big man have problem [Archive] - Wizards Community

big man have problem [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
nyaif36
05-31-05, 02:29 PM In the games that I play with some friends I have always played the god-all-mighty-tank-o-destruction, which I like to do. my only problem is that my friends play little wimpy (hp wise) characters and i can only kill things so fast. things get through to them and they have problems such as being perpetually lost (with an immortal character!), falling unconsious 10 or 11 times, death, nausea, severe stomach cramps ect. sometimes another player will make a tank but even then it doesn't help when the wizards blow everyone up. what should i do.
Steely Glint
05-31-05, 02:41 PM This really sounds like their problem, not yours. There's not a lot you can do to protect another character from their own weaknesses.

That being said, I would suggest a high Dex tank with a reach weapon and Combat Reflexes if you want to protect a large area with attacks of opportunity. You can get 20 ft. reach if one of those weak little wizards casts enlarge person on you.
nyaif36
05-31-05, 02:46 PM The dwarven waraxe is kind of what all my characters use, and polearms are a problem in small areas, what about my being blown up and knocked down to 4 life and being the only living thing hundreds of feet below the surface?
Josheva
05-31-05, 03:23 PM Play a monk! They get extra speed to protect a large area, they get combat reflexes, they get Spell resistance, and most of all, they get evasion!
mcnoo
05-31-05, 04:38 PM Pick up lords of madness, get the aberant feat extended reach, giving you +5' to your threatened area, then pick up sword and fist and use that three headed spear thingy that leats you atack foes adjacent to you. (I forget the name, begins with an A), that way you threaten anyone anywhere within 20' of you. It's a bit metagamed, but it's a fantastic combo for stopping people getting past you, especially if you've got your hands on combat reflexes and improved trip, which brings me to the suggestion of playing a monk as mentioned above.
75RD Drum Clip
05-31-05, 07:36 PM Sounds like it is time to give your other party members a crash course in Tactics 101.
Callista
05-31-05, 08:18 PM *laughs*

Yep, one tank in a party is just not enough!!

First of all, let's try to vary those tactics... the dwarven waraxe is cool, but right now, you need reach!

Try a spiked chain. As much as I hate to recommend one of these munchkin magnets, your character really needs that big threat area... it doesn't do as much damage as some other weapons; but that's the trade-off.

Alternately: Try your dwarven waraxe for up-close work, but when you need to protect your companions, drop the waraxe (free action) and draw a reach weapon (move action, combineable with the normal move with your +1 or more BAB). Carry a backup waraxe as well, if you wish; a fighter can never have too many weapons (at least until he can't carry them all...).

Are all those weak little wizards buffing you? They should be. If they aren't, ask specifically. After all, it's their hides you're protecting. Do be sure not to get in the way of their spells, though. They hate that.

There are some good reach weapons out there. Time to broaden your options, I think--try tripping people, for example, or disarming them.

Work out strategies with the wizards--for example, if you're dealing with opponents who keep dodging you (i.e., high DEX), a simple casting of Grease which you stay just outside of can keep them flat-footed; and if you have Rogues, they'll be even happier for it. And Druids have some great battlefield-control options...

And, of course, there's healing. Stay buddied up with the cleric; you're a tank and you'll need the healing as battle tires you out. Always keep the strongest cure potion you can buy on hand, as well as several weaker ones to heal up after battle, if the cleric is out of spells. One character of mine used a glove of storing with a cure serious wounds potion inside, putting the potion in her hand as a free action... very handy, and has saved a couple of lives.

What does your party look like, exactly? We can help you more with that info.
Siduakal
05-31-05, 09:26 PM The ultimate tank tool for stopping things from getting past you

Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Spiked Chain

Combat Expertise

Improved Trip

Standing = Provokes.. you have a 10 ft threat range.. you can hinder advances on your allies a great deal.
Count Arioch the 28th
05-31-05, 09:32 PM However, keep in mind that you can't trip them again as part of the AoO for standing.

The rule is you make the AoO before the action happens, so you are tripping them while still on the ground, which does not impair their ability to stand up.

However, it is indeed a pretty good tactic.
Siduakal
05-31-05, 09:44 PM Right. But you can also get Improved Disarm. They're about to stand, yank their weapon away. Then when they go for it after they stand, put'em on their ass.
Andrew_980
06-01-05, 01:37 PM use that three headed spear thingy that leats you atack foes adjacent to you. (I forget the name, begins with an A),
the weapon you are thinking of is a duom
nyaif36
06-01-05, 02:35 PM As I previously posted I like to confine myself to a dwarven waraxe, otherwise I can become far to over powered, i understand that to many of you this is a completely foreign concept but being a one man army is my limit. this actually happens alot with all of my characters, and I am also more concerned with killing things faster. my real problem is simply that i have trouble killing more than 1 a turn unless i take cleave or great cleave. I was hoping that you had maybe some advice for getting the people with 1/2 my hp to A) not blow me up as a neccessary sacrafice B) stand up for themselves and C) not play "if this happens i'll be a god" characters. And like i said the blowing up is only a small problem, it's more that it gets in the way. (i have also caused a few of the explosions in a "why doesn't anyone just see if the door is locked" situation, traps can hurt!.
Steely Glint
06-01-05, 02:57 PM Soo... you don't want to be a one man army, but you want to kill as many creatures as you can per round as fast as possible? :confused:

I don't think there's much advice we can give you to stop your friends from blasting you in the back, except that you should tell them not to.
Callista
06-01-05, 05:48 PM Have your friends take a level (or more) in Archmage as soon as they can. They get the same spell progression as the wizard, and they can take this neat little "Shape Spells" power that means they can cast area of effect spells *around* you...

You want to get more attacks without Cleave? Well, that's what Combat Reflexes and a big threat area gives you!! Try it, you'll see...
LosGunD
06-01-05, 05:56 PM There's a feat in, I think, complete adventurer called extraordinary spell aim. It allows them to leave one person out of area of effect stuff. Go for that.
Flushmaster
06-02-05, 12:44 AM To avoid being blown up by allied casters, tell them (in character) that you'lll beat the snot out of them if they deliberately include you in the blast of one more fireball or any other area effect spell. Follow through with said threat if necessary. Remind them that they have access to damage dealing spells that affect targets, not areas (magic missile, Melf's acid arrow, scorching ray, disintegrate, the various orb of... spells, etc) and that the Precise Shot feat is the friend of anybody standing in the back row, regardless of class.

To avoid getting blown up by enemy casters, tell your caster allies that they should prepare a dispel magic or two and get ready to counterspell any magical attacks attempted by enemies. Remind them that if you go down then there's nothing between them and the mean things with pointy weapons/claws/teeth/etc.

======================================== =====================

As to tips on how to be the bodyguard for a bunch of low HP REMFs (no offense to anybody that knows what REMF means and is one; I'm usually one of those wizards in the back myself)...

In general, remind your "charges" that they should try to help you by targeting any particularly quick looking foes. There's no way you're going to impede a hoard of kobolds alone, but one well placed fireball in front of you can drop a lot of them before they can rush if one of the casters wins initiative.

If enemies frequently go past you to attack the spellcasters (which a smart enemy should do if you're the only one with armor and an axe standing in front of three people in flowing robes :P), then get the Combat Reflexes feat, boost your dexterity in as many ways as you can, and position yourself to make as many attacks of opportunity as possible in the event of such rushes.

A weapon that allows trip attacks, like a flail or scythe, is also useful in that you can trip a passing foe with your AoO, which is in most situations the only way to effectively halt the enemy's forward progress towards your "charges" behind you. Remind your casters that it's in their bast interest that that foe doesn't live to stand back up; they can attack them with weapons or targeted spells while they're still prone (-4 AC when prone), which is until their next turn (after everybody gets the cheap shot), and standing up again provokes another AoO from you (if your allies haven't finished them yet and you take a five foot step back so you threaten their space; a strong slash/smash from you can likely finish them). This in and of itself isn't a munchkin tactic; it is a specific one that makes perfect sense for somebody to learn if they frequently have to protect folks behind them; if they don't try to pass you they don't incur the trip attempts.

To make yourself even nastier at this, pick up Combat Expertise and Improved Trip. Combat Expertise is a prerequisite for Improved Trip but has it's uses (particularly if you want to boost your AC). Improved Trip gives you a +4 on your trip check and you get a free shot at the opponent if you trip them, making it that much less likely that they'll be getting back up to menace your allies. A reach weapon that allows trip attacks, like a ranseur, glaive, or spiked chain, increases your threat range and the size of a corridor you can "protect" with these tactics; a polearm like a ranseur or glaive is also a two handed weapon and can be quite nasty in general if you want to combine it with Power Attack or such as well.

So in short, my suggestions are tell your buddies not to blast you and to counterspell enemy casters, and pick up a tripping weapon (preferably with reach) and the Combat Reflexes, Combat Expertise, and Improved Trip feats in that order. Stand ten or fifteen feet in front of your allies and trip anything that tries to get past you. Hit them when they're down as much as you can and tell the others to do the same.
nyaif36
06-02-05, 01:54 PM You do have to remember that in most of the situations that they blow me up in they also blow themselves up. in other words they panic and take a "neccesary" risk that, like i said leaves me with 4 hp hundreds of feet below ground with who knows how many resetting traps. Also thanks for the advice on how to stop the stampede that gets through
Flushmaster
06-03-05, 05:27 PM You do have to remember that in most of the situations that they blow me up in they also blow themselves up.

Somebody needs to have a discussion with these guys about concepts like aiming and areas of effect...

I only drop area effect spells on allies if they have evasion and a high reflex save (conveniently, those two tend to coincide). I never include myself in the blast, because I"m smart enough (or maybe paranoid enough) to avoid getting that close to opponents that I need a fireball to get rid of (a shocking grasp is often prepared for such emergencies, plus a dimension dor if I'm high enough level).
Merestil Haye
06-04-05, 07:34 AM Persuade them not to do it until after you are protected from the effects of their blast. Vigorously, if necessary.

Or, play a half gold dragon and just bask in the heat as they fireball left and right. Kobolds should give you no trouble - you are what they want to be when they grow up, after all...
Shazarn
06-04-05, 12:51 PM What is the make-up of your party? (And I don't mean Revlon)
nyaif36
06-09-05, 02:41 PM My party usually consists of me as the tank, and 3 or 4 wizards, sorcerers, gnomes who like to make stuff before the battle (more bombs that happen to include me in the aoe when they go off) and occaisionally they will "help" by making a rogue.
Dragonsblood
06-09-05, 03:20 PM No cleric?

Tell them the party only needs 1 wizard/sorcerer. My ideal group consists of a defencive minded fighter or paladin, a cleric, a sorcerer or wizard, a rogue, and someone who can offtank - like another fighter that's more offencive or a monk or a duel weilding ranger or maybe a bard with fighter abilities.
cvazi
06-10-05, 09:41 AM I just googled REMF :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Roleplaying-wise, none of my characters would stand to keep getting nuked by my teammates- especially when none are in any position to fix me afterwards. After a couple long heart to hearts, my tanks would have left a long time ago- and might have taken a couple heads with him. Otherwise, just let the enemy melee your casters- and let those jerks nuke each other.
nyaif36
06-21-05, 01:13 PM sorry I ignored this thread for so long but have been busy, letting the enemy by just to get back at the players is just a little cruel and anti-productive, don't ya think. I wan't them to stop but I don't want them to be like "well, if he isn't gonna cover us I'M gonna be a fighter, and then we have 5 fighters getting nuked by enemy spells while we are stuck behind an Iron wall.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
nyaif36 05-31-05, 02:29 PM	In the games that I play with some friends I have always played the god-all-mighty-tank-o-destruction, which I like to do. my only problem is that my friends play little wimpy (hp wise) characters and i can only kill things so fast. things get through to them and they have problems such as being perpetually lost (with an immortal character!), falling unconsious 10 or 11 times, death, nausea, severe stomach cramps ect. sometimes another player will make a tank but even then it doesn't help when the wizards blow everyone up. what should i do.
Steely Glint 05-31-05, 02:41 PM	This really sounds like their problem, not yours. There's not a lot you can do to protect another character from their own weaknesses. That being said, I would suggest a high Dex tank with a reach weapon and Combat Reflexes if you want to protect a large area with attacks of opportunity. You can get 20 ft. reach if one of those weak little wizards casts enlarge person on you.
nyaif36 05-31-05, 02:46 PM	The dwarven waraxe is kind of what all my characters use, and polearms are a problem in small areas, what about my being blown up and knocked down to 4 life and being the only living thing hundreds of feet below the surface?
Josheva 05-31-05, 03:23 PM	Play a monk! They get extra speed to protect a large area, they get combat reflexes, they get Spell resistance, and most of all, they get evasion!
mcnoo 05-31-05, 04:38 PM	Pick up lords of madness, get the aberant feat extended reach, giving you +5' to your threatened area, then pick up sword and fist and use that three headed spear thingy that leats you atack foes adjacent to you. (I forget the name, begins with an A), that way you threaten anyone anywhere within 20' of you. It's a bit metagamed, but it's a fantastic combo for stopping people getting past you, especially if you've got your hands on combat reflexes and improved trip, which brings me to the suggestion of playing a monk as mentioned above.
75RD Drum Clip 05-31-05, 07:36 PM	Sounds like it is time to give your other party members a crash course in Tactics 101.
Callista 05-31-05, 08:18 PM	laughs Yep, one tank in a party is just not enough!! First of all, let's try to vary those tactics... the dwarven waraxe is cool, but right now, you need reach! Try a spiked chain. As much as I hate to recommend one of these munchkin magnets, your character really needs that big threat area... it doesn't do as much damage as some other weapons; but that's the trade-off. Alternately: Try your dwarven waraxe for up-close work, but when you need to protect your companions, drop the waraxe (free action) and draw a reach weapon (move action, combineable with the normal move with your +1 or more BAB). Carry a backup waraxe as well, if you wish; a fighter can never have too many weapons (at least until he can't carry them all...). Are all those weak little wizards buffing you? They should be. If they aren't, ask specifically. After all, it's their hides you're protecting. Do be sure not to get in the way of their spells, though. They hate that. There are some good reach weapons out there. Time to broaden your options, I think--try tripping people, for example, or disarming them. Work out strategies with the wizards--for example, if you're dealing with opponents who keep dodging you (i.e., high DEX), a simple casting of Grease which you stay just outside of can keep them flat-footed; and if you have Rogues, they'll be even happier for it. And Druids have some great battlefield-control options... And, of course, there's healing. Stay buddied up with the cleric; you're a tank and you'll need the healing as battle tires you out. Always keep the strongest cure potion you can buy on hand, as well as several weaker ones to heal up after battle, if the cleric is out of spells. One character of mine used a glove of storing with a cure serious wounds potion inside, putting the potion in her hand as a free action... very handy, and has saved a couple of lives. What does your party look like, exactly? We can help you more with that info.
Siduakal 05-31-05, 09:26 PM	The ultimate tank tool for stopping things from getting past you Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Spiked Chain Combat Expertise Improved Trip Standing = Provokes.. you have a 10 ft threat range.. you can hinder advances on your allies a great deal.
Count Arioch the 28th 05-31-05, 09:32 PM	However, keep in mind that you can't trip them again as part of the AoO for standing. The rule is you make the AoO before the action happens, so you are tripping them while still on the ground, which does not impair their ability to stand up. However, it is indeed a pretty good tactic.
Siduakal 05-31-05, 09:44 PM	Right. But you can also get Improved Disarm. They're about to stand, yank their weapon away. Then when they go for it after they stand, put'em on their ass.
Andrew_980 06-01-05, 01:37 PM	use that three headed spear thingy that leats you atack foes adjacent to you. (I forget the name, begins with an A), the weapon you are thinking of is a duom
nyaif36 06-01-05, 02:35 PM	As I previously posted I like to confine myself to a dwarven waraxe, otherwise I can become far to over powered, i understand that to many of you this is a completely foreign concept but being a one man army is my limit. this actually happens alot with all of my characters, and I am also more concerned with killing things faster. my real problem is simply that i have trouble killing more than 1 a turn unless i take cleave or great cleave. I was hoping that you had maybe some advice for getting the people with 1/2 my hp to A) not blow me up as a neccessary sacrafice B) stand up for themselves and C) not play "if this happens i'll be a god" characters. And like i said the blowing up is only a small problem, it's more that it gets in the way. (i have also caused a few of the explosions in a "why doesn't anyone just see if the door is locked" situation, traps can hurt!.
Steely Glint 06-01-05, 02:57 PM	Soo... you don't want to be a one man army, but you want to kill as many creatures as you can per round as fast as possible? :confused: I don't think there's much advice we can give you to stop your friends from blasting you in the back, except that you should tell them not to.
Callista 06-01-05, 05:48 PM	Have your friends take a level (or more) in Archmage as soon as they can. They get the same spell progression as the wizard, and they can take this neat little "Shape Spells" power that means they can cast area of effect spells around you... You want to get more attacks without Cleave? Well, that's what Combat Reflexes and a big threat area gives you!! Try it, you'll see...
LosGunD 06-01-05, 05:56 PM	There's a feat in, I think, complete adventurer called extraordinary spell aim. It allows them to leave one person out of area of effect stuff. Go for that.
Flushmaster 06-02-05, 12:44 AM	To avoid being blown up by allied casters, tell them (in character) that you'lll beat the snot out of them if they deliberately include you in the blast of one more fireball or any other area effect spell. Follow through with said threat if necessary. Remind them that they have access to damage dealing spells that affect targets, not areas (magic missile, Melf's acid arrow, scorching ray, disintegrate, the various orb of... spells, etc) and that the Precise Shot feat is the friend of anybody standing in the back row, regardless of class. To avoid getting blown up by enemy casters, tell your caster allies that they should prepare a dispel magic or two and get ready to counterspell any magical attacks attempted by enemies. Remind them that if you go down then there's nothing between them and the mean things with pointy weapons/claws/teeth/etc. ======================================== ===================== As to tips on how to be the bodyguard for a bunch of low HP REMFs (no offense to anybody that knows what REMF means and is one; I'm usually one of those wizards in the back myself)... In general, remind your "charges" that they should try to help you by targeting any particularly quick looking foes. There's no way you're going to impede a hoard of kobolds alone, but one well placed fireball in front of you can drop a lot of them before they can rush if one of the casters wins initiative. If enemies frequently go past you to attack the spellcasters (which a smart enemy should do if you're the only one with armor and an axe standing in front of three people in flowing robes :P), then get the Combat Reflexes feat, boost your dexterity in as many ways as you can, and position yourself to make as many attacks of opportunity as possible in the event of such rushes. A weapon that allows trip attacks, like a flail or scythe, is also useful in that you can trip a passing foe with your AoO, which is in most situations the only way to effectively halt the enemy's forward progress towards your "charges" behind you. Remind your casters that it's in their bast interest that that foe doesn't live to stand back up; they can attack them with weapons or targeted spells while they're still prone (-4 AC when prone), which is until their next turn (after everybody gets the cheap shot), and standing up again provokes another AoO from you (if your allies haven't finished them yet and you take a five foot step back so you threaten their space; a strong slash/smash from you can likely finish them). This in and of itself isn't a munchkin tactic; it is a specific one that makes perfect sense for somebody to learn if they frequently have to protect folks behind them; if they don't try to pass you they don't incur the trip attempts. To make yourself even nastier at this, pick up Combat Expertise and Improved Trip. Combat Expertise is a prerequisite for Improved Trip but has it's uses (particularly if you want to boost your AC). Improved Trip gives you a +4 on your trip check and you get a free shot at the opponent if you trip them, making it that much less likely that they'll be getting back up to menace your allies. A reach weapon that allows trip attacks, like a ranseur, glaive, or spiked chain, increases your threat range and the size of a corridor you can "protect" with these tactics; a polearm like a ranseur or glaive is also a two handed weapon and can be quite nasty in general if you want to combine it with Power Attack or such as well. So in short, my suggestions are tell your buddies not to blast you and to counterspell enemy casters, and pick up a tripping weapon (preferably with reach) and the Combat Reflexes, Combat Expertise, and Improved Trip feats in that order. Stand ten or fifteen feet in front of your allies and trip anything that tries to get past you. Hit them when they're down as much as you can and tell the others to do the same.
nyaif36 06-02-05, 01:54 PM	You do have to remember that in most of the situations that they blow me up in they also blow themselves up. in other words they panic and take a "neccesary" risk that, like i said leaves me with 4 hp hundreds of feet below ground with who knows how many resetting traps. Also thanks for the advice on how to stop the stampede that gets through
Flushmaster 06-03-05, 05:27 PM	You do have to remember that in most of the situations that they blow me up in they also blow themselves up. Somebody needs to have a discussion with these guys about concepts like aiming and areas of effect... I only drop area effect spells on allies if they have evasion and a high reflex save (conveniently, those two tend to coincide). I never include myself in the blast, because I"m smart enough (or maybe paranoid enough) to avoid getting that close to opponents that I need a fireball to get rid of (a shocking grasp is often prepared for such emergencies, plus a dimension dor if I'm high enough level).
Merestil Haye 06-04-05, 07:34 AM	Persuade them not to do it until after you are protected from the effects of their blast. Vigorously, if necessary. Or, play a half gold dragon and just bask in the heat as they fireball left and right. Kobolds should give you no trouble - you are what they want to be when they grow up, after all...
Shazarn 06-04-05, 12:51 PM	What is the make-up of your party? (And I don't mean Revlon)
nyaif36 06-09-05, 02:41 PM	My party usually consists of me as the tank, and 3 or 4 wizards, sorcerers, gnomes who like to make stuff before the battle (more bombs that happen to include me in the aoe when they go off) and occaisionally they will "help" by making a rogue.
Dragonsblood 06-09-05, 03:20 PM	No cleric? Tell them the party only needs 1 wizard/sorcerer. My ideal group consists of a defencive minded fighter or paladin, a cleric, a sorcerer or wizard, a rogue, and someone who can offtank - like another fighter that's more offencive or a monk or a duel weilding ranger or maybe a bard with fighter abilities.
cvazi 06-10-05, 09:41 AM	I just googled REMF :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: Roleplaying-wise, none of my characters would stand to keep getting nuked by my teammates- especially when none are in any position to fix me afterwards. After a couple long heart to hearts, my tanks would have left a long time ago- and might have taken a couple heads with him. Otherwise, just let the enemy melee your casters- and let those jerks nuke each other.
nyaif36 06-21-05, 01:13 PM	sorry I ignored this thread for so long but have been busy, letting the enemy by just to get back at the players is just a little cruel and anti-productive, don't ya think. I wan't them to stop but I don't want them to be like "well, if he isn't gonna cover us I'M gonna be a fighter, and then we have 5 fighters getting nuked by enemy spells while we are stuck behind an Iron wall.