Bow Range Question [Archive] - Wizards Community

Bow Range Question [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Arkat
10-05-04, 06:06 PM My character uses a +1 Composite Longbow of Distance.

He also has the Far Shot feat.

Finally, he's got 2 levels in Deepwood Sniper (Masters of the Wild page 52) which gives him a +20 feet range increment bonus.

My question is, what is his final range increment?

Also, do range increment bonuses affect the effective distance given for Point Blank Shot? That is, if you have the Far Shot feat, does your Point Blank Shot distance increase to 45 feet since Far Shot normally increases the range increment by 50%?
Kingside_Bishop
10-05-04, 07:41 PM Your range increment is 240ft, by my reckoning.

110 (base) + 55 (distance) + 55 (far shot) + 20 (DS levels) = 140ft, not bad.

Nope, 10ft. PBS isn't generally considered that great, but the feats that it gives you access to are. It's like power attack > cleave. PA sucks at low levels, but cleave rocks. Eh.. whatcha gonna do?

Complain.
friedmad
10-05-04, 08:09 PM point blank shot is considered to be 30% of whatever your final range is for close-range. in your case, your point-blank range should be 30% of 240ft, or 72ft., rounded to the nearest 5ft increment, or 70ft.
psionichamster
10-05-04, 08:10 PM 2400 ft on a max range shot? like 800 meters?

i am glad the archer in my game does not have the far shot feat, or look to be taking it

that's a LONG range, ground to ground missile

the hamster
SpellMaster
10-05-04, 09:28 PM Point Blank Shot does not change with the range of the weapon. Hence why a dart receives the bonus at the same range as a composite longbow. It's at 30ft, always, no change, unless specific to a prestige class.

About the final range, though, I am not certain whether you add the 20 feet then multiply by 1.5, or vice versa. I'd go for the smaller range though, multiply then add.
Loren Pechtel
10-05-04, 10:50 PM Do distance and Far Shot stack???
ksbsnowowl
10-06-04, 12:37 AM Do distance and Far Shot stack???Yes.

Kingside_Bishop, your calculation is a little off, due to the fact that the Distance enhancement doubles the ranged increment of the weapon, rather than increasing it by 50%, like the Far Shot feat.

And remember your D&D math everyone; Multiples do not multiply each other. Rather, they merely apply to the base range and add the appropriate ammount.

Lastly, the Deepwood Sniper class states specifically that its range increase is added last, after all multiples have been calculated.

So, a second level DWS wielding a Composite Longbow has a range increment of:
110 (base) + 55 (far shot) + 110 (distance) + 20 (DWS) = 295 ft.

This allows him to fire out to 2,949 ft. (with a -20 penalty, of course [that is, unless he is also a Cragtop Archer]).
Arkat
10-06-04, 07:45 AM Yes.

Kingside_Bishop, your calculation is a little off, due to the fact that the Distance enhancement doubles the ranged increment of the weapon, rather than increasing it by 50%, like the Far Shot feat.

And remember your D&D math everyone; Multiples do not multiply each other. Rather, they merely apply to the base range and add the appropriate ammount.

Lastly, the Deepwood Sniper class states specifically that its range increase is added last, after all multiples have been calculated.

So, a second level DWS wielding a Composite Longbow has a range increment of:
110 (base) + 55 (far shot) + 110 (distance) + 20 (DWS) = 295 ft.

This allows him to fire out to 2,949 ft. (with a -20 penalty, of course [that is, unless he is also a Cragtop Archer]).

Thanks ksbsnowowl! After reading your Archer thread I feel honored that you'd respond to mine. If you'd indulge me a little further, in your opinion, what is your answer to my Point Blank Shot question? I seemed to have gotten some conflicting responses above.

Thanks again!
starfire311
10-06-04, 09:02 AM From SRD:
POINT BLANK SHOT [GENERAL]
Benefit: You get a +1 bonus on attack and damage rolls with ranged weapons at ranges of up to 30 feet.
Special: A fighter may select Point Blank Shot as one of his fighter bonus feats.

It looks to me like range increases will not affect the point blank shot feat.
Because the range increasing stuff affects the range increments and PB shot doesn't have anything to do with the weapons range increment.

From SRD:
FAR SHOT [GENERAL]
Prerequisite: Point Blank Shot.
Benefit: When you use a projectile weapon, such as a bow, its range increment increases by one-half (multiply by 1-1/2). When you use a thrown weapon, its range increment is doubled.
Special: A fighter may select Far Shot as one of his fighter bonus feats.

From SRD:
Distance: This property can only be placed on a ranged weapon. A weapon of distance has double the range increment of other weapons of its kind.
Moderate divination; CL 6th; Craft Magic Arms and Armor, clairaudience/clairvoyance; Price +1 bonus.
ksbsnowowl
10-06-04, 10:41 AM Indeed, the range of Point Blank Shot is unaffected by either the Far Shot feat or the Distance enhancement. It is a flat 30' range, and that'll never change unless there is a PrC-granted ability that specificly applies to PBS.
Arkat
10-06-04, 12:16 PM Ok, that's all I needed to know.

Thanks for all your help guys!
Kingside_Bishop
10-06-04, 04:43 PM Kingside_Bishop, your calculation is a little off, due to the fact that the Distance enhancement doubles the ranged increment of the weapon, rather than increasing it by 50%, like the Far Shot feat.

You're right. Thanks.
friedmad
10-06-04, 09:41 PM If you can shoot further, your PBR should increas an corresponding amount. Does a handgun, with an effective range of 100 feet, have the same PBR as a rifle, with an effective range of 1200 feet?
MrkGrismer
10-08-04, 08:38 AM Doesn't matter, in RL you don't get PBS. In D&D PBS is 30'

PERIOD.
Kheldren
10-08-04, 09:06 AM If you can shoot further, your PBR should increas an corresponding amount. Does a handgun, with an effective range of 100 feet, have the same PBR as a rifle, with an effective range of 1200 feet?
Yes it does - PBS is not the weapon's ability to more damage at closer ranges - it is your ability to be more accurate with your targetting. (This is presumably relevant for D20 Modern though I have never even looked at the rules.)
The illogical one is the ability to get a bonus over a weapon's base range (for throwing knives etc) since you have the accuracy but the weapon does not... Actually if you watch any really good knife thrower (in the circus etc) you will see that you can be this good so fair enough.
When you could (in a D20 Modern game) rule that PBS is increased is with telescopic sights (or their equivalent) - but the bonus for using the sights should provide the equivalent to the increase in PBS range, so you still see no increase in PBS range (and forget that crossbow with telescopic sights).

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Arkat 10-05-04, 06:06 PM	My character uses a +1 Composite Longbow of Distance. He also has the Far Shot feat. Finally, he's got 2 levels in Deepwood Sniper (Masters of the Wild page 52) which gives him a +20 feet range increment bonus. My question is, what is his final range increment? Also, do range increment bonuses affect the effective distance given for Point Blank Shot? That is, if you have the Far Shot feat, does your Point Blank Shot distance increase to 45 feet since Far Shot normally increases the range increment by 50%?
Kingside_Bishop 10-05-04, 07:41 PM	Your range increment is 240ft, by my reckoning. 110 (base) + 55 (distance) + 55 (far shot) + 20 (DS levels) = 140ft, not bad. Nope, 10ft. PBS isn't generally considered that great, but the feats that it gives you access to are. It's like power attack > cleave. PA sucks at low levels, but cleave rocks. Eh.. whatcha gonna do? Complain.
friedmad 10-05-04, 08:09 PM	point blank shot is considered to be 30% of whatever your final range is for close-range. in your case, your point-blank range should be 30% of 240ft, or 72ft., rounded to the nearest 5ft increment, or 70ft.
psionichamster 10-05-04, 08:10 PM	2400 ft on a max range shot? like 800 meters? i am glad the archer in my game does not have the far shot feat, or look to be taking it that's a LONG range, ground to ground missile the hamster
SpellMaster 10-05-04, 09:28 PM	Point Blank Shot does not change with the range of the weapon. Hence why a dart receives the bonus at the same range as a composite longbow. It's at 30ft, always, no change, unless specific to a prestige class. About the final range, though, I am not certain whether you add the 20 feet then multiply by 1.5, or vice versa. I'd go for the smaller range though, multiply then add.
Loren Pechtel 10-05-04, 10:50 PM	Do distance and Far Shot stack???
ksbsnowowl 10-06-04, 12:37 AM	Do distance and Far Shot stack???Yes. Kingside_Bishop, your calculation is a little off, due to the fact that the Distance enhancement doubles the ranged increment of the weapon, rather than increasing it by 50%, like the Far Shot feat. And remember your D&D math everyone; Multiples do not multiply each other. Rather, they merely apply to the base range and add the appropriate ammount. Lastly, the Deepwood Sniper class states specifically that its range increase is added last, after all multiples have been calculated. So, a second level DWS wielding a Composite Longbow has a range increment of: 110 (base) + 55 (far shot) + 110 (distance) + 20 (DWS) = 295 ft. This allows him to fire out to 2,949 ft. (with a -20 penalty, of course [that is, unless he is also a Cragtop Archer]).
Arkat 10-06-04, 07:45 AM	Yes. Kingside_Bishop, your calculation is a little off, due to the fact that the Distance enhancement doubles the ranged increment of the weapon, rather than increasing it by 50%, like the Far Shot feat. And remember your D&D math everyone; Multiples do not multiply each other. Rather, they merely apply to the base range and add the appropriate ammount. Lastly, the Deepwood Sniper class states specifically that its range increase is added last, after all multiples have been calculated. So, a second level DWS wielding a Composite Longbow has a range increment of: 110 (base) + 55 (far shot) + 110 (distance) + 20 (DWS) = 295 ft. This allows him to fire out to 2,949 ft. (with a -20 penalty, of course [that is, unless he is also a Cragtop Archer]). Thanks ksbsnowowl! After reading your Archer thread I feel honored that you'd respond to mine. If you'd indulge me a little further, in your opinion, what is your answer to my Point Blank Shot question? I seemed to have gotten some conflicting responses above. Thanks again!
starfire311 10-06-04, 09:02 AM	From SRD: POINT BLANK SHOT [GENERAL] Benefit: You get a +1 bonus on attack and damage rolls with ranged weapons at ranges of up to 30 feet. Special: A fighter may select Point Blank Shot as one of his fighter bonus feats. It looks to me like range increases will not affect the point blank shot feat. Because the range increasing stuff affects the range increments and PB shot doesn't have anything to do with the weapons range increment. From SRD: FAR SHOT [GENERAL] Prerequisite: Point Blank Shot. Benefit: When you use a projectile weapon, such as a bow, its range increment increases by one-half (multiply by 1-1/2). When you use a thrown weapon, its range increment is doubled. Special: A fighter may select Far Shot as one of his fighter bonus feats. From SRD: Distance: This property can only be placed on a ranged weapon. A weapon of distance has double the range increment of other weapons of its kind. Moderate divination; CL 6th; Craft Magic Arms and Armor, clairaudience/clairvoyance; Price +1 bonus.
ksbsnowowl 10-06-04, 10:41 AM	Indeed, the range of Point Blank Shot is unaffected by either the Far Shot feat or the Distance enhancement. It is a flat 30' range, and that'll never change unless there is a PrC-granted ability that specificly applies to PBS.
Arkat 10-06-04, 12:16 PM	Ok, that's all I needed to know. Thanks for all your help guys!
Kingside_Bishop 10-06-04, 04:43 PM	Kingside_Bishop, your calculation is a little off, due to the fact that the Distance enhancement doubles the ranged increment of the weapon, rather than increasing it by 50%, like the Far Shot feat. You're right. Thanks.
friedmad 10-06-04, 09:41 PM	If you can shoot further, your PBR should increas an corresponding amount. Does a handgun, with an effective range of 100 feet, have the same PBR as a rifle, with an effective range of 1200 feet?
MrkGrismer 10-08-04, 08:38 AM	Doesn't matter, in RL you don't get PBS. In D&D PBS is 30' PERIOD.
Kheldren 10-08-04, 09:06 AM	If you can shoot further, your PBR should increas an corresponding amount. Does a handgun, with an effective range of 100 feet, have the same PBR as a rifle, with an effective range of 1200 feet? Yes it does - PBS is not the weapon's ability to more damage at closer ranges - it is your ability to be more accurate with your targetting. (This is presumably relevant for D20 Modern though I have never even looked at the rules.) The illogical one is the ability to get a bonus over a weapon's base range (for throwing knives etc) since you have the accuracy but the weapon does not... Actually if you watch any really good knife thrower (in the circus etc) you will see that you can be this good so fair enough. When you could (in a D20 Modern game) rule that PBS is increased is with telescopic sights (or their equivalent) - but the bonus for using the sights should provide the equivalent to the increase in PBS range, so you still see no increase in PBS range (and forget that crossbow with telescopic sights).