Post/Author/DateTime	Post
dwarvensorclv1 10-17-06, 04:31 PM	Dear person with larger brain than I, My cleric has recently acquired Vow of peace. Therefore he has a constant calmin aura that functions as the spell calm emotions. My Dm and I however are haveing a dispute over the calm emotion rules. The rules state that no violent actions can be taken. To me, this extends to subdual, tripping, disarming, bullrushes, grappling, ect. My Dm however refrences the vow of non-violence which allows me to do subdual, but not to do leathal. I am begging for clarification; please help. Your loyal and humble servant, Dwarvensorclv1
CryoSilver 10-17-06, 05:14 PM	Would you consider punching someone in the face non-violent? How about kicking them in the back of the knee? How about putting them in a chokehold and throwing them to the floor? Twisting their arm and applying agonizing pressure until they drop what they're holding? Shoulder-checking them and running with them? I've just described subdual damage, tripping, grappling, disarming and bull-rushing. Do any of those sound like non-violent actions?
The_Normal_Anomaly 10-17-06, 07:03 PM	Would you consider punching someone in the face non-violent? How about kicking them in the back of the knee? How about putting them in a chokehold and throwing them to the floor? Twisting their arm and applying agonizing pressure until they drop what they're holding? Shoulder-checking them and running with them? I've just described subdual damage, tripping, grappling, disarming and bull-rushing. Do any of those sound like non-violent actions? CryoSilver FTW! :ayyyy!: I think that the Vow of Non-Violence allwoing you to do subdual is there to keep your ability to fight on some level. After all D&D is a game that tends to be centered on combat, and someone who can't fight will be seen as inferior. There are exceptions, as always, but the normal character in D&D is expected to be able to cause grievous harm to others. In the end, dealing damage of any kind is violent.
Dolomite 10-17-06, 09:20 PM	It allows your character to be still functional by not killing the enemy, just neutralizing them. Cause past a certain level if you wont fight and the party is getting into situations that can be deadly, you just took a feat that just made your character a liability for the whole party.
pyropetey9 10-18-06, 12:07 AM	the text of the feat specifically states that you may deal nonlethal damage. while the means of dealing it do seem violent, you have to keep in mind that these campaigns take place in a world where killing is commonplace. therefore, subduing and imprisoning an enemy is nonviolent by comparison. however, if you choose to play a character who is a pacifist, that's entirely your call. it will be difficult at points, but it will also have its rewards. best of luck, whatever you choose.
Godzilla 10-18-06, 12:22 AM	Would you consider punching someone in the face non-violent? How about kicking them in the back of the knee? How about putting them in a chokehold and throwing them to the floor? Twisting their arm and applying agonizing pressure until they drop what they're holding? Shoulder-checking them and running with them? I've just described subdual damage, tripping, grappling, disarming and bull-rushing. Do any of those sound like non-violent actions? Nice way to put it. I couldn't have said it any better.
DigitalMage 10-18-06, 07:13 AM	It could be argued that Grappling could be used in a non-violent way (in terms of intention), e.g. to prevent someone immune to the calming emotions from attacking anyone else, or to prevent someone not in control of their actions from injuring themselves.
Kradlo 10-18-06, 10:52 AM	In the end, the GM is ultimately the one to make the call. If he chooses that interpretation of the effect, that's the one to go with. The thing to remember is that calm emotions has a Will save to resist its effects. Any aggressive act on or damage dealt to a calmed creature immediately breaks the effect on all affected creatures (PHB, pg 207). Thus, even if your character has the Vow of Peace, he can't necessarily depend on that calming aura to protect him. He may have to act in his own defense, but will use nonlethal means to do so.
isilion 10-20-06, 02:42 AM	Ok, a question about this, when do you have to take the save Vs calm emotion? every round? and if someone attacks you, it is broken, for a round, for the combat, or until next day? And does the character with the vow of peace have to take the save against his ability?
Cifer 10-20-06, 09:22 AM	Ok, a question about this, when do you have to take the save Vs calm emotion? every round? and if someone attacks you, it is broken, for a round, for the combat, or until next day? And does the character with the vow of peace have to take the save against his ability? It's said right in the description of the feat... The save is made once, the result is applied as long as the person is inside the range. The spell is broken when the person is attacked, most probably until it reenters the aura. By RAW, the peacer is affected by his own aura.