Buying/Training/Riding a bear... [Archive] - Wizards Community

Buying/Training/Riding a bear... [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Throg
06-10-06, 10:33 PM I'm planning for a future charector, the idea being a heavily armored dwarven knight... Riding around ontop of a Grizzly/Polar bear.

The problem is, I have no idea where to find info on how to go about either buying a bear.. which might be DM's descretion on the price depending on the area...

But the price for training such a beast is beyond my knowlage. There are few abnormal mounts given a price to train or buy the young. This is the first step I need..

Second, I'd want to know.. is the ride check different for an abnormal mount? I don't have any books on me that describe different mounts, but I can get access to such easily (Friends own just about everybook ever... well... actually yes, they do.) if you could point me in a direction.

I do know that I'd need to buy a saddle for an exotic mount for sure.. is that in the DMG or not?
Thurbane
06-11-06, 05:06 AM Well, I don't know about the rest of it, but exotic saddles are right there in the PHB under equipment (triple the cost of standard saddles).
9JACK9
06-11-06, 10:27 AM Easy question! Not about Paladin Alignment at all!

"Ride" applies to just about every creature imaginable, with no penalty at all. (Except in the case of bipedal creatures, like a giant or anything else that walks around on two legs.)

So no, Ride's all set. Gonna need an exotic saddle, though.

Bears, though... that's a tough one. Most towns don't have an " Yee Ol' Exotic Mounts" store right next to the "Yee Ol' Magic Store", you know?

"Handle Animal" has now become your best friend. However, this ain't an easy task. The best way would be to find a baby bear, and raise it from infancy... that's with a "Handle Animal: Rear a wild animal" check of 15+HD.
On top of that, you'd also want to teach it to carry you into combat, so that's another "Handle Animal" check of 20.

This in the PHB, btw, page 74. In Skills. Oh, and remember the two Synergy bonuses with "Ride" and "Handle Animal"... five ranks in one will give you a +2 on the other!
Who knows, could work. What level are you guys staring as? Because with the "Animal Affinity" feat (+2 to "Ride", +2 to "Handle Animal") and a fairly good Cha, you might be looking at a +8 right off at first level!
Second level, with a Cha of 14, you could have yourself a "Handle Animal" of +11. That's pretty good!

Polar Bears have 8 HD, though. So even raising one from a cub would be a DC of 23. That's ain't no joke...

But, if you guys start at level 6, or something... I dunno. I'd talk to your DM about it. I'm gonna go out on a limb and guess that you're DM isn't gonna have a full-grown Polar Bear in the "Petsmart" in the next town, bro.

But good luck! Even at first level, with 8 skill points, you can be well on your way.
Sunrider
06-11-06, 10:36 AM Take the Wild Cohort feat. Use it to gain a bear. It wil serve you well.

Elephants are also fun... you can put a whole party of ranged characters (archers and casters) in an armoured howdah on top, benefitting from cover as you shoot/cast...
Throg
06-11-06, 06:00 PM Heh, well thanks a lot for the replies. Guess I wasn't looking hard enough for the saddle, but this is actually for an idea if and when one of our dm's start up a new campain (he shut his current one due to a few problems with some people..).

I wasn't sure if there was a chart somewhere telling the costs for buying a trained animal, or paying a trainer to train one for you. I know the DC's and whatnot, it's just a hard call... no DM in their right mind would let me start out with a bear for nothing. It's obiously better then a warhorse.

If I go with Grizzle or Polar depends on the setting really. The DM in question has a tendancy to do Nordic adventures, so tends to use colder climates if he has the idea.

I just really want to do the concept... mainly because it's EXTREME... heh, actually it's just something cool and interesting without being outside of society or a weirdo in culture, like a few of our players think needs to be done to spur on roleplay.
Thurbane
06-11-06, 08:31 PM If I was running the campaign I'd let you buy a trained grizzly (brown bear) for about 6 times the cost of a heavy warhorse: 2x for double the CR, and 3x for exotic. That would be for a bear with about the same training as the standard warhorse.

Others may have a better idea for cost.
utilitarian
06-11-06, 08:57 PM Yea, Wild Cohort will work... however there's nothing that says you can't use the appropreate Handle Animal and Ride skills. If memory serves me correctly, I believe there's a PrC out there specifically revolving around using strange mounts. Can't remmeber it though.

as for the type of bear, you'll likely start with a Brown, and then eventually replace him with newer, fiercer bears as you level.
CryoSilver
06-11-06, 09:19 PM Polymorph your horse into a bear

:P
utilitarian
06-11-06, 09:27 PM Actually, polymorph any object horse to bear would result in a perminate transition if I'm not mistaken (don't have the table infront of me)

Just pay for a Polymorpy Any Object at your local wizardry
Sunrider
06-12-06, 01:44 AM PAO is 'permanent', not 'instantenous' - it can be dispelled. If you don't want to go with the Wild Cohort route, try Awakening the horse, negotiating with it (convincing it that it wants to be a bear), then keep on killing/reincarnating it until it's a bear.
FeceMan
06-12-06, 02:01 AM PAO is 'permanent', not 'instantenous' - it can be dispelled. If you don't want to go with the Wild Cohort route, try Awakening the horse, negotiating with it (convincing it that it wants to be a bear), then keep on killing/reincarnating it until it's a bear.
LOL.

Hopefully you'll roll really low for INT/WIS, then.
Throg
06-12-06, 12:31 PM I'd rather not have to take a feat.. besides I have no clue where wild cohort is anyways.

the 6x seems good, 2400g shouldn't be too hard to save up for.. Though heading to that amount, for another 1600, I could get a pegasus (Those would be 4000 for a trained young, or if I'm starting higher level, sould just say I bought a pegasus egg, then got a professional to train it.. which would be 3000g)

With that in mind... maybe a x4 would be more suitable, x2 for CR, x2 for Exotic. 1600 might sound more reasonable. Bears aren't as rare as a Pegasus would be, and they aren't able to fly. Two aspects that I think would make them a little lesser in comparasin.. of course it's the DM's call in the end.
Sereno
06-12-06, 01:20 PM With that in mind... maybe a x4 would be more suitable, x2 for CR, x2 for Exotic. 1600 might sound more reasonable. Bears aren't as rare as a Pegasus would be, and they aren't able to fly. Two aspects that I think would make them a little lesser in comparasin.. of course it's the DM's call in the end.

Coming at this from the DM-side of things, I'd be a lot less worried about the flight of a pegasus as I would for the combat abilities of a bear. Bears are really tough in melee combat.

Druids, the most "animal compatible" of all the classes, can't have a grizzly (brown) bear animal companion until level 7 or higher ... 10th for a polar bear.

Certainly, there are advantages to having the companion over having it simply as a mount, but you're still (probably) going to be using it's abilities in combat.

I certainly wouldn't allow you to simply purchase one without taking any feats or making any Ride/Handle Animal checks.
Sunrider
06-13-06, 03:51 AM Depends on the nature of the rider...

Is the rider an archer/spellslinger? Speed and movement types win out every time (for mounted archers, I often give my Wild Cohorts the Quick trait... the ability to stay out of melee is worth a lot).

Light cavalry? You want a balance between speed, defences and firepower.

Heavy cavalry? The mount needs to be tough and powerful.

Bears are good for heavy cavalry. Pegasi are good for light cavalry or ranged cavalry.

Elephants... well, they're really in a league of their own. Powerful in melee, but you can stick a turret/howdah on top and fill it with archers (who then benefit from the cover of the turret and are out of reach of most characters on the ground anyway).

All you need to do then is give it the ability to fly, then use the Rod of Wonders until it turns pink...
jasper
06-13-06, 03:27 PM I like the cost mentioned but if I was dming and everyone else want to go along with it, you getting the bear would be the first adventure. Then training it would be the second adventure.
psionichamster
06-13-06, 06:15 PM if you've got it, check out the Eberron splatbook "Five Nations"

i believe there is a Magebred Brown Bear in there (under Breland or Aundair, IIRC), that has been combat trained for just this exact purpose.

don't remember about the cost off hand, but i'd be fairly comfortable w/ a 2000-3000 gp investment. of course, this assumes a battle-trained mount to start. getting a cub would be fairly easy, but time consuming...go to the local woods, find the appropriate bear-type, kill mom (or, if you have a druid/ranger friend, recruit mom), and take cubs.

rear cubs, train to be "battleride trained", pick up an exotic saddle and some barding, and there you go. don't remember off hand if a bear has a climb speed or not...if so, invest in some straps/rigging to hold you on the beast's back when he makes w/ the spiderman.

namaste'
the hamster
Throg
06-14-06, 12:49 PM Well, hows this for a question

How fast does a grizzle bear cub mature into a full grown bear? If I am the one raising him, then I could technicly save somewhere between 500-1000g for the training cost... I might say 1000 because I doubt any trainer wouldn'tl have problems trying to handle a bear to warmount potential.

I like the idea of getting the bear, then raising him myself (I would take full ranks in Handle Animal and Ride) so it might take awhile but I'd be able to do it.

Depending on what level this charector would start at will determine how I go about getting said bear. I might make it a quest reward for the DM to use...

My plan is to say(If at low levels) that his king from the dwarven city he came from, ordered him to go prove himself outside of the city's walls on some sort of quest.. or to complete a quest for some city, then he was to come back with proof of his deed, then get his own mount. Cheesy but it'd work, especially if I can get said king to give the rest of the party equal rewards as well since they helped me so they wouldn't be left out. I'll make a much better backstory, but that's the just of it.

If we start at high enough levels, I'll work the same concept into his backstory but say he acomplished said task then received the bear (Buying it of course for however much the DM says for.. because it's mostly his choice by the looks of this thread)
psionichamster
06-14-06, 03:03 PM did a little digging on bear maturation rates and the like:

seems like an average birth weight is about 500g, and a litter will have btw. 1 and 4 cubs.

cubs stay w/ mom for 18mo-3yrs, after which females are just entering their sexual maturity.

maturity hits for females between 3-8 y.o. and lifespan is about 25-30 yrs. (in perfect conditions...shorter w/ harsher conditions, longer in captivity)

in game terms, the brown bear has 6 hd, and w/ an average 2 year "growth period" before they are fully grown (advancement allows for 7-10hd bears, mind you), that's 1hd/4 months of growth. (assuming they gain hd at a linear progression, and don't go from 1-2 straight to 6 in one quick spurt.

so, snag a yearling, preferably a male, without a momma-bear to tag along with, and spend about a year raising/training it. now, you've got yourself your 6 hd, imp grab powerhouse to ride on.

namaste'
the hamster
Jayr
06-14-06, 05:53 PM Here it is. (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/re/20031118a)
Throg
06-15-06, 12:24 AM I looked at the feat.. the problem is, I'd have to wait till level 10 to get a Brown Bear. So unless I take it at level 12, or take it sooner and just get a brown bear later, it isn't really worth it.. at least right away.

I like the yearling idea, thanks for the info... but the problem still lies in cost. It isn't fair to the rest of the group I'd be traveling with if I got such an animal for nothing. I think doing all the handle animal checks for myself would be for the best as well.
Sunrider
06-15-06, 07:47 AM I looked at the feat.. the problem is, I'd have to wait till level 10 to get a Brown Bear. So unless I take it at level 12, or take it sooner and just get a brown bear later, it isn't really worth it.. at least right away.

I like the yearling idea, thanks for the info... but the problem still lies in cost. It isn't fair to the rest of the group I'd be traveling with if I got such an animal for nothing. I think doing all the handle animal checks for myself would be for the best as well.

If you can find one and rear/train it, you can have your polar bear before then. It just won't be a wild cohort, that's all - when the time comes, you can take the feat and make it one.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Throg 06-10-06, 10:33 PM	I'm planning for a future charector, the idea being a heavily armored dwarven knight... Riding around ontop of a Grizzly/Polar bear. The problem is, I have no idea where to find info on how to go about either buying a bear.. which might be DM's descretion on the price depending on the area... But the price for training such a beast is beyond my knowlage. There are few abnormal mounts given a price to train or buy the young. This is the first step I need.. Second, I'd want to know.. is the ride check different for an abnormal mount? I don't have any books on me that describe different mounts, but I can get access to such easily (Friends own just about everybook ever... well... actually yes, they do.) if you could point me in a direction. I do know that I'd need to buy a saddle for an exotic mount for sure.. is that in the DMG or not?
Thurbane 06-11-06, 05:06 AM	Well, I don't know about the rest of it, but exotic saddles are right there in the PHB under equipment (triple the cost of standard saddles).
9JACK9 06-11-06, 10:27 AM	Easy question! Not about Paladin Alignment at all! "Ride" applies to just about every creature imaginable, with no penalty at all. (Except in the case of bipedal creatures, like a giant or anything else that walks around on two legs.) So no, Ride's all set. Gonna need an exotic saddle, though. Bears, though... that's a tough one. Most towns don't have an " Yee Ol' Exotic Mounts" store right next to the "Yee Ol' Magic Store", you know? "Handle Animal" has now become your best friend. However, this ain't an easy task. The best way would be to find a baby bear, and raise it from infancy... that's with a "Handle Animal: Rear a wild animal" check of 15+HD. On top of that, you'd also want to teach it to carry you into combat, so that's another "Handle Animal" check of 20. This in the PHB, btw, page 74. In Skills. Oh, and remember the two Synergy bonuses with "Ride" and "Handle Animal"... five ranks in one will give you a +2 on the other! Who knows, could work. What level are you guys staring as? Because with the "Animal Affinity" feat (+2 to "Ride", +2 to "Handle Animal") and a fairly good Cha, you might be looking at a +8 right off at first level! Second level, with a Cha of 14, you could have yourself a "Handle Animal" of +11. That's pretty good! Polar Bears have 8 HD, though. So even raising one from a cub would be a DC of 23. That's ain't no joke... But, if you guys start at level 6, or something... I dunno. I'd talk to your DM about it. I'm gonna go out on a limb and guess that you're DM isn't gonna have a full-grown Polar Bear in the "Petsmart" in the next town, bro. But good luck! Even at first level, with 8 skill points, you can be well on your way.
Sunrider 06-11-06, 10:36 AM	Take the Wild Cohort feat. Use it to gain a bear. It wil serve you well. Elephants are also fun... you can put a whole party of ranged characters (archers and casters) in an armoured howdah on top, benefitting from cover as you shoot/cast...
Throg 06-11-06, 06:00 PM	Heh, well thanks a lot for the replies. Guess I wasn't looking hard enough for the saddle, but this is actually for an idea if and when one of our dm's start up a new campain (he shut his current one due to a few problems with some people..). I wasn't sure if there was a chart somewhere telling the costs for buying a trained animal, or paying a trainer to train one for you. I know the DC's and whatnot, it's just a hard call... no DM in their right mind would let me start out with a bear for nothing. It's obiously better then a warhorse. If I go with Grizzle or Polar depends on the setting really. The DM in question has a tendancy to do Nordic adventures, so tends to use colder climates if he has the idea. I just really want to do the concept... mainly because it's EXTREME... heh, actually it's just something cool and interesting without being outside of society or a weirdo in culture, like a few of our players think needs to be done to spur on roleplay.
Thurbane 06-11-06, 08:31 PM	If I was running the campaign I'd let you buy a trained grizzly (brown bear) for about 6 times the cost of a heavy warhorse: 2x for double the CR, and 3x for exotic. That would be for a bear with about the same training as the standard warhorse. Others may have a better idea for cost.
utilitarian 06-11-06, 08:57 PM	Yea, Wild Cohort will work... however there's nothing that says you can't use the appropreate Handle Animal and Ride skills. If memory serves me correctly, I believe there's a PrC out there specifically revolving around using strange mounts. Can't remmeber it though. as for the type of bear, you'll likely start with a Brown, and then eventually replace him with newer, fiercer bears as you level.
CryoSilver 06-11-06, 09:19 PM	Polymorph your horse into a bear :P
utilitarian 06-11-06, 09:27 PM	Actually, polymorph any object horse to bear would result in a perminate transition if I'm not mistaken (don't have the table infront of me) Just pay for a Polymorpy Any Object at your local wizardry
Sunrider 06-12-06, 01:44 AM	PAO is 'permanent', not 'instantenous' - it can be dispelled. If you don't want to go with the Wild Cohort route, try Awakening the horse, negotiating with it (convincing it that it wants to be a bear), then keep on killing/reincarnating it until it's a bear.
FeceMan 06-12-06, 02:01 AM	PAO is 'permanent', not 'instantenous' - it can be dispelled. If you don't want to go with the Wild Cohort route, try Awakening the horse, negotiating with it (convincing it that it wants to be a bear), then keep on killing/reincarnating it until it's a bear. LOL. Hopefully you'll roll really low for INT/WIS, then.
Throg 06-12-06, 12:31 PM	I'd rather not have to take a feat.. besides I have no clue where wild cohort is anyways. the 6x seems good, 2400g shouldn't be too hard to save up for.. Though heading to that amount, for another 1600, I could get a pegasus (Those would be 4000 for a trained young, or if I'm starting higher level, sould just say I bought a pegasus egg, then got a professional to train it.. which would be 3000g) With that in mind... maybe a x4 would be more suitable, x2 for CR, x2 for Exotic. 1600 might sound more reasonable. Bears aren't as rare as a Pegasus would be, and they aren't able to fly. Two aspects that I think would make them a little lesser in comparasin.. of course it's the DM's call in the end.
Sereno 06-12-06, 01:20 PM	With that in mind... maybe a x4 would be more suitable, x2 for CR, x2 for Exotic. 1600 might sound more reasonable. Bears aren't as rare as a Pegasus would be, and they aren't able to fly. Two aspects that I think would make them a little lesser in comparasin.. of course it's the DM's call in the end. Coming at this from the DM-side of things, I'd be a lot less worried about the flight of a pegasus as I would for the combat abilities of a bear. Bears are really tough in melee combat. Druids, the most "animal compatible" of all the classes, can't have a grizzly (brown) bear animal companion until level 7 or higher ... 10th for a polar bear. Certainly, there are advantages to having the companion over having it simply as a mount, but you're still (probably) going to be using it's abilities in combat. I certainly wouldn't allow you to simply purchase one without taking any feats or making any Ride/Handle Animal checks.
Sunrider 06-13-06, 03:51 AM	Depends on the nature of the rider... Is the rider an archer/spellslinger? Speed and movement types win out every time (for mounted archers, I often give my Wild Cohorts the Quick trait... the ability to stay out of melee is worth a lot). Light cavalry? You want a balance between speed, defences and firepower. Heavy cavalry? The mount needs to be tough and powerful. Bears are good for heavy cavalry. Pegasi are good for light cavalry or ranged cavalry. Elephants... well, they're really in a league of their own. Powerful in melee, but you can stick a turret/howdah on top and fill it with archers (who then benefit from the cover of the turret and are out of reach of most characters on the ground anyway). All you need to do then is give it the ability to fly, then use the Rod of Wonders until it turns pink...
jasper 06-13-06, 03:27 PM	I like the cost mentioned but if I was dming and everyone else want to go along with it, you getting the bear would be the first adventure. Then training it would be the second adventure.
psionichamster 06-13-06, 06:15 PM	if you've got it, check out the Eberron splatbook "Five Nations" i believe there is a Magebred Brown Bear in there (under Breland or Aundair, IIRC), that has been combat trained for just this exact purpose. don't remember about the cost off hand, but i'd be fairly comfortable w/ a 2000-3000 gp investment. of course, this assumes a battle-trained mount to start. getting a cub would be fairly easy, but time consuming...go to the local woods, find the appropriate bear-type, kill mom (or, if you have a druid/ranger friend, recruit mom), and take cubs. rear cubs, train to be "battleride trained", pick up an exotic saddle and some barding, and there you go. don't remember off hand if a bear has a climb speed or not...if so, invest in some straps/rigging to hold you on the beast's back when he makes w/ the spiderman. namaste' the hamster
Throg 06-14-06, 12:49 PM	Well, hows this for a question How fast does a grizzle bear cub mature into a full grown bear? If I am the one raising him, then I could technicly save somewhere between 500-1000g for the training cost... I might say 1000 because I doubt any trainer wouldn'tl have problems trying to handle a bear to warmount potential. I like the idea of getting the bear, then raising him myself (I would take full ranks in Handle Animal and Ride) so it might take awhile but I'd be able to do it. Depending on what level this charector would start at will determine how I go about getting said bear. I might make it a quest reward for the DM to use... My plan is to say(If at low levels) that his king from the dwarven city he came from, ordered him to go prove himself outside of the city's walls on some sort of quest.. or to complete a quest for some city, then he was to come back with proof of his deed, then get his own mount. Cheesy but it'd work, especially if I can get said king to give the rest of the party equal rewards as well since they helped me so they wouldn't be left out. I'll make a much better backstory, but that's the just of it. If we start at high enough levels, I'll work the same concept into his backstory but say he acomplished said task then received the bear (Buying it of course for however much the DM says for.. because it's mostly his choice by the looks of this thread)
psionichamster 06-14-06, 03:03 PM	did a little digging on bear maturation rates and the like: seems like an average birth weight is about 500g, and a litter will have btw. 1 and 4 cubs. cubs stay w/ mom for 18mo-3yrs, after which females are just entering their sexual maturity. maturity hits for females between 3-8 y.o. and lifespan is about 25-30 yrs. (in perfect conditions...shorter w/ harsher conditions, longer in captivity) in game terms, the brown bear has 6 hd, and w/ an average 2 year "growth period" before they are fully grown (advancement allows for 7-10hd bears, mind you), that's 1hd/4 months of growth. (assuming they gain hd at a linear progression, and don't go from 1-2 straight to 6 in one quick spurt. so, snag a yearling, preferably a male, without a momma-bear to tag along with, and spend about a year raising/training it. now, you've got yourself your 6 hd, imp grab powerhouse to ride on. namaste' the hamster
Jayr 06-14-06, 05:53 PM	Here it is. (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/re/20031118a)
Throg 06-15-06, 12:24 AM	I looked at the feat.. the problem is, I'd have to wait till level 10 to get a Brown Bear. So unless I take it at level 12, or take it sooner and just get a brown bear later, it isn't really worth it.. at least right away. I like the yearling idea, thanks for the info... but the problem still lies in cost. It isn't fair to the rest of the group I'd be traveling with if I got such an animal for nothing. I think doing all the handle animal checks for myself would be for the best as well.
Sunrider 06-15-06, 07:47 AM	I looked at the feat.. the problem is, I'd have to wait till level 10 to get a Brown Bear. So unless I take it at level 12, or take it sooner and just get a brown bear later, it isn't really worth it.. at least right away. I like the yearling idea, thanks for the info... but the problem still lies in cost. It isn't fair to the rest of the group I'd be traveling with if I got such an animal for nothing. I think doing all the handle animal checks for myself would be for the best as well. If you can find one and rear/train it, you can have your polar bear before then. It just won't be a wild cohort, that's all - when the time comes, you can take the feat and make it one.