Boring DM - how do we the players keep the game fun [Archive] - Wizards Community

Boring DM - how do we the players keep the game fun [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
throatshot
03-31-04, 12:15 PM If you have a DM that's incredibly boring, how do you keep the game fun. Bowing out of the game isn't an option. Telling her isn't an option either.

Here's some of the stuff she does:

1) She doesn't really understand the rules well. We're talking stuff like delaying, readying and AoO, not obscure rules that only occasionally come into play.
2) She's afraid to kill the characters. One character has died, and it's because the player refused to give out his character's hp, knowing the DM would use a stupid deux ex machina to save him.
3) She spends an INSANELY long time when her turn comes around. I DM regularly, and I know that the DM's turn can take a bit of time, but we're talking 30 minutes or more. And these turns are silent. It's like watching someone doing her tax returns.
4) Doesn't mind spending an inordinate amount of time looking up rules when the players don't care if she makes a call.
5) Railroads the game.
6) Refuses to engage in roleplaying opportunities. No matter how much we try to actually interact with NPCs, she just won't do it.
7) Dry, monotone voice.

We're at the point where many of us are indifferent to the lives of our characters, and we LIKE them. I'm not the only one who's taken risks in the hopes of my character dying.

All of this adds up to game sessions that are long. So, when it's not possible to explain all these problems, and it's not possible to get out of the game sessions, what can we, the players, do to make the game sessions more exciting?
Caktid
03-31-04, 12:23 PM Well, to start with, you might wanna find a new DM.... If you cant do that, you might wanna just start doing really stupid stuff with your characters. If your really bored, try burning towns and looting temples. Randomly attack high level NPCs. If the DM has a pet character, backstab him/her. Basically, do whatever the hell you feel like. If the DM still doesnt do anything about it, shoot her. With a hammer.
Bacon and Eggs
03-31-04, 12:51 PM Play a sub game in the wait time. I reccomend a set of playing cards and try the game Cribbage.

That is, if the whole talking to the DM about the displeasure thing didn't work.
SmiloDan
03-31-04, 02:13 PM Is the DM a friend of yours whose feelings you're afraid of hurting? If not, I would suggest quitting the game. If you're all not having fun, you're not playing right. Maybe one of the players can begin DMing? Why is your current DM the DM if she doesn't know the rules very well? Maybe she would have more fun as a player? Try to be nice about it. DMing can be hard, and really confusing, especially if you don't know all the rules like the back of your hand.

Our group had a really difficult DM, and we all went our separate ways, but most of us are now back together and in much more fun campaigns. 2 of us former players are now DMs, and we found a lot of other good players on the Wizards.COMmunity Player Classifieds.

Maybe look for a DM there?
throatshot
03-31-04, 02:51 PM She's a DM because she loves doing it. Several of us DM several different games, so it's not a matter of not having enough DMs. We can't say anything because it would hurt her feelings, and she truly enjoys playing the game (her way).

She's completely oblivious to the obvious signs of player boredom or the fact that we start to lose our tempers after explaining a most basic rule for the fifteenth time in a single combat. She's not a very good player, either, because she doesn't pay much attention, but she's manageable as a player.

So our only solution is to try to figure out a way to make the game fun despite the DM. If the DM were willing to roleplay out NPC interaction we could at least run with that, but when game sessions seem to consist of nothing but walk-attack-loot-repeat, it's very difficult to find any way to keep the game fun*.

*I love combat, and most of the other players do, too, but if all I wanted to do was combat, I'd play Skirmish.
Brutal Cuddliness
03-31-04, 03:38 PM Well, if talking to her is out of the question, and you're determined to stick with it, the only way for the players to make the game better is through their characters.

If you can't get any role-playing opportunities with NPCs, seek them within the party. Try to develop some sort of intra-party conflict, as long as it doesn't get out of hand.
While you're waiting for the DM to figure out what's in the next room, speculate wildly about it in-character. Make a game out of coming up with the best oneliners in combat.

But in the long run, you really need to get her to improve. It seems like negative reinforcment doesn't work, if she's so oblivious, but maybe positive reinforcment could work? Every time she roleplays even just a little, latch onto it and be sure to tell her about what you liked, with lots of big smiles. A group hug might be overdoing it, though.
If you can get her to make a judgment call for once, be sure to praise its wisdom.

Not sure if that helps, but it's not an easy position you're in...
Dareon
03-31-04, 03:48 PM Brutal Cuddliness hit it right on the nose. All I can offer besides that are comedy options, so here they are. Note that none of these are to be taken the least bit seriously.

Have everyone take levels in Wizard or Sorceror and start talking to their familiars during downtime.
Bring your favorite portable gaming system and fire it up while she's doing her taxes... I mean DM work.
Better yet, bring a non-portable system (and TV if necessary), hook it up in the game room, and have yourself a little multiplayer with the rest of the party.
Bring a pet. Preferably a kitten, so your dice will at least get a workout.
Quote Monty Python.
Come up with some sort of "action bingo" game to play amongst yourselves while she works on turns. "She just scratched her nose." "Bingo!"
Do your own taxes/homework/office work while she's busy.
CrimsonRyoko
03-31-04, 04:20 PM If shes really spacy, run your own game within hers, get one of thep layers to be a DM and run your own encounters while she figures hers out, if she notices, go her, if not, then everyone is atleast having fun.
Aliquid
03-31-04, 04:23 PM If there are specific rules that she constantly has problems with..... write her up a "cheat sheet"

Try to understand how she thinks... and write bullet point explanations for specific rules in a manner that makes sense to her.

Heck, make diagrams. Do a flow chart for AoO situations. Make up rhymes for her to memorise... Whatever it takes to make it easy for her to understand, remember and quick to reference.

Remember, everyone's brain works differently. Some people pick up on math quickly, some find it difficult. Some people have perfect memories for details, while others forget things constantly (or don't notice the detail in the first place). Most importantly for this topic, some people pick up on structured rule systems intuitively, while others find them confusing.
throatshot
03-31-04, 08:29 PM Thank you for all the advice. I'm going to try to work some of your ideas in for our next game in the hopes of improving it.
KHORG
04-01-04, 12:37 PM I had sort of the same experience 2 campaigns ago

I've decided that in future if there's something I don't like about a campaign and I'm not the only player who feels that way, I'm gonna tell the DM about it, rather than sit out the campaign through fear of spoling "the dream" the current DM has about where their campaign is going.

For the record, last time round it was too much trekking through the same small wood between two towns, no interesting NPC's in either town, and little in the way of challenging fights.

You sit there thinking "well, I hate to get all bossy and start trying to tell them how to run their own show". But if you do that, you just end up with a party of chaotic-stupid.
SmiloDan
04-01-04, 01:21 PM Um, I don't remember channeling Mr. T when I initially posted. What the heck happened? Is there a Mr. T virus out there?

OK, I just checked my post and it replaced every "eye" with a Mr. T. And put a yo before each question mark. How odd....
throatshot
04-01-04, 01:50 PM Looks like an April Fool's prank.
SmiloDan
04-01-04, 01:54 PM Yeah, I better check my shoelaces... I feel so dumb!
throatshot
04-01-04, 01:59 PM I also noticed that I'm listed as the Most Ignored User (main board page, above the newest user line). Since I've never gone out of my way to offend anyone, and I'm not that prolific of a poster, I find it a bit difficult to believe that so many people would put me on their ignore list.
Sorel
04-01-04, 02:10 PM I don't think you are the most ignored user, I think I am. ;) What are you talking about?

:D
Whakapapa
04-01-04, 02:28 PM I'd say it straight to her if she was my DM...there is nothing worse than a boring dm...

i always ask my players what the liked and didn't like after a gaming session so i can improve myself, i also look up specific rules beforehand....

force her to take rulings, so she understands the meaning that its HER game, not the books game....do you understand me ? :p

anyways, i really think you should just tell her what she should improve...it will help her and it will help you!

Mr. T language forever! :D

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
throatshot 03-31-04, 12:15 PM	If you have a DM that's incredibly boring, how do you keep the game fun. Bowing out of the game isn't an option. Telling her isn't an option either. Here's some of the stuff she does: 1) She doesn't really understand the rules well. We're talking stuff like delaying, readying and AoO, not obscure rules that only occasionally come into play. 2) She's afraid to kill the characters. One character has died, and it's because the player refused to give out his character's hp, knowing the DM would use a stupid deux ex machina to save him. 3) She spends an INSANELY long time when her turn comes around. I DM regularly, and I know that the DM's turn can take a bit of time, but we're talking 30 minutes or more. And these turns are silent. It's like watching someone doing her tax returns. 4) Doesn't mind spending an inordinate amount of time looking up rules when the players don't care if she makes a call. 5) Railroads the game. 6) Refuses to engage in roleplaying opportunities. No matter how much we try to actually interact with NPCs, she just won't do it. 7) Dry, monotone voice. We're at the point where many of us are indifferent to the lives of our characters, and we LIKE them. I'm not the only one who's taken risks in the hopes of my character dying. All of this adds up to game sessions that are long. So, when it's not possible to explain all these problems, and it's not possible to get out of the game sessions, what can we, the players, do to make the game sessions more exciting?
Caktid 03-31-04, 12:23 PM	Well, to start with, you might wanna find a new DM.... If you cant do that, you might wanna just start doing really stupid stuff with your characters. If your really bored, try burning towns and looting temples. Randomly attack high level NPCs. If the DM has a pet character, backstab him/her. Basically, do whatever the hell you feel like. If the DM still doesnt do anything about it, shoot her. With a hammer.
Bacon and Eggs 03-31-04, 12:51 PM	Play a sub game in the wait time. I reccomend a set of playing cards and try the game Cribbage. That is, if the whole talking to the DM about the displeasure thing didn't work.
SmiloDan 03-31-04, 02:13 PM	Is the DM a friend of yours whose feelings you're afraid of hurting? If not, I would suggest quitting the game. If you're all not having fun, you're not playing right. Maybe one of the players can begin DMing? Why is your current DM the DM if she doesn't know the rules very well? Maybe she would have more fun as a player? Try to be nice about it. DMing can be hard, and really confusing, especially if you don't know all the rules like the back of your hand. Our group had a really difficult DM, and we all went our separate ways, but most of us are now back together and in much more fun campaigns. 2 of us former players are now DMs, and we found a lot of other good players on the Wizards.COMmunity Player Classifieds. Maybe look for a DM there?
throatshot 03-31-04, 02:51 PM	She's a DM because she loves doing it. Several of us DM several different games, so it's not a matter of not having enough DMs. We can't say anything because it would hurt her feelings, and she truly enjoys playing the game (her way). She's completely oblivious to the obvious signs of player boredom or the fact that we start to lose our tempers after explaining a most basic rule for the fifteenth time in a single combat. She's not a very good player, either, because she doesn't pay much attention, but she's manageable as a player. So our only solution is to try to figure out a way to make the game fun despite the DM. If the DM were willing to roleplay out NPC interaction we could at least run with that, but when game sessions seem to consist of nothing but walk-attack-loot-repeat, it's very difficult to find any way to keep the game fun. I love combat, and most of the other players do, too, but if all I wanted to do was combat, I'd play Skirmish.
Brutal Cuddliness 03-31-04, 03:38 PM	Well, if talking to her is out of the question, and you're determined to stick with it, the only way for the players to make the game better is through their characters. If you can't get any role-playing opportunities with NPCs, seek them within the party. Try to develop some sort of intra-party conflict, as long as it doesn't get out of hand. While you're waiting for the DM to figure out what's in the next room, speculate wildly about it in-character. Make a game out of coming up with the best oneliners in combat. But in the long run, you really need to get her to improve. It seems like negative reinforcment doesn't work, if she's so oblivious, but maybe positive reinforcment could work? Every time she roleplays even just a little, latch onto it and be sure to tell her about what you liked, with lots of big smiles. A group hug might be overdoing it, though. If you can get her to make a judgment call for once, be sure to praise its wisdom. Not sure if that helps, but it's not an easy position you're in...
Dareon 03-31-04, 03:48 PM	Brutal Cuddliness hit it right on the nose. All I can offer besides that are comedy options, so here they are. Note that none of these are to be taken the least bit seriously. Have everyone take levels in Wizard or Sorceror and start talking to their familiars during downtime. Bring your favorite portable gaming system and fire it up while she's doing her taxes... I mean DM work. Better yet, bring a non-portable system (and TV if necessary), hook it up in the game room, and have yourself a little multiplayer with the rest of the party. Bring a pet. Preferably a kitten, so your dice will at least get a workout. Quote Monty Python. Come up with some sort of "action bingo" game to play amongst yourselves while she works on turns. "She just scratched her nose." "Bingo!" Do your own taxes/homework/office work while she's busy.
CrimsonRyoko 03-31-04, 04:20 PM	If shes really spacy, run your own game within hers, get one of thep layers to be a DM and run your own encounters while she figures hers out, if she notices, go her, if not, then everyone is atleast having fun.
Aliquid 03-31-04, 04:23 PM	If there are specific rules that she constantly has problems with..... write her up a "cheat sheet" Try to understand how she thinks... and write bullet point explanations for specific rules in a manner that makes sense to her. Heck, make diagrams. Do a flow chart for AoO situations. Make up rhymes for her to memorise... Whatever it takes to make it easy for her to understand, remember and quick to reference. Remember, everyone's brain works differently. Some people pick up on math quickly, some find it difficult. Some people have perfect memories for details, while others forget things constantly (or don't notice the detail in the first place). Most importantly for this topic, some people pick up on structured rule systems intuitively, while others find them confusing.
throatshot 03-31-04, 08:29 PM	Thank you for all the advice. I'm going to try to work some of your ideas in for our next game in the hopes of improving it.
KHORG 04-01-04, 12:37 PM	I had sort of the same experience 2 campaigns ago I've decided that in future if there's something I don't like about a campaign and I'm not the only player who feels that way, I'm gonna tell the DM about it, rather than sit out the campaign through fear of spoling "the dream" the current DM has about where their campaign is going. For the record, last time round it was too much trekking through the same small wood between two towns, no interesting NPC's in either town, and little in the way of challenging fights. You sit there thinking "well, I hate to get all bossy and start trying to tell them how to run their own show". But if you do that, you just end up with a party of chaotic-stupid.
SmiloDan 04-01-04, 01:21 PM	Um, I don't remember channeling Mr. T when I initially posted. What the heck happened? Is there a Mr. T virus out there? OK, I just checked my post and it replaced every "eye" with a Mr. T. And put a yo before each question mark. How odd....
throatshot 04-01-04, 01:50 PM	Looks like an April Fool's prank.
SmiloDan 04-01-04, 01:54 PM	Yeah, I better check my shoelaces... I feel so dumb!
throatshot 04-01-04, 01:59 PM	I also noticed that I'm listed as the Most Ignored User (main board page, above the newest user line). Since I've never gone out of my way to offend anyone, and I'm not that prolific of a poster, I find it a bit difficult to believe that so many people would put me on their ignore list.
Sorel 04-01-04, 02:10 PM	I don't think you are the most ignored user, I think I am. ;) What are you talking about? :D
Whakapapa 04-01-04, 02:28 PM	I'd say it straight to her if she was my DM...there is nothing worse than a boring dm... i always ask my players what the liked and didn't like after a gaming session so i can improve myself, i also look up specific rules beforehand.... force her to take rulings, so she understands the meaning that its HER game, not the books game....do you understand me ? :p anyways, i really think you should just tell her what she should improve...it will help her and it will help you! Mr. T language forever! :D