Can someone explain 3.5 damage reduction to me [Archive] - Wizards Community

Can someone explain 3.5 damage reduction to me [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Sir_Jack_Sparrow
03-23-04, 06:31 PM I seriously dont get it, in 3.0 as far as i know a +5 weapon was the be all and end all, it bypassed silver, lawful, anything

is magic still the trump card in 3.5 DR? or would a +5 weapon be useless against somethign with lawful DR?
Lina_Inverse
03-23-04, 06:34 PM useless.a +5 weapon is completely useless,+5 was bad before but with the new DR rules its either +1(for magic) or +6(for epic)
Doomhawk
03-23-04, 07:29 PM Uh... Lina, I don't know about you... but in the games I play, that +5 to hit and damage is pretty significant.

Anyway, to answer the original question, no, magic is no longer the trump card. There is no 'hierarchy' of DR any more - DR of /lawful is not necessarily higher than DR of /magic.

To get through DR in 3.5, your weapon must have the qualities listed after the slash. Some examples:

/magic. Any weapon with at least a +1 enhancement bonus.
/silver. Any weapon made out of alchemical silver, or coated in silversheen (an item in the 3.5 DMG). Note that unlike 3.0, /silver DR is NOT bypassed by any magic weapon.
/lawful. Any weapon that is lawful-aligned can get through. A lawful-aligned weapon could be an intelligent item of lawful alignment, or have the axiomatic ability, or be wielded by certain outsiders. Monks can penetrate /lawful damage reduction with their unarmed strikes, once they reach a certain level.
/cold iron and evil. In order to get through this damage reduction, you have to have a weapon that is made out of cold iron, and that is evil-aligned (the Unholy quality, wielded by a demon, subject of the Align Weapon spell, whatever).

Note that out of all the above examples, a plain +5 sword with no other enchantments and not made out of any special material would only penetrate the /magic damage reduction.
Nom
03-23-04, 07:42 PM Originally posted by Sir_Jack_Sparrow
I seriously dont get it, in 3.0 as far as i know a +5 weapon was the be all and end all, it bypassed silver, lawful, anything

is magic still the trump card in 3.5 DR? or would a +5 weapon be useless against somethign with lawful DR?There's no DR hierarchy any more. You either match the exact requirement, or you suffer the DR. That said, most DR values are significantly reduced, so a non-DR-penetrating weapon isn't "useless", just "much weaker".
Lina_Inverse
03-23-04, 08:55 PM generally +1d6 elemental damage is better than +1 to hit and damage,if your worried about immunitys theres always holy,which works on 99% of monsters.

in addition said damages bypass DR as there not physical.
DM Zoc
03-23-04, 09:04 PM On the other hand, a dagger +1 shocking, chilling, flaming would deal, on average, 4 damage to a Tiefling; a +4 dagger would deal, on average, 6.5.
Lina_Inverse
03-23-04, 09:12 PM Originally posted by DM Zoc
On the other hand, a dagger +1 shocking, chilling, flaming would deal, on average, 4 damage to a Tiefling; a +4 dagger would deal, on average, 6.5.

rare as a tiefling is.i dont tend to fight tieflings as much as ohhhh actual monsters.

lets look at something common,say a dragon.i lose 1d6 cause hes fire immune(hes red) but gain 1d6 cause hes cold weak.see balences out

situational dosent make better,DR is way more common than elemental resistanses.
wdarkk
03-23-04, 09:28 PM How about an actual monster with 3 energy resistances and DR/magic. I imagine you could find many of those...
Lina_Inverse
03-23-04, 09:32 PM DR/magic i still break it.and do you mean fiends?well thanfully my weapon by then is holy while his is +5/something,fiends have DR/holy you know.
wdarkk
03-23-04, 10:10 PM No, I mean like the evil cleric's Fiendish Tyrannosaurus. I don't have the MM with me at the moment but I imagine I could find some more examples from the magical beasts.
Lina_Inverse
03-23-04, 10:13 PM Originally posted by wdarkk
No, I mean like the evil cleric's Fiendish Tyrannosaurus. I don't have the MM with me at the moment but I imagine I could find some more examples from the magical beasts.

you mean druid right?good get the party druid to talk it out,haveing the same religion should allow us to come to terms.or just nudge him towards someone messing with nature.
Sancus
03-23-04, 10:21 PM +1 attack is worth +2 damage (See weapon focus vs. weapon specialization), hence a +1 enhancement bonus is worth 3 damage, which is almost as much as an elemental damage enhancer... and it can't be resisted.
wdarkk
03-23-04, 10:26 PM I mean Cleric. Check the Summon Monster lists.

They've got 2 good elemental resistances and DR magic, as most large Celestial/Fiendish animals do.
DM Zoc
03-23-04, 11:14 PM Originally posted by Lina_Inverse
rare as a tiefling is.i dont tend to fight tieflings as much as ohhhh actual monsters.

lets look at something common,say a dragon.i lose 1d6 cause hes fire immune(hes red) but gain 1d6 cause hes cold weak.see balences out

HAHAHAHA!

That's probably the funniest thing I've read in a long time. You seriously want me to believe that you fight dragons more often than tieflings?
Lina_Inverse
03-24-04, 01:01 AM Originally posted by Sancus
+1 attack is worth +2 damage (See weapon focus vs. weapon specialization), hence a +1 enhancement bonus is worth 3 damage, which is almost as much as an elemental damage enhancer... and it can't be resisted.

no it isnt,+1 dmg is worth more than +1to hit.weapon spec is A.a fighter ONLY feat(you know that class that no one plays?) B.has weapon focus as a preq C.is to recreate the old weapon spec which was +1/+2 and ONLY fighters could get it
Lina_Inverse
03-24-04, 01:03 AM Originally posted by DM Zoc
HAHAHAHA!

That's probably the funniest thing I've read in a long time. You seriously want me to believe that you fight dragons more often than tieflings?

considering ive never actully fought a tiefling,by definition YES.i dont fight classed npcs often,most dms realize they die before the might of clerics and save or die.since they have crappy crappy fort saves.
wdarkk
03-24-04, 01:14 AM +1 to hit is worth +2 damage. In fact, for a Frenzied Berserker, it's worth +4 damage. Pretty much any fighter that isn't going TWF or Duelist should have power attack. It might as well be a class feature. Fighter level 1 gives power attack.
Lina_Inverse
03-24-04, 01:19 AM according to power attack it is +1.are you talking about the two handed PA?well sadly every physical attacker ive ever seen went TWF for the sneak attack dice....its not like people play pure fighters.

i see rogues,clerics,wizards and druids.even before those classes were the best choices thats what my group played so we have very very effective partys ;)
Eldren
03-24-04, 01:32 AM In an attempt to recapture some of the glory days of 1st Edition, they've changed Damage Reduction into something like it used to be, where according to popular mythology (which Gary Gygax drew on quite heavily in constructing the 1st Edition Monster Manual), certain types of materials could do damage to certain kind of monsters that were undamageable by standard means. Lycanthopes could be damaged by silver, cold iron was used against fey and devils, etc.

The problem I have with the 3.5 Damage Reduction system is this: A Paladin can come along with a +5 longsword and lay the smack down on a devil, but if the weapon isn't also cold iron, 5+ points of damage are ignored by the devil. Meanwhile, for whatever reasons, Mr. 1st level Commoner comes along with a non-magical cold iron sword, and deals full damage to the devil.

Personally, although I haven't implemented it in my campaigns yet, I want to find a happy medium, which is most likely to take the shape of certain enhancement bonuses equalling certain kinds of materials for the purpose of damage reduction. It just makes no sense to me that a +5 weapon is going to lose all of that +5 to damage because the weapon isn't also made of the appropriate material, but a non-magical weapon of the appropriate material deals full damage.

Realistically, my current Paladin isn't hurting. She's wielding a cold iron Holy Evil Outsider Bane greataxe +1, and because of her "Sanctify Martial Strike" feat, all of her melee attacks are considered Good aligned. This means she's only going to be thwarted by silver, Lawful and adamantine-based Damage Reduction; for the latter, she's carrying a non-magical greataxe made from adamantite. But I've spent quite a bit of her cash getting her current greataxe to the point it's at (perhaps I should have just made her into a Kensai, and worried about spending XP instead...), so it's worth it.
wdarkk
03-24-04, 01:47 AM Originally posted by Lina_Inverse
according to power attack it is +1.are you talking about the two handed PA?well sadly every physical attacker ive ever seen went TWF for the sneak attack dice....its not like people play pure fighters.

I'm not talking about fighters. I'm talking about Barbarians - I see quite a lot of those. Besides, a melee cleric also will often use a TH weapon. I know, I've got a melee cleric in my group who power attacks with a weapon in two hands all the time.
Lina_Inverse
03-24-04, 01:52 AM melee clerics,ok noted.most of my clerics tend to fill the whitemage role more than the out fight the fighters role simply by personal play prefrence.

besides kat has a better weapon,its name is staus.
Lawless
03-24-04, 07:26 AM Actually the DR system is one of the few things I like about 3.5. It challenges PC's to think outside the box, and kind of leashes munkining. It seemed for a while every PC had a +5 hackmaster special weapon, that could whup up on anything. One loop hole in both 3.0 and 3.5 versions, the Cleric Quintet character Cadderly has Oil of Impact, add 1d6 force damage, no creature I read so far has immunity to it. Change the oil into a spell effect, viola. Not everythin can be solve by putting a extra + to a weapon. Plus in changing DR the creatures with ridiculous DR and now curved down to something more achievable. A creature with DR 50/+5 is unreal even in a high magic world a +5 weapon to me should still be rare. Except for the Epic DR I like it, Epic DR means that none of the deities printed can damage a creature with Epic DR, their weapons are all ONLY?!? +5. In that respect someone tried too hard. my 2 cps.
Lina_Inverse
03-24-04, 12:52 PM +5 weapons arent rare at all,you should have much much better than +5 at level 20.

as for epic DR and deitys only at +5,for one deitys arent omnipotent in addition to the fact that well sheesh with that much magic weapons are for show.well of course theres the obvious fact ohhhh i dunno the fact the elh is diffrent from the deity book(and wasnt even out,but now epic is in the SRD and core books so all good)
DM Zoc
03-24-04, 12:55 PM Originally posted by Lina_Inverse
+5 weapons arent rare at all,you should have much much better than +5 at level 20.

Now you win "funniest quote of the day".
Lina_Inverse
03-24-04, 12:57 PM Originally posted by DM Zoc
Now you win "funniest quote of the day".

not actual +6 tohit/dmg weapons i ment +6 or greater in pluses and abilitys >_< well if your a fighter type.
Beamup
03-24-04, 01:01 PM Originally posted by Lina_Inverse
not actual +6 tohit/dmg weapons i ment +6 or greater in pluses and abilitys >_< well if your a fighter type.

But "level 20 characters have it" doesn't mean it's not rare - given that level 20 characters are EXTREMELY rare.
Lawless
03-24-04, 01:33 PM Exactly I don't have the books on me right now but a 20th level character should be like 1 in a 100,000 at best. And massive magic weapons should be just as rare, if not moreso. Not every paladin should be able to get their hands on a holy avenger. While it's true the Deities book came out before the ELH there's been more than enough time to update and change the stats so that deities did have epic weapons but they haven't. Which to me means that their mortals walking around with weapons more powerful than the gods they 'worship'. In regards to more than +5 total enhancements and abilities, sure I could see a 20th level character A weapon above 5, like that.
Nom
03-24-04, 06:21 PM Originally posted by Eldren
It just makes no sense to me that a +5 weapon is going to lose all of that +5 to damage because the weapon isn't also made of the appropriate material, but a non-magical weapon of the appropriate material deals full damage.First, the weapon doesn't "lose all that +5 to damage". A +5 weapon will still do +5 better than a normal version of the weapon (remember that 3.5 DR no longer approximates invulnerable). It just might not work as well as a weapon built of an especially effective material. Otherwise, the same logic could argue that a +5 weapon should be better than a +1 bane weapon, or that it's ridiculous that someone who can drink a litre of water should die from drinking a few millilitres of poison.

But perhaps another view: Is a +5 spear of pointyness first and foremost a +5 weapon or a spear? In 3.0, it was a +5 weapon that happened to be spear-shaped. In 3.5, it's an enhanced spear.

Consider a skeleton with DR 5/bludgeoning. Essentially, you're attacking a cage. Smashing the cage is good. Trying to poke holes in the cage is, well, less effective. {Let's ignore the fact that most slashing weapons are, by nature, at least partly bludgeoning}

So, you poke the skeleton with your massively glowing magic spear. Problem is, it's still a spear, and you're still trying to damage this cage by poking more holes in it. You poke a lot more effectively than if your spear wasn't magic, but it's still not an optimal technique. Then Grog the Half-Orc turns up with his non-magical greatclub and knocks the skeleton into separate pieces. It's not magic, but it's a lot better optimised for smashing cages.

Under 3.0 rules, all that mattered would be the magic. Your +1 spear is no less effective than a +1 mace. Why does the magic enhancement suddenly make the skeleton vulnerable to having holes poked in it?

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Sir_Jack_Sparrow 03-23-04, 06:31 PM	I seriously dont get it, in 3.0 as far as i know a +5 weapon was the be all and end all, it bypassed silver, lawful, anything is magic still the trump card in 3.5 DR? or would a +5 weapon be useless against somethign with lawful DR?
Lina_Inverse 03-23-04, 06:34 PM	useless.a +5 weapon is completely useless,+5 was bad before but with the new DR rules its either +1(for magic) or +6(for epic)
Doomhawk 03-23-04, 07:29 PM	Uh... Lina, I don't know about you... but in the games I play, that +5 to hit and damage is pretty significant. Anyway, to answer the original question, no, magic is no longer the trump card. There is no 'hierarchy' of DR any more - DR of /lawful is not necessarily higher than DR of /magic. To get through DR in 3.5, your weapon must have the qualities listed after the slash. Some examples: /magic. Any weapon with at least a +1 enhancement bonus. /silver. Any weapon made out of alchemical silver, or coated in silversheen (an item in the 3.5 DMG). Note that unlike 3.0, /silver DR is NOT bypassed by any magic weapon. /lawful. Any weapon that is lawful-aligned can get through. A lawful-aligned weapon could be an intelligent item of lawful alignment, or have the axiomatic ability, or be wielded by certain outsiders. Monks can penetrate /lawful damage reduction with their unarmed strikes, once they reach a certain level. /cold iron and evil. In order to get through this damage reduction, you have to have a weapon that is made out of cold iron, and that is evil-aligned (the Unholy quality, wielded by a demon, subject of the Align Weapon spell, whatever). Note that out of all the above examples, a plain +5 sword with no other enchantments and not made out of any special material would only penetrate the /magic damage reduction.
Nom 03-23-04, 07:42 PM	Originally posted by Sir_Jack_Sparrow I seriously dont get it, in 3.0 as far as i know a +5 weapon was the be all and end all, it bypassed silver, lawful, anything is magic still the trump card in 3.5 DR? or would a +5 weapon be useless against somethign with lawful DR?There's no DR hierarchy any more. You either match the exact requirement, or you suffer the DR. That said, most DR values are significantly reduced, so a non-DR-penetrating weapon isn't "useless", just "much weaker".
Lina_Inverse 03-23-04, 08:55 PM	generally +1d6 elemental damage is better than +1 to hit and damage,if your worried about immunitys theres always holy,which works on 99% of monsters. in addition said damages bypass DR as there not physical.
DM Zoc 03-23-04, 09:04 PM	On the other hand, a dagger +1 shocking, chilling, flaming would deal, on average, 4 damage to a Tiefling; a +4 dagger would deal, on average, 6.5.
Lina_Inverse 03-23-04, 09:12 PM	Originally posted by DM Zoc On the other hand, a dagger +1 shocking, chilling, flaming would deal, on average, 4 damage to a Tiefling; a +4 dagger would deal, on average, 6.5. rare as a tiefling is.i dont tend to fight tieflings as much as ohhhh actual monsters. lets look at something common,say a dragon.i lose 1d6 cause hes fire immune(hes red) but gain 1d6 cause hes cold weak.see balences out situational dosent make better,DR is way more common than elemental resistanses.
wdarkk 03-23-04, 09:28 PM	How about an actual monster with 3 energy resistances and DR/magic. I imagine you could find many of those...
Lina_Inverse 03-23-04, 09:32 PM	DR/magic i still break it.and do you mean fiends?well thanfully my weapon by then is holy while his is +5/something,fiends have DR/holy you know.
wdarkk 03-23-04, 10:10 PM	No, I mean like the evil cleric's Fiendish Tyrannosaurus. I don't have the MM with me at the moment but I imagine I could find some more examples from the magical beasts.
Lina_Inverse 03-23-04, 10:13 PM	Originally posted by wdarkk No, I mean like the evil cleric's Fiendish Tyrannosaurus. I don't have the MM with me at the moment but I imagine I could find some more examples from the magical beasts. you mean druid right?good get the party druid to talk it out,haveing the same religion should allow us to come to terms.or just nudge him towards someone messing with nature.
Sancus 03-23-04, 10:21 PM	+1 attack is worth +2 damage (See weapon focus vs. weapon specialization), hence a +1 enhancement bonus is worth 3 damage, which is almost as much as an elemental damage enhancer... and it can't be resisted.
wdarkk 03-23-04, 10:26 PM	I mean Cleric. Check the Summon Monster lists. They've got 2 good elemental resistances and DR magic, as most large Celestial/Fiendish animals do.
DM Zoc 03-23-04, 11:14 PM	Originally posted by Lina_Inverse rare as a tiefling is.i dont tend to fight tieflings as much as ohhhh actual monsters. lets look at something common,say a dragon.i lose 1d6 cause hes fire immune(hes red) but gain 1d6 cause hes cold weak.see balences out HAHAHAHA! That's probably the funniest thing I've read in a long time. You seriously want me to believe that you fight dragons more often than tieflings?
Lina_Inverse 03-24-04, 01:01 AM	Originally posted by Sancus +1 attack is worth +2 damage (See weapon focus vs. weapon specialization), hence a +1 enhancement bonus is worth 3 damage, which is almost as much as an elemental damage enhancer... and it can't be resisted. no it isnt,+1 dmg is worth more than +1to hit.weapon spec is A.a fighter ONLY feat(you know that class that no one plays?) B.has weapon focus as a preq C.is to recreate the old weapon spec which was +1/+2 and ONLY fighters could get it
Lina_Inverse 03-24-04, 01:03 AM	Originally posted by DM Zoc HAHAHAHA! That's probably the funniest thing I've read in a long time. You seriously want me to believe that you fight dragons more often than tieflings? considering ive never actully fought a tiefling,by definition YES.i dont fight classed npcs often,most dms realize they die before the might of clerics and save or die.since they have crappy crappy fort saves.
wdarkk 03-24-04, 01:14 AM	+1 to hit is worth +2 damage. In fact, for a Frenzied Berserker, it's worth +4 damage. Pretty much any fighter that isn't going TWF or Duelist should have power attack. It might as well be a class feature. Fighter level 1 gives power attack.
Lina_Inverse 03-24-04, 01:19 AM	according to power attack it is +1.are you talking about the two handed PA?well sadly every physical attacker ive ever seen went TWF for the sneak attack dice....its not like people play pure fighters. i see rogues,clerics,wizards and druids.even before those classes were the best choices thats what my group played so we have very very effective partys ;)
Eldren 03-24-04, 01:32 AM	In an attempt to recapture some of the glory days of 1st Edition, they've changed Damage Reduction into something like it used to be, where according to popular mythology (which Gary Gygax drew on quite heavily in constructing the 1st Edition Monster Manual), certain types of materials could do damage to certain kind of monsters that were undamageable by standard means. Lycanthopes could be damaged by silver, cold iron was used against fey and devils, etc. The problem I have with the 3.5 Damage Reduction system is this: A Paladin can come along with a +5 longsword and lay the smack down on a devil, but if the weapon isn't also cold iron, 5+ points of damage are ignored by the devil. Meanwhile, for whatever reasons, Mr. 1st level Commoner comes along with a non-magical cold iron sword, and deals full damage to the devil. Personally, although I haven't implemented it in my campaigns yet, I want to find a happy medium, which is most likely to take the shape of certain enhancement bonuses equalling certain kinds of materials for the purpose of damage reduction. It just makes no sense to me that a +5 weapon is going to lose all of that +5 to damage because the weapon isn't also made of the appropriate material, but a non-magical weapon of the appropriate material deals full damage. Realistically, my current Paladin isn't hurting. She's wielding a cold iron Holy Evil Outsider Bane greataxe +1, and because of her "Sanctify Martial Strike" feat, all of her melee attacks are considered Good aligned. This means she's only going to be thwarted by silver, Lawful and adamantine-based Damage Reduction; for the latter, she's carrying a non-magical greataxe made from adamantite. But I've spent quite a bit of her cash getting her current greataxe to the point it's at (perhaps I should have just made her into a Kensai, and worried about spending XP instead...), so it's worth it.
wdarkk 03-24-04, 01:47 AM	Originally posted by Lina_Inverse according to power attack it is +1.are you talking about the two handed PA?well sadly every physical attacker ive ever seen went TWF for the sneak attack dice....its not like people play pure fighters. I'm not talking about fighters. I'm talking about Barbarians - I see quite a lot of those. Besides, a melee cleric also will often use a TH weapon. I know, I've got a melee cleric in my group who power attacks with a weapon in two hands all the time.
Lina_Inverse 03-24-04, 01:52 AM	melee clerics,ok noted.most of my clerics tend to fill the whitemage role more than the out fight the fighters role simply by personal play prefrence. besides kat has a better weapon,its name is staus.
Lawless 03-24-04, 07:26 AM	Actually the DR system is one of the few things I like about 3.5. It challenges PC's to think outside the box, and kind of leashes munkining. It seemed for a while every PC had a +5 hackmaster special weapon, that could whup up on anything. One loop hole in both 3.0 and 3.5 versions, the Cleric Quintet character Cadderly has Oil of Impact, add 1d6 force damage, no creature I read so far has immunity to it. Change the oil into a spell effect, viola. Not everythin can be solve by putting a extra + to a weapon. Plus in changing DR the creatures with ridiculous DR and now curved down to something more achievable. A creature with DR 50/+5 is unreal even in a high magic world a +5 weapon to me should still be rare. Except for the Epic DR I like it, Epic DR means that none of the deities printed can damage a creature with Epic DR, their weapons are all ONLY?!? +5. In that respect someone tried too hard. my 2 cps.
Lina_Inverse 03-24-04, 12:52 PM	+5 weapons arent rare at all,you should have much much better than +5 at level 20. as for epic DR and deitys only at +5,for one deitys arent omnipotent in addition to the fact that well sheesh with that much magic weapons are for show.well of course theres the obvious fact ohhhh i dunno the fact the elh is diffrent from the deity book(and wasnt even out,but now epic is in the SRD and core books so all good)
DM Zoc 03-24-04, 12:55 PM	Originally posted by Lina_Inverse +5 weapons arent rare at all,you should have much much better than +5 at level 20. Now you win "funniest quote of the day".
Lina_Inverse 03-24-04, 12:57 PM	Originally posted by DM Zoc Now you win "funniest quote of the day". not actual +6 tohit/dmg weapons i ment +6 or greater in pluses and abilitys >_< well if your a fighter type.
Beamup 03-24-04, 01:01 PM	Originally posted by Lina_Inverse not actual +6 tohit/dmg weapons i ment +6 or greater in pluses and abilitys >_< well if your a fighter type. But "level 20 characters have it" doesn't mean it's not rare - given that level 20 characters are EXTREMELY rare.
Lawless 03-24-04, 01:33 PM	Exactly I don't have the books on me right now but a 20th level character should be like 1 in a 100,000 at best. And massive magic weapons should be just as rare, if not moreso. Not every paladin should be able to get their hands on a holy avenger. While it's true the Deities book came out before the ELH there's been more than enough time to update and change the stats so that deities did have epic weapons but they haven't. Which to me means that their mortals walking around with weapons more powerful than the gods they 'worship'. In regards to more than +5 total enhancements and abilities, sure I could see a 20th level character A weapon above 5, like that.
Nom 03-24-04, 06:21 PM	Originally posted by Eldren It just makes no sense to me that a +5 weapon is going to lose all of that +5 to damage because the weapon isn't also made of the appropriate material, but a non-magical weapon of the appropriate material deals full damage.First, the weapon doesn't "lose all that +5 to damage". A +5 weapon will still do +5 better than a normal version of the weapon (remember that 3.5 DR no longer approximates invulnerable). It just might not work as well as a weapon built of an especially effective material. Otherwise, the same logic could argue that a +5 weapon should be better than a +1 bane weapon, or that it's ridiculous that someone who can drink a litre of water should die from drinking a few millilitres of poison. But perhaps another view: Is a +5 spear of pointyness first and foremost a +5 weapon or a spear? In 3.0, it was a +5 weapon that happened to be spear-shaped. In 3.5, it's an enhanced spear. Consider a skeleton with DR 5/bludgeoning. Essentially, you're attacking a cage. Smashing the cage is good. Trying to poke holes in the cage is, well, less effective. {Let's ignore the fact that most slashing weapons are, by nature, at least partly bludgeoning} So, you poke the skeleton with your massively glowing magic spear. Problem is, it's still a spear, and you're still trying to damage this cage by poking more holes in it. You poke a lot more effectively than if your spear wasn't magic, but it's still not an optimal technique. Then Grog the Half-Orc turns up with his non-magical greatclub and knocks the skeleton into separate pieces. It's not magic, but it's a lot better optimised for smashing cages. Under 3.0 rules, all that mattered would be the magic. Your +1 spear is no less effective than a +1 mace. Why does the magic enhancement suddenly make the skeleton vulnerable to having holes poked in it?