Building a Good Strong hold [Archive] - Wizards Community

Building a Good Strong hold [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Losoyo19
10-04-06, 12:35 AM Hey,

Our DM has decided to start an interesting high level campaign and has given us the starting gold for level 15.. We have decided to pool some of our gold and that would come to about 230,000 - We want to come up with a decent strong hold that would be placed near a pretty populated community. I was just curious if anyone had any suggestions on what they would put together with those type of funds.
pyropetey9
10-04-06, 04:50 AM is anyone taking Leadership? if so, you'll need to provide quarters to cohort(s) and possibly to followers as well.

what is the cost of real estate in such an area in this world? your DM should be able to come up with a reasonable estimate.

what features would everyone in the group want? Library? combat training facilities? forge? woodshop? stables? you need to sit down with the other players and find a way to incorporate everyone's needs and wants into a finished product.

i would suggest making a list of requirements for the stronghold, distributing a copy to everyone involved, and individually coming up with concepts for the stronghold. put it all down on paper, including sketches of floorplans, so everyone can really visualize each idea, and then you can all work out a finished product.
mike_beavers
10-04-06, 10:43 AM stronghold builders guide is a good starting place for building structures. Still available, I got a copy through amazon
Cifer
10-04-06, 12:36 PM One of you might want to take the feat Landlord from the stronghold builder's guide. It gives you a lot of money for stronghold construction purposes without draining your ressources in other regions.
JungeonJeff
10-04-06, 02:15 PM Are you going to supervise the actual construction? -if so, i seem to remember a harp in the DMG that makes the process ALOT easier.

And remember, employ Warforged workers! -24hour working, no meals, water, or rest :)
Cifer
10-04-06, 10:05 PM And remember, employ Warforged workers! -24hour working, no meals, water, or rest
And the problem that they most probably know how good they are. Unless you're in Thrane or another place where they are still kept as slaves, hiring them is going to be expensive.
Surgo
10-04-06, 10:13 PM The best way to build a good stronghold is to not do it at all. Castles stopped being good defensive positions for a good reason.
Cifer
10-04-06, 10:36 PM Castles stopped being good defensive positions for a good reason.
Well... that reason was artillery coming up. If you don't make enemies of high-level mages, this development is not paralleled in D&D.
TheDarkLord
10-04-06, 10:53 PM Large Fortified Underground Tunnel complexes similar to the ones on Iwo Gima. Hide everything important underground and use guerilla tactics to eat and chip away at the enemy. Grow an edible fungus and go to war!
User5127
10-04-06, 11:14 PM i used strong hold builders guide and went all out for my super strong hold, max speed and manuverability and transportation plus an insane amount of magical effects and crazy materials used in the construction. all in all it cost me i believe 3 million gp? or 40 million, i can't remember right now. lol
Losoyo19
10-05-06, 12:38 AM I'll definetly take a look in it and see what I can do, It seemed a little pricy - 280,000 when I first looked at the book, didn't seem to go a long way.. It's to fit four players, I will definetly do more research, Thanks for your feed back!
Cifer
10-05-06, 08:25 AM @Losoyo
It's actually not that hard - I got our party plus followers a nice dungeon for the base 25k. Of course it's mostly basic rooms at that point, but with ten times the amount you get a lot more stuff.
The trick is that hewn stone walls are free in a dungeon...
elondir
10-05-06, 09:20 AM Have everyone take the Landlord feat. You are allowed to pool your funds and don't forget the one-for-one match of gp spent on it. So if you have 200,000 gp funds and 200,000 gp to spend, you actually have 600,000 gp to spend. With four characters, that's 2,400,000 gp. That goes a long way unless you totally load up with mobility and wondrous architecture.

Make most of it underground so your hewn stone walls are free. I made a three-floor underground complex for 500,000, and that's without the fabricate spell (which, along with move earth and disintegrate is your friend).

Also, if you're going epic (15th sounds like you might before long), ask your DM if you guys can get access to the Genesis spell in the ELH (also in the EpicSpells.rtf SRD). It's an often-overlooked spell because it's kind of hidden away in the ELH and in the SRD. Demiplanes make good locations for strongholds. If your DM allows it (RaW allows it), make the bedrock pure diamond or platinum and the soil very fertile. Make a few golems for mining, and cast an updated epic spell version of Prolific Forestation from Dragon Kings or just hire a druid to import flora and fauna. If I calculated correctly, a 180-ft radius demiplane made of platinum is worth around a trillion trillion gp. With ten iron golems mining 24/7, you should rake in a few million gp per month. The best thing about it is, every 180 days you can cast it again and add another 180 feet to the radius of your demiplane. And don't forget security! Only the PCs, their cohorts, followers, and trusted hirelings should be allowed to enter and leave the demiplane.
2nd Ed Paladin
10-05-06, 10:06 AM Just remember that you need to have defense against scrying and teleporting. If a BBEG knows where you live than you can be subject to the "Scry and fry" strategy normally employed by adventureres.

A permananent Mage's Private Sanctum is good against scrying.

Dimensional Lock is good spell but cannot be made permanent. Consider crafting magic wonderous items that have a dimensional lock in key areas in your stronghold. One of those items would cost 240,000 though.

Permanent Alarm spells would also be a good idea.
Cifer
10-05-06, 11:58 AM Just remember that you need to have defense against scrying and teleporting. If a BBEG knows where you live than you can be subject to the "Scry and fry" strategy normally employed by adventureres.

A permananent Mage's Private Sanctum is good against scrying.

Dimensional Lock is good spell but cannot be made permanent. Consider crafting magic wonderous items that have a dimensional lock in key areas in your stronghold. One of those items would cost 240,000 though.

Permanent Alarm spells would also be a good idea.
Well, Inscriptions of vacancy block the scrying part for 22,500 GP per Stronghold space.
Tempest Stormwind
10-05-06, 01:06 PM 1) Read the Stronghold Builder's Guide.
2) Read it again. You'll need a GOOD grasp of its rules.
3) Take Landlord, and Leadership, and have the cohort take Landlord.
4) Look into Mercantile Background. Your cohort should be an artificer, and should look into the Artisan feats (the three in Eberron plus Magic Artisan from PGtF, if it's allowed).
5) I don't care what else you buy; you want a way of casting Wall of Stone for free and a Lyre of Building. The Fabricate spell can negate the need for workers in certain situations as well.
6) Abandon your preconceptions about what a stronghold looks like, especially since the D&D world means a historical castle falls to any group with 5th level wizards.

Bask in the glory of your ultimate stronghold. (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=543260)

(Yes, those are extremes. But they give you an example of what can actually be done with the Stronghold Builder's Guide.)
Amurmur_In_The_Shadows
10-07-06, 08:24 PM I found a spreadsheet that does all the calculations for the Stronghold Builder's Guide Here (http://www.dndadventure.com/dnda_dm_resources.html)

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Losoyo19 10-04-06, 12:35 AM	Hey, Our DM has decided to start an interesting high level campaign and has given us the starting gold for level 15.. We have decided to pool some of our gold and that would come to about 230,000 - We want to come up with a decent strong hold that would be placed near a pretty populated community. I was just curious if anyone had any suggestions on what they would put together with those type of funds.
pyropetey9 10-04-06, 04:50 AM	is anyone taking Leadership? if so, you'll need to provide quarters to cohort(s) and possibly to followers as well. what is the cost of real estate in such an area in this world? your DM should be able to come up with a reasonable estimate. what features would everyone in the group want? Library? combat training facilities? forge? woodshop? stables? you need to sit down with the other players and find a way to incorporate everyone's needs and wants into a finished product. i would suggest making a list of requirements for the stronghold, distributing a copy to everyone involved, and individually coming up with concepts for the stronghold. put it all down on paper, including sketches of floorplans, so everyone can really visualize each idea, and then you can all work out a finished product.
mike_beavers 10-04-06, 10:43 AM	stronghold builders guide is a good starting place for building structures. Still available, I got a copy through amazon
Cifer 10-04-06, 12:36 PM	One of you might want to take the feat Landlord from the stronghold builder's guide. It gives you a lot of money for stronghold construction purposes without draining your ressources in other regions.
JungeonJeff 10-04-06, 02:15 PM	Are you going to supervise the actual construction? -if so, i seem to remember a harp in the DMG that makes the process ALOT easier. And remember, employ Warforged workers! -24hour working, no meals, water, or rest :)
Cifer 10-04-06, 10:05 PM	And remember, employ Warforged workers! -24hour working, no meals, water, or rest And the problem that they most probably know how good they are. Unless you're in Thrane or another place where they are still kept as slaves, hiring them is going to be expensive.
Surgo 10-04-06, 10:13 PM	The best way to build a good stronghold is to not do it at all. Castles stopped being good defensive positions for a good reason.
Cifer 10-04-06, 10:36 PM	Castles stopped being good defensive positions for a good reason. Well... that reason was artillery coming up. If you don't make enemies of high-level mages, this development is not paralleled in D&D.
TheDarkLord 10-04-06, 10:53 PM	Large Fortified Underground Tunnel complexes similar to the ones on Iwo Gima. Hide everything important underground and use guerilla tactics to eat and chip away at the enemy. Grow an edible fungus and go to war!
User5127 10-04-06, 11:14 PM	i used strong hold builders guide and went all out for my super strong hold, max speed and manuverability and transportation plus an insane amount of magical effects and crazy materials used in the construction. all in all it cost me i believe 3 million gp? or 40 million, i can't remember right now. lol
Losoyo19 10-05-06, 12:38 AM	I'll definetly take a look in it and see what I can do, It seemed a little pricy - 280,000 when I first looked at the book, didn't seem to go a long way.. It's to fit four players, I will definetly do more research, Thanks for your feed back!
Cifer 10-05-06, 08:25 AM	@Losoyo It's actually not that hard - I got our party plus followers a nice dungeon for the base 25k. Of course it's mostly basic rooms at that point, but with ten times the amount you get a lot more stuff. The trick is that hewn stone walls are free in a dungeon...
elondir 10-05-06, 09:20 AM	Have everyone take the Landlord feat. You are allowed to pool your funds and don't forget the one-for-one match of gp spent on it. So if you have 200,000 gp funds and 200,000 gp to spend, you actually have 600,000 gp to spend. With four characters, that's 2,400,000 gp. That goes a long way unless you totally load up with mobility and wondrous architecture. Make most of it underground so your hewn stone walls are free. I made a three-floor underground complex for 500,000, and that's without the fabricate spell (which, along with move earth and disintegrate is your friend). Also, if you're going epic (15th sounds like you might before long), ask your DM if you guys can get access to the Genesis spell in the ELH (also in the EpicSpells.rtf SRD). It's an often-overlooked spell because it's kind of hidden away in the ELH and in the SRD. Demiplanes make good locations for strongholds. If your DM allows it (RaW allows it), make the bedrock pure diamond or platinum and the soil very fertile. Make a few golems for mining, and cast an updated epic spell version of Prolific Forestation from Dragon Kings or just hire a druid to import flora and fauna. If I calculated correctly, a 180-ft radius demiplane made of platinum is worth around a trillion trillion gp. With ten iron golems mining 24/7, you should rake in a few million gp per month. The best thing about it is, every 180 days you can cast it again and add another 180 feet to the radius of your demiplane. And don't forget security! Only the PCs, their cohorts, followers, and trusted hirelings should be allowed to enter and leave the demiplane.
2nd Ed Paladin 10-05-06, 10:06 AM	Just remember that you need to have defense against scrying and teleporting. If a BBEG knows where you live than you can be subject to the "Scry and fry" strategy normally employed by adventureres. A permananent Mage's Private Sanctum is good against scrying. Dimensional Lock is good spell but cannot be made permanent. Consider crafting magic wonderous items that have a dimensional lock in key areas in your stronghold. One of those items would cost 240,000 though. Permanent Alarm spells would also be a good idea.
Cifer 10-05-06, 11:58 AM	Just remember that you need to have defense against scrying and teleporting. If a BBEG knows where you live than you can be subject to the "Scry and fry" strategy normally employed by adventureres. A permananent Mage's Private Sanctum is good against scrying. Dimensional Lock is good spell but cannot be made permanent. Consider crafting magic wonderous items that have a dimensional lock in key areas in your stronghold. One of those items would cost 240,000 though. Permanent Alarm spells would also be a good idea. Well, Inscriptions of vacancy block the scrying part for 22,500 GP per Stronghold space.
Tempest Stormwind 10-05-06, 01:06 PM	1) Read the Stronghold Builder's Guide. 2) Read it again. You'll need a GOOD grasp of its rules. 3) Take Landlord, and Leadership, and have the cohort take Landlord. 4) Look into Mercantile Background. Your cohort should be an artificer, and should look into the Artisan feats (the three in Eberron plus Magic Artisan from PGtF, if it's allowed). 5) I don't care what else you buy; you want a way of casting Wall of Stone for free and a Lyre of Building. The Fabricate spell can negate the need for workers in certain situations as well. 6) Abandon your preconceptions about what a stronghold looks like, especially since the D&D world means a historical castle falls to any group with 5th level wizards. Bask in the glory of your ultimate stronghold. (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=543260) (Yes, those are extremes. But they give you an example of what can actually be done with the Stronghold Builder's Guide.)
Amurmur_In_The_Shadows 10-07-06, 08:24 PM	I found a spreadsheet that does all the calculations for the Stronghold Builder's Guide Here (http://www.dndadventure.com/dnda_dm_resources.html)