Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Z3phyr 09-09-05, 10:43 PM	In my personal opinion, too much flying in a campaign lowers the fun level, because so many combat styles dont work, and it all feels a bit too much dbz-ish. I understand that some creatures should be able to fly and such, and they provide interesting combat challenges, but my DM has been throwing a good amount of flyers at us, and I need ways to mess with them. I am a monk, and I specialize in spring attacking with stunning fist, but, that is only useful when I am the ground. I have limited archery potential, and 3/day winged boots. These can work and all, but at times, I need better ways to deal with flyers. I dont like going aerial with my monk unless I have to, because my main strategy of spring attacking is useless, and up in the air there is no place to hide/sneak, so unless i am invisible they can see me coming almost no matter what. Some of the airborn enemies I fight are naturally flying creatures (things with wings, etc), spellcasters that cast fly on themselves, and archers/melee people that have some type of equipment that allows them to fly a lot. SO, does anyone have any suggestions on how to bring a flyer down? Any suggestions on how to bring an aerial creature to the ground, or to help my monk deal with these aerial threats in the air (I'd rather bring them down, personally). For a specific example, I am having a bit problem with a re-occuring enemy in our campaign. He is some type of archer that flies in the air and hits us from 150+ feet in the air.
feartheinvinceblehamster 09-09-05, 11:11 PM	hire like 300 mercenaries. equip each one of them with a bow. then hire like 5 5th level wizards and equip them with wands of lightning bolt. you take the zen archery feat and get a nonmagical longbow. scream "BARRAGE BALLOON!" and have the flyers get nailed with 5 lightning bolts and 302 arrows. that's gonna leave a mark. or, see if you can get seven league boots. though technically not in the core rules, they appear in fantasy everywhere. get a ring of feather fall, then step 7 leagues into the air and rain death with a magic sling, all the while floating lazily down. Or better yet, do you have abundant step? well it duplicates dimension door, so you can take like a 100 pound rock into the air with you and drop it. that's good too. then activatavate your winged boots and be happy.
Z3phyr 09-09-05, 11:35 PM	Half of that post I obviously couldnt use. The only reasonable answer there to me is to use abundant step to drop something on him, but I think he would EASILY make the reflex save.
Mirikon 09-10-05, 01:19 AM	Fliers are challenging because the only ones who are relatively unaffected by them are the archery types and the mages. They are also a favorite of people who are trying to stop the monk that consistently spoils the DM's plans. My advice? keep a bow on hand, and find cover.
Evil Glowstick 09-10-05, 01:36 AM	Leap of the clouds.....Grapple :D Realy though, try to come up from under and behind them. Flying peoples blind spot. Also use the sun to fly away into after your spring attack.If you stun a creature that needs to flap their wings. They can't flap them anymore (being stunned n all) so they fall down. Now they are stunned, on the ground and injured from fall damage. If you are not as much as a thret as the other chars, then you can maby faid away while still on the ground and get into the position you want. For casters you fight, have your caster use dispell magic on them. That'll bring em down to your level. Get a bola and throw it at a creatures wings insted of their legs.Thats about all I got for now. Hope it helps.
Sapp 09-10-05, 03:46 AM	Air Walk is better for a monk than fly. Fly doesn't factor in your monk's speed bonus. Air walk would. Put a permanency on that.
Raxmei 09-10-05, 03:50 AM	If you can get them within 50 or 100 (with far shot) feet you can try a tanglefoot bag. To survive this specific guy get a tower shield. Put it over your head for total cover from that direction. He'll have to come down to the ground if he wants to hurt you. Don't waste a feat on proficiency, you can do this without it and you'll be dropping it when you start fighting anyway. That's all I can think of without using magic. If you happen to have a 9th level Druid or Cleric with Air domain handy then Control Wind works.
Darksoupgod 09-10-05, 04:16 AM	Try Undeniable Gravity from the Minatures Handbook. It forces any creature that fails a will save to quickly (and harmlessy) glide to the ground. It works on any type of flight, to.
psionichamster 09-10-05, 08:04 AM	use your abundant step to get to his level, grapple and get that bow away from him. heck, even getting into melee range would be good....he can't use that bow for AoO's, so a disarm means he either tries to hold onto it (preferably after you grapple him, so he has another choice coming up) or you get it if you're grappled, he's got to break free (maybe not so hard, but a flying archer type is unlikely to have a super grapple mod, and potions of enlarge are only 250 gp) or risk you taking his bow away (with bonuses for grappling) if he wants to take any of his AoO's on you for these actions, he's got to drop his bow and effectively disarm himself again. alternatively, find out what is enabling him to fly (wings? boots? spell?) and neutralize that...tanglebags on wing-flyers, dispelling his spells, disarming him of flight mag. items. flying archer of doom? sounds like a tough fight...where are your caster friends w/ their will save or die spells? namaste' the hamster
feartheinvinceblehamster 09-10-05, 09:11 AM	sorry about that, it's hard to tell how much you can afford(300 mercenaries would be about 100 gp for one day of service) lol, kinda funny your named after a windstorm and need help getting flyers down. :cool:
Z3phyr 09-10-05, 11:29 AM	First off, the idea of using air walk is a really good one for my monk. I didnt even think of that spell -_-`. I have a question regarding another post. If it takes a standard action to abundant step, and a standard action to grapple, I dont see how I could do this in 1 round. And by the next time my round comes around, I would be falling well below the flyer (unless of course I somehow am able to air walk or fly in some way). But, if even if I did have the ability to stay up there with an air walk or something, because it would take me a standard action to abundant step and a standard action to grapple him next round, he would be able to get away from me before I could initiate a grapple, or am I missing something? Also, since air walk is like walking, would i be able to spring attack while using air walk?
Sapp 09-10-05, 12:30 PM	Also, since air walk is like walking, would i be able to spring attack while using air walk? I believe so. The only problem with air walking is that "walking upwards" is like walking up a hill. You can't "walk" directly upwards. To reach something directly above you you'd have to run in a smiral upwards. It's twice as slow as just walking towards something in front of you, but remember that fly is basically the same. You ascend at half speed, you descend at double speed. Air Walk is no different. You'd be ascending at about 71% speed by walking at angles of 45 degrees (or pi/4 radians)... actually, that's actually better than flight.
feartheinvinceblehamster 09-10-05, 05:04 PM	about it feeling dbzish,atleast no one(i hope) has said: EL....DER.....ITCH....BLAST!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!
Algorithm_X 09-10-05, 06:40 PM	Merciful Sling total cost 8300gp. I mean you are a monk, use what you know. If your party has a 5th level cleric with Create Magic arms and armor it would only cost 4300gp for him to enchant it. The thing about flying is once you go unconscious you fall, becoming easy prey for coup de grace to those earth bound foes. Also this give you the ability to incapacitate at range, a good thing for a party that has compunction against killing innocents (ie Morally Neutral or Good). Knocking it unconscious definitely counts as defeating it in terms of gaining xp. Also it doesn't tarnish the hides of magical beasts or small dragon that could fetch a good price on the right market, a quick clean coup de grace makes it as neat as if it was from a slaughter house. The nice thing about the sling is being able to carry bullets of Silver or Cold Iron, types of damage reduction not naturally built into the monk class. What better use of your share of the treasure do you have?
Z3phyr 09-10-05, 07:56 PM	Slings have a range of 50, which is good against some flyers. Many flyers, including the flying archer I wrote about, shoot from WAY above that. The only way I could hit it is to fly up there and shoot it, but as long as I'm up there with air walk or something I might as well just forget the sling altogether and get in close to go monk on him. I think so far Air Walk was the best solution.
tharivol266 09-11-05, 10:17 PM	u forget. thrown weapons have max ranges of five incriments but other ranged weapons have max range of 10 incriments. this means u could hit him up to 500 feet away.
Vaelan 09-12-05, 01:06 AM	Undeniable Gravity. As he falls, move into position to surround him. When he touches the ground, beat him into it. Or fly after him and disarm his bow. If you use a monk weapon such as a quarterstaff or sai, it falls to the ground. If you use your bare hands, you are now carrying his bow. If you disarm the item that allows him to fly...
Gauze Fireforge 09-12-05, 01:33 AM	If you can, check out Draconimicon and the spell "earth bind" Essentially a flyer is screwed with this spell targeting an enemy (if I remember correctly). Essentially on a failed save from this spell (will I believe) the target plumets to the ground or if they pass, they are affected by a feather fall and sink to the ground, unable to fly. The druid in my campaign used this on some nasties, damn well crippled them and the fighters just came in a mopped em up easy as pie.
solbergb 09-12-05, 12:56 PM	If you are a spring attacking monk from a style standpoint, air walk is your solution. Save the flight for the underwater fights :) You should have enough balance to move full speed up slopes, so the need to go up at an angle shouldn't matter much. As for bringing them down...your arcanist or divine caster might be able to help. Most fliers fall if stunned or dazed (see doomtide, shadow binding, sound burst, tasha's laughter, etc). A sculpted "cylendrical" gust of wind can knock down a flier if they blow fort save, and MH has some spells that suppress flight. Dispel magic sometimes helps, or an entangling spell or even vision disrupting cloud (half speed if you can't see) on a clumsy flier (tanglefoot bag on size large or smaller clumsy fliers). From a mundane standpoint, retreating indoors or into some other close quarters situation can really help.
Doopliss 09-12-05, 02:04 PM	If they have ranged attacks I can't really help you, but readying actions does wonders if they melee.
Red_Ninja 09-28-05, 01:55 PM	-telekenisis (or similar spell) to YANK AWAY BOW -use your deflect arrows (or grab arrows) feat to render his attacks useless -summon monster (stirges) x40 -use a lasso, then you can reel him in.... -protection from normal/magical missiles -cast "warp wood" on bow/arrows -spellcasters can use metamagic feats to increase range of charm monster/ -hold monster -cast web -reverse gravity -call lightning -summon air elemental (maybe via summon monster?) -mirror image (via magic item or spell) makes you several targets, not one... -for those with feathery wings...use fire -BALISTA HARPOON!!!! this can be great fun with masterwork rope and a +5 longspear!!!!! -polymorph other (flyer = mentally challenged pony) -stay inside- he'll have to come to a window or door (or he'll bomb you with fireballs and beads of force...) or shoot you through the roof.... -adventure in your plentiful and typical DUNGEONS...? OR -use your monk as the template for a huge clone army, then continue dying, eventually the flyer will time/ run out of magic/ run out of ammo, and land, then all 5000000 of you can avenge the deaths of your clone brothers!
wonlee76 09-28-05, 02:20 PM	Just about every melee class has some proficiency with a range weapon. Sure, you may want to specialize in being a melee attacker but nothing is stopping you from carrying a range weapon in case of emergencies. Light crossbow or sling would be a useful item to have. If you want ititerative attacks, get the quick reload feat. And the best part about it is you can still wield/ready the crossbow in hand and jump around kicking with your feet for your unarmed strikes. No need to drop the weapon at all. Any other melee type, keep a shortbow/longbow handy. It may not be your favorite weapon but it could be your only weapon that will be effective.
Demonfey 09-28-05, 02:50 PM	Make the fight happen in a place of your choosing. If they have wings, head towards any nearby cover, such as a nearby forest or narrow alley. Or, if you can spot them first, get nets and set up a trap, with one person acting as a decoy and a few getting above the fliers and preparing to drop the nets. A net to the wings would severely limit flight ability, due to an inability to really use them that effectively. If all else fails, take it to them, and remember: fireballs don't have to hit something to go off... :devil: