Camping with casters [Archive] - Wizards Community

Camping with casters [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Malibu Trojan
06-22-05, 03:39 AM We're on the way to the gnoll lair, which is a three day journey. The gnolls like to attack at night, as do a small handful of other creatures of the plains. We fudged the rules while we were playing, but I later realized that everytime our cleric and/or druid cast a spell, they lost that spell for the next day. We didn't have any arcane casters at the time, but the circumstances are worse for a wizard.

What strategies do you employ when you have to travel for several days (we didn't have any magical means of transportation) and must camp with casters, being weary of threats?
Maerdash
06-22-05, 03:48 AM It depends on the party level in my experience, at lower levels its pretty hard to do anything about being attacked in the night. Around 8th level a wizard can nullify such problems just by using the rope trick spell. All in all about the only way to deal with it is to find a secure place to sleep and look for creative ways to stay out of battle during your rest breaks.
Derren S.
06-22-05, 03:48 AM While it doesn't answer your question, relize that divine caster don't need to rest 8 hours to prepare spells. They just need to pray for 1 hour at the right time.
Kheldren
06-22-05, 05:49 AM While it doesn't answer your question, realize that divine caster don't need to rest 8 hours to prepare spells. They just need to pray for 1 hour at the right time.
True - but for all casters, any spell cast in the 8 hours before they regain spells cannot be regained that night (or whatever). So if you get a pre-dawn attack, any spell used is a spell slot unavailable the next day...
It's one reason that attacks often happen then :(
Nom
06-22-05, 05:49 AM While it doesn't answer your question, relize that divine caster don't need to rest 8 hours to prepare spells. They just need to pray for 1 hour at the right time.But the 8 hour "prior casting" limit still applies.

Basically, your only option is to use tactics that minimise spell use (or to accept that you'll use the slots only once per 2 days).
Cymraegmorgan
06-22-05, 05:54 AM If you are in an area where attacks are more prone to happen at night, camp during the day, travel by night.
Lacloix
06-22-05, 09:34 AM It all depends on the party breakdown. In general, arcane spellcasters get first watch (as they need the 8 hours rest). Divine casters get second watch, and non-casters have last watch.

Our current party is average sized with a Fighter, Sorceror, Rogue, Cleric, and Bard. The Sorc and Bard get first watch, the Cleric gets second watch, and the Fighter and Rogue gets third watch.

Of course, this means we have to rest for 12 hours a night, so everyone gets 8 hours rest. However, when travelling distances, we're rarely in the kind of rush where the extra 4 hours makes much of a difference.
Nom
06-22-05, 09:55 AM If you are in an area where attacks are more prone to happen at night, camp during the day, travel by night.As long as you don't mind the extra risks of night travel (a lot easier to be ambushed) and having your sleep patterns mucked about, this works for arcane casters. Divine casters are locked to a particular daily event (dawn, dusk, midday, midnight, ...), and thus moving the rest period doesn't gain them anything with respect to the 8 hour limit.
Ragey
06-22-05, 03:47 PM Pick a time in the day in which you are required to search. If you have a minimum of 2 arcane casters in a 5-6 party group, you should have your casters carry bows for now on and work on that for nightly attacks. Thats the best I can tell you.
KoboldSlayer
06-22-05, 03:54 PM If you have a ranger, druid, or someone else that is an outdoor-type, have him use his "survival" skill to determine a good campsite. Then, have the character with survival set about "hiding" your campsite...more than just the obvious "don't light a fire", have him set up some camoflage such as sticks, blankets the same color as the leaves, etc. If your DM is generous, you may not get any encounters. If your DM is not...it might at least decrease the chance of random encounters, though anything that is planned will still find you.

Since you probably will still get some encounters, get your rogue (or anyone else with craft: trapmaking) to set up some traps. Pitfalls, snares, and the like are excellent. You may even be able to substitute survival (since hunters use these tactics) or disable device (since they know how traps work) for the craft: trapmaking if your DM is nice. At the VERY least, set up an alarm (it could be a magical "alarm" spell, but some string with small bells on it works just as well) around the campsite. If the fighter-types are alerted and are not caught unawares by something sneaking up, it's less likely that the casters will have to get involved other than shooting a few bows.
Malibu Trojan
06-22-05, 06:26 PM These are all great ideas. Unfotunately our DM was fairly obstinate about not letting us avoid his random encounters. The Spot and Listen skills were not used at all to determine when we became aware or when our opponents did, and when we asked if we could camp in underbrush to hide ourselves, he resisted pretty plainly. Oh well. We ended up camping in the day (as someone suggested) and traveling at night, but I think even then we fudged some of the rules.

The traps and Survival ideas seem delicious. How long does it take to build traps though? Where is this information?
AlRiKlv.3
06-22-05, 07:47 PM Since were really on the road my DM was really generous and gave us Magical Stones of Protection. So at night we dont need to worrie about that.
Lacloix
06-23-05, 09:52 AM Unfotunately our DM was fairly obstinate about not letting us avoid his random encounters. The Spot and Listen skills were not used at all to determine when we became aware or when our opponents did, and when we asked if we could camp in underbrush to hide ourselves, he resisted pretty plainly.

Then your DM is a railroading jackass...you can tell him I said that. :D
KoboldSlayer
06-23-05, 10:09 AM The traps and Survival ideas seem delicious. How long does it take to build traps though? Where is this information?

It's mainly up to the DM how long it would take. Realistically, it shouldn't take too long to build a simple thing like a snare or a pit trap and cover it with brush. (How long does it take to dig a hole as deep as you want it, for example? Less time if more people are helping.)

There is a way to figure out how long the craft skill takes to use, if you use craft: trapmaking. It is based on your craft skill vs. how much the trap costs. Since a trap costs next to nothing (sticks, leaves, rope, etc), it wouldn't be too long if you used those rules, but there are no fixed prices for woodland traps that I know of, so using the Craft skill checks vs. cost is still basically "up to your DM".

If the DM is really set on you just not avoiding or hindering his random encounters, no matter what you do...then it may not be possible to do so. (And I would say if you live somewhere with enough players to make another group possible, look for another DM. If you can't be creative or if he likes to railroad you into how he wants the game to go constantly, then it may not be much fun for you in the longrun.)
Dauntless
06-23-05, 11:49 AM Then your DM is a railroading jackass...you can tell him I said that. :D

Seconded, but you can leave it as just "is a jackass". No need to add additiona words.
Mirikon
06-23-05, 12:28 PM These are all great ideas. Unfotunately our DM was fairly obstinate about not letting us avoid his random encounters. The Spot and Listen skills were not used at all to determine when we became aware or when our opponents did, and when we asked if we could camp in underbrush to hide ourselves, he resisted pretty plainly. Oh well. We ended up camping in the day (as someone suggested) and traveling at night, but I think even then we fudged some of the rules.

The traps and Survival ideas seem delicious. How long does it take to build traps though? Where is this information?

Your DM needs a swift kick to the balls. And you can tell him I said that, too. :D
Quarterstaff
06-23-05, 08:33 PM a way at low levels my characters avoided night time attacks was we used to sleep in trees in hammocks. the trees made it so we were not imediatly seen, they also provided a distinct advantage in combat because the enemy had to climb to get us or shoot bows at us. the trees were usually trapped and alarmed by a none magical means.
KoboldSlayer
06-24-05, 02:57 PM a way at low levels my characters avoided night time attacks was we used to sleep in trees in hammocks. the trees made it so we were not imediatly seen, they also provided a distinct advantage in combat because the enemy had to climb to get us or shoot bows at us. the trees were usually trapped and alarmed by a none magical means.

A useful item for this is the Elven Tree Tent.
It is found in the Arms and Equipment Guide. p.26
braindead345
06-24-05, 03:12 PM Stick to traveling main roads as much as possible; with luck you will find inns, farmhouses, and shrines to rest at. If you do find a place, keep the fighters on guard watch. These places are notorious places for robbers and murders to do the party in.

Purchase a wagon & draft animals (mules work best because they will go into caves) and have the spell casters rest in the wagon with the provisions.

Leomund's Tiny Hut spell (Bard 3/ Wizard 3) works better than the Rope Trick spell. Perhaps you can find a wand with the spell. Just remember to have a bucket for the caster to use.

Take the day off from traveling. With luck the spell casters can rest and regain their spells. If encounters happen, the spell casters should not get involved unless absolutely needed.

Find a likely campsite and build a fire, make it look like it is in use, and move on (preferably up wind in case of forest fires). This decoy can draw the monsters away from the party. You do not need an out of control bonfire, just a simple cooking fire-low heat, but long burning.

Pass Without Trace is important. How do you think the monsters are finding your camps? Chances are they stumble across your trail and follow it to you.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Malibu Trojan 06-22-05, 03:39 AM	We're on the way to the gnoll lair, which is a three day journey. The gnolls like to attack at night, as do a small handful of other creatures of the plains. We fudged the rules while we were playing, but I later realized that everytime our cleric and/or druid cast a spell, they lost that spell for the next day. We didn't have any arcane casters at the time, but the circumstances are worse for a wizard. What strategies do you employ when you have to travel for several days (we didn't have any magical means of transportation) and must camp with casters, being weary of threats?
Maerdash 06-22-05, 03:48 AM	It depends on the party level in my experience, at lower levels its pretty hard to do anything about being attacked in the night. Around 8th level a wizard can nullify such problems just by using the rope trick spell. All in all about the only way to deal with it is to find a secure place to sleep and look for creative ways to stay out of battle during your rest breaks.
Derren S. 06-22-05, 03:48 AM	While it doesn't answer your question, relize that divine caster don't need to rest 8 hours to prepare spells. They just need to pray for 1 hour at the right time.
Kheldren 06-22-05, 05:49 AM	While it doesn't answer your question, realize that divine caster don't need to rest 8 hours to prepare spells. They just need to pray for 1 hour at the right time. True - but for all casters, any spell cast in the 8 hours before they regain spells cannot be regained that night (or whatever). So if you get a pre-dawn attack, any spell used is a spell slot unavailable the next day... It's one reason that attacks often happen then :(
Nom 06-22-05, 05:49 AM	While it doesn't answer your question, relize that divine caster don't need to rest 8 hours to prepare spells. They just need to pray for 1 hour at the right time.But the 8 hour "prior casting" limit still applies. Basically, your only option is to use tactics that minimise spell use (or to accept that you'll use the slots only once per 2 days).
Cymraegmorgan 06-22-05, 05:54 AM	If you are in an area where attacks are more prone to happen at night, camp during the day, travel by night.
Lacloix 06-22-05, 09:34 AM	It all depends on the party breakdown. In general, arcane spellcasters get first watch (as they need the 8 hours rest). Divine casters get second watch, and non-casters have last watch. Our current party is average sized with a Fighter, Sorceror, Rogue, Cleric, and Bard. The Sorc and Bard get first watch, the Cleric gets second watch, and the Fighter and Rogue gets third watch. Of course, this means we have to rest for 12 hours a night, so everyone gets 8 hours rest. However, when travelling distances, we're rarely in the kind of rush where the extra 4 hours makes much of a difference.
Nom 06-22-05, 09:55 AM	If you are in an area where attacks are more prone to happen at night, camp during the day, travel by night.As long as you don't mind the extra risks of night travel (a lot easier to be ambushed) and having your sleep patterns mucked about, this works for arcane casters. Divine casters are locked to a particular daily event (dawn, dusk, midday, midnight, ...), and thus moving the rest period doesn't gain them anything with respect to the 8 hour limit.
Ragey 06-22-05, 03:47 PM	Pick a time in the day in which you are required to search. If you have a minimum of 2 arcane casters in a 5-6 party group, you should have your casters carry bows for now on and work on that for nightly attacks. Thats the best I can tell you.
KoboldSlayer 06-22-05, 03:54 PM	If you have a ranger, druid, or someone else that is an outdoor-type, have him use his "survival" skill to determine a good campsite. Then, have the character with survival set about "hiding" your campsite...more than just the obvious "don't light a fire", have him set up some camoflage such as sticks, blankets the same color as the leaves, etc. If your DM is generous, you may not get any encounters. If your DM is not...it might at least decrease the chance of random encounters, though anything that is planned will still find you. Since you probably will still get some encounters, get your rogue (or anyone else with craft: trapmaking) to set up some traps. Pitfalls, snares, and the like are excellent. You may even be able to substitute survival (since hunters use these tactics) or disable device (since they know how traps work) for the craft: trapmaking if your DM is nice. At the VERY least, set up an alarm (it could be a magical "alarm" spell, but some string with small bells on it works just as well) around the campsite. If the fighter-types are alerted and are not caught unawares by something sneaking up, it's less likely that the casters will have to get involved other than shooting a few bows.
Malibu Trojan 06-22-05, 06:26 PM	These are all great ideas. Unfotunately our DM was fairly obstinate about not letting us avoid his random encounters. The Spot and Listen skills were not used at all to determine when we became aware or when our opponents did, and when we asked if we could camp in underbrush to hide ourselves, he resisted pretty plainly. Oh well. We ended up camping in the day (as someone suggested) and traveling at night, but I think even then we fudged some of the rules. The traps and Survival ideas seem delicious. How long does it take to build traps though? Where is this information?
AlRiKlv.3 06-22-05, 07:47 PM	Since were really on the road my DM was really generous and gave us Magical Stones of Protection. So at night we dont need to worrie about that.
Lacloix 06-23-05, 09:52 AM	Unfotunately our DM was fairly obstinate about not letting us avoid his random encounters. The Spot and Listen skills were not used at all to determine when we became aware or when our opponents did, and when we asked if we could camp in underbrush to hide ourselves, he resisted pretty plainly. Then your DM is a railroading jackass...you can tell him I said that. :D
KoboldSlayer 06-23-05, 10:09 AM	The traps and Survival ideas seem delicious. How long does it take to build traps though? Where is this information? It's mainly up to the DM how long it would take. Realistically, it shouldn't take too long to build a simple thing like a snare or a pit trap and cover it with brush. (How long does it take to dig a hole as deep as you want it, for example? Less time if more people are helping.) There is a way to figure out how long the craft skill takes to use, if you use craft: trapmaking. It is based on your craft skill vs. how much the trap costs. Since a trap costs next to nothing (sticks, leaves, rope, etc), it wouldn't be too long if you used those rules, but there are no fixed prices for woodland traps that I know of, so using the Craft skill checks vs. cost is still basically "up to your DM". If the DM is really set on you just not avoiding or hindering his random encounters, no matter what you do...then it may not be possible to do so. (And I would say if you live somewhere with enough players to make another group possible, look for another DM. If you can't be creative or if he likes to railroad you into how he wants the game to go constantly, then it may not be much fun for you in the longrun.)
Dauntless 06-23-05, 11:49 AM	Then your DM is a railroading jackass...you can tell him I said that. :D Seconded, but you can leave it as just "is a jackass". No need to add additiona words.
Mirikon 06-23-05, 12:28 PM	These are all great ideas. Unfotunately our DM was fairly obstinate about not letting us avoid his random encounters. The Spot and Listen skills were not used at all to determine when we became aware or when our opponents did, and when we asked if we could camp in underbrush to hide ourselves, he resisted pretty plainly. Oh well. We ended up camping in the day (as someone suggested) and traveling at night, but I think even then we fudged some of the rules. The traps and Survival ideas seem delicious. How long does it take to build traps though? Where is this information? Your DM needs a swift kick to the balls. And you can tell him I said that, too. :D
Quarterstaff 06-23-05, 08:33 PM	a way at low levels my characters avoided night time attacks was we used to sleep in trees in hammocks. the trees made it so we were not imediatly seen, they also provided a distinct advantage in combat because the enemy had to climb to get us or shoot bows at us. the trees were usually trapped and alarmed by a none magical means.
KoboldSlayer 06-24-05, 02:57 PM	a way at low levels my characters avoided night time attacks was we used to sleep in trees in hammocks. the trees made it so we were not imediatly seen, they also provided a distinct advantage in combat because the enemy had to climb to get us or shoot bows at us. the trees were usually trapped and alarmed by a none magical means. A useful item for this is the Elven Tree Tent. It is found in the Arms and Equipment Guide. p.26
braindead345 06-24-05, 03:12 PM	Stick to traveling main roads as much as possible; with luck you will find inns, farmhouses, and shrines to rest at. If you do find a place, keep the fighters on guard watch. These places are notorious places for robbers and murders to do the party in. Purchase a wagon & draft animals (mules work best because they will go into caves) and have the spell casters rest in the wagon with the provisions. Leomund's Tiny Hut spell (Bard 3/ Wizard 3) works better than the Rope Trick spell. Perhaps you can find a wand with the spell. Just remember to have a bucket for the caster to use. Take the day off from traveling. With luck the spell casters can rest and regain their spells. If encounters happen, the spell casters should not get involved unless absolutely needed. Find a likely campsite and build a fire, make it look like it is in use, and move on (preferably up wind in case of forest fires). This decoy can draw the monsters away from the party. You do not need an out of control bonfire, just a simple cooking fire-low heat, but long burning. Pass Without Trace is important. How do you think the monsters are finding your camps? Chances are they stumble across your trail and follow it to you.