Post/Author/DateTime	Post
ym132 06-14-05, 10:45 PM	I am currently in a compaign where the DM is a guy and one of the players is his girlfriend. I normally wouldn't care, however, she whines and argues about the same things all the time. She has to be the star and the center of attention... Ok, but the constant whining. He is more lenient(sp?) with her as well, which is ok... sometimes. She has him by the balls and she knows it. So what is your advice on what I can do about this situation. -ym132
snowlynx 06-14-05, 11:48 PM	Offer to DM. The situation is likely strained due to the DM being ''in-control" and the player upset about it. I also have a situation in my group where the player gets very, very annoyed at the DM and is his girlfriend. She is always convinced he is working against her, I guess. When she is in the DM's seat, he is perhaps more annoying of a player, as he carefully tells her what to do. When one of the other players is the DM, there aren't any problems like this between the two of them.
Thorak 06-14-05, 11:55 PM	Forget going to your friend about it. Given a choice between you and his girlfriend, he'll side with her, even if he secretly agrees with you. However, this does not mean you can't do anything. Just aim for the real target. The girlfriend. The next time she whines because she's not the center of attention, tell her to, exactly, "Stop whining because you're not the center of attention." Call her on it. Make sure you stay calm, so that if she goes nuts at being called on it, you look like the sane rational one. And she very well may turn to her boyfriend to bring you back in line. If she does, look him in the eye and say something like "Look, I'm not trying to make this about you and her, just about the way she treats the rest of us during the game." If she keeps flipping out, and he still decides he'd rather have a peaceful romantic life than a peaceful D&D session, then you've done what you can. Going any further is only asking for trouble, the kind of trouble you'll likely be on the wrong side of. Above all else, stay calm and rational.
Sargon 06-15-05, 03:19 AM	You can't really excpect a guy to not make his Girl the center of attention, While it does suck that your in that situation... DO you really expect him to tell his Girl Friend NO? Thats just not a smart thing to do..
Lacloix 06-15-05, 08:53 AM	I have to agree with Thorak, but make sure to use some tact. You don't want the friend/girlfriend to think you're sabotaging the relationship. I had a similar experience with a group I almost played with. What kept me away was the DMs lack of knowledge of the system and how he let his gf get away with everything. For this particular campaign, she was being allowed to use metamagic feats without the increase to spell level. That is, her maximized, empowered, quick, silent, still, etc. lightning bolt still took a third level slot. Considering how rules lawyer he had been on my ass, I pointed this out to him (in front of her). At first he agreed with me, claiming he didn't notice that -minor- detail. Then his gf pitched a fit, like the kind of tantrum a child would throw. She threw a couple books, a bag of dice, etc. and then stormed out of the room. Soon enough, she got her way. I wish I could say that this happened when I was 11, with a bunch of other 11-year olds, but this happened just last year, with a bunch of friends in their mid-20s. It might be worth mentioned that this gf is clinically insane and has been institutionalized on multiple occasions. If you want things to change, you're going to have to call them on it. If things won't change, you have to ask yourself, "Is this the kind of group I want to be in?"
High Octane 06-15-05, 09:52 AM	Some advice for everybody. If faced with D&D vs. She who provides the loving, there is no contest.
DonGnocci 06-15-05, 09:53 AM	I have to agree with Thorak, but make sure to use some tact. You don't want the friend/girlfriend to think you're sabotaging the relationship. I had a similar experience with a group I almost played with. What kept me away was the DMs lack of knowledge of the system and how he let his gf get away with everything. For this particular campaign, she was being allowed to use metamagic feats without the increase to spell level. That is, her maximized, empowered, quick, silent, still, etc. lightning bolt still took a third level slot. Considering how rules lawyer he had been on my ass, I pointed this out to him (in front of her). At first he agreed with me, claiming he didn't notice that -minor- detail. Then his gf pitched a fit, like the kind of tantrum a child would throw. She threw a couple books, a bag of dice, etc. and then stormed out of the room. Soon enough, she got her way. I wish I could say that this happened when I was 11, with a bunch of other 11-year olds, but this happened just last year, with a bunch of friends in their mid-20s. It might be worth mentioned that this gf is clinically insane and has been institutionalized on multiple occasions. If you want things to change, you're going to have to call them on it. If things won't change, you have to ask yourself, "Is this the kind of group I want to be in?" *roflmfao* Oh my f******* goodness... that's a real WEAK DM. Grab your source books, get a grip and DM yourself. Honestly. I'm fed up of hearing those tales of DMs letting their "Ben-Dover-Piece" play in their campaigns and ruin the fun for everyone... [Offtopic tale of my own once experiencing that kind of c*** DM-ing: I once played with a DM named Volker... we played The Dark Eye... One day his gf had the "great" idea of joining in(in an already ongoing campaign, with character levels far too high for beginners, and on our disaproval) despite the facts that she 1) never did roleplay before 2) didn't even read the rulesbooks 3) kept on insisting to play a demonologist because "it's so cool and i like mangas and stuff!"(that b****!) 4) was dumb as hell and didn't even read the rules on how to level up characters... 5) she knew nothing of how skill and ability checks worked... Well... we all assumed that he would mess up and ruin the game... And so it came... He didn't only give her character only better equipment she even had no clue of using, he also did let her even do anything she liked, even it was contrary to the setting or didn't even make sense... but it came worse, STILL... We played with app. 5 players, who were experienced players with a great deal of patience... But one day he enraged ALL of us, up to the extent we told him our opinion on the matter ONCE again and "letting the smoke in"... What had happened? Well... that dumb, unsensible b**** committed an act of combined munchkinism/dumbness when her character tried to kill a priest of Rondra (female human goddess of valor, combat , etc. who is part of the pantheon of the twelve gods worshipped in the setting of TDE) because the priest had "offended" her.(The priest was a PC did a great job in playing his priest, and it was according to his character profile) Well... The priest got slain hideously by the DMs gfs character, while he was sleeping in-game... Guess what... we discovered what she had done... Then we wanted to deal with her... Apply the justice that is appropriate for killing a priest in TDE... Guess what happened... The dumb fu** of a DM made up a magician who teleported her away just for the metagame matter of not letting her character die because [DM quote:] "Some inferior brigands want to kill her..." That was the point where most of us players errupted into swearing and cursing his "style" of DMing The Dark Eye... 3 of us left the table commentless just shaking their heads... Me and a buddy of mine staid a bit longer to comment on the cra* he made up...(I died so while tearing my char sheet to pieces, piled these up in an ashtray, and soaked em with lighter gasoline...) Right before my buddy left the table, i lighted that pile o' paper... Volker, who was quite enraged himself but still not getting any clue, asked why we were so enraged... i told him, and asked why he f***** up the whole campaign by "blowing icing sugar up hiss girlfriends a** through a straw"... And then he said: "My Girlfriend is the only hero in the campaign and you're a bunch of unworthy idiots!" Well... I replied with a sardonic "You're the worst DM i ever had since i started... You were the first DM to teach me that role playing stuff... but you are just an egoistic, sadistic, unrealistic dumbs***. You are no DM. F*** You, and goodbye!" He was quite a bit confused. He asked: "Hey dude, whats burning in that ashtray?" I said: "My sheet of a character i'd like to see in a campaign, but which you fu**** up with the help of your girlfriend." Well... this event didn't even end our relationship but also our gaming group. What i have learned from that... Never EVER let your DM get his gf into your group. It EVER ruins the game at critical points of the campaign. If never experienced the opposite. Honestly.
snowlynx 06-15-05, 10:23 AM	Never EVER let your DM get his gf into your group. It EVER ruins the game at critical points of the campaign. If never experienced the opposite. Honestly. ...? Seriously, I know a lot of couples who game. They handle it in a more appropriate manner (well, other then the couple I mentioned in my post, but as I said they are FINE if one of them is not the DM.) It seems your experience is different, but it's not the way all gamers are!
Nom 06-15-05, 10:33 AM	Despite the hostility some people have toward couples playing together, I know many who do so successfully. In fact, at least 3 pairs of posters on this board play together, with one or other in the DM's seat, and they seem to manage it just fine. Likewise, one of my regular play-groups has two couples, and we've run campaigns of varying length with one or other man as DM. The problem comes from a lack of maturity, where the DM cannot treat their partner roughly equally, and is unwilling to expect the same standards of behaviour from their partner as from the rest of the group. It doesn't have to be that way, however. Some women have a need to be fawned over; some prefer to be respected instead, and for the male to set a good example. The latter sort of relationships tend to last a lot longer.
Lacloix 06-15-05, 10:47 AM	Some advice for everybody. If faced with D&D vs. She who provides the loving, there is no contest. Oh, I know...that's why I avoid gaming with people where such things are a conflict. I've gamed with couples before where everything was cool...but the aforementioned case was a little....well... :rolleyes:
The Half-Orc Wizard 06-15-05, 11:43 AM	Couples and DnD rarely, if ever, mix. Right now, my group has a player's gf joining, and I can assure you half the group is upset with it. Nothing terrible has happened, just it seems to make everyone uncomfortable, which is perfectly understandable. What you need is a really mature player/DM to bring their significant other to the gaming session. Obviously, you don't have that. What I suggest you do is the same thing you would do if this was just another player whining and getting his way. Complain to the DM that the player is ruining the game for others, and make it clear that you can't stand for that. Let him know that you are opposed to having his girlfriend at the sessions, and if he absolutely has to do it, he better act more mature about it. As my friend used to say, "bros before hoes."
Thorak 06-15-05, 11:48 AM	*roflmfao* Oh my f******* goodness... that's a real WEAK DM. Grab your source books, get a grip and DM yourself. Honestly. I'm fed up of hearing those tales of DMs letting their "Ben-Dover-Piece" play in their campaigns and ruin the fun for everyone... Yes. Heaven forbid someone try to include the person they care for in the activities they enjoy. If you didn't detect the sarcasm, you need your brain checked. [Offtopic tale of my own once experiencing that kind of c*** DM-ing: I once played with a DM named Volker... we played The Dark Eye... One day his gf had the "great" idea of joining in(in an already ongoing campaign, with character levels far too high for beginners, and on our disaproval) despite the facts that she 1) never did roleplay before[/quote] So? Everyone starts somewhere, and they've never roleplayed before at that time. Even you, at some point, had never roleplayed before. 2) didn't even read the rulesbooks There's a lot to learn. Maybe she was intimidated. Anyone offer to help her? 3) kept on insisting to play a demonologist because "it's so cool and i like mangas and stuff!"(that b****!) And how hard, exactly, would it be to point out the classes and PrCs she could use to be a demonologist? I seem to recall that there's at least one PrC in Complete Arcane that's ideally suited to it, Alienist or some such. 4) was dumb as hell and didn't even read the rules on how to level up characters... 5) she knew nothing of how skill and ability checks worked... See comment on #2. Did you guys offer to help her learn, or were you antagonistic and mean just because she was new and had breasts? Well... we all assumed that he would mess up and ruin the game... Ahh. Antagonistic and mean. Got it. We played with app. 5 players, who were experienced players with a great deal of patience... So much patience you didn't give her a fair chance. This is one of those things that, if you have to say you have it, you probably don't. But one day he enraged ALL of us, up to the extent we told him our opinion on the matter ONCE again and "letting the smoke in"... What had happened? Well... that dumb, unsensible b**** committed an act of combined munchkinism/dumbness when her character tried to kill a priest of Rondra (female human goddess of valor, combat , etc. who is part of the pantheon of the twelve gods worshipped in the setting of TDE) because the priest had "offended" her.(The priest was a PC did a great job in playing his priest, and it was according to his character profile) Well... The priest got slain hideously by the DMs gfs character, while he was sleeping in-game... Guess what... we discovered what she had done... Then we wanted to deal with her... Apply the justice that is appropriate for killing a priest in TDE... And? If she was Evil, or even Neutral, I can see the justification here. It could have been very much in character. Both ways, for that matter. Even if she was Good, he may simply have not understood alignment. If her character is the type to kill when offended, she's not Good. Guess what happened... The dumb fu** of a DM made up a magician who teleported her away just for the metagame matter of not letting her character die because [DM quote:] "Some inferior brigands want to kill her..." That was the point where most of us players errupted into swearing and cursing his "style" of DMing The Dark Eye... 3 of us left the table commentless just shaking their heads... So, when you couldn't enact "eye for an eye" vengeance, these three threw a hissy fit and left? Me and a buddy of mine staid a bit longer to comment on the cra* he made up...(I died so while tearing my char sheet to pieces, piled these up in an ashtray, and soaked em with lighter gasoline...) Right before my buddy left the table, i lighted that pile o' paper... Volker, who was quite enraged himself but still not getting any clue, asked why we were so enraged... i told him, and asked why he f***** up the whole campaign by "blowing icing sugar up hiss girlfriends a** through a straw"... That was hardly called for. If you're using language like that, are you really surprised he took offense? And then he said: "My Girlfriend is the only hero in the campaign and you're a bunch of unworthy idiots!" Well... I replied with a sardonic "You're the worst DM i ever had since i started... You were the first DM to teach me that role playing stuff... but you are just an egoistic, sadistic, unrealistic dumbs***. You are no DM. F*** You, and goodbye!" So, he introduced you to the game and taught you how to roleplay, but he's the 'worst DM you've ever had since you started'. And he, apparently, had more patience with you than you had with his girlfriend. I'm not understanding why this deserves you insulting him. He was quite a bit confused. Understandably so. He asked: "Hey dude, whats burning in that ashtray?" I said: "My sheet of a character i'd like to see in a campaign, but which you fu**** up with the help of your girlfriend." Well... this event didn't even end our relationship but also our gaming group. What i have learned from that... Never EVER let your DM get his gf into your group. It EVER ruins the game at critical points of the campaign. If never experienced the opposite. Honestly. One experience does not a universal truth make. Especially when you and the rest of the group were the ones being antagonistic, nasty, and mean-spirited throughout. The group didn't break up because the DM brought his girlfriend in. The group broke up because you guys couldn't step off your high horses long enough to try and help this girl learn the game, the same way the DM helped you, at least, to learn the game.
The Half-Orc Wizard 06-15-05, 12:27 PM	One experience does not a universal truth make. Especially when you and the rest of the group were the ones being antagonistic, nasty, and mean-spirited throughout. The group didn't break up because the DM brought his girlfriend in. The group broke up because you guys couldn't step off your high horses long enough to try and help this girl learn the game, the same way the DM helped you, at least, to learn the game. It sounds like both the DM and the player were at fault. The DM was doing a poor job of teaching the player by pulling punches and babying her. But, that being said, you make a lot of good points. The players should have a little more understanding. Treat her like any other player. That includes acting somewhat civil.
ToriMidori 06-15-05, 12:28 PM	DO you really expect him to tell his Girl Friend NO? Thats just not a smart thing to do.. Hahahaha. I wish someone would tell my boyfriend that just for his general information. ^_^ As for what you can do, next time she's whining about it, just remind her (in a nice, calm way), that it's a group game. Everyone has tasks, everyone has to take turns, and the spotlight can't always be on one player/character. ~Tori
High Octane 06-15-05, 12:44 PM	She KILLED a good priest. A GOOD party found about about the ruthless and honorless killing of their friend, and they reacted by killing her back. Or rather trying. They are upset because she got a deus ex machina that no one else would have gotten, after she commited one of the great cardinal sins of D&D- killing a fellow PC. The favoritism is bad enough, but not worthy of a burning character sheet. That is until he started saying the situation was their fault, and getting REAL condescending on them. It is EXTREMELY insulting to be called "inferior players" by your DM, but being told that a person who had never played before and wasnt playing very well at all was better than them, it would send ANYONE into a fit. He wasnt alone, 4 other players were ****** about it. As for the "never played before" thats alright, but if you are going to play ANY game which people have played before, you should at least read the rules, if not have someone teach you BEFORE the game. Having the game grind to a halt because of one player learning disrupts it. She was the DM'S GIRLFRIEND! She could have learned it from him no problem. As for the demonologist, thats just a Warlock or Wizard with lots of ranks in knowledge(Planes). Of course, if it was a character who was incompatible with the party (evil or horribly chaotic or practiced dark magics) then she should have picked another character. As for the murdering situation, it may have been a newbie mistake, and the DM should have intervened, but not like that. It was her fault, but again, shes new. "And then he said: "My Girlfriend is the only hero in the campaign and you're a bunch of unworthy idiots!" " If this is a direct quote, it should be obvious he was being an ***hole. When someone tells 5 of his long time friends that they are ALL idiots, hes got problems.
On_the_wings_of_TPK 06-15-05, 01:10 PM	I rember a time when i used to do the hole broes before hoes and what not and then when one of my gfs entered the room it became a completely different story..... Ahh the days of being a teenager again.... You could talk to him about, but i doubt that would do anything. As you would be implying that he is whipped, and that would be an afront to his man hood. Thus he would be forced to defend himself, and then things would just get ugly. You could talk to her, but then you would implying that she is a whinny brat of gf, and manipultive to top it off. Witch would of course raise her eternal anger and set her on a course for womanly vengence. Even more ugly then a man defending the length of his member. Heres; what i recomend that you do: Offer to DM. The situation is likely strained due to the DM being ''in-control" and the player upset about it. Just rember use an iron fist and be fair to everyone, including the female who hath dared to intrude on the domain of the male geek. Or just feed her to the pit fiend ;)
Nuntius128 06-15-05, 01:15 PM	Just play something I call "Paladin Rule 0." What you do is find any posible way to justify killing the character, and challenge em to one-on-one combat. The righteous always prevail, otherwise, they would've rolled better. :D :D
Thorak 06-15-05, 01:42 PM	It sounds like both the DM and the player were at fault. The DM was doing a poor job of teaching the player by pulling punches and babying her. But, that being said, you make a lot of good points. The players should have a little more understanding. Treat her like any other player. That includes acting somewhat civil. Agreed. I came down hard because of the subtext in that post; I can see justifications for what the girlfriend did, though the DM obviously favoured her a bit (but, from the post, all I see is the "get out of crap free" card), but I didn't see anything to justify the venom in the response to it. She KILLED a good priest. A GOOD party found about about the ruthless and honorless killing of their friend, and they reacted by killing her back. Or rather trying. And, IMHO, this is all good RP. Nothing states that every PC has to get along with the rest. It's unfortunate planning, but it's legit. The issue here is mixing an evil character with a good party, not "girlfriends of DMs shouldn't play". They are upset because she got a deus ex machina that no one else would have gotten, after she commited one of the great cardinal sins of D&D- killing a fellow PC. That's not a cardinal sin in D&D. If it makes sense in-character, then it should be done. And she was a demonologist. That doesn't scream "happy-fun good guy" to me. The favoritism is bad enough, but not worthy of a burning character sheet. That is until he started saying the situation was their fault, and getting REAL condescending on them. It is EXTREMELY insulting to be called "inferior players" by your DM, but being told that a person who had never played before and wasnt playing very well at all was better than them, it would send ANYONE into a fit. I don't see that he called them inferior players. He called their characters inferior, but that may have been an IC comment by the mage that yoinked her out of there, and the PCs likely were inferior to him. And it's easily possible for someone who's never RPed before to do really well at it. Experience doesn't mean you're great. Nor does inexperience mean you suck. He wasnt alone, 4 other players were ****** about it. Which means nothing except that all 4 were equally culpable for being rude and nasty to her. As for the "never played before" thats alright, but if you are going to play ANY game which people have played before, you should at least read the rules, if not have someone teach you BEFORE the game. Having the game grind to a halt because of one player learning disrupts it. She was the DM'S GIRLFRIEND! She could have learned it from him no problem. You mean like he taught the other player(s)? He taught at least the OP how to play, and that was likely in a campaign as well. And she doesn't seem to have known nothing; she made a character. The OP just cites two things she didn't "get". As for the demonologist, thats just a Warlock or Wizard with lots of ranks in knowledge(Planes). Of course, if it was a character who was incompatible with the party (evil or horribly chaotic or practiced dark magics) then she should have picked another character. True, but that's often a lesson learned from experience. As for the murdering situation, it may have been a newbie mistake, and the DM should have intervened, but not like that. It was her fault, but again, shes new. Exactly. They overreacted to her inexperience. "And then he said: "My Girlfriend is the only hero in the campaign and you're a bunch of unworthy idiots!" " If this is a direct quote, it should be obvious he was being an ***hole. When someone tells 5 of his long time friends that they are ALL idiots, hes got problems. Agreed, if this was a direct quote and in no way an IC thing, then it was out of line. But, let's be fair, the other players pushed every damn button to set him off. This doesn't make it OK, but neither does his reaction excuse their actions.
On_the_wings_of_TPK 06-15-05, 01:45 PM	She KILLED a good priest. A GOOD party found about about the ruthless and honorless killing of their friend, and they reacted by killing her back. Or rather trying. hate to break it to you, but she was evil and killing a good preist is perfectly in line with being an evil demon worshipper. Revenge on the other hand is and not in line with a good characters alignment. They are upset because she got a deus ex machina that no one else would have gotten, after she commited one of the great cardinal sins of D&D- killing a fellow PC. Not the methood i would have used, but i can see the logic behind not allowing the rest of the group gang up on the newbie. Personally i would have let her pay for her mistakes, but NPCs would have done the dispensing of justice, not my players! The favoritism is bad enough, but not worthy of a burning character sheet. That is until he started saying the situation was their fault, and getting REAL condescending on them. I wasd not privvy to the crumbling of that group therefor i will refrain from commenting on whos fualt is whos. It is EXTREMELY insulting to be called "inferior players" by your DM, but being told that a person who had never played before and wasnt playing very well at all was better than them, it would send ANYONE into a fit. I work in call centre. I get called a lot worse things then inferior, and i have to keep my cool. This is only game, there is NEVER a reason for name calling, especailly over a game. As for the "never played before" thats alright, but if you are going to play ANY game which people have played before, you should at least read the rules, if not have someone teach you BEFORE the game. Having the game grind to a halt because of one player learning disrupts it. She was the DM'S GIRLFRIEND! She could have learned it from him no problem. I DM for 6 poeple right now, soon to be 7. I have personally tuaght all of them but 2 to play the game. i ahve also tuaght others whom i no longer game with to play. I'm not sure if you have ever tuaght anyone the game, but it involves a lot more then just handing someone the PHB ans saying "here read this, character creatation is on friday." teaching someone the game takes time and patients. expecting a new player to know everything right off the start is abusrd.As for the demonologist, thats just a Warlock or Wizard with lots of ranks in knowledge(Planes). Of course, if it was a character who was incompatible with the party (evil or horribly chaotic or practiced dark magics) then she should have picked another character. And how many "paladin in an evil party threads do we read about on these boards. What about the classic NE assassin in an all good party? I think this same mistake is more common then some would ammit. i had it in my group. I delt with it. But it does honestly seem to be a fairly common newbie mistake. And again expecting a new play to just know things like this is well absurd. You must give them time to learn these things As for the murdering situation, it may have been a newbie mistake, and the DM should have intervened, but not like that. It was her fault, but again, shes new. Agreed. "And then he said: "My Girlfriend is the only hero in the campaign and you're a bunch of unworthy idiots!" " If this is a direct quote, it should be obvious he was being an ***hole. When someone tells 5 of his long time friends that they are ALL idiots, hes got problems. If five of my freinds starting freaking out ofver a game i would say that they would be acting like idiots as well. Acting like a child is acting like a child regardless of whos doing it.
DonGnocci 06-15-05, 05:39 PM	Yes. Heaven forbid someone try to include the person they care for in the activities they enjoy. If you didn't detect the sarcasm, you need your brain checked. [Offtopic tale of my own once experiencing that kind of c*** DM-ing: I once played with a DM named Volker... we played The Dark Eye... One day his gf had the "great" idea of joining in(in an already ongoing campaign, with character levels far too high for beginners, and on our disaproval) despite the facts that she 1) never did roleplay before So? Everyone starts somewhere, and they've never roleplayed before at that time. Even you, at some point, had never roleplayed before. There's a lot to learn. Maybe she was intimidated. Anyone offer to help her? And how hard, exactly, would it be to point out the classes and PrCs she could use to be a demonologist? I seem to recall that there's at least one PrC in Complete Arcane that's ideally suited to it, Alienist or some such. See comment on #2. Did you guys offer to help her learn, or were you antagonistic and mean just because she was new and had breasts? Ahh. Antagonistic and mean. Got it. So much patience you didn't give her a fair chance. This is one of those things that, if you have to say you have it, you probably don't. And? If she was Evil, or even Neutral, I can see the justification here. It could have been very much in character. Both ways, for that matter. Even if she was Good, he may simply have not understood alignment. If her character is the type to kill when offended, she's not Good. So, when you couldn't enact "eye for an eye" vengeance, these three threw a hissy fit and left? That was hardly called for. If you're using language like that, are you really surprised he took offense? So, he introduced you to the game and taught you how to roleplay, but he's the 'worst DM you've ever had since you started'. And he, apparently, had more patience with you than you had with his girlfriend. I'm not understanding why this deserves you insulting him. Understandably so. One experience does not a universal truth make. Especially when you and the rest of the group were the ones being antagonistic, nasty, and mean-spirited throughout. The group didn't break up because the DM brought his girlfriend in. The group broke up because you guys couldn't step off your high horses long enough to try and help this girl learn the game, the same way the DM helped you, at least, to learn the game.[/QUOTE] I mentioned, that it was NOT D&D. Read my post or be quiet please. Thanks.
Santrilla 06-15-05, 06:17 PM	I mentioned, that it was NOT D&D. Read my post or be quiet please. Thanks. Uh... Where? Also, I find it quite hilarious that you guys are typing out of furious anger so fast that you can't get your quote tags right. Slow down- remember, the tortoise won the race.
Iron Kobold 06-15-05, 06:20 PM	One option that hasn't been mentioned… Find your Dm a better looking GF. One in which you get along with and can tolerate in the game... :D Now the other options: GFs like getting attention from their BFs. It’s a simple fact of life. And depending on the emotional security of the GF this need for attention can become quite unending. But as long as you take the 'less of a threat' role you can probably make this bad situation into something good. Come in one day and tell your DM you want to change characters. State that you current build is not complimenting the group very well and with his permission you'd like to change. next create a character that is 'harmonious' with the GF character. Example: You: Hey can I build a new character? DM: Um sure... what do you have in mind? You: I was thinking of building a barbarian protector from the Ice Mountains. GF: hey... that's where my character is from. You: yeah I want to take a life oath and my characters job will be to ensure her protection. GF: Oooh goodie... That sounds great! DM: Sure why not. You: Would it be possible to a draconic template added to my character? I mean it fits with the theme of her being a sorcerer and having dragon blood. All I want is the +4 natural armor bonus and claws... DM: Gee I don't know... GF: I think it’s an excellent idea!
TrackStar 06-15-05, 07:06 PM	I DM a game where my gf is in it. Its fun becasue I give her the shaft alot and its funny. She is real cool about it and all my players like her because she is nice and humble and doesnt expect to have any attention. It is rather fun! :D
Santrilla 06-15-05, 07:23 PM	Its fun becasue I give her the shaft alot and its funny. I'm not sure that she would like you broadcasting that across the internet... ;)
Eliza_Stormwhisper 06-15-05, 07:44 PM	And, IMHO, this is all good RP. Nothing states that every PC has to get along with the rest. It's an unwritten rule. D&D is first and foremost a team game, and in order for a team to succeed, they must get along. Believe me, I didn't believe in team chemistry for a while either, then I played high school hockey where it was a bunch of talented players (except me, I sucked) but they all hated each other. Our final record that season: 4-14-2. Next season, we had a lot less talent (I somehow managed to get worse), but no player had any major problems with another player. Our final record that season: 11-10-1. We even made the playoffs and pulled a first round upset against a far superior team talent-wise (but they probably didn't like each other much; we beat them 2-1). Lost 6-1 in the second round, though.
Bane's hand 06-15-05, 07:50 PM	One of the sorriest sights in this world is a overjoyed, insecure man who just found his first girlfriend and tries to keep her like there would be no tommorow without her. Unfortunately this is a mistake many unexpirienced men do. Personally, I think there is nothing you can do but patience or DM yourself.
Bruunwald 06-15-05, 08:03 PM	Forget going to your friend about it. Given a choice between you and his girlfriend, he'll side with her, even if he secretly agrees with you. However, this does not mean you can't do anything. Just aim for the real target. The girlfriend. The next time she whines because she's not the center of attention, tell her to, exactly, "Stop whining because you're not the center of attention." Call her on it. Make sure you stay calm, so that if she goes nuts at being called on it, you look like the sane rational one. And she very well may turn to her boyfriend to bring you back in line. If she does, look him in the eye and say something like "Look, I'm not trying to make this about you and her, just about the way she treats the rest of us during the game." If she keeps flipping out, and he still decides he'd rather have a peaceful romantic life than a peaceful D&D session, then you've done what you can. Going any further is only asking for trouble, the kind of trouble you'll likely be on the wrong side of. Above all else, stay calm and rational. This is really bad advice if you want to remain friends with the friend and if you don't care if he blames you for breaking he and his woman up. Don't get me wrong: it's great advice if you want to shut her up, **** her off, or generally make them mad at you, each other, and really uncomfortable with the whole situation. The WORST thing you can do in a situation that is romantically tied to two individuals with whom you are not romantically tied, is to get in the middle or insult one in front of the other. You will alienate your friend, trust me. What you need to do is approach him individually and ask him if he notices this behavior, or let him know your concerns. Or you need to leave the game. If you don't want him resenting you forever for the time you ****** "Jane" off, you won't just come out with it during a game.
Old French Admiral 06-15-05, 08:18 PM	I concur with Eliza. While killing other players may seem justifiable from a role-playing point of view, it is generally inexcusable. As many have already said, it's a GAME. Regardless of the roleplaying motives, when the roleplaying begins to interfere with everyone's enjoyment of the game, an alternate path must be sought. There really is no good reason to go and kill another PC, it's just common decency. -Old French Admiral
lady_ghofen 06-15-05, 08:56 PM	This problem sounds more like a maturity issue between the guy/girl, as opposed to a problem with a girlfriend/fiancee/wife playing a player under her boyfriend/fiancee/husband as a DM, or vice versa. I wonder if the girl(s) in question in the various posts have been treated significantly different by the other players. If that is the case, perhaps that is why she is looking to her boyfriend/DM for attention. If the other players are not helping her out to learn the game in a respectful way, well, then that won't help this sort of situation. Perhaps she never met any of the other players, or doesn't feel comfortable with them. I'm not trying to sound biased here, but based on DonGnucci said, it seems like people were outwardly hostile to her. That's not a cool way to act towards anyone. Seriously. Clearly, this was her first time gaming, regardless of the system used, and you can't expect any new gamer to know appropiate context, all the die rolls and skill usages. Would it have made any difference in the situation if this were a guy you were talking about, and not the DMs girlfriend? I was lucky. When I met my now-fiancee, he immediately introduced me to all his friends, and for the most part, we got along very well. He also quickly re-introduced my to 2E AD&D, which I had a brief encounter with when I was seven, but never at the time got to play. It's been great since then. The other players worked with me to help me learn the ropes just as they have helped others in the years since. A blanket statement of "A DMs girlfriend doesn't belong in his campaign," is completely ignorant. Perhaps judgments shouldn't come so quickly. Good luck in the future.
Thorak 06-15-05, 09:28 PM	I mentioned, that it was NOT D&D. Read my post or be quiet please. Thanks. And? I don't believe anything I said was specific to the game. It was all referring to the attitudes of the various people involved. It's an unwritten rule. D&D is first and foremost a team game, and in order for a team to succeed, they must get along. Yes, but for many groups, the purpose of playing is not to succeed as a group, but to have their characters interact as if they were real people, and if your character would kill another one, so be it. My current party's had us turn on each other a few times, mostly due to magical compulsion (though, recently, my Paladin got Silenced Blindness cast on him by the sorceror because his Wis had been drained to 3 and he was causing havoc by running around poking into everything with the attention span of a gnat.) Of course, as players, we're all perfectly capable of separating what our characters are doing from who we are. His character Blinding mine doesn't hurt me, and it was funny. I'd be being childish if I threw a tantrum about it. Not that you shouldn't try to work together. But, if it comes down to it, and the CN has killed someone in cold blood and the Paladin cannot let it go without forsaking his beliefs, then so be it. This is really bad advice if you want to remain friends with the friend and if you don't care if he blames you for breaking he and his woman up. Don't get me wrong: it's great advice if you want to shut her up, **** her off, or generally make them mad at you, each other, and really uncomfortable with the whole situation. The WORST thing you can do in a situation that is romantically tied to two individuals with whom you are not romantically tied, is to get in the middle or insult one in front of the other. Note how I very specifically say to remain completely calm while discussing this, regardless of anyone else's actions, and that nothing I suggested he say was insulting, unless you consider being called on something an insult. Heck, I even put a line in there explicitly to tell the DM that you weren't trying to involve him as a mediator, just trying to discuss the matter with his girlfriend. Frankly, I don't see that the DM has much role to play in the discussion. It's a group of friends, he's not the king. And the issue isn't an in-game one, it's a basic politeness and team play one. You will alienate your friend, trust me. What you need to do is approach him individually and ask him if he notices this behavior, or let him know your concerns. Or you need to leave the game. If you don't want him resenting you forever for the time you ****** "Jane" off, you won't just come out with it during a game. See, this is what I don't think will work. If you go to him individually, he'll either side with his girlfriend because he's supposed to, or he'll possibly agree with you but suggest he's unable to do anything because he wants to keep her happy. The DM can't fix the problem; that's my point. It's a problem the group has to solve, not just the DM. So don't use him as a referee, especially because he's biased. Just take it straight to her. Then he's not involved, except peripherally, and you're not coming between the two of them. You're also not saying "It's me or her", which will result 95% of the time in you leaving. Which I'm sure isn't what the OP wants, or he wouldn't have posted. You're saying "I don't mind you playing with us, but we think you have been hogging the spotlight a bit. And just because you're his girlfriend doesn't mean you have that right to snub the rest of us."
xl_Ghost_lx 06-15-05, 10:10 PM	I think that we each have different experiences that truly put us on or off of letting a GF/BF sit at the table and play with our group, and even more so with our DM as the other in the relationship. Well from what I have seen here the boards are about 50/50 on in favor or not. Remember most of us feel this way because of experiences we have had. The lucky few of us don’t see this as a problem. More then likely we were blessed with good BF/GF or Great DM’s. Others painfully obviously were not. That being said I can say myself that I have been a DM for nearly 20 years now. I have seen my fair share of Good couples and bad join my group. Personally I have to date only had one Bad couple at my table. I have turned a few away in my time due to the fact that usually after talking to a gamer couple for about 15 min you will be able to tell if the romance factor in there relationship is going to play a factor in your game or not. Two of the best players I have come across my table are a husband and wife couple. At the table you would swear they hate each other with all there soul. But that’s because they really enjoy bringing out the best role player in one and other. Myself my lovely wife is one of my longest players at my table. She also tells me the exact opposite of what I have heard here. My dear little lovely very often points out that as a DM I hold her to a far higher level of scrutiny so that our other players never feel that she is being played favorite. I must not be too hard on her she has been with me now for more then 10 years and given me a lovely son of 9 years as well. And now were grooming our own ill gamer boy. D&D is a centerpiece of our relationship. We both look forward to every game session and she is my biggest fan. I know each week that I have to bring my A game to the table as a DM or she will let me know I am letting the group down. RARE is it that she takes the spotlight in my games but never is she forgotten. She now knows the game better then most male players I know and can quote Dm rulebooks better then the most die hard rules lawyer. How did this come about then, how did we beat the odds. I would have to say it is because from day one when she entered not only my gaming table but my life I told her I would hold her at the game to the same standards as everyone else. The cardinal rule that I live by at my table. If the Dm says so then that’s how it will be. Discussion is for after the game. And when the subject comes up that we may need talk about a rule call then we stop game a few min early and then we handle what occurred. What does this long winded post boil down too . its not always a bad idea to let a GF/BF play in your game or even have one be your DM. But if either is not mature and willing to let the game be a game and take things personally then your in for a rough ride. Just wanted to say there can be a silver lining in that dark cloud of D&D relationships.
Always-Late 06-15-05, 11:20 PM	You know what? Just because, in a strictly role-playing sense, my character would rape the rest of the party, doesn't mean I should do it. Yeah, it's interaction between real people - my serial rapist and the rest of the party, but it's stupid as hell and none of the other characters are going to especially like me for it. Roleplaying < Fun. Why else do you play?
Thorak 06-15-05, 11:46 PM	You know what? Just because, in a strictly role-playing sense, my character would rape the rest of the party, doesn't mean I should do it. Yeah, it's interaction between real people - my serial rapist and the rest of the party, but it's stupid as hell and none of the other characters are going to especially like me for it. Roleplaying < Fun. Why else do you play? This is an example of a player being a twit. What reason could you have for wanting to be a serial rapist? However, what about my "I will rule the world someday, and whoever gets in my way will be cut down like so much chaff" character? He's LE. If the NG priest of Pelor tries to stop me from doing something I absolutely must do to further my cause, then he's a dead man. Even if that something is torturing the snot out of this badguy's woman, for information. Here, it's the Priest of Pelor that's causing the problem. He's the one interfering in the other character. He is the one who started the problem. Just because you're Good doesn't mean you're innocent; you could very well be the one sparking trouble. The priest stopping the LE guy is no different than the LE guy deciding to use torture in the first place. Both are choices dictated by their alignments. A smart group makes sure it's alignments generally mesh well, but if they don't, they have no reason to whine about it when they give the evil guy reason to kill them.
Always-Late 06-15-05, 11:51 PM	So why make an evil character in the first place? It's a good group.
TrackStar 06-16-05, 01:33 AM	I'm not sure that she would like you broadcasting that across the internet... ;) Double meaning and all! ;)
Eliza_Stormwhisper 06-16-05, 01:51 AM	I'm a DM, and I play with my girlfriend. If anything I'm harder on her than the other three players.
Thorak 06-16-05, 01:53 AM	So why make an evil character in the first place? It's a good group. Because the conflict makes for interesting roleplay. Evil doesn't mean you're psychotic. And many of us (like, say, my entire group) are at least as interested in the inter-party dynamic as we are with the campaign itself. Conflict = interesting. Otherwise, novels would be about that really nice sunny day. The corollary is that there's also no reason not to take out another PC if he pushes you too far. By the very same token that the guy playing an evil character shouldn't just flip out and massacre the party because he's got a hangnail, neither should the party be deliberately hitting his buttons and then screaming when he reacts as they should have expected him to.
Enslaved DM 06-16-05, 04:33 AM	It's really a maturity issue. Some people can handle the situation of gming with their s.o. and some people can't. As for killing other players, it should rarely happen. Even evil bastard characters should be smart enough to realize that the group is their best shield when things get hot. There are exceptions. Someone murdering another party member in their sleep is going to get axed, unless the other party members also want the victim dead. Taking said person out is completely within the bounds of being good aligned.
Ra-Tiel 06-16-05, 06:40 AM	Hi. === The problem you all seem to have with the situation DonGnocci presented is that The Black Eye =! Dungeons and Dragons. The only similarities in system and setting is: both use [1 or more] d20. That's it. The situation DonGnocci described would be similar to a character in Eberron being a necromancer, follower of The Blood of Vol, killing the good and beloved high priest of the Sovereign Host in Sharn and wondering why 80% of the city want her head, all because "I like mangas and stuff and demonology/necromancy is KEWL". As it seems there was no sane reason for her character acting like that, as if she fell victim to the "I'm evil so I must kill [N]PCs whenever I can, because I'm evil" syndrom. Is that more clear? It simply breaks the setting to allow a character in TBE to get away with something like that. And as a reminder: in TBE, there is NO way that necromancy(NM)/demonology(DL) is even remotely considered good. Thinking you could use NM/DL for good ends is like thinking that Vecna has a orphanage and I giving hot soup to the poor in winter. :rolleyes: --- And as somebody has already pointed out, she should have had more than enought time to learn at least the basics of the system/setting before joining the game. But perhaps [insert mature-only activity] was more important for the couple than talking/thinking about the gaming group. Or how would you react if I joined your FR game, knowing absolutely nothing about the system and the setting, playing an evil necromancer "just because it's 1337 and KEWL and I can PWN111 everyone", kill a paladin in his sleep, who was a very good friend to the rest of the party, and then expect or even demand that my character doesn't receive any punishment and you save me from that "stupid idiots" of the other players' characters? Do you all really want to tell me you wouldn't mind that? *looks for a list to sign up for breaking countless campaigns without getting into any trouble* === Greetings, _Ra-Tiel.
High Octane 06-16-05, 10:00 AM	Thank you Ra-Tiel, that clears up a lot. Getting back the original poster and the heart of the thread, how do you handle a DM whose signifigant other is in the game and either she is ruining the game or he is playing favorites. If you ask me, the best course of action is talk to the DM and see if s/he can do anything about his/her signifigant other. Be mature and honest. If that doesnt work, talk to the distruptive player. Be nice, dont be condescending, and above all, explain why everything is disruptive and how she can stop it. If that doesnt work, which is likely if they are immature, talk to everyone else in the group if they agree, and have the rest of them, with you, as a group, talk to the DM. He wont be able to claim its personal if the entire group is behind the fact. It will put him in a position where he knows the full extent of his signifigant other's actions. If that doesnt work, pack up and leave.
JohnnyShotMe 06-16-05, 10:09 AM	I find it entertaining some of you have taken her obviously novice actions in the game and attempted to make her out to be a roleplayer. You might as well sit a baboon at the table and imply it is "roleplaying" a barbarian. Just quit the campaign. Explain to him things can't continue on like that and if he wants to get together and go golfing/fishing/bowling/whatever you're up for it, but D&D isn't looking like it is working out.
Thorak 06-16-05, 11:01 AM	I find it entertaining some of you have taken her obviously novice actions in the game and attempted to make her out to be a roleplayer. You might as well sit a baboon at the table and imply it is "roleplaying" a barbarian. I said they might be good RP. They might not be, but there's no way to tell. Just because she's new doesn't mean she doesn't know how to roleplay. Everyone played Pretend when they were kids. D&D is just Pretend with rules. Just quit the campaign. Explain to him things can't continue on like that and if he wants to get together and go golfing/fishing/bowling/whatever you're up for it, but D&D isn't looking like it is working out. See, I personally favour not throwing a hissy fit and forcing this to be a "me or her" issue. Perhaps she just doesn't understand what it's about. Instead of saying "Oh god, she's so useless!", why not spend the time you would have spent ranting uselessly teaching her how to freaking play properly. Because, seriously, the "I quit if your g/f starts playing" reaction is immature. 4 year olds act that way. You're supposed to have grown up a bit since then.
JohnnyShotMe 06-16-05, 04:31 PM	I said they might be good RP. They might not be, but there's no way to tell. Just because she's new doesn't mean she doesn't know how to roleplay. Everyone played Pretend when they were kids. D&D is just Pretend with rules. The original post plus the following additions makes the situation clearly not one of roleplaying misinterpreted. See, I personally favour not throwing a hissy fit and forcing this to be a "me or her" issue. Perhaps she just doesn't understand what it's about. Instead of saying "Oh god, she's so useless!", why not spend the time you would have spent ranting uselessly teaching her how to freaking play properly. Hissy fit and ranting uselessly is not in my suggestion. I'm making the case that if it gets bad enough, just stop playing and go have a couple beers or something with your friend. Why should OP sit around and have to put up with it? Because, seriously, the "I quit if your g/f starts playing" reaction is immature. 4 year olds act that way. You're supposed to have grown up a bit since then. Dramatic exaggeration. It's a known fact that the first person to take a disagreeing opinion out of context and use it to insult someone's maturity (or lack thereof) is hypocritical. It's less like: "I quit if your g/f starts playing" and more like: "If you are going to cater to her at the cost of everyone else's fun, why are we here?" In fact, ceasing to attend is actually the most mature stand you can take. It's about being a man and letting the guy know you're not having fun and you would like to do some other things. She's not simply a novice to the game, she's distracting and her personality interrupts the game. The OP is in a situation where he either has to be the bearer of bad news (Read: "Your gf is a *****") or he is going to have to bow out stage left and let his buddy figure it out himself. If you keep showing up, you'll reinforce the behavior as acceptable and if you try to be the one to nail her down you're likely to catch hell from him, her, or both. So, Thorak, no I don't think he should have to be a surrogate parent for this chick. Not everyone has the time nor inclination to babysit their buddy's women so they are acceptable company. That's something they need to work out on their own, and that need will only be clear if it has an actual impact...i.e. he doesn't come back for more servings of it.
Old French Admiral 06-16-05, 05:29 PM	Because, seriously, the "I quit if your g/f starts playing" reaction is immature. 4 year olds act that way. You're supposed to have grown up a bit since then. You know, I resent that. I AM 4 years old. Though, I must admit, I am unfamiliar with this "Pretend" of which you speak.