Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Aicosis 04-09-06, 02:08 AM	For a campiagn me and my friends are playing I play a bard/fighter which i made into a warchanter. I was wondering how everyone else likes to play a bard.
kelvinaw273 04-09-06, 02:48 AM	Bard is best as a backup for every other class, a jack of all trades. You are unique, but never forget that while you ARE a bit good at everything, that is the only thing you are a lot good at.
Nor'Morgwae 04-09-06, 04:01 AM	Whenever I realise I need 3 or more classes to play the character I want, I usually just make it a bard. Ok, not really. I usually do something with the Bardic Music ability. I had one character that was a bard Undead Hunter. A concept I haven't played yet is a bard jester that uses bardic music & illusions to scare his enemies out of fighting. Any performer character I make is usually a bard.
jaydubyadub 04-09-06, 08:03 AM	A bard should spend as many feats as are available to up your music abilities. Extra bardic music is rarely useful, but say, Song of the Heart or Subsonics might be. After that, focus on one aspect to the exclusion of others. Spell Focus (Illusion) and Greater Spell Focus (Illusion). Weapon Finesse. Dodge, Mobility, & Spring Attack. Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Rapid Shot. You don't have enough feats to do more than pick a single tree you like and go for the best / most suitable combat role. I've only played one bard, but he was the sole "tank" in the party (not optimal, not recommended, but with a psion AND a wizard, not like he had to hold the enemy off for long!), so I took Song of the Heart @ 3rd level, Combat Expertise and Improved Disarm as well as Dodge, Mobility, and later spring attack (I eventually took 2 levels in Fighter to get bonus feats and get martial proficiency).
WarColonel 04-09-06, 02:23 PM	I don't like to play bards. Jk. Anyway, I have indeed played a few bards. One was the rogue substitute. One was the diplomat. Another was primary (yes, primary) arcane spellcaster. The last was comic relief. And that's the way I like to play my bard: as what ever the party needs.
cambric 04-10-06, 03:32 PM	A bard should spend as many feats as are available to up your music abilities. Extra bardic music is rarely useful, but say, Song of the Heart or Subsonics might be. It is if you take "Lyric Song" feat. It allows you to use bard musics for extra spells. For instance: I run out of spells and need to cast another 3rd level, I can 'give up' four uses (it's the level of spell + 1) to cast it. (Essentially, the 'extra bard music' gives me extra castings per day, at least one 3rd level spell, and that's worth the feat to me.) I play an 8th level bard, a buffing machine, so by the 7-8th round of battle, my team has an extra attack (haste) and a +8 to a +9 to hit and damage, per attack, per player. Yeah, they don't mind battles so much now. :D Even at the first round, I have a masterwork trumpet and using that, they start immediately at a +3 to hit and damage! If needed: I can use my bard music to change into extra spells, so it is useful for me and the way I play one. A lot depends on how you want to play a bard. As it was stated: They are the best at nothing, but usually the 2nd best at everything. I can heal (cure light wounds) in an emergancy. IF you 'need' me to be the healer...well, you're probably going to die. But if you're low and need a 'boost', I can jump in and help. If you drop near 0 or below, I can get over there and give you some extra health...you don't want to rely on me to keep the party healed up. Out of 7 players, only 2 can heal...and I'm one of them. As long as you remember and accept, that's the tough part for many players, that you're never going to be the 'best' at anything. The fighter will always do more damage...the mage be a better caster...the cleric a better healer...the rogue better at skills...but none of them can do it all, as we bards can!! Cam
metamind 04-10-06, 03:56 PM	One of the people I DM for plays a bard. Whenever he gets into a fight, his first action is to cast Otto's Irrisistable Dance on as many people as possable. I hate him.
EternalZzyx 04-10-06, 04:20 PM	i generaly dont play bards, but one of my players does, frequently from an rp perspective, he is trying quite hard to mesh with the nobility of the campain world, he generaly plays as if he is somewhat out of his depth in most situations, and has more of an eye for the ladies than is wise in court. bards can be intresting from a rules perspective, but truely shine in rp (which is a major factor in my campain.) in terms of rules, he took dirgesinger (Libris morits) him animating one of my monsters after it dies is most irritating.
spoogemonkey 04-10-06, 04:24 PM	yes, I agree with the "comic relief" answer. Bards can "help" other party members... but aren't ever Equal party members. You play Bards because they are fun...and they always have something to do...and they get to talk alot. I've played two bards. One was a necrophiliac. The other played the tamborine. Here's a typical scene from that campaign: Bard: "Hey, I just learned a new song - you wanta hear it?" Rest of party in unison: "NO!!" (one party member: "Hell, no.") Bards get to flirt. Bards get to woo. Bards get to try and talk their way out of difficult situations. And if you don't like your Bard? Just run into combat..... and get another character sheet!
KublaiKhan 04-10-06, 04:49 PM	Tactically, as ranged attack and support. Keep in mind that your bardic music can be used for as long as you want, when Inspiring Courage--so the number of times you can use that really makes no difference, so long as you don't need stealth. Besides, it works on all allies within earshot--get a loud instrument, and you're all set. Strategically, they can act as halfway decent generals--they have the message spell, and other similar ones, to send orders, and there's a bard spell in the Spell Compendium to allow you an overview of the land--very useful for mapping out combats. Also, they make really good party faces--combine charisma as a primary stat with all the charisma-based skills as class skills, and you've got a social engineer. Need something identified? Bards get that spell. Also, Bardic Knowlege is a great thing to have around when you're going to look in a new area, or you're looking for a lich, or whatever. What a Bard should NOT do is get involved directly in combat. Not their thing. Nor should they be the primary anything [ other than, perhaps, the party face ]. Most of the people who complain about Bards just don't play them right.... Now, if you're building a Bard, bring in Song of the Heart, and use a masterwork drum--at 1st level, you're already contributing +3 with Inspire Courage. Assuming a 1st level fighter has STR 18 and a masterwork weapon, you're making him 50% more effective--all day long. Also, keep in mind that a Bard can be used to spread the party's reputation--who's a noble going to hire to get his necklace back from the bandits: The Bawdy Rogues, who everyone's talking about their great triumph over the Thousand Orcs of Everhill, or Gorebel's Company, who show up in town every once in a while to buy supplies before they set out to do...something?
Morrowner 04-10-06, 04:54 PM	A few ways I play them as Rogue Substitute: You need a guy who can make with the sneaky sneaky, huh? Well, the Bard does have an ability roughly equal to Sneak Attack along with spells like Sonic Weapon that boost base damage and Haste. They can also lie very well with Glibness and the monster Charisma score they usually have. Some spells like Wave of Grief, Confusion, and Cloud of Bewilderment can be used when attacking won't get it done, but usually the slots go to buffing. Monster Buffer: Focus it all on getting the most out of Inspire Courage with masterwork Trumpets, Crescendo, Song of the Heart, Inspirational Boost, Words of Creation, whatever it takes. I like to take Extend Spell with a guy like this and make myself Invisible while the buffed characters get funky and occasionally heal some guys. Bard-Arcer:Archetypical build. Less focus on taking feats to up sneak attack damage or the Inspire Courage and more with making good with the bow. Takes buffs but go nigh exclusively on him. Good for Elves and feytouched. The buffer seems to work the best for me followed by the Archer. Rogue substitute can be pulled off, it takes a lot more planning and scouring books that can give you more Sneak Attack hit dice.
Pandaemoni 04-10-06, 05:04 PM	Bard is best as a backup for every other class, a jack of all trades. You are unique, but never forget that while you ARE a bit good at everything, that is the only thing you are a lot good at. That's not entirely true...Bards make the best "face" characters. They specialize at social interaction and are better at it than any other official class. Even rogues, which have access to all the proper face skills, don't have the magical ability to bolster those skills (like Glibness and Modify Memory).
Archmage_Vall 04-10-06, 09:54 PM	I've only ever played 1 bard before. He was a dwarf who got the clever idea to tie some brass wires to his dwarven waraxe to make a guitar. He then proceeded to use Sculpt Sound to amplify it and add some distortion. Add Mirror Image, limited to 1 copy, and he was 2/3 of ZZ Top.
tiercel 04-10-06, 10:27 PM	Bards can easily master the "face" role, with Charisma as a key stat, all of the social skills as class skills, plenty of skill points, and spells/bardsong that back up their social role -- not only can they cast glibness, but they can make suggestions much less obtrusively (bardsong) than digging through a spell component pouch and then chanting "INCANTATUM MENTALIS MUTATIO" in a strong voice. Heck, without trying very hard as a bard you can get your Diplomacy rating through the roof, to the point where almost anyone who is willing to listen to you at all is likely to become a lot less hostile, or even friendly, toward you and your group. The various bardsongs point to another obvious role for the bard: buffing and support. Bardsong alone can keep your party happy, not to mention helper spells like invisibility and haste and excellent support spells like grease, glitterdust, silence, confusion. You're an enabler. As a "secondary spellcaster" with a decent class list (and, quite possibly, a stack of UMD ranks), you can scoop up all manner of minor magical items and scrolls -- purchasing them when you can, or taking scrolls that are of spells your wizard already has and wouldn't use in combat because it is important for him to be casting "Mass Devastation" this round. Stack your handy haversack full of minor, useful spells (and a few not-so-minor ones) and you are Batman -- always the right tool for the job. In fact, this is one of my favorite things about bards -- outside of being the party face and singing inspire courage every so often, there isn't a long list of expectations. Everyone is expecting the cleric to heal and the mage to fireball, but if you want to hold off for a round and really pay attention to something odd your enemy is doing, or use a minor buff that is helpful to everyone but that the mage doesn't have time for because he needs to be casting a higher level spell.... well... you can. You're "just" the bard, after all. And when you do save the day -- and being the one to pick up the slack when just about any other party member falls by the wayside means that you will have your opportunities to do so -- it is all the sweeter if no one expected the *bard* to do that. (And, as a minor corollary... you tend to get targeted less. Most enemies are more worried about the person throwing fireballs, the obvious holy man, or the deadly swordswoman right in their face than the guy in the back exhorting and aiding his friends.)
Tytalus 04-11-06, 01:43 AM	The two kinds of bards I enjoy are the bardic commander and the bladedancer (not to be confused with the PrC of the same name). A bardic commander focuses on bardic music (specifically: Insprire Courage), social and knowledge skills. One level of Marshal [MiniHB] go very well with it. Typically they are buffer and party face, but also make decent archers (since they benefit from their own inspire courage bonuses). A bladedancer takes a more active role in combat, combining feats like Snowflake Wardance [FB] and items like the Songbow, Slippers of Battledancing [DMG2], Gauntlets of Heartfelt Blows [DragonMag] to make good use of their high charisma. As an additional challenge, it's fun to play them as physically weak (low STR), fragile (low hit die, low CON) characters. Oh, and a nitpick: Now, if you're building a Bard, bring in Song of the Heart, and use a masterwork drum--at 1st level, you're already contributing +3 with Inspire Courage. You can't take Song of the Heart at first level.
Nor'Morgwae 04-11-06, 02:42 AM	I've only ever played 1 bard before. He was a dwarf who got the clever idea to tie some brass wires to his dwarven waraxe to make a guitar. He then proceeded to use Sculpt Sound to amplify it and add some distortion. Add Mirror Image, limited to 1 copy, and he was 2/3 of ZZ Top. That has wandered into realms of awesomeness untold. I salute you sir.
Fenris78 04-11-06, 07:58 AM	I've got a war-drummer planned. Masterwork drum and Inspirational Boost spell will mean you're giving your party +2 hit, +3 damage for as long as you want to play, and for 5 rounds after (there's a feat you can take this (Lingering Song?) that ups that to 10 rounds). A couple or 3 levels in rogue and some two-weapon fighting and I'll hopefully have a very versatile character. Loads of social skills and some disable device (probably won't bother too much with sneaking skills), the ability to buff and Cure Light Wounds, and able to dish out some reasonable damage with two short-swords whilst flanking and I'll be a very good all round character to support the 5 other guys in the team. The spells and Facinate/Suggestion I get on top of that are just icing on the cake. Edit: Well, the Bard does have an ability roughly equal to Sneak Attack... Do they?
Morrowner 04-11-06, 08:15 AM	Yeah, the Inspire Courage has often been a lot better than Sneak attack for me. In a 5 person party I was laying down Inspire Courage +5 to a party of a Rogue, Fighter, Barbarian, and Cleric. Thats an extra 5 damage, which is rougly equal to sneak attack 2d6... But no max range and it hits all targets and bleeds over onto the other guys and allows you to nearly double your BAB so you are hitting a lot more. When the constructs, plants, undead, and oozes start showing up and the Rogue is doing 1d6+4 but you're doing 1d6+1d6+9 and giving everybody else big fat bonuses people forget about Sneak Attack :cool:
Fenris78 04-11-06, 08:22 AM	Hehe - cool. I think the problem I will have (and have had as the guy that often ends up playing a cleric) is getting people to remember to add their buffs on :rolleyes:
cambric 04-11-06, 09:55 AM	Hehe - cool. I think the problem I will have (and have had as the guy that often ends up playing a cleric) is getting people to remember to add their buffs on :rolleyes: And that's a huge problem if you have a player not doing what they are best at! I had one player want to play a bard, he had seen my bard in action...but he wanted to do 'everything' well. Sad part, he forgot to do the buffing. He felt he wasn't doing enough then...??? :confused: When I can, over 15 rounds of battle add +80 to hit and damage, along with an extra FULL attack for 8 rounds, for every PC (6 others) that's not doing enough?? If the guy forgets to do the buffing and wants to do damage with his items, it could be a very short battle for him. Personally, I love bards! But they have their place. Ideally: more than 4 players, with the 5th being a bard, focus on buffing the group. I know...I know: People have built bards to be melee experts, etc...but from my point of reference, because all I've ever seen is failure when they try to do 'too' much, the most 'ideal' bard will focus on buffing and his spells, which casted in a timely manner, can influence an entire battle in one or two rounds. Cam
Prator_the_Legendary 04-11-06, 10:09 AM	My bard doubles as the party rogue and as a sort of amatuer nuker. My arcane spellcasting powers are small, true, but what few aggressive spells I have picked are strong enough to be worth it. Plus, with all the skill points my guy has in all sorts of knowledge categories, I'm generally the smartest guy in the party. AND I'm the main holder of the party's magic items, so I can Use Magic Items for a virtually infinite supply of miscellaneous tricks. As a bonus, my party doesn't really have a melee fighter, so that task falls to me too. In short, my bard does everything that the rest of the gang is too incompetent to do.
Sylvarius 04-11-06, 11:17 AM	Well, this is a bit of a special scenario, but I'm having massive amounts of fun with it. My current group is playing a Gestalt game, check Uneathed Arcana for all the tiny details, but this basically means you level in two classes at once and take the best features of both. Anyways, I am currently a Bard 5/Healer 5/Marshal 1 Half-Celestial Half-elf. I usually play big combat tanks or nuking spellcasters, so it's a lot of fun having a character who just sits back and heals the party, as well as cranking out buffs. Personally, I'm enjoying the fact that I have a 23 to perform and 26 to diplomacy with only 6 HD, and I kind of look forward to ruling my own country someday ;). Its also fun to be able to provide alternate solutions to problems, such as when my party came upon a city that was under siege by Pelorians because the ruling council was corrupt, instead of having to infiltrate the council chambers if we wanted to make a difference, I instead almost single-handedly persuaded the three armies(one outside and two inside the town) to aid us in overthrowing the council. Just makes for more interesting gameplay than always having to overpower things physically.
KublaiKhan 04-11-06, 11:26 AM	Bugger, why did I say "Song of the Heart"? I meant to say something completely different. X.x Something-or-another Inspiration--it's in the Spell compendium; swift-action 1st level spell, +1 to Inspire Courage checks started within a round.
Fenris78 04-11-06, 11:30 AM	Bugger, why did I say "Song of the Heart"? I meant to say something completely different. X.x Something-or-another Inspiration--it's in the Spell compendium; swift-action 1st level spell, +1 to Inspire Courage checks started within a round. Inspirational Boost - Complete Adventurer. Good spell :) Edit: though Song of the Heart would make a great 3rd level feat. Drums + inspirational boost + Song of the Heart = +3 to hit +4 to damage. Now that kicks an awful amount of arse.