Blade Bard? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Blade Bard? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
someonelse812
12-16-07, 10:13 PM I’m going to be starting a new game soon and one of the players has only played second edition, he is new to the 3.5 rules. I however have very little knowledge of 2nd ed. He told me about the Blade Bard, he said it was a kit. I of course have no idea what that is so he explained it to me. The flavor of the blade bard sounds really cool and it would really fit the game I will be running. I searched through my books (mostly just the complete series) looking for a prestige class that fits (I was hoping they had updated it) but I have found nothing. I suggested a few possible builds using multiclassing with bard, fighter and rogue. Although, from what I have heard of them it doesn’t sound like spells and Bardic music are vital to the blade bard concept, so I even suggested a rogue / fighter multiclass.
So I’m posting here to see if anyone knows of a Blade Bard prestige class, or if not, could you suggest a build that would recreate the second edition Blade Bard?
DrMorganes
12-16-07, 11:25 PM Never heard of it. Can you give us the same summary you received?
someonelse812
12-16-07, 11:52 PM sure, here's a quote: "a Blade Barb is in the 2nd Edition Complete Book of Bards. It's a Bard kit...where they are sword shows men (ie - Sword swallowers, throwing knifes, juggling blades) but they are also assassins. They can stay around the neutral alignement, but can sway without penalty to neutral good, or neutral evil without penalty."
StevenO
12-17-07, 12:01 AM The Blade Bard was a "Kit" in the old 2e Complete Bard's Handbook. It is described a Bard with a specialty as Assassin/Spy/Weapon Master. Looking at their abilities nothing strikes me as impossible for a 3.5 build if using the right flavor with feats and such. Here is a brief run down of their 2ed abilities with 3.5 equivalent:

Weapon Display: Use fancy sword work to give an effect that is already similiar to Bardic Music. See if Perform (Weapon Display) is considered a legal method to use the Bards "Music" ability.

Handle Weapons: Simply two weapon fighting.

Trick Throw: Uses now obsolete Called Shots. Extends use of Blindfighting to a weapon range of 30 feet. The 3.5 equivalent would probably be a ranged feat.

Defensive Spin = Full Defense. Actually it is closer to Combat Expertise where not giving up your attack for minor damage (2e version) is replaced by your ability to attack.
Offensive Spin: A difficult to pull off fear type effect

Basically there is nothing all that special about a 2e Blade Bard outside of flavor when converting to 3ed. Realistically, it is just your Standard Bard built up as a flashy combat unit.
Andrew
12-17-07, 03:26 AM The majority of it sounds like things a normal bard would be fine with, only being a matter of feats & attributes. Perform (weapon drill) is listed in Complete Warrior, though it generally wouldn't work with bardic music. "Snowflake Wardance" is a feat from Frostburn to use Perform (Dance) to get Charisma on attacks with one-handed and light slashing weapons, which also may be appropriate.

Also, the Bard spell list and the Assassin spell list are extremely similar.
mcnoo
12-17-07, 01:07 PM You could just let him play a bard, but exchange the bard song abilities for fighter BAB progression and something akin to a monk's unarmoured AC bonus. Off the top of my head that seems to balance out.

Then again, he could always play a sorceror/dex based fighter.
StevenO
12-17-07, 02:05 PM If you're going to drop the Bard Song Abilities for Fighter BAB and an unarmored AC progression why even start with a bard? Just multiclass with something else. Even with the Blade's original entry it comments it doesn't ACTUALLY fight any better than a typical bard but is just more flashy. I have no idea where the AC bonus comes from and the Blade's ability is definitely closest to Combat Expertise.
Salla
12-17-07, 02:27 PM I can't recall how (or if) bard music worked in 2nd Edition, but I agree it doesn't sound all that critical to the concept. Really ... just sounds like an assassin with ranks in Perform to me.
The_Shaman
12-18-07, 07:09 AM I can't recall how (or if) bard music worked in 2nd Edition, but I agree it doesn't sound all that critical to the concept. Really ... just sounds like an assassin with ranks in Perform to me.

If you don't need the song, the Dragon Compendium battle dancer is imo the best idea. I'm not sure how the blade worked in 2nd edition, but I'd normally go with a bard/swiftblade, maybe with a few dervish levels.
Cifer
12-18-07, 09:26 AM Swashbuckler sounds like a good idea for this, too.
Kouk
12-18-07, 01:20 PM It seems to me like the Master Thrower might make a good Prestige Class to take a couple levels of if you want to be good with throwing knives and things, but a straight Bard couldn't take it until level 8. This would make the combat style very ranged weapon intensive.

According to Complete Warrior, Perform(Weapon Drill) is unfortunately not eligible for use in Bardic Music ability though it would handle things like showing off and sword swallowing. Nobody says you can't have a few different Perform skills though.

If the Bardic spells and Music are not vital, a straight Rogue may be close enough depending on feats (Rogues get Perform as well).
Brand_X
12-21-07, 07:32 PM As someone who has enjoyed Bards from Day 1 of the AD&D Players Handbook here is the true flavor of the Blade kit that seems to have been left out and a reitteration of someone who hit it perfectly above.

1st The Blade was not so much an Assassin as an Assassin of conscience. He did not take money for killing but would pay attention to area he was in and if there was someone who was taking advantage of those who were beneath them such as a Trader paying slave wages and creating a virtual slave group of his employees this might be a target where the Blade kit would hit and then redistribute the wealth to the employees. He would also leave a calling card. In this the Blade was a lot like Robin Hood or Zorro.

2nd The Blade was not any better at fighting. Flash and Pizazz were the trademarks of the kit. Though one little bit was really nice. Handle Blade (book at home) had to do with thrown weapons. You could throw a Dagger or light weapon at a Blade and he had a good chance of catching the weapon and throwing it back as an attack. He had to have juggling and something else to do this. It also allowed him to juggle many daggers and then based on level in one attack unleash them at an enemy.

Again without the book in front of me I cannot be 100% specific. Though it has me thinking about my current Bard and how to make him more interesting.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
someonelse812 12-16-07, 10:13 PM	I’m going to be starting a new game soon and one of the players has only played second edition, he is new to the 3.5 rules. I however have very little knowledge of 2nd ed. He told me about the Blade Bard, he said it was a kit. I of course have no idea what that is so he explained it to me. The flavor of the blade bard sounds really cool and it would really fit the game I will be running. I searched through my books (mostly just the complete series) looking for a prestige class that fits (I was hoping they had updated it) but I have found nothing. I suggested a few possible builds using multiclassing with bard, fighter and rogue. Although, from what I have heard of them it doesn’t sound like spells and Bardic music are vital to the blade bard concept, so I even suggested a rogue / fighter multiclass. So I’m posting here to see if anyone knows of a Blade Bard prestige class, or if not, could you suggest a build that would recreate the second edition Blade Bard?
DrMorganes 12-16-07, 11:25 PM	Never heard of it. Can you give us the same summary you received?
someonelse812 12-16-07, 11:52 PM	sure, here's a quote: "a Blade Barb is in the 2nd Edition Complete Book of Bards. It's a Bard kit...where they are sword shows men (ie - Sword swallowers, throwing knifes, juggling blades) but they are also assassins. They can stay around the neutral alignement, but can sway without penalty to neutral good, or neutral evil without penalty."
StevenO 12-17-07, 12:01 AM	The Blade Bard was a "Kit" in the old 2e Complete Bard's Handbook. It is described a Bard with a specialty as Assassin/Spy/Weapon Master. Looking at their abilities nothing strikes me as impossible for a 3.5 build if using the right flavor with feats and such. Here is a brief run down of their 2ed abilities with 3.5 equivalent: Weapon Display: Use fancy sword work to give an effect that is already similiar to Bardic Music. See if Perform (Weapon Display) is considered a legal method to use the Bards "Music" ability. Handle Weapons: Simply two weapon fighting. Trick Throw: Uses now obsolete Called Shots. Extends use of Blindfighting to a weapon range of 30 feet. The 3.5 equivalent would probably be a ranged feat. Defensive Spin = Full Defense. Actually it is closer to Combat Expertise where not giving up your attack for minor damage (2e version) is replaced by your ability to attack. Offensive Spin: A difficult to pull off fear type effect Basically there is nothing all that special about a 2e Blade Bard outside of flavor when converting to 3ed. Realistically, it is just your Standard Bard built up as a flashy combat unit.
Andrew 12-17-07, 03:26 AM	The majority of it sounds like things a normal bard would be fine with, only being a matter of feats & attributes. Perform (weapon drill) is listed in Complete Warrior, though it generally wouldn't work with bardic music. "Snowflake Wardance" is a feat from Frostburn to use Perform (Dance) to get Charisma on attacks with one-handed and light slashing weapons, which also may be appropriate. Also, the Bard spell list and the Assassin spell list are extremely similar.
mcnoo 12-17-07, 01:07 PM	You could just let him play a bard, but exchange the bard song abilities for fighter BAB progression and something akin to a monk's unarmoured AC bonus. Off the top of my head that seems to balance out. Then again, he could always play a sorceror/dex based fighter.
StevenO 12-17-07, 02:05 PM	If you're going to drop the Bard Song Abilities for Fighter BAB and an unarmored AC progression why even start with a bard? Just multiclass with something else. Even with the Blade's original entry it comments it doesn't ACTUALLY fight any better than a typical bard but is just more flashy. I have no idea where the AC bonus comes from and the Blade's ability is definitely closest to Combat Expertise.
Salla 12-17-07, 02:27 PM	I can't recall how (or if) bard music worked in 2nd Edition, but I agree it doesn't sound all that critical to the concept. Really ... just sounds like an assassin with ranks in Perform to me.
The_Shaman 12-18-07, 07:09 AM	I can't recall how (or if) bard music worked in 2nd Edition, but I agree it doesn't sound all that critical to the concept. Really ... just sounds like an assassin with ranks in Perform to me. If you don't need the song, the Dragon Compendium battle dancer is imo the best idea. I'm not sure how the blade worked in 2nd edition, but I'd normally go with a bard/swiftblade, maybe with a few dervish levels.
Cifer 12-18-07, 09:26 AM	Swashbuckler sounds like a good idea for this, too.
Kouk 12-18-07, 01:20 PM	It seems to me like the Master Thrower might make a good Prestige Class to take a couple levels of if you want to be good with throwing knives and things, but a straight Bard couldn't take it until level 8. This would make the combat style very ranged weapon intensive. According to Complete Warrior, Perform(Weapon Drill) is unfortunately not eligible for use in Bardic Music ability though it would handle things like showing off and sword swallowing. Nobody says you can't have a few different Perform skills though. If the Bardic spells and Music are not vital, a straight Rogue may be close enough depending on feats (Rogues get Perform as well).
Brand_X 12-21-07, 07:32 PM	As someone who has enjoyed Bards from Day 1 of the AD&D Players Handbook here is the true flavor of the Blade kit that seems to have been left out and a reitteration of someone who hit it perfectly above. 1st The Blade was not so much an Assassin as an Assassin of conscience. He did not take money for killing but would pay attention to area he was in and if there was someone who was taking advantage of those who were beneath them such as a Trader paying slave wages and creating a virtual slave group of his employees this might be a target where the Blade kit would hit and then redistribute the wealth to the employees. He would also leave a calling card. In this the Blade was a lot like Robin Hood or Zorro. 2nd The Blade was not any better at fighting. Flash and Pizazz were the trademarks of the kit. Though one little bit was really nice. Handle Blade (book at home) had to do with thrown weapons. You could throw a Dagger or light weapon at a Blade and he had a good chance of catching the weapon and throwing it back as an attack. He had to have juggling and something else to do this. It also allowed him to juggle many daggers and then based on level in one attack unleash them at an enemy. Again without the book in front of me I cannot be 100% specific. Though it has me thinking about my current Bard and how to make him more interesting.