Post/Author/DateTime	Post
wowfood 06-28-06, 05:43 PM	i wanted to give my ext charactor a querk, being that he's blind. However, i'm unsure how to balance this out at all. So far my plans were he gets blind fight as an autofeat in replacement for his sight, but that still seems kinda crappy because there's still that glaring 50% miss chance. Can anyone think of a way to make my blind char slightly more balanced?
VrecknidjX 06-28-06, 07:37 PM	I played a blind fighter/rogue in a campaign that didn't allow monks (I wanted to be a monk). It was a blast. I ended up talking the DM into allowing my character to eventually get blindsense (different from blindsight), from having grown up this way (I think I traded it for a racial ability--my character was a half-orc). Anyway, he was a blast to play, even with the 50% miss chance. I ended up taking a home-brew feat chain that roughly emulated the monk's unarmed attacks, allowing me to get a flurry eventually. With enough attacks, I overcame the miss chance with enough frequency to make it still worth it. And, as a rogue, I maxed out Tumble, upping my sneak attack likelihood. What a blast it was to be able to tumble, blind, into advantageous positions. Finding vital spots was do-able, my DM argued. After all, real-life martial artists sometimes learn to fight blindfolded and are plenty dangerous. Dave
Edwind 06-28-06, 07:44 PM	Why does everyone want to play a blind person? Whats so special about them...I see threats like this pop up every couple of days and it's always the same question. "I want to play a blind guy, how do I balance it out?" You could easily play a deaf person, or a crippled person and have just as much fun. Whats everyones obsession with playing a blind character is what I wanna know.
NightBreeze 06-28-06, 07:58 PM	Why does everyone want to play a blind person? Whats so special about them...I see threats like this pop up every couple of days and it's always the same question. "I want to play a blind guy, how do I balance it out?" You could easily play a deaf person, or a crippled person and have just as much fun. Whats everyones obsession with playing a blind character is what I wanna know. Have you never seen a comic or manga where there's a blind monk who tells some pearls of wisdom everyday and he seems be see more that an eagle, avoiding arrows/knives, or taking them in the midair? It's cool, at least the fist time you see it.
wowfood 06-28-06, 08:35 PM	best thing is, he's always most aware of his surroundings, and because he's blind, most people underestimate him. Its always great to see somebody get their arses kicked by a blind guy, except daredevil, he just bugs me.
Edwind 06-28-06, 08:50 PM	Really, I think there shouldn't be a balance factor involved in this...This guys been blind since he was 5. It's a crippling disability, not a cool character trait. He shouldn't even be adventuring in the first place.
Aeromus 06-29-06, 04:08 AM	You balance it out by playing him, and gaining levels. Yes the stuff you fight will always own you.. but one day you to can stand at the inn and tell a peasant to "please attack me" as you parry with you for some reason 72 armor class.
SoldierOfFortune187 06-29-06, 04:34 AM	Keeps coming back to the two sides "I play with a disability, I want something to balance/negate it," and "You want to play it, play it for roleplaying, not for powers." D&D ain't the modern world, nor even a reasonable facimile of it. Children born with defects like this are not nutured and cared for because hey, someday they may grow up to be awesome warriors. No, they have something that keeps them from being a productive member of the town, and are promptly let slip the mortal coil. Posters are right, this thread or a variation on it does surface at least once a week, and all with the same response (because its no longer 'cool' to the board regulars)... don't play it and expect free stuff. Remember the poor deaf blind mute quadraplegic wizard suffering from a disociative personality disorder doesn't get his penalties lessened for playing something different... why should you?
babysamurai 06-29-06, 05:46 AM	In the immortal words of Dr. Lazarus "Don't, just don't."
LCD2YOU 06-29-06, 07:00 AM	i wanted to give my ext charactor a querk, being that he's blind. However, i'm unsure how to balance this out at all. So far my plans were he gets blind fight as an autofeat in replacement for his sight, but that still seems kinda crappy because there's still that glaring 50% miss chance. Can anyone think of a way to make my blind char slightly more balanced?Read the posts of the others. If you want to gimp your character, do it. If you think that your character would be the 1 in a million that actually could make something of themselves, at first level, choose "Blindfighting", then another feat, I can't thinking of one right now, that will help your character at least survive. On the positive side, figments and gaze attacks don't work on your character. So, like the others said, the only thing you can do is play your character with the disability. You have handicapped, gimped your character and shouldn't be rewarded for it. If you can somehow, with a fair DM one who isn't going out of their way to kill you or is not treating you with kid gloves, make 2nd level, good for you. If you were in my game what you run into is what you run into even if it is manticores who are flying and you're in a featureless and flat desert. In such a situation, your character is toast unless your team's other party members can kill it themselves. It won't take long for the characters and players to look at you more often as a liability and not an asset. Don't be surprised if they might decide to dump the dead weight. By making your character have feats and skills at 1st level to negate their blindness, your character isn't really blind then is she/he? If they are not really blind, what's the point of saying they are?
SoldierOfFortune187 06-29-06, 10:45 AM	If they are not really blind, what's the point of saying they are? The implied coolness factor that you, the blind (playercharacterclass) are out there saving the world. As I said in my post, the idea has been done to death across the boards, so very few still find it 'cool,' but your party might... or they might do what LCD2YOU said *shrug*... roll of the dice (kind of literallly).
The_Normal_Anomaly 06-29-06, 10:57 AM	Take the Daredevil route if you are so desiring a blind character. Ok, you can act like you could see, but go ahead and take double damage from sonic attacks and be stunned for 1d4 rounds or more. Call it magic.
Sulaco 06-29-06, 11:07 AM	i wanted to give my ext charactor a querk, being that he's blind. However, i'm unsure how to balance this out at all. So far my plans were he gets blind fight as an autofeat in replacement for his sight, but that still seems kinda crappy because there's still that glaring 50% miss chance. Can anyone think of a way to make my blind char slightly more balanced? No. If you want Blind Fight then take it as a feat, there is no reason at all you should get it for free. Same holds true for Tremorsense, Blidsight, or any other compensating ability. Being blind isn't a "quirk," it is a disability. If you want to take a blind PC then you should have to pay to price for that decision. If someone in your game wanted to take a PC with no legs would they automatically get the ability to Levitiate? If they wanted a PC with no arms would you let them use Mage Hand or Telekinesis at will? Unless you are a complete crap DM I would think the answer is no. Why then should a blind PC get extra abilities for free to compensate for his chose disability? Based on past experience reading the dozens of similar threads that pop up every few weeks it seems to me that people who want to play blind PCs do not want to do so in order to enhance RPing, they do it cos they want to be "uber-leet" like Zatoichi the blind swordsman. They want the "kewlness" of being a blind kick-ass killer but they don't want to be actually, you know, be blind or anything distressingly inconvenient like that.
Sulaco 06-29-06, 11:19 AM	If you think that your character would be the 1 in a million that actually could make something of themselves, at first level, choose "Blindfighting"... Precisely. If you want it, take it. There is no reason you should get it for free.
snowlynx 06-29-06, 11:44 AM	Why then should a blind PC get extra abilities for free to compensate for his chose disability? The Dungeonmaster's guide suggests that an individual who is permaently blind might not have all the penalties for running, combat, etc. but leaves it up to the DM to decide what penalties the character keeps. As a DM, I would gladly give the blind character the blind-fight feat for free- it's logical that being blind all one's life makes them more reliant on their other senses even from an early age, before most characters would have learned or even started trainig in their first feat. I would also expect such a character to spend ranks (possibly at cross-class!) in listen to fit their concept (and they would auto-fail spot checks.) But as a player and DM, I would encourage you NOT to play a blind character unless the DM is cool with it. I was going to play a blind cleric for a game, until I realized that the DM would literally have to describe everything differently to me- as most of his descriptions were visual and my character wouldn't be able to see any of the things he said were there. This would be an extra burden for him, because he'd have to give me descriptions specically tailored for my character, and it would bog down the game. So I didn't play the character.
Exquisite_Flopilidopilies 06-29-06, 12:12 PM	The flaw system in UA gives you a free feat for a flaw you select; I think blindness is at least as severe as any of the ones given there. Maybe I'm influenced by HERO system too much but I absolutely think you should get some compensating factor for being blind. The whole system of class abilities, racial abilities and level adjustment is all about evenly balancing different abilities. Not compensating for the blindness is like saying "Well, sure you're frail, but you're not going to get spellcasting because of it!" when in fact the system provides exactly that. Snowlynx has a really good point about the potential disruptiveness of a blind character, which is a factor to consider for any unusual character. Note, Blind-Fight actually reduces your miss chance in half, since you basically have to miss twice.
VerdugoExplode 06-29-06, 12:49 PM	Sigh, anime claims yet another victim. Chances are that at some point during the game you're going to start forgetting that he's blind. You'll forget that he can't read, that he can never be separated from the party as his ability to find things is extremely limited. Also, if someone casts deafness on him he becomes as useful as your average quadripalegic. And how are you going to tell your friends apart from the enemies when the combat gets serious and people are moving around in a chaotic manner? If you just want it because people will think you're blind then just take some ranks in bluff and walk around with a blindfold in a convincing manner so everyone thinks that he's blind. Maybe get a wizard to casp a permanent alter spell so your eyes are pure white, or look like they're missing entirely, hence people will think you're blind without trying to actually be blind. Seriously though, where are all the clerics in your world? Wouldn't anyone who was blind get remove blindness cast on them? Although it costs money sight is probably one of the most important sense available. A town would probably pool its resources to cure someone of it. And if your character ever got the money why wouldn't he cure himself?
Cifer 06-29-06, 01:45 PM	Sigh, anime claims yet another victim. It might also be classic myths... how many blind seers are there? Blind characters have a place. It's just not in combat-oriented RPG.
Exquisite_Flopilidopilies 06-29-06, 02:11 PM	Sigh, anime claims yet another victim. Personally I was thinking of Zatoichi, but to each their own stereotype, I guess. Seriously though, where are all the clerics in your world? Wouldn't anyone who was blind get remove blindness cast on them? Although it costs money sight is probably one of the most important sense available. A town would probably pool its resources to cure someone of it. And if your character ever got the money why wouldn't he cure himself? This is a really good point, actually. I'm not sure if anyone like a town would automatically care and want to cure you of it, but at some point a cure is going to be staring you in the face. It might make a great story arc that you have a background as a blind person and are eventually cured--it would be the most well-developed background for taking Blind-Fight ever.
Sulaco 06-29-06, 02:28 PM	The Dungeonmaster's guide suggests that an individual who is permaently blind might not have all the penalties for running, combat, etc. but leaves it up to the DM to decide what penalties the character keeps. As a DM, I would gladly give the blind character the blind-fight feat for free- it's logical that being blind all one's life makes them more reliant on their other senses even from an early age, before most characters would have learned or even started trainig in their first feat. I would also expect such a character to spend ranks (possibly at cross-class!) in listen to fit their concept (and they would auto-fail spot checks.) Just cos something is logical doesn't mean it is correct. It is logical that people should live together as peacfully and harmoniously as possible for the good of the entire species but this is far from the truth. It is a popular myth that blind people have their other senses enhanced, but it is still a myth. Scientifc testing has revelaed no such enhancements. A PC can get those enhancements but choosing to take the Blindfight feat, there is no reason he should get it for free. And what about PCs who were not born blind? What if the concept stated that the PC was blinded three weeks before play starts? In meta-terms the character is identical but does he get the free feat? The blind do not automaticlaly become supermen. Blinddess is a disability. Those that overcome it do so through great personal effort and so should any PC who elects to be blind. In D&D terms that personal effort is represented by the skills and feats he chooses to take to compensate for his disability. A CP who does not take those skills and feats is a PC who has not out in any time or effort in overcoming his disability.
Teh_Darkness 06-29-06, 02:53 PM	I dont so much care about wanting to play a blind character I actually am more annoyed that nobody ever wants to play a character with other disabilities. I mean come on you have a plethora disabilities available. Why not a wizard with cerebral palsy that has to roll a arcane spell failure on spells with somatic components. There should never be benefits to taking a disability if you make a blind character you lose your spot checks, and are forced to take blind fight. If you take a disability you are taking it for rp purposes, and if you RP it well then theres the reward
Sulaco 06-29-06, 02:58 PM	but at some point a cure is going to be staring you in the face. Yeah, but he won't see it. He's blind, remember? ;)
Raven Dark 06-29-06, 03:09 PM	i wanted to give my ext charactor a querk, being that he's blind. However, i'm unsure how to balance this out at all. So far my plans were he gets blind fight as an autofeat in replacement for his sight, but that still seems kinda crappy because there's still that glaring 50% miss chance. Can anyone think of a way to make my blind char slightly more balanced? Everything you need to know about making a blind character can be found here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=9509798#post9509798).
Spike_Fightwicky 06-29-06, 03:26 PM	Everything you need to know about making a blind character can be found here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=9509798#post9509798). :clap: :w00t: :clap: I've never seen the thread, but, BRAVO! We should request to have it stickied :D Like Raven Dark mentions in the linked thread, get a reason for why your blindness can't be cured! Honestly, it costs as little as 150 gold pieces to get a cleric to cure the blindness permanently, and if you wouldn't take that option as soon as you have the money, then you're likely not playing your character correctly. No matter how 'cool' it may seem to be blind, I'm positive that any blind person who was offered a chance to have their vision restored would take it.
dreamsofblue 06-29-06, 03:27 PM	I had the joy of playing in a game with a blind character. My DM wanted each of us to play one of the four monster food groups but with an Oriental style theme from the complete series (pre Complete Psionics). The player who wanted to be blind was our samurai (guess which movie she has just finished watching) and only true tank. For balance purposes, the DM decided that he would just give her blindsight. But, he decided that there were some advantages and disadvantages with that. First the range was only 60 feet (fairly standard) and that it only triggered when she heard sound. Kind of like echolocation, clear where the sound came from blurry where it didn't. She had no ability to detect color of any type (which resulted in more role-play than game effect) and textures (granted by the blindsight) where indistinct. She was immune to blindness (such as the spell) and could auto-detect invisible creatures. In contrast she was "blinded" in an area of silence (and took all of the normal penalties) and could not percieve incorporeal creatures. She was not subject to illusions though mundane disguises still fooled her. She got no spot checks at all. The DM declared that she would make a wisdom check if he felt that she needed the chance to notice something (within her 60 foot range). Granted it is the same as a spot check with no ranks but he declared that she couldn't improve it unless she increased her wisdom score. All in all, I would say it was a huge success. Her character was not over the top and the other characters (mine in particular) constantly reminded her of her disablity in small subtle ways. (A favorite was for me to tell her to meet me somewhere that had colors she had to diferentiate, or to tell her to seek out a man carrying a shield with an eagle on it. Since there was not textural difference to the colors of the paint she couldn't see it. She hated me for that.) This whole system worked because we had a good DM that found a way to allow her to use this to her advantage and disadvantage all the time. It was also a more role-play oriented game, though it did have its own hack-n-slash. If you like the idea, let your DM read this and see what they say. ~blue P.S. And for those that want other disabilies. I have a friend that wants to play a sorcerer who wears full-plate and refuses to take the eschew materials feat and I, his partner, want to play a deaf bard. Though he can take his "disability" off he doesnt' want to. We want to do this just for the experience and to see how challenging it can be.
FeceMan 06-29-06, 03:36 PM	i wanted to give my ext charactor a querk, being that he's blind. However, i'm unsure how to balance this out at all. So far my plans were he gets blind fight as an autofeat in replacement for his sight, but that still seems kinda crappy because there's still that glaring 50% miss chance. Can anyone think of a way to make my blind char slightly more balanced? http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=661437
VerdugoExplode 06-29-06, 04:22 PM	Sweet, I now know what I must do next to enhance my roleplaying ability! I'll play a deaf, blind, mute quadripalegic psion. He can use telepathy to communicate to others and use the ability to feel light in order to actually see. However in order to balance these debilititating traits I think that having every ability used automatically maximized seems like a fair tradeoff. Maybe having them lengthened too. This way he's not only balanced but all of these disabilities will make me a better roleplayer! Heck, at later levels he can use telekinesis to move himself around. And when gets really angry he summons a colossal astral construct that may or may not look like a robot to crush his enemies! No, I totally explain it in his backstory, when he was growing up his dad made the construct but was murdered at the hands of an evil organization so the robot now obeys him. Seriously, it's explained in his backstory. What? No I'm not trying to get free feats and equipment! Sigh, what ever happened to the days when character's were defined by their hopes and dreams, their goals and passions. When a character could be compelling without having a vendetta against a group because they killed his parents as he looked on in horror. When the basic archetype wasn't 'dark and brooding, tortured by the memories of his past and out on a mission...of vengeance!' Why don't people actually correct their disabilities? Overcoming adversity is one thing, but when the means of healing are available purposely depriving yourself of them is selfish. It means that you want people to focus on you above others. If everybody accomplishes something then you are all responsible for the bringing of good to the land, but wait, one of them was blind. Surely he must be a better person as he not only conquered the challenge he overcame adversity! If you honestly want to recieve the recognition for being a champion of goodness then donate money to the church to fund the casting of spells on those too poor to afford it instead of trying to make yourself a martyr for a curable condition.