM - watch the greedy little bugger's characters in game like vultures on a carcus...
LiamDeclan 11-22-07, 10:10 PM	What does the rangers favored enemy or race have to do with your duskblade adventuring with him? I am the only other Human in the group. His favored enemy is Human and has made it a habit to remind me of it. He likes to use bluff & sense motive checks on me from time to time to flaunt his skill at being superior to my human character. He also uses this Human thing as a reason he doesn't tell me where or what he is doing from time to time, as he doesn't trust humans enough. Sometimes do to his CN nature he just up and out of the blue says or does something like that.
Shadowhowler 11-23-07, 10:03 AM	Well, sometimes alignments just don't mix. And, maybe your Cleric is better off in a party without CN characters. Learning to mix clashing alignments is always a challenge; and, IMO, often fun role-playing -- as long as players know that it is the behavior of the character and not the other players. Because if they don't, then friction between players can occur. And nobody wants that. Sadly, a LOT of players can not make the distiction between IN character and OUT of character. *I* enjoy the style of game you are talking about, very much. So do all the players I used to game with. However, all the new players I have meet recently have a HUGE problem seperating in and out of character, and get really grumpy about it. They play a very bland, non immersive style of game that just does not cut it for me. :(
Shadowhowler 11-23-07, 10:13 AM	The treasure should be divided up according to the written terms of the contract incorporating the adventuring party. Unless the majority of the country, and its laws, are chaotic there _will_ be this sort of contract. Adventurers are filthy rich and they die a lot (i.e. leave heirs to their fortune). Unless the whole set up is Chaotic this will have resulted in extensive litigation and some sort of _rigid_ rules will have developed. Uhhh... So your style of D&D is basicly Blackwater with swords and spells? If it works for you... fine... but I would NEVER play that style of game. In over 15 years of playing RPG's, the 'group of mercs' scenario has cme up maybe 3 times. Thats three out of over a hundred games. Only one of those thre merc groups had a contract or 'charter' as it were... the rest were VERY informal. I'm a little saddend by todays trend to treat D&D adventures more as mercs out to make a buck then as hero's out to make the world better. :(
-Winter- 11-23-07, 11:31 PM	Make a crafting Wizard (or even better an Artificer.) grab some economical-type crafting feats and mercantile background from FRCS.... (very very nice feat, lets you sell stuff for 75% value and occasionally buy for 75% value) put some ranks in appraise and haggling type skills, like bluff and diplomancy. so a ring of protection sells for 1500 instead of 1000, its a 50% increase in the gold you can get for junk. soon the party will be amazed you are able to get em a 10% bonus on gold when you sell stuff... (that 10% will be divided between the party... and you'll still have the remaining 40% extra you're not telling them about... its almost like getting a double share, well its more but i cant be bothered doing the maths... :D and if your DM is supporting competitive looting, and it looks like it, then ask him to keep your selling skills a secret) Make your own loot. If your an artificer then it gets really fun because you can lay dib's on every bit of junk and melt it down for materials for your next bit of phat lewt (tm) And if you're warforged you can make mundane things when you're 'resting' and sell em. More loot! Of course you're DM mightn't have access to Ebberon or FR books and may frown on combing stuff from both... And when you are stupidly stupidly rich, make em all a trinket or two... like a healing belt. but be sure to waste gold on fancy clothes and bling to show off.. And if you can bear it its nice to try to sit just below the level of the rest of the party when you can... and burn all the extra XP you get on crafting
LiamDeclan 11-24-07, 01:36 AM	Make a crafting Wizard (or even better an Artificer.) grab some economical-type crafting feats and mercantile background from FRCS.... (very very nice feat, lets you sell stuff for 75% value and occasionally buy for 75% value) put some ranks in appraise and haggling type skills, like bluff and diplomancy. so a ring of protection sells for 1500 instead of 1000, its a 50% increase in the gold you can get for junk. soon the party will be amazed you are able to get em a 10% bonus on gold when you sell stuff... (that 10% will be divided between the party... and you'll still have the remaining 40% extra you're not telling them about... its almost like getting a double share, well its more but i cant be bothered doing the maths... :D and if your DM is supporting competitive looting, and it looks like it, then ask him to keep your selling skills a secret) Make your own loot. If your an artificer then it gets really fun because you can lay dib's on every bit of junk and melt it down for materials for your next bit of phat lewt (tm) And if you're warforged you can make mundane things when you're 'resting' and sell em. More loot! Of course you're DM mightn't have access to Ebberon or FR books and may frown on combing stuff from both... And when you are stupidly stupidly rich, make em all a trinket or two... like a healing belt. but be sure to waste gold on fancy clothes and bling to show off.. And if you can bear it its nice to try to sit just below the level of the rest of the party when you can... and burn all the extra XP you get on crafting I am liking this idea and was thinking of something along the lines of it. Right now we pay others to Identify our magic items and I plan on making my own Artificer's Monocle and still have the party pay their share of the Identify spell I will be casting "Wink, Wink":D I know I don't actually have to cast the spell but the party won't need to know that. The Mercantile Background feat I don't think I can fit it in with my choices so far. I don't want to give up the ones I chose for it. Right now its Arcane Thesis, Maximize Spell, Collegiate Wizard, Spell Thematics and Craft Wondrous Item. I could do Empower Spell, Mercantile Background, Collegiate Wizard, Spell Thematics and Craft Wondrous Item though.
Elidibs 11-24-07, 07:01 AM	Heh, must be MMORPGs on the brain, but any loot related threads now, even in non-MMORPG settings, make me think: NINJAD! or HAHAHA ITSA HUNTAH WEAPON! KEK KEK What the guys I'm playing with and I have agreed on is somewhat similar to the ones most of you guys have explained in your posts. Since one of the other players and I play World of Warcraft, we've dubbed it "need versus greed". First the rogue and I ( evoker ) go "OH GOD OH GOD HUNTER LOOT", the fighter chuckles, the druid just sits there and smiles, and the DM rolls her eyes, and then we ( logically ) decide who gets what, going by our character sheets. If both the druid and I can use the bracers of armor that belonged to the gnoll taxidermist ( due to equally poor armor classes ), we roll d%, highest roller wins. Next time something that boosts AC is found, it goes to the loser of the old roll or whoever else may need it. If we find something we could all use but no one necessarily needs lest gouts of blood erupt from their bodily orifices and bees come out of their pores ( like, for example, an amulet of proof against detection or a grey bag of tricks ), we all roll d%. Again, highest roller wins. Gold we keep on the rogue, gems we save for spell components, potions and scrolls we save until needed, other things like spellbooks and drugs we either give to the wizard or sell ( respectively, mind you ). We haven't gotten enough serious loot to use the "wealth per level" system yet, but given time we will.
Shadowhowler 11-24-07, 12:38 PM	Make a crafting Wizard (or even better an Artificer.) grab some economical-type crafting feats and mercantile background from FRCS.... (very very nice feat, lets you sell stuff for 75% value and occasionally buy for 75% value) put some ranks in appraise and haggling type skills, like bluff and diplomancy. so a ring of protection sells for 1500 instead of 1000, its a 50% increase in the gold you can get for junk. soon the party will be amazed you are able to get em a 10% bonus on gold when you sell stuff... (that 10% will be divided between the party... and you'll still have the remaining 40% extra you're not telling them about... its almost like getting a double share, well its more but i cant be bothered doing the maths... :D and if your DM is supporting competitive looting, and it looks like it, then ask him to keep your selling skills a secret) Make your own loot. If your an artificer then it gets really fun because you can lay dib's on every bit of junk and melt it down for materials for your next bit of phat lewt (tm) And if you're warforged you can make mundane things when you're 'resting' and sell em. More loot! Of course you're DM mightn't have access to Ebberon or FR books and may frown on combing stuff from both... And when you are stupidly stupidly rich, make em all a trinket or two... like a healing belt. but be sure to waste gold on fancy clothes and bling to show off.. And if you can bear it its nice to try to sit just below the level of the rest of the party when you can... and burn all the extra XP you get on crafting This whole post made me throw up in my mouth... :weep:
LiamDeclan 11-24-07, 04:04 PM	This whole post made me throw up in my mouth... :weep: EEWWW!:eek: No kisses for you! I am going to try what he said to a point, IF, my DM will let me trade off my familiar for an Item Familiar. Going to try and limit the Item Familiar on only the skills invests, xp invests and senses. Hopefully that will get me it. If not then I will only be making things that I really need and can't buy. So far nobody in town sells or can make, gloves of dexterity or headbands of intellect. The only magic we find is Core stuff and even that is kinda sparse and repeats.
MrCustomer 11-24-07, 04:59 PM	Divide the loot evenly, AFTER expences are subtracted. Expences include needed items such as potions, gear like rope, etc. The Cleric can feel free to tithe his share of the loot, after his share of the expenses are subtracted. After the potions, etc are paid for, He gets his share of the remainder and pays his tithe from that. Magic items should go Need before Greed. If a sword drops that someone can use then it goes to them first. The value of that item is taken from his share of the loot though. Now some people won't have gear/magic items that drops for them, so the value of all the Loot is calculated. The Fighter may have gotten a magic sword, but it's value of 2000gp is taken from his share of the total value of the loot. The party of 4 loots 18000 gp total value (including the sword) 2000gp of which goes to Potions and party gear, rez funds etc, the Fighter therefore the fighter will get 2000gp plus the Magic sword. (his share is 4000gp) The Bard gets 4000gp since he got no Items, and he can use that to buy his gear. The Cleric gets his share of 4000Gp from which he can pay his tithes.
LiamDeclan 11-24-07, 08:21 PM	What I want to integrate into the group is this division method. Add up all monetary value of treasure and divide by the number of party members +1 for the party fund, then share equally. Need before Greed is a must with items. If more than one person can use the item then it should be auctioned off to whoever can pay for it at the time of the people who Need it only. The next time a similiar item appears the other person/people who Need it get first dibs. Also the item value is subtracted from their share of the treasure. If need be then they might also have to kick out some cash to make up the difference to the other players. Items that are usuable by everyone for protection Need to go to the players who are the lowest in AC first and Then to the Frontline tanks. Same for Damage increasing items like Gauntlets of Ogre Power, these should go to the Frontline Warrior types and not to the spellcasters that just want it so they can carry more loot or not have any skill check penalties on climb/swim etc... No matter what there should also be a party fund involved here. The fund should be treated as a separate player character. So if you take your share of the loot in treasure and still owe cash because you went over your share amount, then you owe money to each player and the fund. Doing it this way, each person can get their share of the total loot amount and then do what they want with that item later. If they choose to sell it later, it would be very considerate and professional to offer to sell it to another party member first.
Voran 11-25-07, 02:27 AM	That's a good point, especially if you've got casters in the group, or crafters, that will be expending resources to help not just themselves, but the rest of the party, that it's important that the party helps absorb some of the costs. If the caster/crafter is being selfish, then they have to pay for it outta their own share. But if they're making pots and scrolls and gear for the party, the rest should help with costs as possible.
Slapstick87 11-25-07, 08:32 AM	This is what we do: All magical items we don't want to use gets sold. Gold and revenue from sold loot gets divided into two parts. Half is for expenses that help the entire group, like healing potions, Wands of healing, Invisibility potions, food, bribery etc. One time they even bought a base of operations with it (They ended up buying a ship rather than a house) The other half get's divided up equally among the players, for personal use (custom magic weapons etc.) Sometimes players lend money to each other so they can buy something, and sometimes the group decides to use their "group wealth" to buy a single magical item for a character, if they all agree it's worth it and needed. Magical items they find are given to the one who needs it the most. If two players claim equal right to an item, the dice-rolling begins :D It works really well.
LiamDeclan 11-25-07, 12:27 PM	Everyone has some great ideas and for the most part there is a reoccurring theme to everyone's division of loot. I guess the main thing in groups should be, to not forget the party fund and need before greed.
Belbe 11-26-07, 09:54 AM	In the games I play in we have a party kitty. All treasure gets put in the kitty, sold and the proceeds divided between the party members present. As everyone has to buy anything they want out of their own pot, it can become a bit tricky when gear gets sundered or people need to be resurrected. It works most of the time, though.
Dunsel 11-29-07, 11:58 AM	This is perfect example of player alignment clash. The chaotic people see no reason for an orderly dispersal. The evil people want it all. The chaotic evil are impossible! There should be one person in charge of distributing the treasure. All the items should be on one sheet. This sheet should stay with the DM so it will not be lost. After all the treasure has been located and detect magic has been cast, there are numerous methods to distribute. 1) Roll a twenty to determine order. The highest roll gets to pick first and so forth. The last person gets to pick twice and then the order is reversed back up to the first again. This method works well if none of the items are severely coveted by a certain player. If an item is picked before the order is created, that player is at the end of the line. If the player picks two items, that player is excluded altogether. 2) No order, everyone puts in a "dibs" for any item they want. Say three players put in a dibs for one item. They discuss to whom the item should belong. If they cannot come to a concensus, they roll d20 and the highest wins it. Once a player wins an item, any other dibs that player has in place are voided unless the number of items exceeds the number of players with dibs. 3) First blood. I offered this option when I DMed an evil group. The players would, as above, put in a dib. If more than one player dibbed on an item, they would battle for 1st blood. Sometimes they just fought to the death anyway but it was a good concept. The players (should be IC) are in charge of how they spread the wealth. The DM should not interefere unless the situation devolves into a shouting match. And, maybe not even then. I usually leave the room when my players are dividing the loot and ask who got hwat when I return.
Jarsallen 11-29-07, 12:27 PM	I'm a little saddend by todays trend to treat D&D adventures more as mercs out to make a buck then as hero's out to make the world better. Word.
Orenmir 11-29-07, 01:34 PM	I'm a little saddend by todays trend to treat D&D adventures more as mercs out to make a buck then as hero's out to make the world better. It follows our current trend in literature, movies, entertainment, tv -- it's all gravitating toward realism. Mercs are much more realistic than heros. Also, I think the older D&D gets, the less imaginative it gets. Too many books that describe things for you instead of imagining it yourself. Society wants to be spoon-fed; our current younger generation is being labelled the "entitlement" generation. All of this translates into less imagination. Playing a hero requires more imagination than playing a merc because there aren't enough heroes in our current society as models. There are, however, plenty of mercs.
Jarsallen 11-29-07, 02:30 PM	Playing a hero requires more imagination than playing a merc because there aren't enough heroes in our current society as models. There are, however, plenty of mercs. Also the damn kids won't git off ma lawn!
zelf_gale 11-29-07, 03:00 PM	Here is some methods. 1) Pillaging. Whoever gets their hands on it and can keep hold of it owns it. Works for some Chaotic and Evil parties who are comfortable with PvP encounters. 2) Divvying. All the loot is spread evenly between members. Members can buy items for half price before they are sold. Works well for Individuals who do not have formalized adventuring relations with other members. 3) Divvying after Expenses. A party fund is created per session for agreed upon costs (including items). Divvying is performed from whatever resources are left. Works well for individuals who have a formalized agreement but may not contribute equal amounts of time during a campaign. 4) Divvying after Savings. A party fund is created per campaign for agreed upon costs. Divvying is performed from whatever resources remain. Works well for individuals who belong to a mutual organization but may need to make independent purchases. 5) Communal Pile. The party fund contains all resources. Members borrow, but do not own, resources from the fund at the discretion of the group. Works well for tight nit groups who belong to a mutual formal organization that can cooperate with resource distribution on a dynamic basis. I personally prefer #3 but it seems your group is somewhere between #1 and #2. You might want to discuss with them the benefits of full disclosure and how it might improve your enjoyment of the game.
narack 11-29-07, 06:45 PM	I haven't play a game in years but DM alot instead. My player like to start of by putting all they found in a common bag. Usually i haven't seen them ague about item. If and item is usefull but they don't see use now they choose as a team to sell it and buy with the money something useful to them now. For unknown reason a thief always seems to take smaller share and always finish with more money, but that's as mysterious as socks that disappear in the washer.
Helspar 01-03-08, 10:53 PM	Just bumping this to see if anyone has any other ideals not discussed yet. Im going to have to come up with a proposal for splitting treasure for our current group (we've been playing together a year now) to replace the one we have been using. Currently, we throw everything into the pile at the end of an adventure and dice for order then go in order picking an item each til nothing is left. The monetary value of those items are tallied per character and those with the lower amounts have their share back filled from the gold, etc. It's an imperfect system that several of us truly dislike. I'd like to propose more of the "as needed" basis for items, and monetary treasure being split equally +1 share for a party fund. We are a group of friends, all supposed to be adults, and the parties characters are also closely aligned so a "good for the party" system should work for us. This was a good thread to read, glad I used the search function :D Helspar
Atheus 01-04-08, 05:52 PM	our party splits up the gold and gems evenly (or as evenly as possible) then pools all magic items (regardless of who found them) together. in our games items sell for half (2,000gp ring sells for 1,000), so if someone wants an item from the pool they pay the sell price for it and that is split between the other party members. if more than 1 person wants an item, both state their cases and the jury (the party) makes their verdict based on need. we have had some issues though. our warlock thinks he shouldn't have to pay for something that is charge based (wands). our archer found a +17 sword (total enhancement and abilities) and still felt entitled to his share of the gold...but we generally just send that kind of stuff to the jury and let them decide how it will work.
sblaxman 01-04-08, 08:25 PM	If your party bickers over magic items, do the old "roll and pick" method... everyone rolls a d20, highest numbers picks first, and so on, until the loot is gone. Either split gold/gems evenly, or split them after the items have been split based on the value of the items (most gold goes to the guy that ended up w/ the magic jumping bean, the least to the guy w/ the sword of +12 death and destruction) It's a crappy method, but the only way to make things "fair" if people are bickering. Ideally they'd just discuss and share (I've been lucky w/ the PCs that I've DMed, they all got along).