Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Cravin 04-21-08, 04:51 AM	One of my old D&D groups are relocating to my area. They all agreed that they want me to join the game. Tthis is great because I haven't gotten to play a decent game in a while. My dilemma is this: I am the most indecisive D&D player ever. I cannot choose what I want to be. I've played just about everything that he allows, and I just can't decide. The party consists of the following They will more likely than not be 4th level when they arrive, Possibly 5th. The party consists of: Human artificer Human Cleric Halfling Warlock The DM is pretty fair and allows most books, excluding Forgotten realms stuff and most Dragon Magazine stuff. It is really more of a "consult the dm" situation, but in general, No forgotten realms, and mostly no Dragon mag. I kind of wanted to play something with a little flair. Something interesting and fun. I would like to have a full BaB, but it isn't necessary. I was thinking either Crusader or Hexblade. After looking at the Hexblade guide Hexblade could be fun, but I really in general dislike spells. I like the curse ability, it's the flair I am looking for, but it comes with the spell casting, and sure, I could NOT spell cast, but thats just dumb. Crusader is next on the list of something with flair. I actually have an idea for a Desert dwarf Crusader. The idea was built around the 'haha nothing you can do works' idea, not sure if something like this exists already, But I figure, with Mettle, a ring of evasion, A dwarf (+2 on saves vs spells) with a dip into Paladin 2 (Divine Grace) Plus Battle plate and PrC into Deepwarden for the "Stone warden" ability to add my Con to my AC instead of dex, then, maybe later going into dwarven defender. But like I said, its just an idea. I want something with flair, So really what I am asking is for some class/race/build suggestions that may spark my interest. Anything YOU specifically think is interesting and fun. Remember I am starting at level 4 and this game is a long drawn out 'all the way to 20' game. Thanks to anyone who replies. I know I tend to ramble : X
RobbyPants 04-21-08, 09:24 AM	I'll cast my vote for crusader. If you have a DM that allows ToB, and you're looking for a full BAB class with flair, I'd say that makes the crusader and warblade prime candidates. If you go to the Character Optimization boards (http://forums.gleemax.com/forumdisplay.php?f=339), they can do a good job helping you flesh out the details if you want. Just make sure to give enough information so they can help out. ;)
RPJesus 04-21-08, 12:23 PM	What about a monk? In like 2 levels you'd be able to be a drunken master, or a tattooed monk, both of which look sexy.
DrMorganes 04-21-08, 03:52 PM	Could you elaborate a bit on "desert dwarf Crusader"? Is this: a desert dwarf (Unearthed Arcana racial adjustment) with Crusader levels? a PHB-standard dwarf with Crusader levels focusing on Desert Wind maneuvers? (Not possible, by the way; only Swordsages have access to Desert Wind maneuvers.) a PHB-standard dwarf with Crusader levels who comes from a desert? I recommend against the hexblade. The save DC on their curse ability is too low; level-appropriate encounters will resist it more often than not. Crusader makes a nice divine warrior that doesn't require several rounds of buff time. I dislike the randomness of their maneuver refresh, as it makes for a lot of bookkeeping. If you go this route, put your maneuvers on some form of cardstock. Shuffle, deal, and discard as necessary to take a load off your DM. Warblades make nice INT-based fighters that are in many ways what that I think Fighters have always wanted to be. Biggest HD type, full BAB, nice armor, shields, class features that actually mean something, and martial maneuvers that can pack a whallop. Just be sure to hammer out the specifics of Iron Heart Surge before you get too far into things... It's one of only two very poorly worded maneuvers in ToB.
Shadowshimmer 04-21-08, 05:34 PM	If played creatively, a Swashbuckler can have a lot of flair and charisma. Why not try something like that with a Pirate or Renegade feel? A Bard can also have a lot of flair.
Lincoln Hills 04-21-08, 05:35 PM	Play a human fighter. No, seriously. I know his abilities aren't new (and therefore 'better' in some mysterious way... doesn't "newer=better" suggest that power creep is occurring and game balance isn't?), but a fighter is welcome in any party. And the flair, you provide yourself: it's more a matter of player enthusiasm than the abilities given to you by your class.
runestar 04-21-08, 11:09 PM	And the flair, you provide yourself: it's more a matter of player enthusiasm than the abilities given to you by your class. Ideally, your flair can also be supported by your abilities, so that when you narrate what you are doing, your PC is also going through the motions. Looking at your party, they do appear to lack a dedicated melee combatant of sorts, so I suppose a warblade or crusader (or a mix of both - crusader8/warblade1 is fairly popular) should fit in just nicely. Their strikes and counters easily give you ample opportunities to narrate your capabilities. Ditto for avoiding hexblade like the plague, it is just too weak.
Cravin 04-22-08, 01:14 AM	Could you elaborate a bit on "desert dwarf Crusader"? Is this: a desert dwarf (Unearthed Arcana racial adjustment) with Crusader levels? a PHB-standard dwarf with Crusader levels focusing on Desert Wind maneuvers? (Not possible, by the way; only Swordsages have access to Desert Wind maneuvers.) a PHB-standard dwarf with Crusader levels who comes from a desert? I recommend against the hexblade. The save DC on their curse ability is too low; level-appropriate encounters will resist it more often than not. Crusader makes a nice divine warrior that doesn't require several rounds of buff time. I dislike the randomness of their maneuver refresh, as it makes for a lot of bookkeeping. If you go this route, put your maneuvers on some form of cardstock. Shuffle, deal, and discard as necessary to take a load off your DM. Warblades make nice INT-based fighters that are in many ways what that I think Fighters have always wanted to be. Biggest HD type, full BAB, nice armor, shields, class features that actually mean something, and martial maneuvers that can pack a whallop. Just be sure to hammer out the specifics of Iron Heart Surge before you get too far into things... It's one of only two very poorly worded maneuvers in ToB. a desert dwarf (Unearthed Arcana racial adjustment) with Crusader levels. Sorry, should have been more specific.
ravenshrike 04-22-08, 02:38 AM	A duskblade/WB gnome with prestidigitation and dancing lights as his 0-levels. Technically not RAW, but not game-breaking in any sense. Lot's of flair.
kelvinaw273 04-22-08, 07:52 AM	Well, looking at that arrangement what do they lack? Wilderness skills Skills generally Melee capacity To stop all of those gaps, I'd go Ranger. It may not be the powergamer's choice, but it's a good option if you mix it a little, maybe take Scout as well and go Swifthunter.
Mercurius 04-22-08, 08:47 AM	If you're looking for flair, I suggest this: Human Swashbuckler 1/Scout 1/Swash+2/Fighter2/Dervish x Feats: EWP: Kusari-Gama (DMG) Two Weapon Fighting Weapon Focus: Kusari-Gama Dodge Mobility Weapon Finesse (Swash Bonus) Combat Expertise With Dervish Dance and two finessed reach weapons that each deal an additional 1d6 damage and your INT while moving more than 10 feet, you become something of a mobile death machine. It's got some weaknesses against undead, constructs, and elementals, but against other things, it just dances circles around them and brings the hurt. That was a fun character. Ideally, you could go Scout at first level - the only reason I didn't was because I needed EWP ASAP to work with my concept, and I couldn't have gotten it until 3rd the other way, delaying other important feats. Starting at 5th level, you'd be able to pull it off fine with Scout first, netting you extra skill points.
Yami 04-22-08, 10:36 AM	Well, I love Crusaders (played a crusader cleric in Ravenloft and a crusader/wiz/JPM in Exp. to Castle Greyhawk), so of the two options the OP mentioned, I vote in favor of the Crusader. The Ranger is a good suggestion too, with the outdoor skills. Depends on the campaign, but offering the ability to track and find your way around outside will offer a lot of utility to your group as well. Crusader maneuver mechanic is quite strange, but I don't find it very interfering. Here is the web enhancement WotC created with maneuver cards: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20061225a Which helps a lot. I just roll a die whose max value is greater than my number of available maneuvers after I finish my turn to pick my next turn's granted maneuver (so I'm concentrating on what I can do next round while the tactical situation unfolds), shuffle through my ungranted but available cards until I hit the number, and slap that card on my available pile. Cards also make keeping track of stances simpler for me. In fact, Ineed to make cards for my JPM stances, I keep forgetting about them. :) I love crusaders as tanks - they plug a hole and perform meat shield duties admirably. You won't be the big damage dealer, but you'll be the energizer bunny, it's so annoyingly hard to take you down! Whatever you choose, have fun!
Kerelis 04-22-08, 11:03 AM	Play a bard and make him a jester! No one has more flair than that. Maybe you can find a Jester Prc somewhere! Max out tumble, balance and perform, and have fun !
Mercurius 04-22-08, 03:50 PM	There's the Jester base class in the Dragon Compendium. I wouldn't really recommend it, though...
Dark Stryke 04-22-08, 05:00 PM	I really, really like the duskblade. It's in PHBII, has full BAB, wears most armor as it gains in level, and casts spells without arcane spell failure. It's a really solid and fun class to play. Even if you don't like spellcasters, I recommend taking a look at this one. A lot of its spells are swift or immediate actions, acting more like enhancements for your melee ability than actual "look at me I'm a wizard" type spells. It also has an ability that lets you cast pretty much any spell as a swift action a certain number of times per day, and another that let's you use your melee weapon to deliver touch spells. There's a lot of cool things you can do with the class. TWF and Spiked Chain (reach weapon + touch spells = fun times) are some of my favorites. Just because it CAN wear a shield doesn't mean it has to. Before you get too set in your crusader idea, give this class a look. You can really deprive yourself of a lot of cool options by dismissing something out of hand simply because it uses magic.
mOxMoNgEr1337 04-23-08, 11:39 AM	For a maximum of flair try a wizard and specialise into polymorph spell.At lvl 7 you will be able to take the transmogriph PrC from Complet Arcana and now the biiiig fun begin.(Also, when polymorphed into a 12 headed-Hydra or a Wyrmling gold Dragon ( Wich have better stats than a lot of young to juvenille dragon) you WILL have full BaA :D )
Nephlite 04-23-08, 12:10 PM	I kind of wanted to play something with a little flair. Something interesting and fun. I would like to have a full BaB, but it isn't necessary. I was thinking either Crusader or Hexblade. After looking at the Hexblade guide Hexblade could be fun, but I really in general dislike spells. I like the curse ability, it's the flair I am looking for, but it comes with the spell casting, and sure, I could NOT spell cast, but thats just dumb. Define Flair: I'm not sure I get the reference. Actually, having spells and not using them isn't dumb. That is the whole philisophy behind the Complete Warrior feat: Arcane Strike. You sacrifice spell slots for bonuses to hit/damage. So you need to actually cast. And idea: Play a Human Hexblade 3(before they get spells)/Warlock 11/Green Star Adept 6 (you can change how many Warlock levels and Green Stars but don't get Green Star 10 because it steals all your Con). This way you get spell-like abilities: Choose 1/day required casting invocations so you cast them in the morning and can after that forget about them. Choose stuff like Fell Flight, see the unseen, Curse of dispair (another cursing ability so fits hexblade). So you get 2 categories of abilities: 1) buffs (just declare used in morning): See Unseen, Fell Flight (you can walk even if you have flight speed), etc. 2) Attacks: Curse of Dispair, Hexblade Curse, Eldritch Blast, etc Now, this gives you DR 6/Adamantine and DR 3/Cold Iron: making you a decent warrior. Having 2 DRs helps because enemies can't have adamantine/Cold iron weapons for the same attack: so you always block a little damage. BAB of 15 I think (3 +8 +4).
CrawlingChaos 04-23-08, 12:28 PM	Here are my 2cps: Play a barbarian. Combat wise: pick power attack and leap attack and you should do fine. But the class has good uses outside combat too, if you focus in wilderness skills.
metalmayhem80110 04-25-08, 02:21 PM	Here are my 2cps: Play a barbarian. Combat wise: pick power attack and leap attack and you should do fine. But the class has good uses outside combat too, if you focus in wilderness skills. I was about to suggest the same thing. And than, to put your own spin on it, go into tempest. That class is in the Complete Adventurer and is ridiculously fun to play.
YamiShinobi 04-26-08, 04:00 AM	this may be suboptimal but barbarian/druid, essentially a shaman, just make sure you have at least enough druid levels to become a dire tiger, Wildshape +dire tiger +rage = shaman hoodoo woodoo of the shoodoo tribe. extra rage is good, if only there was a prc that progressed rage and wildshape. as well as druidic casting. ask if you could buyoff duergar L.A. (enlarged, enraged dire tiger) your flair is that you are a shaman of a savage tribe of duergar (the original hoodoo woodoo was a bought off half troll duergar, ask if he can homebrew a prc that advances wildshape and rage with a d8 hit dice and full bab good fort and reflex)
danielinthewolvesden 04-26-08, 01:57 PM	Ranger from Dungeonscape, which has Trapfinding. Hexblade is cool if you play it with Mearl's own "fix". http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=10585113&postcount=11 The hexblade suffers a little because he came on the scene relatively early in 3.5's life. As R&D pushes the boundaries of the game, we learn that some things we thought were risky or potentially broken aren't. Other times, we learn things that look fine don't actually work in play. Armored mages fall into the first category. Them seem really powerful, but in the long run they aren't. Spells and magic items allow an unarmored mage to build great defenses. The spell mage armor is as good as medium armor, and its duration allows most mages to keep it active at all times. If you compare the hexblade to the duskblade from PH 2, you can see how the thinking has changed. If you want to boost the hexblade, I'd try the following changes: * Good Fortitude save * Curse ability usable 1 + the hexblade's Cha modifier per day * Curse ability usable as a swift action * Curse ability does not count as used if the target makes his saving throw * Ability to cast in light or medium armor and while carrying a light shield or buckler * At 6th level, the hexblade can cast one hexblade spell per day as a swift action, as long as its original casting time is a standard action or faster. He gains an additional use of this power at levels 8, 11, 14, and 18. The key to the hexblade is his curse ability, but it's a little un-fun to have it so limited in use. The hexblade also has trouble casting spells and using his melee attacks, so shifting spells to swift actions fits in with the idea of an armored mage. (These are by no means official. They're just off the top of my head changes I'd consider making.)
kelvinaw273 04-27-08, 06:17 PM	If you're looking for flair, I suggest this: Human Swashbuckler 1/Scout 1/Swash+2/Fighter2/Dervish x Feats: EWP: Kusari-Gama (DMG) Two Weapon Fighting Weapon Focus: Kusari-Gama Dodge Mobility Weapon Finesse (Swash Bonus) Combat Expertise With Dervish Dance and two finessed reach weapons that each deal an additional 1d6 damage and your INT while moving more than 10 feet, you become something of a mobile death machine. It's got some weaknesses against undead, constructs, and elementals, but against other things, it just dances circles around them and brings the hurt. That was a fun character. Ideally, you could go Scout at first level - the only reason I didn't was because I needed EWP ASAP to work with my concept, and I couldn't have gotten it until 3rd the other way, delaying other important feats. Starting at 5th level, you'd be able to pull it off fine with Scout first, netting you extra skill points. The DMG has the details of the Kusari-Gama somewhat garbled - they confuse it with a similar weapon, a kama with a rope attached to the hilt, and at the end of the rope an iron ring. The Kusari-Gama was a scythe-sized 'kama' (the 'gama') attached to a chain with a weight on the end. Both were used in the same way: against a charging opponent the rope or chain is whirled at the legs to trip them, then they are finished on the ground with the kama or gama. The larger weapon was designed to be used against mounted foes (or large ones in D&D), the smaller against unmounted foes. In other words, the damage of either weapon can only be done close up, at range the weapon can inflict only minimal bludgeoning damage or a trip attack. Both are effectively two-handed weapons, although the kama version is light. Don't even think about swinging the kama/gama at the end of the rope/chain - the most likely person to be injured is the wielder.
Lyndis 04-28-08, 02:16 AM	You want flair? You say you're indecisive? You're just asking for to play a Factotum10/Chameleon10. You can do (or pretend to do) like everything. Your fellow players will be confused as to what class you really are. You can are a jack of all trades who can also change his specialization daily. You have a floating bonus feat to boot!
Roog 04-28-08, 04:18 AM	You want flair? You say you're indecisive? You're just asking for to play a Factotum10/Chameleon10. You can do (or pretend to do) like everything. Your fellow players will be confused as to what class you really are. You can are a jack of all trades who can also change his specialization daily. You have a floating bonus feat to boot! Yeah, 20th level characters are usually pretty impressive in a 4th-5th level party.
roninwolf1981 05-06-08, 01:12 PM	Go with a Fighter. Take Improved Unarmed Strike and Improved Grapple (and some of the grapple related feats/PrCs from Complete Warrior I think). Have your character shout "WOOOOOOO!!" at the top of his lungs at random intervals and sweat profusely. Now you have Flair :D
Mercurius 05-06-08, 02:51 PM	The DMG has the details of the Kusari-Gama somewhat garbled - they confuse it with a similar weapon, a kama with a rope attached to the hilt, and at the end of the rope an iron ring. The Kusari-Gama was a scythe-sized 'kama' (the 'gama') attached to a chain with a weight on the end. Both were used in the same way: against a charging opponent the rope or chain is whirled at the legs to trip them, then they are finished on the ground with the kama or gama. The larger weapon was designed to be used against mounted foes (or large ones in D&D), the smaller against unmounted foes. In other words, the damage of either weapon can only be done close up, at range the weapon can inflict only minimal bludgeoning damage or a trip attack. Both are effectively two-handed weapons, although the kama version is light. Don't even think about swinging the kama/gama at the end of the rope/chain - the most likely person to be injured is the wielder. The PHB garbled the heck out of a bunch of weapons already. Getting past what the thing is called and comparing it to real life, and instead just using the stats as printed? That's sorta the point. They called it something. It's not historically accurate, but neither are priests bringing people back from the dead. :rolleyes:
Cartigan 05-06-08, 03:18 PM	Does anyone else think that party is going to get the crapped kicked out of them at that level without a melee character?
Mercurius 05-06-08, 04:10 PM	Does anyone else think that party is going to get the crapped kicked out of them at that level without a melee character? Not if they're smart about it. The cleric could easily tank if necessary, and the Warlock can do reasonably consistant damage to single targets at a time. I don't think they'll be immensely powerful or anything, but a decent DM wouldn't TPK them, either, unless he was really trying.
Cartigan 05-06-08, 04:29 PM	This now reminds me of out level 5 temp game Sunday. One crazy played owned it hard with some abuse of 3.0 material. Feral Human Fighter/Barbarian Dungeon Crasher with some broken feat that gives him powerful build.
Duskblade_007 05-07-08, 10:04 PM	try a duskblade player,s handbook2, this class will give the party an arcane caster and a fighter' try these feats, supernatural crusader(tome of magic), smighting spell (ph2) sudden maximize(compleat arcane) thats lv1 combat casting bonus feat lv2 combat expertise lv3 improve trip(if your party fights monsters alot or improved dissarm if you fight people lv6 arcane strike lv9 compleat warrior or arcane also in races of the dragon or dragon magic i forget whitch their is an alterant class feature that gives you free armour if you take the dragon touched feat, the armour gets better as you go up in lv. (replace sudden maxmize at lv1) :D get a +1dragoncraft greatsword, with a wandchamber, and an entarnal wand of fist of stone, an amber ammy of giant vermin and the best bracers of armour and cloak of resistanceyou can buy, dont forget the armour and weapon crystals:cool: now roleplay or arcane channel your way to glory
Nathreet 05-07-08, 10:34 PM	Surprisingly good suggestions so far. I'll just add another option: duelist. Probably not the best choice but I thought I'd throw it out there. I'd agree on getting a melee fighter (not necessarily that particular class, though it'd work well). It'd help your party, and it seems like what you want. If you learn to use the tactical feats it can be a good way to show off too. Monster: "Rarr." You: <disarm> Monster: "****."