Building a stronghold - What kind would you choose? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Building a stronghold - What kind would you choose? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Sareld
10-30-06, 11:10 AM My swashbuckling bard have operated as a rouge for quite some time now (has rouge abilities from PrCs), and as I have just acuired the leadership feat I am planning to make him the head of a small thieves guild. For this thieves guild I need to have a base of operations, so that my 60-70 followers has a place to hide themselves, hide their loot, sell loot, regroup and organize, but I am still in doubt of what kind of stronghold to take. Here is my ideas so far:

A large three masted ship in the harbor:
Pros:
- My thieves will be able to sneak in and out of the ship relatively easy at night.
- I can sail away if I get in trouble.
- I will have plenty of storage space.
- I can move from port to port, so I can avoid to exhaust the rescourses of the cities I operate in.
Cons:
- The ships wooden construction makes it vulnerable to arson by rivalling thieves guilds.
- The ship can be sunk or sabotaged to do so in open water.

A secret dungeon connected to the sewers:
Pros:
- Hard to find, easy to defend if attacked.
- The sewers connect it to most parts of the city, making it easy to get
around with equipment and loot.
- Easy to protect against divinations with lead.
Cons:
- Smells bad.
- If found, relocating my base of operations will be hard and expensive.

A pocket dimension:
Pros:
- Easy to get around.. portals can be set up everywhere.
- Very hard to attack.
- Easy to relocate if found, as I dont need to move anything but a portal.
- Protected from divinations.
Cons:
- Extermely hard to obtain (how do you do that without taking 10 awful levels of that planar wizard class from 'manual of the planes'?)
- Expensive.

A fortress outside of town:
Pros:
- Very easy to defend.
- Hard to approach wihout getting seen.
Cons:
- Very obivous.. though it can be hidden with illusions.
- My strength will be easy to estimate, making it easy to send an assault force of the right size to destroy me.
- Enemies can lay siege on me.

I really need some inspiration here... What would you choose yourself? And how have you build up your successful strongholds for the diffrent classes?
Toptomcat
10-30-06, 11:23 AM A pocket dimension:
Pros:
- Easy to get around.. portals can be set up everywhere.
- Very hard to attack.
- Easy to relocate if found, as I dont need to move anything but a portal.
- Protected from divinations.
Cons:
- Extermely hard to obtain (how do you do that without taking 10 awful levels of that planar wizard class from 'manual of the planes'?)
- Expensive.

Buy a big Bag of Holding and toss in a Bottle of Air to keep the air from going stale. Problem solved.
JellyPooga
10-30-06, 11:44 AM How about a secret underground fortress built around a ship in an underground lake, accessable only via a pocket plane that's connected to the sewers that lead out of town?

That's what I'd have as my stronghold anyway...

Seriously though, I have never had a stronghold in a game of D&D (except Baldurs Gate 2), but if I were to get one, I'd go with my heart rather than my head. you seem to have thought this through fairly thouroughly, so base it on what you think your character would prefer asthetically. Is he a sailor/piratey type? go for the ship. Is he more sneaky and black-market underworld? go for the sewers. Is he showy and ostentatious? go for the fortress. Does he have some powerful mage friends or plan on having them as 'customers'? Go with pocket plane.
Iry
10-30-06, 12:03 PM The Ship is probably your best bet because it is the only one of the above that not only can be used for extensive plot involvement but can also go along on adventures with you! It's mere existence opens up high seas adventures, the ability to sail upstreams and gain rapid transportation, as well as even a flying airship in the distant future if you're into that kind of thing.
Tempest Stormwind
10-30-06, 01:51 PM Ship.

But don't build one just yet. Wait till level 9 and have both yourself and the cohort take Landlord. Pool your funds and build the Armada of the Gods (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=381080). (Note: It IS possible to assemble these ships on the budget mentioned, although it requires a fair bit of planning.)
capeMyrmidon
10-30-06, 07:27 PM the boats a fine one, what if you bought a tavern with a trap down to the sewers. hide loot/people in the kegs big, dark easy to find contacts in.
Toloran
10-30-06, 09:21 PM Find a small to medium sized costal town that has some sea cliffs near by. Make an inn there and build an underground tunnel that leads to a cave hidden the the cliffs. Then, go with the boat idea. It gives you the best of underground fortress and boat ideas :D
Tiefling_Warlock
10-30-06, 09:42 PM I always think of thieve guilds as the type of thing where they don't have a base to attack. It makes more sense that they have a seriees of "safehouses" weather you actually buy houses or you rent a room or two for a month or so under different names. This is nice because it's hard do find (let alone attack), and if they do find it it isn't the end of the world, they get one or two hiests worth of stuff saying they suprise them and noone grabs it before they leave, maybe a couple guys too. This is also good because the different cells could be pretty much seperate from you except you get some gold for giving them the job. Then if you are sneaky, noone will know anyone so everyone is safe. It's also cheap.

If you don't want to do this, go with the ship.
JasonOrlandoHawk
10-31-06, 12:10 AM A Classic Theives Guild is the "Legitimate Business."

Have a portion of your followers maintain a sizable building (though it may actually appear more modest) that hosts a completely legitimate, if somewhat low key, business, complete with all the legal paper work. Make sure the business takes in enough money that people aren't questioning why it doesn't go out of business, but also make sure that there's not so much legitimate business coming in that you risk blowing your cover.

Some ideas:

Tavern/Inn (good for people coming/going all hours of the night.)
Weapon Smithy
Brewery
Potion Shop (Oh that? That's just ingrediants for a special order cure potion that...)
Scribe/Messenger Service

Or you can think of some on your own.

Btw, the ship idea sounds cool, but this is my personal experience. My gaming group has purchased a ship in three seperate campaigns, one of which I was even the Captain of during the campaign.

We never used the ship for more than 6 sessions. Every GM ended up ignoring it b/c land battles are much easier to plan. My advice: A ship is cool, but if you go that route, make sure you talk to the GM first so that you don't waste an investment. While they are fun, they are typically short lived, which can be frustrating.
Callista
10-31-06, 01:34 AM I think you could combine your ship with your pocket dimension, as well as making the ship a "stronghold" of sorts.

Get some wizards, hire them to make a lot of portals. One end is on the ship; the other end is on the land--a new portal for every location.

The ship stays on the water, far from land and undetected. The majority of your thieves don't know where it is; and it can be moved in case of betrayal. All they know is where the portals are. Have the portals made so that they have a password which can be changed by you or someone you designate.

If the ship needs to be repaired, you will have to use spells to do so if you don't want to harbor somewhere. But if you have a wizard buddy or hireling, multiple spells of Mending and maybe some Fabricate should do the trick. Make sure your wizard studies shipbuilding. If there's a druid spell that allows a druid to shape wood, that may also be a good direction to go in.

Keep one portal for your own private use--where it goes and what the password is, only you know. People tend to get jealous of rich thieves.

The same can be done with a stronghold built on a desert island, underground, or in an uninhabited area; but these strongholds will not be moveable.
epifreak
10-31-06, 01:48 AM A Classic Theives Guild is the "Legitimate Business."

Have a portion of your followers maintain a sizable building (though it may actually appear more modest) that hosts a completely legitimate, if somewhat low key, business, complete with all the legal paper work. Make sure the business takes in enough money that people aren't questioning why it doesn't go out of business, but also make sure that there's not so much legitimate business coming in that you risk blowing your cover.

Some ideas:

Tavern/Inn (good for people coming/going all hours of the night.)
Weapon Smithy
Brewery
Potion Shop (Oh that? That's just ingrediants for a special order cure potion that...)
Scribe/Messenger Service

Or you can think of some on your own.

Btw, the ship idea sounds cool, but this is my personal experience. My gaming group has purchased a ship in three seperate campaigns, one of which I was even the Captain of during the campaign.

We never used the ship for more than 6 sessions. Every GM ended up ignoring it b/c land battles are much easier to plan. My advice: A ship is cool, but if you go that route, make sure you talk to the GM first so that you don't waste an investment. While they are fun, they are typically short lived, which can be frustrating.

This was my thought, actually, but it occurs to me that you could combine the ship with this and open some sort of "import-export" firm. Just make sure to have plenty of ranks in forgery to legitimize all those shady transportations, and you're good to go. You can easily justify expansion of your guild and even hide it from neighboring guilds pretty easily.

Hiding an import-export thieve's guild's new office
Okay, so what you do here is begin purely legitimetly. Your import-export business is opening a new branch in the city of ____________. You bring in a few ships, negotiate contracts, build/buy office and warehouse space; genuinely run a legit business for 2-3 months. After the business is established, you begin slowly filtering in your less legitimate items, immediately after some new business opens. Now here's how you're hidden. Nobody in a pre-existing thieve's guild is going to suspect the pre-existing legitimate business of being the culprit of the new competition, especially when there's this new business that just sprang up. By the time they get done with that red herring, you should have enough power invested in that city to prevent the opposition from doing anything. Bonus points if you somehow manage to draw police attention to them while the initial legitimate phase of your operation is going on. Then, they're too busy avoiding guard inquiries to deal with your upstart.
JellyPooga
10-31-06, 10:59 AM I think you could combine your ship with your pocket dimension, as well as making the ship a "stronghold" of sorts.

Get some wizards, hire them to make a lot of portals. One end is on the ship; the other end is on the land--a new portal for every location.

The ship stays on the water, far from land and undetected. The majority of your thieves don't know where it is; and it can be moved in case of betrayal. All they know is where the portals are. Have the portals made so that they have a password which can be changed by you or someone you designate.

If the ship needs to be repaired, you will have to use spells to do so if you don't want to harbor somewhere. But if you have a wizard buddy or hireling, multiple spells of Mending and maybe some Fabricate should do the trick. Make sure your wizard studies shipbuilding. If there's a druid spell that allows a druid to shape wood, that may also be a good direction to go in.

Keep one portal for your own private use--where it goes and what the password is, only you know. People tend to get jealous of rich thieves.

coo...I like that one:) might use it myself.

good for 'disposing' of any competition or customers that become unwelcome...just chuck it all overboard.
Sareld
10-31-06, 11:20 AM Yeah.. the only problem with the ship is that it is kind of easy to fond and attack with a combination of scry/locate object and teleport. My enemies should have those spells to their disposal, but I figure that the problem can be solved with a forbiddance/dimensional anchor spell and permanency.

Also, I could maybe find a way to make my ship count as a construct, and get my hands on a load of repair construct spells? That would make it difficult to damage permanently. And now we are at it, what about an airship (if there is other FF fanboys out there.. hello!)? That could be cool. Isnt there rules for airships somewhere? And how would I make a ship a construct? If my ship was a construct, it would also get receptible to magic buffs, such as haste, resist elementals, globes of invulnerabilities and so on.. I definately see the possibilities here!

Thanks for the help guys :D
Rickiel
10-31-06, 01:22 PM Personally, for my own stronghold I'd have to go with something mobile, sturdy, yet lovable.

First, I shall travel the depths of the Beastlands to find a Colossal Dire Tortoise.

Second, I shall ask of it if I can build my stronghold upon it's mighty back.

Third, if I get its permission I shall then an almost typical wizard's tower upon it's back.

Okay, so that's my idea so far. Though having a flying stronghold also sounds like a good idea to me.
elondir
10-31-06, 01:36 PM Pocket Dimensions can be created with a wizard spell named genesis. It is very handy and is not limited like the psionic version. All you need is to make a UMD check of 37 and a scroll (29k) and you've got one. I think a 10th level bard could do it if he bought a +16 UMD item.

Perhaps something to look into is a small, mobile, self-contained stronghold that has some form of mobility, particularly submersible and watertight. Other options are astral, teleporting, and flying. Look into the Stronghold Buidler's Guidebook - it's LOADED with stuff and has a feat called Landlord that gives you tons of gp to use in its construction. Keep in mind though that mobility is expensive and will make up most of the cost of the stronghold.

There is an example stronghold in it called the "flying tower" that costs 2.6 million gp but can fly and also move underwater. If you're attacked just go under the ocean for a while.
Sareld
10-31-06, 01:40 PM Ooo.. I will take a look at that book!

And this 'genesis' spell... where can I find it? And would a CL 10 sorceress be able to activate it?
Tolby
10-31-06, 01:54 PM Personally I like the several taverns/businesses cover for a fortress.

Inns/warehouses/stores all have several exits and could be used to fence the illicit gains. Secret entrances (from sewer/roof) could make moving them easy.

An obvious plus is that if one is raided you still have half a dozen to operate from.
Toptomcat
10-31-06, 01:57 PM Why is my suggestion not being taken seriously? A Bag of Holding is one of the most easily-accessable and cheapest extradimensional spaces.
Tempest Stormwind
10-31-06, 02:15 PM Ooo.. I will take a look at that book!

And this 'genesis' spell... where can I find it? And would a CL 10 sorceress be able to activate it?
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/spells/genesis.htm
Sareld
10-31-06, 02:15 PM Why is my suggestion not being taken seriously? A Bag of Holding is one of the most easily-accessable and cheapest extradimensional spaces.

Your bag of holding is too easy to sabotage. What if someone smuggled another bag of holding into it? Perhaps even without knowing it? BOOM, and to the astral plane we go.. not good.

The idea with the multiple warehouses is great, however I am not sure that it would work at my level. The kind of enemoes that my party and crimilal organization will be put up against will have easy access to spells like locate object, scry and teleport, and it will have my organization unraveled in no time unless I can take meassures to defend myself.

I could easily block out divinations from an underground lair, if I used the mud to stone spell to create a shell of rock around it, especially if I transformed the mud to rock with a high ratio of minerals that is rich on lead. The rock will alsi foil most attempts at digging into my hiding place. Furthermore, I guess that I could defend my lair from teleportation and extraplanar movement attacks with a permanent zone of forbiddance.

The ship could be shielded with a zone of forbiddance as well, and if I cover the hull in permanent walls of force, and had someone cast ironwood and reverse gravity on the masts I chould have a nigh impenertable hull and a ship that was totally immune it capsizing (beat it, dragon turtles!). I also like the idea of the ship having portals to the cities that I operate in. Finding a way to make my ship flying would also be great fun, but if it is too expensive I�ll just go with a normal ship.

EDIT:

That genesis spell looks nice. Is it in an official book? It has to be if I am to use it.. my DM doesent allow unofficial things.
Tempest Stormwind
10-31-06, 02:56 PM That genesis spell looks nice. Is it in an official book? It has to be if I am to use it.. my DM doesent allow unofficial things.It's shown up in the Epic Level Handbook and Deities and Demigods, with the ELH version added to the SRD. Do note that Complete Divine updated the Creation domain.

There's also a psionic power that behaves similarly, but costs less XP and has a weak antigenesis effect. In exchange, only shapers can get it pre-epic (and that means they can't get any of the other signature powers), and it doesn't allow you to adjust the Time trait of the plane or make it out of exotic materials.

Do note that adjusting the time trait is terribly, terribly overpowered -- the simplest abuse of that is spending one Plane Shift to not only fully heal and recover your spells, but also make new magic items or research new magic... in less than a second to everyone out there.
LCD2YOU
10-31-06, 03:04 PM I for one really like players building strongholds and keeps. I use them for other groups when they attack the BBEG's residences.

Also, all of the traps are LETHAL, give no quarter, have anti magic rooms, are protected from teleporting into or out of, etc.

When the new players complain about building such a "tough dungeon", I just tell them this was a stronghold of an old party I used to run.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Sareld 10-30-06, 11:10 AM	My swashbuckling bard have operated as a rouge for quite some time now (has rouge abilities from PrCs), and as I have just acuired the leadership feat I am planning to make him the head of a small thieves guild. For this thieves guild I need to have a base of operations, so that my 60-70 followers has a place to hide themselves, hide their loot, sell loot, regroup and organize, but I am still in doubt of what kind of stronghold to take. Here is my ideas so far: A large three masted ship in the harbor: Pros: - My thieves will be able to sneak in and out of the ship relatively easy at night. - I can sail away if I get in trouble. - I will have plenty of storage space. - I can move from port to port, so I can avoid to exhaust the rescourses of the cities I operate in. Cons: - The ships wooden construction makes it vulnerable to arson by rivalling thieves guilds. - The ship can be sunk or sabotaged to do so in open water. A secret dungeon connected to the sewers: Pros: - Hard to find, easy to defend if attacked. - The sewers connect it to most parts of the city, making it easy to get around with equipment and loot. - Easy to protect against divinations with lead. Cons: - Smells bad. - If found, relocating my base of operations will be hard and expensive. A pocket dimension: Pros: - Easy to get around.. portals can be set up everywhere. - Very hard to attack. - Easy to relocate if found, as I dont need to move anything but a portal. - Protected from divinations. Cons: - Extermely hard to obtain (how do you do that without taking 10 awful levels of that planar wizard class from 'manual of the planes'?) - Expensive. A fortress outside of town: Pros: - Very easy to defend. - Hard to approach wihout getting seen. Cons: - Very obivous.. though it can be hidden with illusions. - My strength will be easy to estimate, making it easy to send an assault force of the right size to destroy me. - Enemies can lay siege on me. I really need some inspiration here... What would you choose yourself? And how have you build up your successful strongholds for the diffrent classes?
Toptomcat 10-30-06, 11:23 AM	A pocket dimension: Pros: - Easy to get around.. portals can be set up everywhere. - Very hard to attack. - Easy to relocate if found, as I dont need to move anything but a portal. - Protected from divinations. Cons: - Extermely hard to obtain (how do you do that without taking 10 awful levels of that planar wizard class from 'manual of the planes'?) - Expensive. Buy a big Bag of Holding and toss in a Bottle of Air to keep the air from going stale. Problem solved.
JellyPooga 10-30-06, 11:44 AM	How about a secret underground fortress built around a ship in an underground lake, accessable only via a pocket plane that's connected to the sewers that lead out of town? That's what I'd have as my stronghold anyway... Seriously though, I have never had a stronghold in a game of D&D (except Baldurs Gate 2), but if I were to get one, I'd go with my heart rather than my head. you seem to have thought this through fairly thouroughly, so base it on what you think your character would prefer asthetically. Is he a sailor/piratey type? go for the ship. Is he more sneaky and black-market underworld? go for the sewers. Is he showy and ostentatious? go for the fortress. Does he have some powerful mage friends or plan on having them as 'customers'? Go with pocket plane.
Iry 10-30-06, 12:03 PM	The Ship is probably your best bet because it is the only one of the above that not only can be used for extensive plot involvement but can also go along on adventures with you! It's mere existence opens up high seas adventures, the ability to sail upstreams and gain rapid transportation, as well as even a flying airship in the distant future if you're into that kind of thing.
Tempest Stormwind 10-30-06, 01:51 PM	Ship. But don't build one just yet. Wait till level 9 and have both yourself and the cohort take Landlord. Pool your funds and build the Armada of the Gods (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=381080). (Note: It IS possible to assemble these ships on the budget mentioned, although it requires a fair bit of planning.)
capeMyrmidon 10-30-06, 07:27 PM	the boats a fine one, what if you bought a tavern with a trap down to the sewers. hide loot/people in the kegs big, dark easy to find contacts in.
Toloran 10-30-06, 09:21 PM	Find a small to medium sized costal town that has some sea cliffs near by. Make an inn there and build an underground tunnel that leads to a cave hidden the the cliffs. Then, go with the boat idea. It gives you the best of underground fortress and boat ideas :D
Tiefling_Warlock 10-30-06, 09:42 PM	I always think of thieve guilds as the type of thing where they don't have a base to attack. It makes more sense that they have a seriees of "safehouses" weather you actually buy houses or you rent a room or two for a month or so under different names. This is nice because it's hard do find (let alone attack), and if they do find it it isn't the end of the world, they get one or two hiests worth of stuff saying they suprise them and noone grabs it before they leave, maybe a couple guys too. This is also good because the different cells could be pretty much seperate from you except you get some gold for giving them the job. Then if you are sneaky, noone will know anyone so everyone is safe. It's also cheap. If you don't want to do this, go with the ship.
JasonOrlandoHawk 10-31-06, 12:10 AM	A Classic Theives Guild is the "Legitimate Business." Have a portion of your followers maintain a sizable building (though it may actually appear more modest) that hosts a completely legitimate, if somewhat low key, business, complete with all the legal paper work. Make sure the business takes in enough money that people aren't questioning why it doesn't go out of business, but also make sure that there's not so much legitimate business coming in that you risk blowing your cover. Some ideas: Tavern/Inn (good for people coming/going all hours of the night.) Weapon Smithy Brewery Potion Shop (Oh that? That's just ingrediants for a special order cure potion that...) Scribe/Messenger Service Or you can think of some on your own. Btw, the ship idea sounds cool, but this is my personal experience. My gaming group has purchased a ship in three seperate campaigns, one of which I was even the Captain of during the campaign. We never used the ship for more than 6 sessions. Every GM ended up ignoring it b/c land battles are much easier to plan. My advice: A ship is cool, but if you go that route, make sure you talk to the GM first so that you don't waste an investment. While they are fun, they are typically short lived, which can be frustrating.
Callista 10-31-06, 01:34 AM	I think you could combine your ship with your pocket dimension, as well as making the ship a "stronghold" of sorts. Get some wizards, hire them to make a lot of portals. One end is on the ship; the other end is on the land--a new portal for every location. The ship stays on the water, far from land and undetected. The majority of your thieves don't know where it is; and it can be moved in case of betrayal. All they know is where the portals are. Have the portals made so that they have a password which can be changed by you or someone you designate. If the ship needs to be repaired, you will have to use spells to do so if you don't want to harbor somewhere. But if you have a wizard buddy or hireling, multiple spells of Mending and maybe some Fabricate should do the trick. Make sure your wizard studies shipbuilding. If there's a druid spell that allows a druid to shape wood, that may also be a good direction to go in. Keep one portal for your own private use--where it goes and what the password is, only you know. People tend to get jealous of rich thieves. The same can be done with a stronghold built on a desert island, underground, or in an uninhabited area; but these strongholds will not be moveable.
epifreak 10-31-06, 01:48 AM	A Classic Theives Guild is the "Legitimate Business." Have a portion of your followers maintain a sizable building (though it may actually appear more modest) that hosts a completely legitimate, if somewhat low key, business, complete with all the legal paper work. Make sure the business takes in enough money that people aren't questioning why it doesn't go out of business, but also make sure that there's not so much legitimate business coming in that you risk blowing your cover. Some ideas: Tavern/Inn (good for people coming/going all hours of the night.) Weapon Smithy Brewery Potion Shop (Oh that? That's just ingrediants for a special order cure potion that...) Scribe/Messenger Service Or you can think of some on your own. Btw, the ship idea sounds cool, but this is my personal experience. My gaming group has purchased a ship in three seperate campaigns, one of which I was even the Captain of during the campaign. We never used the ship for more than 6 sessions. Every GM ended up ignoring it b/c land battles are much easier to plan. My advice: A ship is cool, but if you go that route, make sure you talk to the GM first so that you don't waste an investment. While they are fun, they are typically short lived, which can be frustrating. This was my thought, actually, but it occurs to me that you could combine the ship with this and open some sort of "import-export" firm. Just make sure to have plenty of ranks in forgery to legitimize all those shady transportations, and you're good to go. You can easily justify expansion of your guild and even hide it from neighboring guilds pretty easily. Hiding an import-export thieve's guild's new office Okay, so what you do here is begin purely legitimetly. Your import-export business is opening a new branch in the city of ____________. You bring in a few ships, negotiate contracts, build/buy office and warehouse space; genuinely run a legit business for 2-3 months. After the business is established, you begin slowly filtering in your less legitimate items, immediately after some new business opens. Now here's how you're hidden. Nobody in a pre-existing thieve's guild is going to suspect the pre-existing legitimate business of being the culprit of the new competition, especially when there's this new business that just sprang up. By the time they get done with that red herring, you should have enough power invested in that city to prevent the opposition from doing anything. Bonus points if you somehow manage to draw police attention to them while the initial legitimate phase of your operation is going on. Then, they're too busy avoiding guard inquiries to deal with your upstart.
JellyPooga 10-31-06, 10:59 AM	I think you could combine your ship with your pocket dimension, as well as making the ship a "stronghold" of sorts. Get some wizards, hire them to make a lot of portals. One end is on the ship; the other end is on the land--a new portal for every location. The ship stays on the water, far from land and undetected. The majority of your thieves don't know where it is; and it can be moved in case of betrayal. All they know is where the portals are. Have the portals made so that they have a password which can be changed by you or someone you designate. If the ship needs to be repaired, you will have to use spells to do so if you don't want to harbor somewhere. But if you have a wizard buddy or hireling, multiple spells of Mending and maybe some Fabricate should do the trick. Make sure your wizard studies shipbuilding. If there's a druid spell that allows a druid to shape wood, that may also be a good direction to go in. Keep one portal for your own private use--where it goes and what the password is, only you know. People tend to get jealous of rich thieves. coo...I like that one:) might use it myself. good for 'disposing' of any competition or customers that become unwelcome...just chuck it all overboard.
Sareld 10-31-06, 11:20 AM	Yeah.. the only problem with the ship is that it is kind of easy to fond and attack with a combination of scry/locate object and teleport. My enemies should have those spells to their disposal, but I figure that the problem can be solved with a forbiddance/dimensional anchor spell and permanency. Also, I could maybe find a way to make my ship count as a construct, and get my hands on a load of repair construct spells? That would make it difficult to damage permanently. And now we are at it, what about an airship (if there is other FF fanboys out there.. hello!)? That could be cool. Isnt there rules for airships somewhere? And how would I make a ship a construct? If my ship was a construct, it would also get receptible to magic buffs, such as haste, resist elementals, globes of invulnerabilities and so on.. I definately see the possibilities here! Thanks for the help guys :D
Rickiel 10-31-06, 01:22 PM	Personally, for my own stronghold I'd have to go with something mobile, sturdy, yet lovable. First, I shall travel the depths of the Beastlands to find a Colossal Dire Tortoise. Second, I shall ask of it if I can build my stronghold upon it's mighty back. Third, if I get its permission I shall then an almost typical wizard's tower upon it's back. Okay, so that's my idea so far. Though having a flying stronghold also sounds like a good idea to me.
elondir 10-31-06, 01:36 PM	Pocket Dimensions can be created with a wizard spell named genesis. It is very handy and is not limited like the psionic version. All you need is to make a UMD check of 37 and a scroll (29k) and you've got one. I think a 10th level bard could do it if he bought a +16 UMD item. Perhaps something to look into is a small, mobile, self-contained stronghold that has some form of mobility, particularly submersible and watertight. Other options are astral, teleporting, and flying. Look into the Stronghold Buidler's Guidebook - it's LOADED with stuff and has a feat called Landlord that gives you tons of gp to use in its construction. Keep in mind though that mobility is expensive and will make up most of the cost of the stronghold. There is an example stronghold in it called the "flying tower" that costs 2.6 million gp but can fly and also move underwater. If you're attacked just go under the ocean for a while.
Sareld 10-31-06, 01:40 PM	Ooo.. I will take a look at that book! And this 'genesis' spell... where can I find it? And would a CL 10 sorceress be able to activate it?
Tolby 10-31-06, 01:54 PM	Personally I like the several taverns/businesses cover for a fortress. Inns/warehouses/stores all have several exits and could be used to fence the illicit gains. Secret entrances (from sewer/roof) could make moving them easy. An obvious plus is that if one is raided you still have half a dozen to operate from.
Toptomcat 10-31-06, 01:57 PM	Why is my suggestion not being taken seriously? A Bag of Holding is one of the most easily-accessable and cheapest extradimensional spaces.
Tempest Stormwind 10-31-06, 02:15 PM	Ooo.. I will take a look at that book! And this 'genesis' spell... where can I find it? And would a CL 10 sorceress be able to activate it? http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/spells/genesis.htm
Sareld 10-31-06, 02:15 PM	Why is my suggestion not being taken seriously? A Bag of Holding is one of the most easily-accessable and cheapest extradimensional spaces. Your bag of holding is too easy to sabotage. What if someone smuggled another bag of holding into it? Perhaps even without knowing it? BOOM, and to the astral plane we go.. not good. The idea with the multiple warehouses is great, however I am not sure that it would work at my level. The kind of enemoes that my party and crimilal organization will be put up against will have easy access to spells like locate object, scry and teleport, and it will have my organization unraveled in no time unless I can take meassures to defend myself. I could easily block out divinations from an underground lair, if I used the mud to stone spell to create a shell of rock around it, especially if I transformed the mud to rock with a high ratio of minerals that is rich on lead. The rock will alsi foil most attempts at digging into my hiding place. Furthermore, I guess that I could defend my lair from teleportation and extraplanar movement attacks with a permanent zone of forbiddance. The ship could be shielded with a zone of forbiddance as well, and if I cover the hull in permanent walls of force, and had someone cast ironwood and reverse gravity on the masts I chould have a nigh impenertable hull and a ship that was totally immune it capsizing (beat it, dragon turtles!). I also like the idea of the ship having portals to the cities that I operate in. Finding a way to make my ship flying would also be great fun, but if it is too expensive I�ll just go with a normal ship. EDIT: That genesis spell looks nice. Is it in an official book? It has to be if I am to use it.. my DM doesent allow unofficial things.
Tempest Stormwind 10-31-06, 02:56 PM	That genesis spell looks nice. Is it in an official book? It has to be if I am to use it.. my DM doesent allow unofficial things.It's shown up in the Epic Level Handbook and Deities and Demigods, with the ELH version added to the SRD. Do note that Complete Divine updated the Creation domain. There's also a psionic power that behaves similarly, but costs less XP and has a weak antigenesis effect. In exchange, only shapers can get it pre-epic (and that means they can't get any of the other signature powers), and it doesn't allow you to adjust the Time trait of the plane or make it out of exotic materials. Do note that adjusting the time trait is terribly, terribly overpowered -- the simplest abuse of that is spending one Plane Shift to not only fully heal and recover your spells, but also make new magic items or research new magic... in less than a second to everyone out there.
LCD2YOU 10-31-06, 03:04 PM	I for one really like players building strongholds and keeps. I use them for other groups when they attack the BBEG's residences. Also, all of the traps are LETHAL, give no quarter, have anti magic rooms, are protected from teleporting into or out of, etc. When the new players complain about building such a "tough dungeon", I just tell them this was a stronghold of an old party I used to run.