bonus spells [Archive] - Wizards Community

bonus spells [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Infernostrider
01-19-08, 06:29 AM i'm having an arguement with one of my players ><

how do bonus spells work exactly? do they add to the maximum spells per day limit? or does it grant the ability to have more spells?

the way i see it, sorcerors (as the player i'm argueing with) only increase the limit of spells per day, so they can cast known spells more often. preparing spellcasters have the same, but since they choose what spell to prepare, they can select more different spells instead of just the same ones more like sorcerors can.

the sorc says that he should get bonus spells known for bonus spells based on his charisma modifier.

i don't want to make a DMdecision on this unless it can't be specified clearly enough on here, but i can't find it in the PHB (in the first few pages it gives a mention regarding bonus spells, but only for wizards) so i'd be eternally gratefull if any of you could help me out with the official rules regarding this issue, and unless i don't understand what in the nine hells you're telling me, i'll go along with that.

thanks all! ~Strider
kelvinaw273
01-19-08, 06:35 AM Under the description of the sorcerer it explicitly states that he gets bonus spells per day for his charisma, NOT bonus spells known. End of discussion, really. The best feat he can get for knowing extra spells is "Arcane Disciple" which would allow him to add a cleric domain from his deity just as a cleric does. He would then know the domain spells in addition to his Arcane spells known.
Infernostrider
01-19-08, 07:48 AM ok thanks, that's all i need to know ^^
Merestil Haye
01-19-08, 08:07 AM Under the description of the sorcerer it explicitly states that he gets bonus spells per day for his charisma, NOT bonus spells known. End of discussion, really.To confirm this, the SRD says the following about Sorcerer spells known.A sorcerer’s selection of spells is extremely limited. A sorcerer begins play knowing four 0-level spells and two 1st-level spells of your choice. At each new sorcerer level, he gains one or more new spells, as indicated on Table: Sorcerer Spells Known. (Unlike spells per day, the number of spells a sorcerer knows is not affected by his Charisma score; the numbers on Table: Sorcerer Spells Known are fixed.) These new spells can be common spells chosen from the sorcerer/wizard spell list, or they can be unusual spells that the sorcerer has gained some understanding of by study. The sorcerer can’t use this method of spell acquisition to learn spells at a faster rate, however.The bolded text is the relevant part.

The best feat he can get for knowing extra spells is "Arcane Disciple" which would allow him to add a cleric domain from his deity just as a cleric does. He would then know the domain spells in addition to his Arcane spells known.This is in error, however. Arcane Disciple does not add the spells to the list of spells known. It adds the spells to the character's class spell list. If a sorcerer wants to learn one of these spells he must learn it by the method his class gives him.

The character can now use spell trigger items storing those spells, and spell completion items if his Wis is high enough.
Ziggaraut
01-20-08, 11:36 PM Arcane Disciple IS, however, very useful for mages who cast out of a spell list, like Warmage or Beguiler.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Infernostrider 01-19-08, 06:29 AM	i'm having an arguement with one of my players >< how do bonus spells work exactly? do they add to the maximum spells per day limit? or does it grant the ability to have more spells? the way i see it, sorcerors (as the player i'm argueing with) only increase the limit of spells per day, so they can cast known spells more often. preparing spellcasters have the same, but since they choose what spell to prepare, they can select more different spells instead of just the same ones more like sorcerors can. the sorc says that he should get bonus spells known for bonus spells based on his charisma modifier. i don't want to make a DMdecision on this unless it can't be specified clearly enough on here, but i can't find it in the PHB (in the first few pages it gives a mention regarding bonus spells, but only for wizards) so i'd be eternally gratefull if any of you could help me out with the official rules regarding this issue, and unless i don't understand what in the nine hells you're telling me, i'll go along with that. thanks all! ~Strider
kelvinaw273 01-19-08, 06:35 AM	Under the description of the sorcerer it explicitly states that he gets bonus spells per day for his charisma, NOT bonus spells known. End of discussion, really. The best feat he can get for knowing extra spells is "Arcane Disciple" which would allow him to add a cleric domain from his deity just as a cleric does. He would then know the domain spells in addition to his Arcane spells known.
Infernostrider 01-19-08, 07:48 AM	ok thanks, that's all i need to know ^^
Merestil Haye 01-19-08, 08:07 AM	Under the description of the sorcerer it explicitly states that he gets bonus spells per day for his charisma, NOT bonus spells known. End of discussion, really.To confirm this, the SRD says the following about Sorcerer spells known.A sorcerer’s selection of spells is extremely limited. A sorcerer begins play knowing four 0-level spells and two 1st-level spells of your choice. At each new sorcerer level, he gains one or more new spells, as indicated on Table: Sorcerer Spells Known. (Unlike spells per day, the number of spells a sorcerer knows is not affected by his Charisma score; the numbers on Table: Sorcerer Spells Known are fixed.) These new spells can be common spells chosen from the sorcerer/wizard spell list, or they can be unusual spells that the sorcerer has gained some understanding of by study. The sorcerer can’t use this method of spell acquisition to learn spells at a faster rate, however.The bolded text is the relevant part. The best feat he can get for knowing extra spells is "Arcane Disciple" which would allow him to add a cleric domain from his deity just as a cleric does. He would then know the domain spells in addition to his Arcane spells known.This is in error, however. Arcane Disciple does not add the spells to the list of spells known. It adds the spells to the character's class spell list. If a sorcerer wants to learn one of these spells he must learn it by the method his class gives him. The character can now use spell trigger items storing those spells, and spell completion items if his Wis is high enough.
Ziggaraut 01-20-08, 11:36 PM	Arcane Disciple IS, however, very useful for mages who cast out of a spell list, like Warmage or Beguiler.