Blind Swordsman - [Help] [Archive] - Wizards Community

Blind Swordsman - [Help] [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
MarkusCryst
12-01-07, 12:07 AM I'm trying to create a blind swordsman but I have no idea if there is anything in the rules for that.

I figured this out:

Blind-fight
Replace some Spot with Listen

Anything else?
Toran_A_Sunder
12-01-07, 12:23 AM Blind folds work. :D
CryoSilver
12-01-07, 12:28 AM Let me lay it out straight: being blind sucks. Blind people don't fight with swords. They tap around with canes.

Blinded

The character cannot see. He takes a -2 penalty to Armor Class, loses his Dexterity bonus to AC (if any), moves at half speed, and takes a -4 penalty on Search checks and on most Strength- and Dexterity-based skill checks. All checks and activities that rely on vision (such as reading and Spot checks) automatically fail. All opponents are considered to have total concealment (50% miss chance) to the blinded character. Characters who remain blinded for a long time grow accustomed to these drawbacks and can overcome some of them.

This is what your character is dealing with. Build a fighter around that. Or, as I have previously suggested in other threads like this, say this: "My character has overcome his blindness to such an extraordinary degree that it is as though he isn't blind at all!" and play a normal character who is RPed as being blind. Give up a feat to do this, as you are now effectively immune to blinding.
Cartigan
12-01-07, 12:44 AM Let me lay it out straight: being blind sucks. Blind people don't fight with swords. They tap around with canes.
Unless they are Zatoichi.
Midnight_v
12-01-07, 12:51 AM Warblades can walk around in a blindsight stance...
MarkusCryst
12-01-07, 12:52 AM Unless they are Zatoichi.

I actually just watched that movie...I was going to use a Swordsage from Tome of Battle.
CryoSilver
12-01-07, 12:57 AM Warblades can walk around in a blindsight stance...

BlindSENSE, which isn't as good. And that ability isn't available until level 10.
Fireclave
12-01-07, 01:21 AM Without getting freebies from your DM, playing a blind fighter is hard. But that's part of the challenge, right?

Blindfight is a good start, and is one of the prereqs for the Blindsight, 5ft Radius (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/divine/divineAbilitiesFeats.htm#blindsight5FtRa dius) feat, which would allow you to at least fight toe-to-toe in melee with creatures that are close to you.

The Keen-Eared Scout feat (PH2) allows you to get much more use out of the Listen skill, including the ability to pinpoint a creature's location if you roll high enough, or even what it's carrying (I can hear you're carrying a reach weapon :D).

These feats together will at least allow you close in and engage opponents in melee and still be effective.

Also, the Tactile Trapsmith feat (CAdv) allows you to ignore darkness and blindness when using Search and Disable Device, which would be pretty nifty if you decided to play a blind rogue swordsman and still wanted to be an effective trapsmith.

Though I recommend getting some kind of supernatural sensory ability. Singled classed Psychic Warriors make excellent swordsmen can learn Touchsight (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/touchsight.htm) via Expanded Knowledge as early as 11th level. Battle Sorcerers can learn Dragonsight (SC), which grants long-duration blindsense (though not blindsight), at 11th level as well. Clerics and Druids have access to the Blindsight and Greater Blindsight spells as 3rd and 4th levels spells respectively. The Tremorsense spell (SC) is also available to rangers, wizards, and sorcerers as well.

You might want to also invest in some sort of "helper monkey" who can see for you and communicate that information intelligently. (Improved) Familiars, psycrystals, cohorts, and intelligent items would all work.

That's all I got off the top of my head. Hope that helps.
12Shark
12-01-07, 02:12 AM Unless you're using Tome of Battle. Or Magic Item Compendium.

In which case it's easy. The 'Hearing the Air' Diamond Mind (not sure, but it's definitely DM) stance gives you a 30' Blindsense, which can be up all day - although it'll lock you out of using other stances, unfortunately.

The alternative is the 'Blindfold of True Darkness', a 9000gp magic item from Magic Item Compendium that gives you Blindsight to 60', at the cost of all sight-related powers.
CryoSilver
12-01-07, 02:18 AM Hearing the Air is Diamond Mind, but it is also level 5, meaning the earliest it can be gotten is level 9.
DrMorganes
12-01-07, 10:12 AM The alternative is the 'Blindfold of True Darkness', a 9000gp magic item from Magic Item Compendium that gives you Blindsight to 60', at the cost of all sight-related powers.

And using the standard rules for character wealth, this item should be completely unavailable to you until 7th or 8th level, depending on whether your DM likes "no more than half" or "no more than one third" of your wealth in any single item. You'll be much higher level than that before you can comfortably afford one.

Point here is that a blind PC is a seriously handicapped PC for a good portion of his career. Blind character concepts are not cool. They are not clever. Abilities and magic that overcome blindness are only appropriate to high-level characters. Those blind masters you always see in the kung-fu movies? There's a reason they're all old men. If you pay attention, you'll also see they are attended by at least one helper and live within the protective peace of a remote and highly fortified monastery. Besides, magic to cure blindness is available two levels earlier than that blindfold. Cure Blindness is a 3rd level spell that completely cures all forms of blindness - natural and magical - short of having one's eyes physically removed from one's head.

A secondary point is that basing D&D characters on anime is a bad idea. The anime concept of "start strong and build to godlike" is completely at odds with D&D's level-based progression, which runs something like "start normal and build to legendary".
Prator_The_Golden
12-01-07, 11:11 AM Actually, some clever forumites took the time to come up with some pretty good rules for how to play a blind person, without losing too many of the abilities of a seeing person.

http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=939995&highlight=blind+PC%27s+association

Enjoy!
LCD2YOU
12-02-07, 09:01 PM Make Spot a N/A skill and Listen a Class Skill. 1st level Human Fighter, have INT and WIS be the second and third highest stats, Int=14, Wis=14:

Feats: Blind Fight, Skill Focus-Listen, Weapon Focus
Skills Ranks Feat Stat:
Listen +4 +2 +2 = 8
Search +4 +0 +2 = 6
Whatever you want for the other 12 points.

The issue I have with the other thread that was shown is that for 150gp (the cost of Cure Blindness), all of those "freebies" stay with the character. Besides, if there is a powerful enough curse that keeps the PC blind, the caster would be none to pleased to see it circumvented.

Make your blind character but have a 40page backstory on it at a minimum and still be ready to roll up a new character when ranged weapons are used against them.
Mock26
12-03-07, 12:01 AM Let me lay it out straight: being blind sucks. Blind people don't fight with swords. They tap around with canes.

Sure they do. They just hide the swords in their canes.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v249/Mock26/blind_fury.jpg
12Shark
12-03-07, 01:32 AM Yeah - at the end of the day doing a blind character requires you to be powerful enough to take a level in badass.

In fact, you should probably put the blind swordsman on the back burner for a while, and boot him up when you're just hitting around 9th or so. It's still in the 'sweet spot', and it's quite reasonable to suggest that the only blind swordsmen still alive have spent so much time perfecting their badassness that they're just that good. Or even just the whole 'perfected their art of blind fighting and don't use sight to fight anymore' stuff.

Sorta like how only a small fraction of 1st level adventurers live to be 2nd level, only much smaller.
LCD2YOU
12-03-07, 11:35 AM Sure they do. They just hide the swords in their canes.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v249/Mock26/blind_fury.jpg Heh, I remember that movie.

But I also remember, correct me if I'm wrong, that the character was not always blind.
Lionhearted
12-03-07, 01:42 PM Gotta love the blind master from Quissental Monk
gives sweet stuff like +30 to listen, blindsight and the power to turn others blind
"It is I! the blind kung fu master hiyaaa"
http://youtube.com/watch?v=wG6sdX3lvEo&feature=related
Mock26
12-03-07, 04:27 PM Heh, I remember that movie.

But I also remember, correct me if I'm wrong, that the character was not always blind.

The movie started out with him not being blind. It started with him as a soldier in Vietnam and he lost his sight in combat and was rescued by some villagers, one of whom was a swordmaster and trained him while he was blind.
Another_Poet
12-03-07, 04:56 PM (oops! duplicate post, see below)
Another_Poet
12-03-07, 05:01 PM LCD, it was not shown that those freebies stay with the blind character if the blindness is cured. In fact, it was stated multiple times on that thread--directly to you and wrecan as I recall--that the character loses the benefits of the Blind PC starting package as soon as they lose blindness. In case you didn't see it before, I am telling you now (as the author of the "freebies") that the Blind PC Starting Package (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=14101847#post14101847)onl y benefits blind characters, and ceases to function should they become sighted.

And, I am also stating for the record that it is the most awesome, balanced, and fun way to build blind PCs yet posted on the web. Check it out! (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=939995)

AP

Aside to MarkusCyst: when you get your blind swordsman statted out, please feel free to post it in that thread as part of the Blind PC Sound-off. We only have a few characters posted there right now but I would love to have a long list of examples of blind characters. Don't let others discourage you, it's a fun idea for a PC!

The issue I have with the other thread that was shown is that for 150gp (the cost of Cure Blindness), all of those "freebies" stay with the character. Besides, if there is a powerful enough curse that keeps the PC blind, the caster would be none to pleased to see it circumvented.
LCD2YOU
12-03-07, 07:41 PM LCD, it was not shown that those freebies stay with the blind character if the blindness is cured. In fact, it was stated multiple times on that thread--directly to you and wrecan as I recall--that the character loses the benefits of the Blind PC starting package as soon as they lose blindness. In case you didn't see it before, I am telling you now (as the author of the "freebies") that the Blind PC Starting Package (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=14101847#post14101847)onl y benefits blind characters, and ceases to function should they become sighted.Oh, I remember and I think it was when wrecan who pointed that out and you did change things.

The problem is, being blind will suck and to make things "easier" means watering the drawbacks down. As CyroSilver pointed out, being blind would suck.And, I am also stating for the record that it is the most awesome, balanced, and fun way to build blind PCs yet posted on the web. Check it out! (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=939995)

AP

Aside to MarkusCyst: when you get your blind swordsman statted out, please feel free to post it in that thread as part of the Blind PC Sound-off. We only have a few characters posted there right now but I would love to have a long list of examples of blind characters. Don't let others discourage you, it's a fun idea for a PC!I still don't see how playing a character and giving them even more things in a system that is already weak when it points out the problems a blind person has is something to crow about.

Want to really shine MarkusCyst?

Play a blind human character starting out 1st level right out of PHB and make it to second level. I don't think I could do it. See, unlike what Another_Poet may think, I'm not saying that you can't play a blind character. What I am and have been saying is that it is tough.

Things to consider:

1: Why is your character blind?

2: Why can't a 3rd level spell fix it?

3: Why can't Regeneration fix it?

4: Why would some "Master" waste their time training someone who will take almost constant training for years if they can even survive tests that a sighted person can pass with ease?

5: Is your character possessed of super-human abilities? Seems to be that a character whose lowest stat is 14 would be eligible for such considerations.

6 Do you have a detailed back history for your PC? What especially would be great are the reasons the PC got this special training.

7: I have no trouble with "special training" for PCs. The thing is such a PC coming out of such training would not be 1st level.
Vaelan
12-04-07, 03:03 AM Take a look at the Combat Focus line in the PHB2. It eventually grants blindsight... at a sufficiently bad-ass level.
Calium
12-04-07, 03:33 AM Honestly I would just RP it as having no sight and as a DM rule that anything that would blind you is considered to cause slight enough distortions to were you cant function fully and appear disoriented (as would someone that was blinded would act).
metalmayhem80110
12-06-07, 03:24 AM Um, it might not *quite* fit into your concept, but why not try and get tremorsense? That is pretty close to what you need. Flyers would mess you up though.

You might concider some levels of psion, that way you can throw up touchsight. Which would be perfect for this, and you'd get some other cool powers.

It'd kinda take away from your full melee power, but in exchange you'd gain some things that'd allow you to survive.

(Plus you'd be able to qualify for psionic feats. Up the walls and Speed of thought, w00t!)
wrecan
12-06-07, 10:04 AM Here are the blindness rules I posted in Another_Poet's thread:
Wrecan's Blind Character Rules
Sight-based Skills. You automatically fail all Skill Checks involving Decipher Script, Disguise, Forgery or Spot, as well as Spellcraft or Use Magic Device when used on scrolls, books or other items that rely on writing.
Sight-related Skills. You suffer a -4 penalty to all Skill checks except Knowledge, Listen, Move Silently, Perform and any Craft or Profession that doesn't involve sight in any way.
Didn't See It Coming. You are always denied Dex bonuses to AC and suffer a -2 penalty to AC above that.
Movement. You move at half-speed, unless you are in a place you know intimately. With the Accelerated Movement rule for Balance, you can move at full speed if you roll a Balance check of DC 15, not including the usual -4 penalty on Balance and not including surface or other modifiers. A failure by 4 or less means you can�t move for 1 round. A failure by 5 or more means you fall. You cannot take 10 on this roll.
Inoffensive. You have a 50% miss chance whenever you attack a foe, assuming you can discern the square in which they are. All your foes always have total concealment with respect to your actions.
Listen-Dependent. To discern the location of a foe, you must always (as in, every time you take an action with respect to that foe, even if that is multiple actions in the same round) roll a Listen check against the DC for hearing the person, at a -20 penalty (per the description of the invisibility ability).
Illiterate. You cannot take any levels in a class that depends on writing, such as Wizard.
Immunity. You are immune to gaze attacks and effects that rely entirely on light or vision as if you had total concealment, including explosive runes, but not symbol.
Guide Animal. An animal can be trained to serve as a guide animal. "Guide" is a trick under the Handle Animal Skill rules. This allows the blind person to use verbal commands to get the animal to guide the person. The DC to teach this trick is 15 (and blind people suffer the -4 penalty during training). The DC for getting the animal to guide is the standard DC 10, and the blind person does not suffer the standard -4 skill check penalty. Guided blind people do not suffer half movement, but they must share the same square as their animal at all times, whether mounted on the animal, or squeezed in the animal's space. The trained animal cannot not be more than one size category larger or smaller than the blind person.
Braille. Braille may be taken as a bonus language. However, few people can read Braille, even blind people. It can be deciphered like any other language, and no known scrolls or spells are written in Braille. Commissioning a sighted person (or a blind person using spells like clairvoyance) to make braille spellbooks, scrolls and books should incur an increased price as if commissioning any writing in a rare language.
Magic Assistance for the Sight-Impaired. Some spells can ameliorate the effects of blindness, including clairvoyance. While such spells are active, all check penalties for blindness are halved, the character may use any Skill (even those relying on sight) and the character is no longer flatfooted due to blindness. The character, however, is subject to gaze attacks and attacks relying on light and vision.

Most blind characters will try to overcome some of these penalties with the Blind-Fighting Feat and by loading up on Listen. I would also allow the following customized feats (or, alternately, Skill Tricks (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20070105a&page=5)):

Blind Combat: (Pre-Requisite Blind Fighting as Feat, or Balance and Tumble 5 ranks as Skill Trick). If you roll a successful Listen check to discern the location of a foe, you are no longer denied Dexterity bonuses to AC or the additional -2 penalty as to attacks from that foe (until he moves and a subsequent Listen check fails). (Sighted characters gain this benefit against invisible foes, while in darkness and against characters who are concealed.)

Blind Skill: (Pre-Requisite Skill Focus as Feat or Sleight of Hand 5 ranks as Skill Trick). You no longer suffer the -4 penalty when performing this skill blind. If the blindness is cured, you gain no benefits and the Feat slot remains occupied (just in case you ever subsequently blinded). The Feat applies to a single skill in which the character has SKill Focus, and each time it is taken, it must be assigned to a different Skill.

Echolocate: (Pre-requisite Skill Focus (Listen) as Feat, or Listen 8 ranks as Skill Trick). +10 bonus to Listen checks to discern the square in which target is located (effectively halving the penalty). Sighted people can also use this for finding invisible and concealed creatures.

Steady Shuffle: (no pre-requisite for Feat, Tumble and Jump 5 ranks as Skill Trick) You no longer suffer the -4 penalty to your Balance check when using the Accelerated Movement tactic. Sighted people gain the very same benefit for treacherous terrain.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
MarkusCryst 12-01-07, 12:07 AM	I'm trying to create a blind swordsman but I have no idea if there is anything in the rules for that. I figured this out: Blind-fight Replace some Spot with Listen Anything else?
Toran_A_Sunder 12-01-07, 12:23 AM	Blind folds work. :D
CryoSilver 12-01-07, 12:28 AM	Let me lay it out straight: being blind sucks. Blind people don't fight with swords. They tap around with canes. Blinded The character cannot see. He takes a -2 penalty to Armor Class, loses his Dexterity bonus to AC (if any), moves at half speed, and takes a -4 penalty on Search checks and on most Strength- and Dexterity-based skill checks. All checks and activities that rely on vision (such as reading and Spot checks) automatically fail. All opponents are considered to have total concealment (50% miss chance) to the blinded character. Characters who remain blinded for a long time grow accustomed to these drawbacks and can overcome some of them. This is what your character is dealing with. Build a fighter around that. Or, as I have previously suggested in other threads like this, say this: "My character has overcome his blindness to such an extraordinary degree that it is as though he isn't blind at all!" and play a normal character who is RPed as being blind. Give up a feat to do this, as you are now effectively immune to blinding.
Cartigan 12-01-07, 12:44 AM	Let me lay it out straight: being blind sucks. Blind people don't fight with swords. They tap around with canes. Unless they are Zatoichi.
Midnight_v 12-01-07, 12:51 AM	Warblades can walk around in a blindsight stance...
MarkusCryst 12-01-07, 12:52 AM	Unless they are Zatoichi. I actually just watched that movie...I was going to use a Swordsage from Tome of Battle.
CryoSilver 12-01-07, 12:57 AM	Warblades can walk around in a blindsight stance... BlindSENSE, which isn't as good. And that ability isn't available until level 10.
Fireclave 12-01-07, 01:21 AM	Without getting freebies from your DM, playing a blind fighter is hard. But that's part of the challenge, right? Blindfight is a good start, and is one of the prereqs for the Blindsight, 5ft Radius (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/divine/divineAbilitiesFeats.htm#blindsight5FtRa dius) feat, which would allow you to at least fight toe-to-toe in melee with creatures that are close to you. The Keen-Eared Scout feat (PH2) allows you to get much more use out of the Listen skill, including the ability to pinpoint a creature's location if you roll high enough, or even what it's carrying (I can hear you're carrying a reach weapon :D). These feats together will at least allow you close in and engage opponents in melee and still be effective. Also, the Tactile Trapsmith feat (CAdv) allows you to ignore darkness and blindness when using Search and Disable Device, which would be pretty nifty if you decided to play a blind rogue swordsman and still wanted to be an effective trapsmith. Though I recommend getting some kind of supernatural sensory ability. Singled classed Psychic Warriors make excellent swordsmen can learn Touchsight (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/touchsight.htm) via Expanded Knowledge as early as 11th level. Battle Sorcerers can learn Dragonsight (SC), which grants long-duration blindsense (though not blindsight), at 11th level as well. Clerics and Druids have access to the Blindsight and Greater Blindsight spells as 3rd and 4th levels spells respectively. The Tremorsense spell (SC) is also available to rangers, wizards, and sorcerers as well. You might want to also invest in some sort of "helper monkey" who can see for you and communicate that information intelligently. (Improved) Familiars, psycrystals, cohorts, and intelligent items would all work. That's all I got off the top of my head. Hope that helps.
12Shark 12-01-07, 02:12 AM	Unless you're using Tome of Battle. Or Magic Item Compendium. In which case it's easy. The 'Hearing the Air' Diamond Mind (not sure, but it's definitely DM) stance gives you a 30' Blindsense, which can be up all day - although it'll lock you out of using other stances, unfortunately. The alternative is the 'Blindfold of True Darkness', a 9000gp magic item from Magic Item Compendium that gives you Blindsight to 60', at the cost of all sight-related powers.
CryoSilver 12-01-07, 02:18 AM	Hearing the Air is Diamond Mind, but it is also level 5, meaning the earliest it can be gotten is level 9.
DrMorganes 12-01-07, 10:12 AM	The alternative is the 'Blindfold of True Darkness', a 9000gp magic item from Magic Item Compendium that gives you Blindsight to 60', at the cost of all sight-related powers. And using the standard rules for character wealth, this item should be completely unavailable to you until 7th or 8th level, depending on whether your DM likes "no more than half" or "no more than one third" of your wealth in any single item. You'll be much higher level than that before you can comfortably afford one. Point here is that a blind PC is a seriously handicapped PC for a good portion of his career. Blind character concepts are not cool. They are not clever. Abilities and magic that overcome blindness are only appropriate to high-level characters. Those blind masters you always see in the kung-fu movies? There's a reason they're all old men. If you pay attention, you'll also see they are attended by at least one helper and live within the protective peace of a remote and highly fortified monastery. Besides, magic to cure blindness is available two levels earlier than that blindfold. Cure Blindness is a 3rd level spell that completely cures all forms of blindness - natural and magical - short of having one's eyes physically removed from one's head. A secondary point is that basing D&D characters on anime is a bad idea. The anime concept of "start strong and build to godlike" is completely at odds with D&D's level-based progression, which runs something like "start normal and build to legendary".
Prator_The_Golden 12-01-07, 11:11 AM	Actually, some clever forumites took the time to come up with some pretty good rules for how to play a blind person, without losing too many of the abilities of a seeing person. http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=939995&highlight=blind+PC%27s+association Enjoy!
LCD2YOU 12-02-07, 09:01 PM	Make Spot a N/A skill and Listen a Class Skill. 1st level Human Fighter, have INT and WIS be the second and third highest stats, Int=14, Wis=14: Feats: Blind Fight, Skill Focus-Listen, Weapon Focus Skills Ranks Feat Stat: Listen +4 +2 +2 = 8 Search +4 +0 +2 = 6 Whatever you want for the other 12 points. The issue I have with the other thread that was shown is that for 150gp (the cost of Cure Blindness), all of those "freebies" stay with the character. Besides, if there is a powerful enough curse that keeps the PC blind, the caster would be none to pleased to see it circumvented. Make your blind character but have a 40page backstory on it at a minimum and still be ready to roll up a new character when ranged weapons are used against them.
Mock26 12-03-07, 12:01 AM	Let me lay it out straight: being blind sucks. Blind people don't fight with swords. They tap around with canes. Sure they do. They just hide the swords in their canes. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v249/Mock26/blind_fury.jpg
12Shark 12-03-07, 01:32 AM	Yeah - at the end of the day doing a blind character requires you to be powerful enough to take a level in badass. In fact, you should probably put the blind swordsman on the back burner for a while, and boot him up when you're just hitting around 9th or so. It's still in the 'sweet spot', and it's quite reasonable to suggest that the only blind swordsmen still alive have spent so much time perfecting their badassness that they're just that good. Or even just the whole 'perfected their art of blind fighting and don't use sight to fight anymore' stuff. Sorta like how only a small fraction of 1st level adventurers live to be 2nd level, only much smaller.
LCD2YOU 12-03-07, 11:35 AM	Sure they do. They just hide the swords in their canes. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v249/Mock26/blind_fury.jpg Heh, I remember that movie. But I also remember, correct me if I'm wrong, that the character was not always blind.
Lionhearted 12-03-07, 01:42 PM	Gotta love the blind master from Quissental Monk gives sweet stuff like +30 to listen, blindsight and the power to turn others blind "It is I! the blind kung fu master hiyaaa" http://youtube.com/watch?v=wG6sdX3lvEo&feature=related
Mock26 12-03-07, 04:27 PM	Heh, I remember that movie. But I also remember, correct me if I'm wrong, that the character was not always blind. The movie started out with him not being blind. It started with him as a soldier in Vietnam and he lost his sight in combat and was rescued by some villagers, one of whom was a swordmaster and trained him while he was blind.
Another_Poet 12-03-07, 04:56 PM	(oops! duplicate post, see below)
Another_Poet 12-03-07, 05:01 PM	LCD, it was not shown that those freebies stay with the blind character if the blindness is cured. In fact, it was stated multiple times on that thread--directly to you and wrecan as I recall--that the character loses the benefits of the Blind PC starting package as soon as they lose blindness. In case you didn't see it before, I am telling you now (as the author of the "freebies") that the Blind PC Starting Package (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=14101847#post14101847)onl y benefits blind characters, and ceases to function should they become sighted. And, I am also stating for the record that it is the most awesome, balanced, and fun way to build blind PCs yet posted on the web. Check it out! (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=939995) AP Aside to MarkusCyst: when you get your blind swordsman statted out, please feel free to post it in that thread as part of the Blind PC Sound-off. We only have a few characters posted there right now but I would love to have a long list of examples of blind characters. Don't let others discourage you, it's a fun idea for a PC! The issue I have with the other thread that was shown is that for 150gp (the cost of Cure Blindness), all of those "freebies" stay with the character. Besides, if there is a powerful enough curse that keeps the PC blind, the caster would be none to pleased to see it circumvented.
LCD2YOU 12-03-07, 07:41 PM	LCD, it was not shown that those freebies stay with the blind character if the blindness is cured. In fact, it was stated multiple times on that thread--directly to you and wrecan as I recall--that the character loses the benefits of the Blind PC starting package as soon as they lose blindness. In case you didn't see it before, I am telling you now (as the author of the "freebies") that the Blind PC Starting Package (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=14101847#post14101847)onl y benefits blind characters, and ceases to function should they become sighted.Oh, I remember and I think it was when wrecan who pointed that out and you did change things. The problem is, being blind will suck and to make things "easier" means watering the drawbacks down. As CyroSilver pointed out, being blind would suck.And, I am also stating for the record that it is the most awesome, balanced, and fun way to build blind PCs yet posted on the web. Check it out! (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=939995) AP Aside to MarkusCyst: when you get your blind swordsman statted out, please feel free to post it in that thread as part of the Blind PC Sound-off. We only have a few characters posted there right now but I would love to have a long list of examples of blind characters. Don't let others discourage you, it's a fun idea for a PC!I still don't see how playing a character and giving them even more things in a system that is already weak when it points out the problems a blind person has is something to crow about. Want to really shine MarkusCyst? Play a blind human character starting out 1st level right out of PHB and make it to second level. I don't think I could do it. See, unlike what Another_Poet may think, I'm not saying that you can't play a blind character. What I am and have been saying is that it is tough. Things to consider: 1: Why is your character blind? 2: Why can't a 3rd level spell fix it? 3: Why can't Regeneration fix it? 4: Why would some "Master" waste their time training someone who will take almost constant training for years if they can even survive tests that a sighted person can pass with ease? 5: Is your character possessed of super-human abilities? Seems to be that a character whose lowest stat is 14 would be eligible for such considerations. 6 Do you have a detailed back history for your PC? What especially would be great are the reasons the PC got this special training. 7: I have no trouble with "special training" for PCs. The thing is such a PC coming out of such training would not be 1st level.
Vaelan 12-04-07, 03:03 AM	Take a look at the Combat Focus line in the PHB2. It eventually grants blindsight... at a sufficiently bad-ass level.
Calium 12-04-07, 03:33 AM	Honestly I would just RP it as having no sight and as a DM rule that anything that would blind you is considered to cause slight enough distortions to were you cant function fully and appear disoriented (as would someone that was blinded would act).
metalmayhem80110 12-06-07, 03:24 AM	Um, it might not quite fit into your concept, but why not try and get tremorsense? That is pretty close to what you need. Flyers would mess you up though. You might concider some levels of psion, that way you can throw up touchsight. Which would be perfect for this, and you'd get some other cool powers. It'd kinda take away from your full melee power, but in exchange you'd gain some things that'd allow you to survive. (Plus you'd be able to qualify for psionic feats. Up the walls and Speed of thought, w00t!)
wrecan 12-06-07, 10:04 AM	Here are the blindness rules I posted in Another_Poet's thread: Wrecan's Blind Character Rules Sight-based Skills. You automatically fail all Skill Checks involving Decipher Script, Disguise, Forgery or Spot, as well as Spellcraft or Use Magic Device when used on scrolls, books or other items that rely on writing. Sight-related Skills. You suffer a -4 penalty to all Skill checks except Knowledge, Listen, Move Silently, Perform and any Craft or Profession that doesn't involve sight in any way. Didn't See It Coming. You are always denied Dex bonuses to AC and suffer a -2 penalty to AC above that. Movement. You move at half-speed, unless you are in a place you know intimately. With the Accelerated Movement rule for Balance, you can move at full speed if you roll a Balance check of DC 15, not including the usual -4 penalty on Balance and not including surface or other modifiers. A failure by 4 or less means you can�t move for 1 round. A failure by 5 or more means you fall. You cannot take 10 on this roll. Inoffensive. You have a 50% miss chance whenever you attack a foe, assuming you can discern the square in which they are. All your foes always have total concealment with respect to your actions. Listen-Dependent. To discern the location of a foe, you must always (as in, every time you take an action with respect to that foe, even if that is multiple actions in the same round) roll a Listen check against the DC for hearing the person, at a -20 penalty (per the description of the invisibility ability). Illiterate. You cannot take any levels in a class that depends on writing, such as Wizard. Immunity. You are immune to gaze attacks and effects that rely entirely on light or vision as if you had total concealment, including explosive runes, but not symbol. Guide Animal. An animal can be trained to serve as a guide animal. "Guide" is a trick under the Handle Animal Skill rules. This allows the blind person to use verbal commands to get the animal to guide the person. The DC to teach this trick is 15 (and blind people suffer the -4 penalty during training). The DC for getting the animal to guide is the standard DC 10, and the blind person does not suffer the standard -4 skill check penalty. Guided blind people do not suffer half movement, but they must share the same square as their animal at all times, whether mounted on the animal, or squeezed in the animal's space. The trained animal cannot not be more than one size category larger or smaller than the blind person. Braille. Braille may be taken as a bonus language. However, few people can read Braille, even blind people. It can be deciphered like any other language, and no known scrolls or spells are written in Braille. Commissioning a sighted person (or a blind person using spells like clairvoyance) to make braille spellbooks, scrolls and books should incur an increased price as if commissioning any writing in a rare language. Magic Assistance for the Sight-Impaired. Some spells can ameliorate the effects of blindness, including clairvoyance. While such spells are active, all check penalties for blindness are halved, the character may use any Skill (even those relying on sight) and the character is no longer flatfooted due to blindness. The character, however, is subject to gaze attacks and attacks relying on light and vision. Most blind characters will try to overcome some of these penalties with the Blind-Fighting Feat and by loading up on Listen. I would also allow the following customized feats (or, alternately, Skill Tricks (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20070105a&page=5)): Blind Combat: (Pre-Requisite Blind Fighting as Feat, or Balance and Tumble 5 ranks as Skill Trick). If you roll a successful Listen check to discern the location of a foe, you are no longer denied Dexterity bonuses to AC or the additional -2 penalty as to attacks from that foe (until he moves and a subsequent Listen check fails). (Sighted characters gain this benefit against invisible foes, while in darkness and against characters who are concealed.) Blind Skill: (Pre-Requisite Skill Focus as Feat or Sleight of Hand 5 ranks as Skill Trick). You no longer suffer the -4 penalty when performing this skill blind. If the blindness is cured, you gain no benefits and the Feat slot remains occupied (just in case you ever subsequently blinded). The Feat applies to a single skill in which the character has SKill Focus, and each time it is taken, it must be assigned to a different Skill. Echolocate: (Pre-requisite Skill Focus (Listen) as Feat, or Listen 8 ranks as Skill Trick). +10 bonus to Listen checks to discern the square in which target is located (effectively halving the penalty). Sighted people can also use this for finding invisible and concealed creatures. Steady Shuffle: (no pre-requisite for Feat, Tumble and Jump 5 ranks as Skill Trick) You no longer suffer the -4 penalty to your Balance check when using the Accelerated Movement tactic. Sighted people gain the very same benefit for treacherous terrain.