Post/Author/DateTime	Post
D-Slash 03-18-05, 08:21 PM	Hello I'm new to the forums, my friends and I want to start playing D&D, I'm the DM who is still learning (doing pretty good i think). I'm just confused on one thing. My friend wants his first level 1 character to be a Ogre. I understand that Ogres begin with 4 Giant levels which would undoubtly make him too much stronger than the rest of the first level players (even with with +2 Level Adjustment). So how would I go about helping him make a level 1 Ogre? (Did I miss something in the books or is it not really possible?)
twad 03-18-05, 08:42 PM	if this is your first game.. (just like me 2-3 weeks ago) just say no and keep it simple. Core classes and normal races only. Make him play a half-orc barbarian if he want to bash some stuff up.
Tibs 03-18-05, 08:43 PM	If I were you, I'd advise against using something so unusual for your (presumably) first DM experiance; There are rules for it (Level advancement and the like) but they can be confusing for new player (and DMs as well). I say stick with the basics until you have a firmer grasp of the rules, and ask your friend to play a standard race.
D-Slash 03-18-05, 08:56 PM	ok thank you for the advice. but for future reference how would you truly do it? (not that i'd attempt it now, maybe later on, i have to know sometime :D I would also like to mention that I do play some PC games based on D&D combat so I am familar with alot of the basic stuff implemented in 3.0 but not 3.5)
twad 03-18-05, 09:03 PM	in this case just make the whole party a bit higher in level to fit his LA. Everyone at level 3 should be fine (that means the ogre is still at lvl 1 but with his LA+2 = 3, he will level up a bit slower than the others too since he is considered at lvl 3 for the exp table)
D-Slash 03-18-05, 09:29 PM	Thanks you've been very helpful, just one last question though, Do I apply the 4 giant levels toward his character level? (as it says in the MM) and is there any good sites that explain stuff like this that you know of? (monsters as playable characters)
twad 03-18-05, 10:39 PM	MMh.. i dont think so, those 4 giants levels are there for the racial hit dices(they are just there for the hp,BaB and saves) if they would count toward the levels the LA would be more than +2 (already included i think). So no, they dont. Im new to this too so i did not tried everything yet, monster PCs are in my "unused yet" category.
twad 03-18-05, 10:40 PM	most stuff i know i learned them by asking questions, reading the books a couple of time each and reading the forums.
SOKAR 03-18-05, 11:06 PM	An ogre must start out at at least level 6: He begins with 4 levels of giant, which grant him the stuff as described in the books. Then, he has a +2 LA, which means he gains experiance and treasure as a 6th level character, and should feel right at home in a party of 3 other 6 level characters. Note that he only has 2 feats, rather then the usual three that a six level character would have, because feats, skill points, base attack bonuses, base save bonuses, and attribute increases go off your hit dice, not your Effective character level. So an ogre character has the experiance and starting wealth of a sixth level character, the feats, skill points, and atribute adjustments of a fourth level character. Remember: The above does not include class levels. Remember: An ogre does not get maximum hit points for his first class Hit Die. He does however gain maximum hit points from his first 'giant' hit dice. Remember: An ogre does not get x4 skill points for his first class level. He does, however, gain x4 skill points for his first 'giant' level. Remember: If the ogre starts the game with one class level, he is a 7th level character. I hope i didn't confuse the heck out of you...
twad 03-18-05, 11:32 PM	i did not know the 4 levels of giants counted toward the ecl (i just counted the LA).. im a bit confused. That means a ogre is quite high level for a "LA+2".. then why the LA is not +6 then??
SOKAR 03-18-05, 11:37 PM	ECL=HD+LA.
Tharivol 03-19-05, 12:03 AM	The LA is the number that you add to the total hit dice--both racial HD and class levels. An ogre with no class levels is a level 6 character, an ogre barbarian 1 is a level 7 character. An ogre can't be used as a 1st-level character by standard rules. Effective character level (ECL) is total class levels plus racial HD plus the level adjustment (LA).
D-Slash 03-19-05, 09:37 AM	Ok that makes alot of sense actually, thanks for your help.
twad 03-19-05, 01:52 PM	i learned something too, wee!