Breaking away from an empire.... [Archive] - Wizards Community

Breaking away from an empire.... [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Duke Viper
04-03-04, 11:56 PM Hi,

So I am a duke in this empire, which is very powerful and is known for its ability to bring down even the greatest of dragons with ease.

By the way I am the same person who obtained the Sword of Kas.

I want to break away from this empire. I have a small army of 650 men. Not all low level, some mid level, and such as a descent army.

My question is way to "persuade" the emperor to let me have govenership of my current property.

I was thinking about marching to his gate and demanding freedom, without bloodshed. If need be I stone shape a couple of holes in his walls and march right on through. Course he would have an army, but thats just a minor problem ;)

anyone else have any ideas?
wdarkk
04-04-04, 01:27 AM If you're a Wizard (I think I remember that), I'd recommend becoming 21st level and grabbing Epic Spellcasting, so that you could have a very nifty bargaining chip.

Or, you could planar bind in a ton of interesting things. Makes for a much more interesting army.
Arakano
04-04-04, 11:20 AM Throw his tea in the harbor. :D
elf killer 32
04-04-04, 01:21 PM Storm his own personal bastille! If your going to start a revolution, its allways good to have allies, especially ones with a bone to pick with this empire.:D
Arakano
04-04-04, 04:33 PM Yes... and don´t forget to destroy his planet-size weapon of mass destruction! May the Force(tm) be with you! :D

Fun aside, no empire is likely to accept a declaration of independence from one of its provinces without a fight. So you better hit fast and hard. :smirk:
RobTzu
04-04-04, 06:08 PM You will not win in force of arms... yet. You first need allies, perhaps other dukes willing to succeed. Even if they form their own States. Other options is to spread rumours harming the empire, look for outside help i.e; other empires. Assassinations before your succesion is also advisable. Once you have weakened the empire then strike.
FriendoftheDork
04-04-04, 07:42 PM ehm.. I got the impression that he wanted to seccede without blodshed..

Ok, first of all, if you're really an epic wizard, or even just the most powerful wizard in the empire, it would not be that hard to persuade the emperor to recognize your dukedom's independance.

This should be done by negotating with the emperor in private, not by banging on his gates with your 650 men behind you. Those men are obviouisly not your true power.

You could offer him something in exchange for independence, such as an alliance (you helping the empire with your magic).

BTW why do you want to break away from the empire? In any case, rebellion will cause blodshed, and will require alot of backing from other lords to succeed.
Heron_Marked_Blade
04-04-04, 09:44 PM Enchantment school. Charm person.
Aurotuli
04-04-04, 09:59 PM We need more info.

What are your class levels? What forces can he call upon immediately (standing armies)? What are his likely reserves and how long does it take to marshal them? What type of casters work for him? (I assume at least 1 wiz and 1 clr that can each cast 8th or 9th level spells.)

Why do you wish to break away (wish to retain / use resources without needing his approval, avoiding becoming involved in a likely future conflict between the Empire and a land bordering your own, wish to become a power in the world, the emperer is going insane / evil, etc)?

How large is the empire (in terms of land, population, resources, etc)? Where are you in relation to it (deep within its heartlands, on the frontier, between it and its enemy, etc)? Who are its allies and what are their strengths / weaknesses and positions (both diplomatic and geographic)? Who are its enemies (and their str / wknesses / etc)? Can any of its allies &/or enemies be conviced to support you? Can any major NPCs trusted by the emperer be conviced to support your cause before him (the better to leave peaceably)?

If you leave, do you intend to become an enemy of the empire, a neutral party, or an ally? Is your dukedom capable of self-support or is it dependent on certain other lands for significant resources (iron, food, wood, money, workers, etc)? Is so, what are your relations with them and what are their relations with the empire?

Needless to say, we need more info before we can seriously answer your question. A list of resources / facts regarding your dukedom, the empire, majoy potential allies / enemies of each would be nice. This should include resources such as wealth, levels of NPCs (3 wiz 9, 1 wiz 14, etc), resources (wood, gold, stone, etc), population, size, distances (how long does it take to travel from your lands to the nearest major settlement of the empire / the capital of the empire / etc). Thank you.
Duke Viper
04-04-04, 10:38 PM Ok sorry your right you need more info.

The empire is one of three on the continent, and it is the most powerful one. it is allies with the other 2 but one of those two I helped topple and kill its emporer, so it is effectively neutralized.

This empire is known for its elite group which to get in you have to kill are dragon alone. and not a small dragon mind you.

I am lvl 2 rogue, lvl 5 assassin, and lvl 13 druid. NO WIZARD.

I want to break away because I want power, simple as that, and I dont like taking orders and giving away my money to anyone, even an emporer. I am evil, all I want is power and money.

If i do break away I will not be hostil to anyone. of course, only until I need more power and money.

I do have some good bargaining chips. I did help the emporer defend his capital city, from an invadeing force, a force that was from a being that wants to tak over the world and doesnt care if he has to kill every living and non living thing do rule it.

In fact my character is very friendly with the emporer. they are sort of friends, though not quite. The emporer is also a very reasonable man.

I do not want to shed unneccesary blood, because those people that would die, could be useful to making me money and gaining me power, and protecting me.

if there is anything else you want to know please tell me I'll be happy to answer.
Aurotuli
04-04-04, 11:30 PM I want to break away because I want power, simple as that, and I dont like taking orders and giving away my money to anyone, even an emporer. I am evil, all I want is power and money.
Hmm... Alright. Let me take this apart.

I want to break away because I want power, simple as that
That is understandable. You can better achieve your purposes / ends with the power resting solely within your own hands. There are ways to have power without breaking off entirely. Perhaps become semi-autonomous. (He may not agree to this as it is arguably forever out of his empire.) Or better yet, have yourself named the Vice Roy. Basically you are then the king of the region while the emperer is not physically there. If he is there, then you are second in command. Basically this is the same as current, but you have a higher title. A prince / king from a neighboring province in the empire no longer out ranks you should they visit your dukedom. You are basically only outranked by the emperer. He may agree to this, but only so long as there is little chance of you ever seeking his throne / position. There may also be some political issues to consider (such as what the other dukes / princes / etc will think of this).

I dont like taking orders and giving away my money to anyone, even an emporer.
Also understandable, especially for an evil character (as they tend to be more selfish). Harder to deal with, however. How often do you receive orders? How often do they either 1) force you to stop doing what you are doing (either as an order to stop, or as an order to do something which takes time and effort better spent (in your opinion) on your own self-appointed tasks), or 2) interfere with you in other ways (an order to come to the capital or to travel to another province, etc). Perhaps all you really need to do is convice him that there is some important (time consuming) task in your dukedom that will likely prevent much (if not most) future travel from your dukedom. Or that requires such time and effort that you cannot waste time on lesser issues - such as his typical 'minor' orders. Be very careful how you tell the emperer this.

Money, as an issue, is addressed below.

I am evil, all I want is power and money.
I can understand the Evil and the Power-Hunger, but why the urge for money? Your main class is Druid, and you are high enough that (except for magic item creation and perhaps paying off henchmen) you can survive entirely without it. Goodberries or very simple Survival checks get you your food for the day. Wild shape and magic for combat (not taking into consideration your several levels of assassin, of course). Et cetera. Is there a background reason for the money- hunger? Or a setting region (need to pay others off, or need to pay for projects you have occuring in your dukedom, etc?)

All in all, I see your best bet as convincing the Emperer that the time delay in the chain of command between your realm and his capital is too great for efficiency. Convince him to make you a semi- autonomous Vice Roy. With your increased freedom help make your realm self- sufficient while subtly looking for allies to support you if push comes to shove. That should gain you a few years, at least.

Later, take advantage of a seeming major situation to convince (or try to convince) the emperer that it is cruicial that you be allowed to rule undisturbed. Suggest that in the future - once the difficult time has passed - that you would return to the fold of the Empire. Do not promise, just make it sound like you are stating fact rather than a suggestion. Stress that you would remain an ally to him during this troubled time - as you have in times past. If he seems reluctant, stress both the importance of the situation and the fact that he is fully strong enough* to overpower you and easily retake your kingdom should your independence become a problem for him. *(whether this is true or not)

If all else fails, simply tell him (after all of the above) that there is no more time to argue. Action MUST be taken swiftly to prevent disaster! Return post- haste to your kingdom and stop sending tribute / taxes - as if the emperer had agreed (whether he has or not). If you have chosen the moment right, it will not be worth the effort it would take to recapture your kingdom at this time, and you can use the few years you have before he is able to attempt it to 1) build up your defenses, 2) secretly seek out allies, and 3) get back in his good graces (although always change the subject if it comes to when your land will rejoin the empire).

Eventually he'll catch on, but by then - if you have prepared well, you will be so well fortified against invasion that (even if he had the ability before to take your land back) he now has little hope of (easily) taking your dukedom back into the fold. He simply has to accept your position as an independent ally rather than waste his forces on a less than certain attempt to reclaim your lands.

There is much that can go wrong in this (I do not know enough to give more than vague and general advice) but if played right and timed right you can do it - and keep him as an ally / friend as well (although he will ever be more cautious and suspitious of you, for many many years to come).
Lanoitakude
04-05-04, 11:52 PM Kill the emperor, and take his place as. That's all I gatta say 'bout that...
feng the barbarian
04-12-04, 06:23 PM i would charge right though the gates with your sword of kas kill him take the throne, and rule though fear. if anyone gets in your way blast them with that sword!!
feng the barbarian
04-12-04, 06:24 PM i would charge right though the gates with your sword of kas kill him take the throne, and rule though fear. if anyone gets in your way blast them with that sword!! and i dont think the sword would reject any of those ideas because it is evil
Duke Viper
04-12-04, 06:49 PM Well since I am a druid, I cannot weild weapons such as The Sword of Kas, in combat. I mean i can hold onto it, I just cant swing it.

But I have convinced him to let me be a Vice-Roy, so thats settled. I also got the land of one of my partyy members, as long as he could be the general in my army.

And an NPC baron, I am going to rid my self of, so that I have access to the coast.

My power, and influence, is growing throughout the empire, it is only a matter of time before things are in my favor.

Besides, since I let my assassins guild reside on my pproperty, they owe me a couple of favors. Same with a druid tribe/settlement that lives near by my keep.

Soon enough, i will have alot of people who all owe me favors, and one day I will call upon them to use those favors, and when that day comes I will be emporer.

Thanks for all the suggestions. I appreciate it.
Eric3_14159
04-12-04, 07:59 PM <Warcraft> Walk into his thrown room, holding your sword. Walk right up to the emperor. When he asks what you are doing, say "Succeding you" and kill him with your sword. Now, ignore your druid levels and begin advancing in Wizard (Nercomancer) </Warcraft>
feng the barbarian
04-12-04, 08:07 PM feng agree with Eric3_14159 smash poor emporer with sword lose druid powers for 24 hours big deal. arcane magic is alot cooler than nature stuff
Duke Viper
04-12-04, 09:33 PM With all due respect, and tons offence, are you guys retarded?!?!?!:uh-huh: I mean seriously are your dumb?:looloo:

Why would I give up my abilities to Wildshape, just for a few wizard spells? I mean personally, I get tons of use out of stone shape, and woodshape, I have 4 treants that agreed to guarding my keep. I mean seriously. I can fuggin talk to anything, and I can shapechange into anything. Why would I want to start anew with wizard spells?

Seriously, think before you open your mouth next time. :teach: people like you really :censored::censored::censored::censored: people like me off, I mean not everyone who playes D&D wants to be a fighter, or a wizard.:banghead:
Eric3_14159
04-12-04, 10:16 PM I'm sorry I offended you and your Druid. It's just that this thread made me think of a scene in a computer game where someone walks up to the king with an evil sword and kills him then and there.
Duke Viper
04-13-04, 04:22 PM Its ok, it wasnt just you, it was the moron speaking in thrid person, saying arcane magic is much better.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Duke Viper 04-03-04, 11:56 PM	Hi, So I am a duke in this empire, which is very powerful and is known for its ability to bring down even the greatest of dragons with ease. By the way I am the same person who obtained the Sword of Kas. I want to break away from this empire. I have a small army of 650 men. Not all low level, some mid level, and such as a descent army. My question is way to "persuade" the emperor to let me have govenership of my current property. I was thinking about marching to his gate and demanding freedom, without bloodshed. If need be I stone shape a couple of holes in his walls and march right on through. Course he would have an army, but thats just a minor problem ;) anyone else have any ideas?
wdarkk 04-04-04, 01:27 AM	If you're a Wizard (I think I remember that), I'd recommend becoming 21st level and grabbing Epic Spellcasting, so that you could have a very nifty bargaining chip. Or, you could planar bind in a ton of interesting things. Makes for a much more interesting army.
Arakano 04-04-04, 11:20 AM	Throw his tea in the harbor. :D
elf killer 32 04-04-04, 01:21 PM	Storm his own personal bastille! If your going to start a revolution, its allways good to have allies, especially ones with a bone to pick with this empire.:D
Arakano 04-04-04, 04:33 PM	Yes... and don´t forget to destroy his planet-size weapon of mass destruction! May the Force(tm) be with you! :D Fun aside, no empire is likely to accept a declaration of independence from one of its provinces without a fight. So you better hit fast and hard. :smirk:
RobTzu 04-04-04, 06:08 PM	You will not win in force of arms... yet. You first need allies, perhaps other dukes willing to succeed. Even if they form their own States. Other options is to spread rumours harming the empire, look for outside help i.e; other empires. Assassinations before your succesion is also advisable. Once you have weakened the empire then strike.
FriendoftheDork 04-04-04, 07:42 PM	ehm.. I got the impression that he wanted to seccede without blodshed.. Ok, first of all, if you're really an epic wizard, or even just the most powerful wizard in the empire, it would not be that hard to persuade the emperor to recognize your dukedom's independance. This should be done by negotating with the emperor in private, not by banging on his gates with your 650 men behind you. Those men are obviouisly not your true power. You could offer him something in exchange for independence, such as an alliance (you helping the empire with your magic). BTW why do you want to break away from the empire? In any case, rebellion will cause blodshed, and will require alot of backing from other lords to succeed.
Heron_Marked_Blade 04-04-04, 09:44 PM	Enchantment school. Charm person.
Aurotuli 04-04-04, 09:59 PM	We need more info. What are your class levels? What forces can he call upon immediately (standing armies)? What are his likely reserves and how long does it take to marshal them? What type of casters work for him? (I assume at least 1 wiz and 1 clr that can each cast 8th or 9th level spells.) Why do you wish to break away (wish to retain / use resources without needing his approval, avoiding becoming involved in a likely future conflict between the Empire and a land bordering your own, wish to become a power in the world, the emperer is going insane / evil, etc)? How large is the empire (in terms of land, population, resources, etc)? Where are you in relation to it (deep within its heartlands, on the frontier, between it and its enemy, etc)? Who are its allies and what are their strengths / weaknesses and positions (both diplomatic and geographic)? Who are its enemies (and their str / wknesses / etc)? Can any of its allies &/or enemies be conviced to support you? Can any major NPCs trusted by the emperer be conviced to support your cause before him (the better to leave peaceably)? If you leave, do you intend to become an enemy of the empire, a neutral party, or an ally? Is your dukedom capable of self-support or is it dependent on certain other lands for significant resources (iron, food, wood, money, workers, etc)? Is so, what are your relations with them and what are their relations with the empire? Needless to say, we need more info before we can seriously answer your question. A list of resources / facts regarding your dukedom, the empire, majoy potential allies / enemies of each would be nice. This should include resources such as wealth, levels of NPCs (3 wiz 9, 1 wiz 14, etc), resources (wood, gold, stone, etc), population, size, distances (how long does it take to travel from your lands to the nearest major settlement of the empire / the capital of the empire / etc). Thank you.
Duke Viper 04-04-04, 10:38 PM	Ok sorry your right you need more info. The empire is one of three on the continent, and it is the most powerful one. it is allies with the other 2 but one of those two I helped topple and kill its emporer, so it is effectively neutralized. This empire is known for its elite group which to get in you have to kill are dragon alone. and not a small dragon mind you. I am lvl 2 rogue, lvl 5 assassin, and lvl 13 druid. NO WIZARD. I want to break away because I want power, simple as that, and I dont like taking orders and giving away my money to anyone, even an emporer. I am evil, all I want is power and money. If i do break away I will not be hostil to anyone. of course, only until I need more power and money. I do have some good bargaining chips. I did help the emporer defend his capital city, from an invadeing force, a force that was from a being that wants to tak over the world and doesnt care if he has to kill every living and non living thing do rule it. In fact my character is very friendly with the emporer. they are sort of friends, though not quite. The emporer is also a very reasonable man. I do not want to shed unneccesary blood, because those people that would die, could be useful to making me money and gaining me power, and protecting me. if there is anything else you want to know please tell me I'll be happy to answer.
Aurotuli 04-04-04, 11:30 PM	I want to break away because I want power, simple as that, and I dont like taking orders and giving away my money to anyone, even an emporer. I am evil, all I want is power and money. Hmm... Alright. Let me take this apart. I want to break away because I want power, simple as that That is understandable. You can better achieve your purposes / ends with the power resting solely within your own hands. There are ways to have power without breaking off entirely. Perhaps become semi-autonomous. (He may not agree to this as it is arguably forever out of his empire.) Or better yet, have yourself named the Vice Roy. Basically you are then the king of the region while the emperer is not physically there. If he is there, then you are second in command. Basically this is the same as current, but you have a higher title. A prince / king from a neighboring province in the empire no longer out ranks you should they visit your dukedom. You are basically only outranked by the emperer. He may agree to this, but only so long as there is little chance of you ever seeking his throne / position. There may also be some political issues to consider (such as what the other dukes / princes / etc will think of this). I dont like taking orders and giving away my money to anyone, even an emporer. Also understandable, especially for an evil character (as they tend to be more selfish). Harder to deal with, however. How often do you receive orders? How often do they either 1) force you to stop doing what you are doing (either as an order to stop, or as an order to do something which takes time and effort better spent (in your opinion) on your own self-appointed tasks), or 2) interfere with you in other ways (an order to come to the capital or to travel to another province, etc). Perhaps all you really need to do is convice him that there is some important (time consuming) task in your dukedom that will likely prevent much (if not most) future travel from your dukedom. Or that requires such time and effort that you cannot waste time on lesser issues - such as his typical 'minor' orders. Be very careful how you tell the emperer this. Money, as an issue, is addressed below. I am evil, all I want is power and money. I can understand the Evil and the Power-Hunger, but why the urge for money? Your main class is Druid, and you are high enough that (except for magic item creation and perhaps paying off henchmen) you can survive entirely without it. Goodberries or very simple Survival checks get you your food for the day. Wild shape and magic for combat (not taking into consideration your several levels of assassin, of course). Et cetera. Is there a background reason for the money- hunger? Or a setting region (need to pay others off, or need to pay for projects you have occuring in your dukedom, etc?) All in all, I see your best bet as convincing the Emperer that the time delay in the chain of command between your realm and his capital is too great for efficiency. Convince him to make you a semi- autonomous Vice Roy. With your increased freedom help make your realm self- sufficient while subtly looking for allies to support you if push comes to shove. That should gain you a few years, at least. Later, take advantage of a seeming major situation to convince (or try to convince) the emperer that it is cruicial that you be allowed to rule undisturbed. Suggest that in the future - once the difficult time has passed - that you would return to the fold of the Empire. Do not promise, just make it sound like you are stating fact rather than a suggestion. Stress that you would remain an ally to him during this troubled time - as you have in times past. If he seems reluctant, stress both the importance of the situation and the fact that he is fully strong enough* to overpower you and easily retake your kingdom should your independence become a problem for him. *(whether this is true or not) If all else fails, simply tell him (after all of the above) that there is no more time to argue. Action MUST be taken swiftly to prevent disaster! Return post- haste to your kingdom and stop sending tribute / taxes - as if the emperer had agreed (whether he has or not). If you have chosen the moment right, it will not be worth the effort it would take to recapture your kingdom at this time, and you can use the few years you have before he is able to attempt it to 1) build up your defenses, 2) secretly seek out allies, and 3) get back in his good graces (although always change the subject if it comes to when your land will rejoin the empire). Eventually he'll catch on, but by then - if you have prepared well, you will be so well fortified against invasion that (even if he had the ability before to take your land back) he now has little hope of (easily) taking your dukedom back into the fold. He simply has to accept your position as an independent ally rather than waste his forces on a less than certain attempt to reclaim your lands. There is much that can go wrong in this (I do not know enough to give more than vague and general advice) but if played right and timed right you can do it - and keep him as an ally / friend as well (although he will ever be more cautious and suspitious of you, for many many years to come).
Lanoitakude 04-05-04, 11:52 PM	Kill the emperor, and take his place as. That's all I gatta say 'bout that...
feng the barbarian 04-12-04, 06:23 PM	i would charge right though the gates with your sword of kas kill him take the throne, and rule though fear. if anyone gets in your way blast them with that sword!!
feng the barbarian 04-12-04, 06:24 PM	i would charge right though the gates with your sword of kas kill him take the throne, and rule though fear. if anyone gets in your way blast them with that sword!! and i dont think the sword would reject any of those ideas because it is evil
Duke Viper 04-12-04, 06:49 PM	Well since I am a druid, I cannot weild weapons such as The Sword of Kas, in combat. I mean i can hold onto it, I just cant swing it. But I have convinced him to let me be a Vice-Roy, so thats settled. I also got the land of one of my partyy members, as long as he could be the general in my army. And an NPC baron, I am going to rid my self of, so that I have access to the coast. My power, and influence, is growing throughout the empire, it is only a matter of time before things are in my favor. Besides, since I let my assassins guild reside on my pproperty, they owe me a couple of favors. Same with a druid tribe/settlement that lives near by my keep. Soon enough, i will have alot of people who all owe me favors, and one day I will call upon them to use those favors, and when that day comes I will be emporer. Thanks for all the suggestions. I appreciate it.
Eric3_14159 04-12-04, 07:59 PM	<Warcraft> Walk into his thrown room, holding your sword. Walk right up to the emperor. When he asks what you are doing, say "Succeding you" and kill him with your sword. Now, ignore your druid levels and begin advancing in Wizard (Nercomancer) </Warcraft>
feng the barbarian 04-12-04, 08:07 PM	feng agree with Eric3_14159 smash poor emporer with sword lose druid powers for 24 hours big deal. arcane magic is alot cooler than nature stuff
Duke Viper 04-12-04, 09:33 PM	With all due respect, and tons offence, are you guys retarded?!?!?!:uh-huh: I mean seriously are your dumb?:looloo: Why would I give up my abilities to Wildshape, just for a few wizard spells? I mean personally, I get tons of use out of stone shape, and woodshape, I have 4 treants that agreed to guarding my keep. I mean seriously. I can fuggin talk to anything, and I can shapechange into anything. Why would I want to start anew with wizard spells? Seriously, think before you open your mouth next time. :teach: people like you really :censored::censored::censored::censored: people like me off, I mean not everyone who playes D&D wants to be a fighter, or a wizard.:banghead:
Eric3_14159 04-12-04, 10:16 PM	I'm sorry I offended you and your Druid. It's just that this thread made me think of a scene in a computer game where someone walks up to the king with an evil sword and kills him then and there.
Duke Viper 04-13-04, 04:22 PM	Its ok, it wasnt just you, it was the moron speaking in thrid person, saying arcane magic is much better.