Blind character, ideas? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Blind character, ideas? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Evil O
09-24-04, 08:11 AM Hello fellow players and dm´s alike.

Me and my dm came up wiht this idea of a blind elven ranger or fighter in a campaign. It is offcurse me who is playing him.
He is inspired by mostly two other characters first by Mooshie (the ranger Drizzit meets in one of R A Salvatore´s books) and second by the character plyed by Rutger Hauer in Blind Fury where he plays a soldier who is blinded by a bomb attack and "raised" to be a samurai-type(he is taught using the Katana.)

This elf is born blind, raised in a elven community(surprise!) and early taught to fight with sword and firing a bow, using his ears to guide him. He is given, by a powerfull wizard in the community, a hawk or owl or other flying animal companion, to guide him in combat and everyday life.

I was thus wondering, what might be his penalties, bonusses or other things you can think of? Coulkd it be ok to use penalties like ECL, meaning penalise him 2 or 3 levels? Is that to high a penalty? to low?
Give me your ideas, input and I will try to return with the final result in a few weeks.

Evil O
The Man from Uncle
09-24-04, 08:35 AM Interesting concept. One of my group tried to play something a bit similar once, a technical mute. It ran into some pretty major problems though what with him not being able to speak (and thus cutting him out of 90% of roleplaying).

I can't much advise you on what the rules say, there plenty of people out there with more time for that than me, but i can advise you on a couple of practical ways to make the character at least function in the DnD framework.

1) See if you can swing with your DM some bonuses to listen, maybe even sense motive (fluctuations in voice). Perhaps a bit of natural orientation in terms of distances and directions. You might have an accurate way to measure how far you have walked or be able to give very precise directions to somewhere you've only been to a few times. I am not saying that this is a fair reflection of real life, but its a fair refelction if you are basing a character on an action hero from the TV. Have you considered a bit of Al Pachino in there, he played an old soldior in the film 'Scent of a Woman'.

2) Get the scent feat. I don't think i need to mention getting the blind fighting feat.

3) Fierce independance for a blind character might be tempting, but don't put the DM or other players in a tough spot by refusing their help. You might find its more interesting to play a character with a genuin dependancy on others; it might make your relationship with one or more characters actually deeper.

4) I think blind firing of a ranged weapon (bow or throwing knives) is pretty cool. Not really advice that, just preferance. Might also be more practical if you can only judge their standing position instead of their fighting stance.

5) Think carefully and use well your animal companion. It might be able to make up for you not seeing things yourself.

Good luck
Evil O
09-24-04, 02:29 PM Hey the Scent feat, I did not think of that. Hmmm makes me wonder, could I gain something from reading the core books once more?

And yes, blind-fighting should be there from the beginning!
And yes bonusses on listen and sense motive is important and very usefull.
I was thinking of Al Pacino and ( I know maybe a little to high, but later on) a little Dare Devil´s character? He is very cool. He must be a Monk, right? Or rogue with PrC in Acrobat-thief?

Well, I see a character comming!
Evil O
Elendur
09-24-04, 02:43 PM Negative ecl's could lead to weird things.

Unearthed arcana has a thing called flaws, which are disadvantages that also give you bonus feats. Seems like blindness should be worth at least 2 extra feats(like blindfighting and scent).

There is a psionic power called synesthete that allows you to hear light, but that kind of defeats the purpose.

Granting blindsight out to 10 feet might be reasonable, but it doesn't help with ranged attacks.
Evil O
09-24-04, 02:56 PM Hmmm we dont play with Psionics but the idea could work.
If it allow him to "feel"/"hear" movement and maybe later on have him able to "hear" individuals stance eg. standing straight, crouching, bend to the right or what ever.

Blindsight, is that not just another way of seeing in the dark? But a new feat could be created for that.

Evil O
JabberWocky
09-24-04, 04:46 PM For a level adjustment of +1 or so, you could score Blindsight 30 feet. I'm a little behind on my Savage Species rules, but I think that for every +1 LA, you get +30ft. of Blindsight (or Blindsense, whichever).

Where is this "Scent" feat? As far as I recall there are no nonmonstrous races that can take it, except in Oriental Adventures in the case of the Nezumi.
smileybob1
09-24-04, 05:25 PM A creature can use hearing to find an invisible creature. A character can make a Listen check for this purpose as a free action each round. A Listen check result at least equal to the invisible creature’s Move Silently check result reveals its presence. (A creature with no ranks in Move Silently makes a Move Silently check as a Dexterity check to which an armor check penalty applies.) A successful check lets a character hear an invisible creature “over there somewhere.” It’s practically impossible to pinpoint the location of an invisible creature. A Listen check that beats the DC by 20 pinpoints the invisible creature’s location.

Listen Check DCs to Detect Invisible Creatures
Invisible Creature Is . . . DC
In combat or speaking 0
Moving at half speed Move Silently check result
Moving at full speed Move Silently check result –4
Running or charging Move Silently check result –20
Some distance away +1 per 10 feet
Behind an obstacle +5 to +15
ps dont forget to +1 for every ten feet (its under listen skill)

before we go off and give a character blind sight there are other more realistic approaches. i have thought about playing a blind character several times. first use the chart above for listening checks. and if you are going to play a blind character i do not think that you should get bonuses that other characters do not, you should simply have to invest time to be better at what you are.

listen will have to be your best friend, you already said you are an elf, that is a great start (+2 to listen checks), i also recommend alertness and skill focus feat. your listen should get pretty crazy by 3rd or 4th level. ecspecially with a healthy wisdom score.

blind sight is an incredible ability, probably not something that should casually be given to PCs. however blindsense is much more realistic and could probably be seen as a trade off with you DM as you will never be able to suceed on a search or spot check (sorry mister ranger no tracky for you)
see blindsense srd

Blindsense: Other creatures have blindsense, a lesser ability that lets the creature notice things it cannot see, but without the precision of blindsight. The creature with blindsense usually does not need to make Spot or Listen checks to notice and locate creatures within range of its blindsense ability, provided that it has line of effect to that creature. Any opponent the creature cannot see has total concealment (50% miss chance) against the creature with blindsense, and the blindsensing creature still has the normal miss chance when attacking foes that have concealment. Visibility still affects the movement of a creature with blindsense. A creature with blindsense is still denied its Dexterity bonus to Armor Class against attacks from creatures it cannot see.

as for the scent ability that would be amazing with a blind bowman ranger. my recommendation is in the Book of Exalted deeds, there is a prestige class that eventually gives you scent (its an exalted rangery type class) and there is another class in the new planar handbook (however this one involves planar acts and might not be suited for your character). that being said scent is a really great power, you can track with it and it pretty much functions like blind sight. i would be hesitant to just give it to a pc. maybe you guys could come up with some sort of crazy feat chain. i dont know, hope this was helpful
jagggar
09-24-04, 09:57 PM In the 3.0 DMG, it talks about Scent being worth about 2 feats. It only talked about giving it to half-orcs and halflings IIRC.
undeadsuperman
09-25-04, 01:00 AM I might be in the minority here but if you want to play a blind character then play a blind character. In real life if your blind then you have to train your senses to be better. Well in DnD that means just spending your points in listen and sense smelling is not a skill you have to just go with listen. I just dont like players who say "I want a challenge in roleplaying by being blind" then turn around and want things to make up for it! What kind of bull is that? I think that if you want to be blind then be blind dont ask for hand outs.
Kitzan Ulvatiz
09-25-04, 03:51 AM you could see if you could get an animal companion with an empathic link (spelling?) but only if u wanted to actually have sight if you just want to find ways to function w/o sight then i wouldnt recomend that (written and 1 in teh mornin so excuse me if i totaly messed up concepts)
Evil O
09-25-04, 05:45 AM After reading your cool replies I thought on several things.
First Undeadsuperman:
I just dont like players who say "I want a challenge in roleplaying by being blind" then turn around and want things to make up for it! What kind of bull is that? I think that if you want to be blind then be blind dont ask for hand outs
It has nothing to do with wanting something for me looseing his sight. It has something with flawor and the possibility of having a cool pc for a long time. He might end up like DareDevil, wich is a character I like.

And Blindsense might be better for this purpose, afterall he cant see and blindsight requires you to be able to see just a little.
Feats like Alertness and blindsense might be the best for him.

If I wanted a pc like DareDevil wouldent Monk be the best class, maybe combined with a few Rogue levels?? The Rogue part being movement based, not attacking. Meaning he will NOT gain SA before 5th level? Can that work?

Evil O
anders
09-25-04, 05:51 AM if you are blind you would not get sneak attack at all, since all your opponements would have concealment to you.

There is a priest spell though, that cures blindness..
Fallen_AngelS
09-25-04, 06:14 AM The idea is actualy very interesting.
As most here said, Alertness, Skill Focus, Blindsense, and possibly even a few more we can't think of will be not only useful, but rather needed.

As for the bonus to Listen, sure, it can work, although all the above mentioned feats should represent that, thus not obliging your DM to offer you a bonus for free.

As for Sense Motive, I'll have to disagree. Sense Motive relies on more then voice intonations, it relies on body movement, eye movement, lips tremling, etc. So true, a blind person will have developed a good sense of empathy by hearing people, bt it only seems out of the ordinary, because she doesn't have the added benifit of sight. So in this perspective, I would not give any bonus to Sense Motive, BUT, I wouldn't give any penalty either, which in the case of a temporay blindness I would.

Now of course you COULD do a Daredevil type character, but...well, thats already been done. Your idea of the blind Ranger is a really nice one. I strongly suggest you keep to it. Of course, an interesting twist might occure if you were to meet some monks in game, who might be willing to teach you how to better percieve your environement through special monk techniques (perhaps a monk-like prestige class). Now that could be pretty special. Probably not the most powerful combination out there, but it just might prove interesting enough.

Well this ended being longer then I thought, hoping my input might be of some use.

Gwen
Fallen_AngelS
09-25-04, 06:14 AM Please feel free to ignore this useless second post.

Thank you.

Gwen
BOK2
09-25-04, 11:41 AM You can consider the feat blindsight 5' . Its in Sword & Fist but requires a high wisdom score and I have no idea if it was reprinted in 3.5.
Kapawww!!
09-25-04, 10:43 PM I have been working on a LA+0 template for blindness, with heavy penalties, but alo some very cool bonuses to balace it.

Blindness:
You were born blind.
Penalty:
>You suffer a –8 on all ranged attacks,
> a 50% miss chance to all attacks,
> loose any Dex bonus to AC when attacked by ranged weapons,
> automatically grant a +2 to attacker's ranged attack rolls,
> -4 to search checks, as well as to all Str and Dex based skill checks.
> you can't tell the difference between colors, and you can't detect noncorperal beings.
> You always fail on all spot checks, and you can't have ranks in it (it's never a class skill for you).
> must move at a slower speed than normal (or must make a balance check DC 20, and fall prone if fail). use the table below for determining your speed:

Base speed --- New speed (no balance needed)
30ft. --- 20ft.
20ft. --- 15ft.

Benefit:
> You gain a +8 racial bonus to all listen checks, and can always take a 10 under any circumstance (bonus is lost if deafened)
> Immunity to visual illusions, and gaze attacks, not affected by darkness, and can't tell if a person is invisible or not (but you can tell where they are due to listening)
> You gain the benefits of the Blind-fight feat (re-roll an attack if missed due to concealment)(all other aspects of the feat have been adjusted to the Blindness template already), (bonus is lost if deafened)
> You gain the benefits of the Blindsight, 5-foot radius feat (You can tell were opponents are, but no further than 5ft. away at all times)(all other aspects of the feat have been adjusted to the Blindness template already), (bonus is lost if deafened)

...and also very important:

Listen checks: If you are blind, you need to use the listen skill to "see" your surroundings. The following tables comes in handy:

DC Modifier --- Condition
-5 --- Armor and / or equipment making noise (when person is not using the Move Silently Skill)
+5 ---Through a door
+15 ---Through a stonewall
+1 --- Per 10 feet of distance
+5 ---Listener is distracted
+20 --- Things that hardly make any noise, such as an owl gliding or a heart beating.

DC ---Sound
-10 --- during a battle
0 ---People talking (If you beat the DC by 10 or more, you can make out what’s being said, assuming that you understand the language.)
7 --- get a general idea of where the party is (location) if all are members are making some sort of noise
5 --- A person in medium armor walking at a slow pace (10 ft./round) trying not to make any noise
10 ---An unarmored person walking at a slow pace (15 ft./round) trying not to make any noise
15 --- People whispering (If you beat the DC by 10 or more, you can make out what’s being said, assuming that you understand the language.)
19 --- A cat stalking
27 --- Know exactly where the party is (location) and what they are doing, even if they are making noise or not (if choosing to use the move silently, then an opposed roll is necessary).
30 --- An owl gliding in for a kill
125*--- Notice that a person is 100ft. to your right (on the other side of the stone wall, heading towards you) while you are standing with the party who are arguing over how the treasure will be divided (and listening to what they are saying), and you also notice that the approaching person is undead (heart isn't beating) along with hearing the slight breeze travel through it's body (making it a skeleton, male in fact, due to the shape of the hip bones) and noticing that it's equipped with a helmet, bracers, and two swords (one broken, kept in the scabbard on it's back) and that it's walking with a slight limp on it's left leg).
…oh, and by the way – this is just paying attention to what is to the character's right side.

(How I did it: 100ft. away [+10], through a stone wall [+15], Distracted [+5], three things that hardly make any noise [+20 heart, +20 wind / bones, +20 broken sword in scabbard +20 walks with a limp, +20 noticing what the noisy equipment is = +100], noisy equipment [-5], [10+15+5+100-5= 125]

*: I actually played a blind bard who did things like this. I ended up "seeing" things better than anyone else in the party. It was so much fun! :D
Elendur
09-27-04, 11:06 AM I might be in the minority here but if you want to play a blind character then play a blind character. In real life if your blind then you have to train your senses to be better. Well in DnD that means just spending your points in listen and sense smelling is not a skill you have to just go with listen. I just dont like players who say "I want a challenge in roleplaying by being blind" then turn around and want things to make up for it! What kind of bull is that? I think that if you want to be blind then be blind dont ask for hand outs.Game balance is important. You can't expect one player to play a character several levels lower in power and to have a good time. This isn't real life, it's D&D, and characters should be roughly equivilent in power. Hence the attempt at an ECL 0 blindness template.
The Man from Uncle
09-27-04, 03:15 PM I am not so sure that game balance is all that important. Its convenient if all the characters play a roughly equal part in getting through a quest, but it can be more interesting if there is the odd superhero or a comic (but otherwise pretty useless) sidekick. So i have to say that undeadsuperhuman does have a point. Having said that Evil O's responce is spot on as far as i am concerned. Giving a few extra abilities for being blind will make the character a bit more flavoursome.

I can see that point about sense motive being based on more than sound, but i just kinda think that if a machine can pick up fluctuations in someones speech pattern then a well trained ear can do it too. Probably not much science in that claim, but heck this is fantasy right?
The Man from Uncle
09-27-04, 03:19 PM NB : I often get caught playing the most 'interestingly' balanced character. In other word i like to try lots of variations of multiclassing and often end up being more of an 'interesting' character and less of a 'useful' or 'decent' character. I still loved those characters though.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Evil O 09-24-04, 08:11 AM	Hello fellow players and dm´s alike. Me and my dm came up wiht this idea of a blind elven ranger or fighter in a campaign. It is offcurse me who is playing him. He is inspired by mostly two other characters first by Mooshie (the ranger Drizzit meets in one of R A Salvatore´s books) and second by the character plyed by Rutger Hauer in Blind Fury where he plays a soldier who is blinded by a bomb attack and "raised" to be a samurai-type(he is taught using the Katana.) This elf is born blind, raised in a elven community(surprise!) and early taught to fight with sword and firing a bow, using his ears to guide him. He is given, by a powerfull wizard in the community, a hawk or owl or other flying animal companion, to guide him in combat and everyday life. I was thus wondering, what might be his penalties, bonusses or other things you can think of? Coulkd it be ok to use penalties like ECL, meaning penalise him 2 or 3 levels? Is that to high a penalty? to low? Give me your ideas, input and I will try to return with the final result in a few weeks. Evil O
The Man from Uncle 09-24-04, 08:35 AM	Interesting concept. One of my group tried to play something a bit similar once, a technical mute. It ran into some pretty major problems though what with him not being able to speak (and thus cutting him out of 90% of roleplaying). I can't much advise you on what the rules say, there plenty of people out there with more time for that than me, but i can advise you on a couple of practical ways to make the character at least function in the DnD framework. 1) See if you can swing with your DM some bonuses to listen, maybe even sense motive (fluctuations in voice). Perhaps a bit of natural orientation in terms of distances and directions. You might have an accurate way to measure how far you have walked or be able to give very precise directions to somewhere you've only been to a few times. I am not saying that this is a fair reflection of real life, but its a fair refelction if you are basing a character on an action hero from the TV. Have you considered a bit of Al Pachino in there, he played an old soldior in the film 'Scent of a Woman'. 2) Get the scent feat. I don't think i need to mention getting the blind fighting feat. 3) Fierce independance for a blind character might be tempting, but don't put the DM or other players in a tough spot by refusing their help. You might find its more interesting to play a character with a genuin dependancy on others; it might make your relationship with one or more characters actually deeper. 4) I think blind firing of a ranged weapon (bow or throwing knives) is pretty cool. Not really advice that, just preferance. Might also be more practical if you can only judge their standing position instead of their fighting stance. 5) Think carefully and use well your animal companion. It might be able to make up for you not seeing things yourself. Good luck
Evil O 09-24-04, 02:29 PM	Hey the Scent feat, I did not think of that. Hmmm makes me wonder, could I gain something from reading the core books once more? And yes, blind-fighting should be there from the beginning! And yes bonusses on listen and sense motive is important and very usefull. I was thinking of Al Pacino and ( I know maybe a little to high, but later on) a little Dare Devil´s character? He is very cool. He must be a Monk, right? Or rogue with PrC in Acrobat-thief? Well, I see a character comming! Evil O
Elendur 09-24-04, 02:43 PM	Negative ecl's could lead to weird things. Unearthed arcana has a thing called flaws, which are disadvantages that also give you bonus feats. Seems like blindness should be worth at least 2 extra feats(like blindfighting and scent). There is a psionic power called synesthete that allows you to hear light, but that kind of defeats the purpose. Granting blindsight out to 10 feet might be reasonable, but it doesn't help with ranged attacks.
Evil O 09-24-04, 02:56 PM	Hmmm we dont play with Psionics but the idea could work. If it allow him to "feel"/"hear" movement and maybe later on have him able to "hear" individuals stance eg. standing straight, crouching, bend to the right or what ever. Blindsight, is that not just another way of seeing in the dark? But a new feat could be created for that. Evil O
JabberWocky 09-24-04, 04:46 PM	For a level adjustment of +1 or so, you could score Blindsight 30 feet. I'm a little behind on my Savage Species rules, but I think that for every +1 LA, you get +30ft. of Blindsight (or Blindsense, whichever). Where is this "Scent" feat? As far as I recall there are no nonmonstrous races that can take it, except in Oriental Adventures in the case of the Nezumi.
smileybob1 09-24-04, 05:25 PM	A creature can use hearing to find an invisible creature. A character can make a Listen check for this purpose as a free action each round. A Listen check result at least equal to the invisible creature’s Move Silently check result reveals its presence. (A creature with no ranks in Move Silently makes a Move Silently check as a Dexterity check to which an armor check penalty applies.) A successful check lets a character hear an invisible creature “over there somewhere.” It’s practically impossible to pinpoint the location of an invisible creature. A Listen check that beats the DC by 20 pinpoints the invisible creature’s location. Listen Check DCs to Detect Invisible Creatures Invisible Creature Is . . . DC In combat or speaking 0 Moving at half speed Move Silently check result Moving at full speed Move Silently check result –4 Running or charging Move Silently check result –20 Some distance away +1 per 10 feet Behind an obstacle +5 to +15 ps dont forget to +1 for every ten feet (its under listen skill) before we go off and give a character blind sight there are other more realistic approaches. i have thought about playing a blind character several times. first use the chart above for listening checks. and if you are going to play a blind character i do not think that you should get bonuses that other characters do not, you should simply have to invest time to be better at what you are. listen will have to be your best friend, you already said you are an elf, that is a great start (+2 to listen checks), i also recommend alertness and skill focus feat. your listen should get pretty crazy by 3rd or 4th level. ecspecially with a healthy wisdom score. blind sight is an incredible ability, probably not something that should casually be given to PCs. however blindsense is much more realistic and could probably be seen as a trade off with you DM as you will never be able to suceed on a search or spot check (sorry mister ranger no tracky for you) see blindsense srd Blindsense: Other creatures have blindsense, a lesser ability that lets the creature notice things it cannot see, but without the precision of blindsight. The creature with blindsense usually does not need to make Spot or Listen checks to notice and locate creatures within range of its blindsense ability, provided that it has line of effect to that creature. Any opponent the creature cannot see has total concealment (50% miss chance) against the creature with blindsense, and the blindsensing creature still has the normal miss chance when attacking foes that have concealment. Visibility still affects the movement of a creature with blindsense. A creature with blindsense is still denied its Dexterity bonus to Armor Class against attacks from creatures it cannot see. as for the scent ability that would be amazing with a blind bowman ranger. my recommendation is in the Book of Exalted deeds, there is a prestige class that eventually gives you scent (its an exalted rangery type class) and there is another class in the new planar handbook (however this one involves planar acts and might not be suited for your character). that being said scent is a really great power, you can track with it and it pretty much functions like blind sight. i would be hesitant to just give it to a pc. maybe you guys could come up with some sort of crazy feat chain. i dont know, hope this was helpful
jagggar 09-24-04, 09:57 PM	In the 3.0 DMG, it talks about Scent being worth about 2 feats. It only talked about giving it to half-orcs and halflings IIRC.
undeadsuperman 09-25-04, 01:00 AM	I might be in the minority here but if you want to play a blind character then play a blind character. In real life if your blind then you have to train your senses to be better. Well in DnD that means just spending your points in listen and sense smelling is not a skill you have to just go with listen. I just dont like players who say "I want a challenge in roleplaying by being blind" then turn around and want things to make up for it! What kind of bull is that? I think that if you want to be blind then be blind dont ask for hand outs.
Kitzan Ulvatiz 09-25-04, 03:51 AM	you could see if you could get an animal companion with an empathic link (spelling?) but only if u wanted to actually have sight if you just want to find ways to function w/o sight then i wouldnt recomend that (written and 1 in teh mornin so excuse me if i totaly messed up concepts)
Evil O 09-25-04, 05:45 AM	After reading your cool replies I thought on several things. First Undeadsuperman: I just dont like players who say "I want a challenge in roleplaying by being blind" then turn around and want things to make up for it! What kind of bull is that? I think that if you want to be blind then be blind dont ask for hand outs It has nothing to do with wanting something for me looseing his sight. It has something with flawor and the possibility of having a cool pc for a long time. He might end up like DareDevil, wich is a character I like. And Blindsense might be better for this purpose, afterall he cant see and blindsight requires you to be able to see just a little. Feats like Alertness and blindsense might be the best for him. If I wanted a pc like DareDevil wouldent Monk be the best class, maybe combined with a few Rogue levels?? The Rogue part being movement based, not attacking. Meaning he will NOT gain SA before 5th level? Can that work? Evil O
anders 09-25-04, 05:51 AM	if you are blind you would not get sneak attack at all, since all your opponements would have concealment to you. There is a priest spell though, that cures blindness..
Fallen_AngelS 09-25-04, 06:14 AM	The idea is actualy very interesting. As most here said, Alertness, Skill Focus, Blindsense, and possibly even a few more we can't think of will be not only useful, but rather needed. As for the bonus to Listen, sure, it can work, although all the above mentioned feats should represent that, thus not obliging your DM to offer you a bonus for free. As for Sense Motive, I'll have to disagree. Sense Motive relies on more then voice intonations, it relies on body movement, eye movement, lips tremling, etc. So true, a blind person will have developed a good sense of empathy by hearing people, bt it only seems out of the ordinary, because she doesn't have the added benifit of sight. So in this perspective, I would not give any bonus to Sense Motive, BUT, I wouldn't give any penalty either, which in the case of a temporay blindness I would. Now of course you COULD do a Daredevil type character, but...well, thats already been done. Your idea of the blind Ranger is a really nice one. I strongly suggest you keep to it. Of course, an interesting twist might occure if you were to meet some monks in game, who might be willing to teach you how to better percieve your environement through special monk techniques (perhaps a monk-like prestige class). Now that could be pretty special. Probably not the most powerful combination out there, but it just might prove interesting enough. Well this ended being longer then I thought, hoping my input might be of some use. Gwen
Fallen_AngelS 09-25-04, 06:14 AM	Please feel free to ignore this useless second post. Thank you. Gwen
BOK2 09-25-04, 11:41 AM	You can consider the feat blindsight 5' . Its in Sword & Fist but requires a high wisdom score and I have no idea if it was reprinted in 3.5.
Kapawww!! 09-25-04, 10:43 PM	I have been working on a LA+0 template for blindness, with heavy penalties, but alo some very cool bonuses to balace it. Blindness: You were born blind. Penalty: >You suffer a –8 on all ranged attacks, > a 50% miss chance to all attacks, > loose any Dex bonus to AC when attacked by ranged weapons, > automatically grant a +2 to attacker's ranged attack rolls, > -4 to search checks, as well as to all Str and Dex based skill checks. > you can't tell the difference between colors, and you can't detect noncorperal beings. > You always fail on all spot checks, and you can't have ranks in it (it's never a class skill for you). > must move at a slower speed than normal (or must make a balance check DC 20, and fall prone if fail). use the table below for determining your speed: Base speed --- New speed (no balance needed) 30ft. --- 20ft. 20ft. --- 15ft. Benefit: > You gain a +8 racial bonus to all listen checks, and can always take a 10 under any circumstance (bonus is lost if deafened) > Immunity to visual illusions, and gaze attacks, not affected by darkness, and can't tell if a person is invisible or not (but you can tell where they are due to listening) > You gain the benefits of the Blind-fight feat (re-roll an attack if missed due to concealment)(all other aspects of the feat have been adjusted to the Blindness template already), (bonus is lost if deafened) > You gain the benefits of the Blindsight, 5-foot radius feat (You can tell were opponents are, but no further than 5ft. away at all times)(all other aspects of the feat have been adjusted to the Blindness template already), (bonus is lost if deafened) ...and also very important: Listen checks: If you are blind, you need to use the listen skill to "see" your surroundings. The following tables comes in handy: DC Modifier --- Condition -5 --- Armor and / or equipment making noise (when person is not using the Move Silently Skill) +5 ---Through a door +15 ---Through a stonewall +1 --- Per 10 feet of distance +5 ---Listener is distracted +20 --- Things that hardly make any noise, such as an owl gliding or a heart beating. DC ---Sound -10 --- during a battle 0 ---People talking (If you beat the DC by 10 or more, you can make out what’s being said, assuming that you understand the language.) 7 --- get a general idea of where the party is (location) if all are members are making some sort of noise 5 --- A person in medium armor walking at a slow pace (10 ft./round) trying not to make any noise 10 ---An unarmored person walking at a slow pace (15 ft./round) trying not to make any noise 15 --- People whispering (If you beat the DC by 10 or more, you can make out what’s being said, assuming that you understand the language.) 19 --- A cat stalking 27 --- Know exactly where the party is (location) and what they are doing, even if they are making noise or not (if choosing to use the move silently, then an opposed roll is necessary). 30 --- An owl gliding in for a kill 125--- Notice that a person is 100ft. to your right (on the other side of the stone wall, heading towards you) while you are standing with the party who are arguing over how the treasure will be divided (and listening to what they are saying), and you also notice that the approaching person is undead (heart isn't beating) along with hearing the slight breeze travel through it's body (making it a skeleton, male in fact, due to the shape of the hip bones) and noticing that it's equipped with a helmet, bracers, and two swords (one broken, kept in the scabbard on it's back) and that it's walking with a slight limp on it's left leg). …oh, and by the way – this is just paying attention to what is to the character's right side. (How I did it: 100ft. away [+10], through a stone wall [+15], Distracted [+5], three things that hardly make any noise [+20 heart, +20 wind / bones, +20 broken sword in scabbard +20 walks with a limp, +20 noticing what the noisy equipment is = +100], noisy equipment [-5], [10+15+5+100-5= 125] : I actually played a blind bard who did things like this. I ended up "seeing" things better than anyone else in the party. It was so much fun! :D
Elendur 09-27-04, 11:06 AM	I might be in the minority here but if you want to play a blind character then play a blind character. In real life if your blind then you have to train your senses to be better. Well in DnD that means just spending your points in listen and sense smelling is not a skill you have to just go with listen. I just dont like players who say "I want a challenge in roleplaying by being blind" then turn around and want things to make up for it! What kind of bull is that? I think that if you want to be blind then be blind dont ask for hand outs.Game balance is important. You can't expect one player to play a character several levels lower in power and to have a good time. This isn't real life, it's D&D, and characters should be roughly equivilent in power. Hence the attempt at an ECL 0 blindness template.
The Man from Uncle 09-27-04, 03:15 PM	I am not so sure that game balance is all that important. Its convenient if all the characters play a roughly equal part in getting through a quest, but it can be more interesting if there is the odd superhero or a comic (but otherwise pretty useless) sidekick. So i have to say that undeadsuperhuman does have a point. Having said that Evil O's responce is spot on as far as i am concerned. Giving a few extra abilities for being blind will make the character a bit more flavoursome. I can see that point about sense motive being based on more than sound, but i just kinda think that if a machine can pick up fluctuations in someones speech pattern then a well trained ear can do it too. Probably not much science in that claim, but heck this is fantasy right?
The Man from Uncle 09-27-04, 03:19 PM	NB : I often get caught playing the most 'interestingly' balanced character. In other word i like to try lots of variations of multiclassing and often end up being more of an 'interesting' character and less of a 'useful' or 'decent' character. I still loved those characters though.