Can you ever cast more than one spell in a round? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Can you ever cast more than one spell in a round? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
The Axeman
04-24-05, 12:22 PM One of my players thinks that you can cast two spells in one round if you have a base attack bonus of +6 or higher, just like a fighter can attack more than once.

I disagree. I believe that you only ever get ONE standard action regardless of what your BAB is. Since a spell takes at least one standard action you can never cast more than one, no matter what your BAB is. True, fighters get numerous attacks per round but their extra attacks are still part of their one standard action..they don't actually gain any more actions.

Can anyone explain this better?
Father Dale
04-24-05, 12:25 PM You got it right. Casting a spell normally takes a standard action. So you can only do it once per round.

There are ways to do more than one spell a round. Quickened spells or spells that take a free/swift action to cast can be cast in a round, and then the standard action can be used to cast another spell. You are generally limited to only one quickened/free/swift spell per round. (although you can use the standard action to cast another such spell).

At epic levels there is a feat to let you cast more quickened spells in a round.

But otherwise, unless you somehow have an extra standard action, you are stuck to one spell per round and one quickened spell per round.
Da Dinictus
04-24-05, 12:28 PM Grow a second head somehow. Or play an ettin. Take that 'multi-voice' feat.
Just have a looksy at the Savage Species book.
Asciiman
04-24-05, 12:28 PM Besides, spells are balanced against attacks in that they become more powerful as you level up.
Quenditar
04-24-05, 12:55 PM I think there's a PrC that lets you take more than one standard action in a round.
Ut-Napishtim
04-24-05, 02:28 PM You can actually cast three spells in one round, like this:
First, begin casting a spell like a Summon Monster that takes a full-round to cast. On your next turn the spell will go off, then you cast a Quickened spell as a free action and another spell as a standard action. I guess you could up that with swift actions or whatever - but they're not core and I don't use them. There's enough actions in a round as it is IMHO.
Feriin
04-25-05, 12:44 PM You can actually cast three spells in one round, like this:
First, begin casting a spell like a Summon Monster that takes a full-round to cast. On your next turn the spell will go off, then you cast a Quickened spell as a free action and another spell as a standard action. I guess you could up that with swift actions or whatever - but they're not core and I don't use them. There's enough actions in a round as it is IMHO.

I believe you are mistaken here, even if a spell takes a full round to cast ( a round being 6 seconds, thus the spell taking 6 seconds to cast) the spell is started and finished in the same 6 seconds, what full round means is that you can not do anything else except cast that spell).

So the most spells that can be cast in a round (unless you have the PrC as mentioned above, or have epic feats, or you are some other feat I am not aware of) is 2, 1 with Quickened feat/item, 1 for a normal spell per round.
Evil Wizard
04-25-05, 02:44 PM You're pretty much limited to two: one on your standard action, and one quickened/free action spell. More than that breaks the game balance. Part of the reason that spells get exponentially more powerful at higher levels is to account for fighters hitting harder and getting more attacks.
Owiercyn
04-25-05, 02:51 PM You can also shapechange into a Chronotyryn, which has the dual actions special ability. Then you can cast 1 quickened/swift/immediate spell and two standard action type spells.
VanRiper
04-25-05, 02:52 PM Do we hear 4 spells in one round? Shapechange (9th level spell) into a Chronotryn (from the Fiend Folio). They can cast two spells per round due to having two brains (or some such thing) and have two full-rounds worth of actions in a single round. So, you can cast two standard spells and 2 quickened spells in the same round.
Owiercyn
04-25-05, 03:17 PM Even with the dual action special ability, I wasn't aware that you were allowed to take more than one quickened/swift/immediate action per round. Where do you get the ruling that the dual action allows two quickened spells a round?
VanRiper
04-25-05, 03:36 PM Even with the dual action special ability, I wasn't aware that you were allowed to take more than one quickened/swift/immediate action per round. Where do you get the ruling that the dual action allows two quickened spells a round?

"A chronotyryn has two distinct brains and two separate voice boxes. It can take two rounds’ worth of actions in any given round, as if it were two creatures."

"As if it were two creatures." Two creatures can each cast quickened spells, so each brain of the chronotyryn can. No, it never specifically mentions quickened spells - but it does say the above and it never says you can't do it.
tarkin
04-25-05, 03:38 PM The two quickend per round is illegal. He was using a house rule.

You want four per round?

Cast a Maximized Time Stop. That lets you cast 5 buffing spells in a single round, in addition to the time stop (6)

Throw in a quickened (7)

Add in a nice old Contigency spell. (8)

Not enough? Throw in Shapechange to a Choker (from core, not fiend folio) before the round begins.

You get 1 contigent, 1 quickend, 1 regular, extra action gives you a Time Stop, which could be maximized, for 5 more buffing spells.

9 spells, including the time stop, all cast in a single round.
Ut-Napishtim
04-25-05, 03:42 PM I believe you are mistaken here, even if a spell takes a full round to cast ( a round being 6 seconds, thus the spell taking 6 seconds to cast) the spell is started and finished in the same 6 seconds, what full round means is that you can not do anything else except cast that spell).

Yes if you measure the round from your initiative to your initiative on the next round as the spell does technically go off "just before the begining of your next turn" (PHB pp. 143.) However, let's say your initiative is 15 and you decide to cast Summon Monster III, so you may take a five-foot step, but aside from that you are considered to be casting for that round. Then when 16 rolls around in the initiative order (just before your next turn in your round) your spell goes off, then on 15 of the next round you may act normally - it's your turn. Then you can cast a Quickened spell as a free action and another spell as a standard action - which are resolved on your 15. You can even make a move action if you like.

So while to your character the spell was resolved at the end of your full round action, to the perspective of the Rogue on 18 and the Fighter on 12 you just cast 3 spells in one round. If you consider the whole of a combat round as the lowest initiative of all the participants (let's say 4) to the highest initiative of all the participants (we'll make it 27) with everybody getting their turn - you completed a spell on 16, and then cast two on 15, thereby in a more hollistic perspective cast 3 spells in one round of combat. Although you gave up your action last round (as the counter rolled over 27 and back to four before your full round spell went off) to do so.

If the DM is resolving caster's full round spells on their initiative (15 the previous round when you declared what you were casting,) resolving it, and then moving on to the next guy then he's handling it incorrectly - enemies should have that whole rotation (15 that round to 16 the next) to try and break your concentration. That gives a nice advantage to Conjurers in the campaign, and I actually had to point this out the last game I played in (had a Conjurer) with a rookie DM as he was giving me an unfair advantage. It's not a huge advantage, but enough that I felt I should be honest and point it out to him. Perhaps you're unconvinced and would say: Well technically it's still the same round to the character, and technically you'd be correct. However when I play spellcasters the perception of my character, and my teammates, is that I just whipped off a whole lot of magic in about four seconds.
pres_man
04-25-05, 03:52 PM Another thing to remember is that some spells give a certain amount of "charges" that can be used, for example produce flame allows number of attacks equal to your caster level. So for a druid with a BAB +6/+1, they could make two attacks each round. It isn't to castings so that is the difference.
VanRiper
04-25-05, 04:05 PM The two quickend per round is illegal. He was using a house rule.

How is it illegal? I quoted a book that seems to say that creature can do it. Has there been an errata or update to the chronotyryn that disproves it?
The Painter
04-25-05, 04:28 PM There also the old Choker trick.

Shapechange into a Choker.
- Cast a spell on yer first standard action.
- Cast a spell on yer second standard action from the Quickness (su).
- Cast a Quickened/Swift/Immediate Spell.
Head_PC 1
04-25-05, 05:16 PM In MY game you can. Actually you can cast 5, at level 20.
Catra
04-25-05, 05:31 PM What about haste?
Fargren
04-25-05, 05:46 PM In 3.5 haste doesn't let cast a second spell.
Asciiman
04-25-05, 05:57 PM In MY game you can. Actually you can cast 5, at level 20.

*SLAP*

Stupid people's children.
Head_PC 1
04-25-05, 06:32 PM I dont play dnd.
Phrennzy
04-25-05, 06:58 PM The two quickend per round is illegal. He was using a house rule.

You want four per round?

Cast a Maximized Time Stop. That lets you cast 5 buffing spells in a single round, in addition to the time stop (6)

Throw in a quickened (7)

Add in a nice old Contigency spell. (8)

Not enough? Throw in Shapechange to a Choker (from core, not fiend folio) before the round begins.

You get 1 contigent, 1 quickend, 1 regular, extra action gives you a Time Stop, which could be maximized, for 5 more buffing spells.

9 spells, including the time stop, all cast in a single round.

Ladies and Gentlemen, you have just seen what happends when Tarkin uses his abilities for evil.
Quenditar
04-25-05, 07:02 PM I dont play dnd.
I think you got a bad set of directions - this board is for people who play D&D (specifically, the 3.0 and 3.5 editions).

And can you glue that sequence above to the Thrall of Demogorgon (vile) PrC?
Heahengel
04-25-05, 11:45 PM One of my players thinks that you can cast two spells in one round if you have a base attack bonus of +6 or higher, just like a fighter can attack more than once.

I disagree. I believe that you only ever get ONE standard action regardless of what your BAB is. Since a spell takes at least one standard action you can never cast more than one, no matter what your BAB is. True, fighters get numerous attacks per round but their extra attacks are still part of their one standard action..they don't actually gain any more actions.

Can anyone explain this better?
Actually, a fighter's extra attacks only occur on a full round action. If he is only using a standard action to attack, he only gets one attack, at his max bonus.

As other people have said, you only get to cast additional spells in a round if you have some effect that allows this, definately not from BAB.
Solidcobra
04-26-05, 01:59 AM Shapechange into cronotyryn, have four levels of thrall of demogorgon. There, that's nine spells in one round. Six normal and three quickened. Beat THAT! :P
Neely
04-26-05, 02:38 AM The two quickend per round is illegal. He was using a house rule.

You want four per round?

Cast a Maximized Time Stop. That lets you cast 5 buffing spells in a single round, in addition to the time stop (6)

Throw in a quickened (7)

Add in a nice old Contigency spell. (8)

Not enough? Throw in Shapechange to a Choker (from core, not fiend folio) before the round begins.

You get 1 contigent, 1 quickend, 1 regular, extra action gives you a Time Stop, which could be maximized, for 5 more buffing spells.

9 spells, including the time stop, all cast in a single round.

Hehe, I also hear a depleted mage ;)
Taken he can do this trick twice (if his lvl is high enough) he would be playing cards for the rest of the day after 2 encounters.
ILL34GL3
04-26-05, 02:59 AM The Action Surge feat from the Eberron Campaign Setting allows you to use two action points to take an extra standard or move action in a turn. If you use action points. Which you should because it makes the game so much more fun.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
The Axeman 04-24-05, 12:22 PM	One of my players thinks that you can cast two spells in one round if you have a base attack bonus of +6 or higher, just like a fighter can attack more than once. I disagree. I believe that you only ever get ONE standard action regardless of what your BAB is. Since a spell takes at least one standard action you can never cast more than one, no matter what your BAB is. True, fighters get numerous attacks per round but their extra attacks are still part of their one standard action..they don't actually gain any more actions. Can anyone explain this better?
Father Dale 04-24-05, 12:25 PM	You got it right. Casting a spell normally takes a standard action. So you can only do it once per round. There are ways to do more than one spell a round. Quickened spells or spells that take a free/swift action to cast can be cast in a round, and then the standard action can be used to cast another spell. You are generally limited to only one quickened/free/swift spell per round. (although you can use the standard action to cast another such spell). At epic levels there is a feat to let you cast more quickened spells in a round. But otherwise, unless you somehow have an extra standard action, you are stuck to one spell per round and one quickened spell per round.
Da Dinictus 04-24-05, 12:28 PM	Grow a second head somehow. Or play an ettin. Take that 'multi-voice' feat. Just have a looksy at the Savage Species book.
Asciiman 04-24-05, 12:28 PM	Besides, spells are balanced against attacks in that they become more powerful as you level up.
Quenditar 04-24-05, 12:55 PM	I think there's a PrC that lets you take more than one standard action in a round.
Ut-Napishtim 04-24-05, 02:28 PM	You can actually cast three spells in one round, like this: First, begin casting a spell like a Summon Monster that takes a full-round to cast. On your next turn the spell will go off, then you cast a Quickened spell as a free action and another spell as a standard action. I guess you could up that with swift actions or whatever - but they're not core and I don't use them. There's enough actions in a round as it is IMHO.
Feriin 04-25-05, 12:44 PM	You can actually cast three spells in one round, like this: First, begin casting a spell like a Summon Monster that takes a full-round to cast. On your next turn the spell will go off, then you cast a Quickened spell as a free action and another spell as a standard action. I guess you could up that with swift actions or whatever - but they're not core and I don't use them. There's enough actions in a round as it is IMHO. I believe you are mistaken here, even if a spell takes a full round to cast ( a round being 6 seconds, thus the spell taking 6 seconds to cast) the spell is started and finished in the same 6 seconds, what full round means is that you can not do anything else except cast that spell). So the most spells that can be cast in a round (unless you have the PrC as mentioned above, or have epic feats, or you are some other feat I am not aware of) is 2, 1 with Quickened feat/item, 1 for a normal spell per round.
Evil Wizard 04-25-05, 02:44 PM	You're pretty much limited to two: one on your standard action, and one quickened/free action spell. More than that breaks the game balance. Part of the reason that spells get exponentially more powerful at higher levels is to account for fighters hitting harder and getting more attacks.
Owiercyn 04-25-05, 02:51 PM	You can also shapechange into a Chronotyryn, which has the dual actions special ability. Then you can cast 1 quickened/swift/immediate spell and two standard action type spells.
VanRiper 04-25-05, 02:52 PM	Do we hear 4 spells in one round? Shapechange (9th level spell) into a Chronotryn (from the Fiend Folio). They can cast two spells per round due to having two brains (or some such thing) and have two full-rounds worth of actions in a single round. So, you can cast two standard spells and 2 quickened spells in the same round.
Owiercyn 04-25-05, 03:17 PM	Even with the dual action special ability, I wasn't aware that you were allowed to take more than one quickened/swift/immediate action per round. Where do you get the ruling that the dual action allows two quickened spells a round?
VanRiper 04-25-05, 03:36 PM	Even with the dual action special ability, I wasn't aware that you were allowed to take more than one quickened/swift/immediate action per round. Where do you get the ruling that the dual action allows two quickened spells a round? "A chronotyryn has two distinct brains and two separate voice boxes. It can take two rounds’ worth of actions in any given round, as if it were two creatures." "As if it were two creatures." Two creatures can each cast quickened spells, so each brain of the chronotyryn can. No, it never specifically mentions quickened spells - but it does say the above and it never says you can't do it.
tarkin 04-25-05, 03:38 PM	The two quickend per round is illegal. He was using a house rule. You want four per round? Cast a Maximized Time Stop. That lets you cast 5 buffing spells in a single round, in addition to the time stop (6) Throw in a quickened (7) Add in a nice old Contigency spell. (8) Not enough? Throw in Shapechange to a Choker (from core, not fiend folio) before the round begins. You get 1 contigent, 1 quickend, 1 regular, extra action gives you a Time Stop, which could be maximized, for 5 more buffing spells. 9 spells, including the time stop, all cast in a single round.
Ut-Napishtim 04-25-05, 03:42 PM	I believe you are mistaken here, even if a spell takes a full round to cast ( a round being 6 seconds, thus the spell taking 6 seconds to cast) the spell is started and finished in the same 6 seconds, what full round means is that you can not do anything else except cast that spell). Yes if you measure the round from your initiative to your initiative on the next round as the spell does technically go off "just before the begining of your next turn" (PHB pp. 143.) However, let's say your initiative is 15 and you decide to cast Summon Monster III, so you may take a five-foot step, but aside from that you are considered to be casting for that round. Then when 16 rolls around in the initiative order (just before your next turn in your round) your spell goes off, then on 15 of the next round you may act normally - it's your turn. Then you can cast a Quickened spell as a free action and another spell as a standard action - which are resolved on your 15. You can even make a move action if you like. So while to your character the spell was resolved at the end of your full round action, to the perspective of the Rogue on 18 and the Fighter on 12 you just cast 3 spells in one round. If you consider the whole of a combat round as the lowest initiative of all the participants (let's say 4) to the highest initiative of all the participants (we'll make it 27) with everybody getting their turn - you completed a spell on 16, and then cast two on 15, thereby in a more hollistic perspective cast 3 spells in one round of combat. Although you gave up your action last round (as the counter rolled over 27 and back to four before your full round spell went off) to do so. If the DM is resolving caster's full round spells on their initiative (15 the previous round when you declared what you were casting,) resolving it, and then moving on to the next guy then he's handling it incorrectly - enemies should have that whole rotation (15 that round to 16 the next) to try and break your concentration. That gives a nice advantage to Conjurers in the campaign, and I actually had to point this out the last game I played in (had a Conjurer) with a rookie DM as he was giving me an unfair advantage. It's not a huge advantage, but enough that I felt I should be honest and point it out to him. Perhaps you're unconvinced and would say: Well technically it's still the same round to the character, and technically you'd be correct. However when I play spellcasters the perception of my character, and my teammates, is that I just whipped off a whole lot of magic in about four seconds.
pres_man 04-25-05, 03:52 PM	Another thing to remember is that some spells give a certain amount of "charges" that can be used, for example produce flame allows number of attacks equal to your caster level. So for a druid with a BAB +6/+1, they could make two attacks each round. It isn't to castings so that is the difference.
VanRiper 04-25-05, 04:05 PM	The two quickend per round is illegal. He was using a house rule. How is it illegal? I quoted a book that seems to say that creature can do it. Has there been an errata or update to the chronotyryn that disproves it?
The Painter 04-25-05, 04:28 PM	There also the old Choker trick. Shapechange into a Choker. - Cast a spell on yer first standard action. - Cast a spell on yer second standard action from the Quickness (su). - Cast a Quickened/Swift/Immediate Spell.
Head_PC 1 04-25-05, 05:16 PM	In MY game you can. Actually you can cast 5, at level 20.
Catra 04-25-05, 05:31 PM	What about haste?
Fargren 04-25-05, 05:46 PM	In 3.5 haste doesn't let cast a second spell.
Asciiman 04-25-05, 05:57 PM	In MY game you can. Actually you can cast 5, at level 20. SLAP Stupid people's children.
Head_PC 1 04-25-05, 06:32 PM	I dont play dnd.
Phrennzy 04-25-05, 06:58 PM	The two quickend per round is illegal. He was using a house rule. You want four per round? Cast a Maximized Time Stop. That lets you cast 5 buffing spells in a single round, in addition to the time stop (6) Throw in a quickened (7) Add in a nice old Contigency spell. (8) Not enough? Throw in Shapechange to a Choker (from core, not fiend folio) before the round begins. You get 1 contigent, 1 quickend, 1 regular, extra action gives you a Time Stop, which could be maximized, for 5 more buffing spells. 9 spells, including the time stop, all cast in a single round. Ladies and Gentlemen, you have just seen what happends when Tarkin uses his abilities for evil.
Quenditar 04-25-05, 07:02 PM	I dont play dnd. I think you got a bad set of directions - this board is for people who play D&D (specifically, the 3.0 and 3.5 editions). And can you glue that sequence above to the Thrall of Demogorgon (vile) PrC?
Heahengel 04-25-05, 11:45 PM	One of my players thinks that you can cast two spells in one round if you have a base attack bonus of +6 or higher, just like a fighter can attack more than once. I disagree. I believe that you only ever get ONE standard action regardless of what your BAB is. Since a spell takes at least one standard action you can never cast more than one, no matter what your BAB is. True, fighters get numerous attacks per round but their extra attacks are still part of their one standard action..they don't actually gain any more actions. Can anyone explain this better? Actually, a fighter's extra attacks only occur on a full round action. If he is only using a standard action to attack, he only gets one attack, at his max bonus. As other people have said, you only get to cast additional spells in a round if you have some effect that allows this, definately not from BAB.
Solidcobra 04-26-05, 01:59 AM	Shapechange into cronotyryn, have four levels of thrall of demogorgon. There, that's nine spells in one round. Six normal and three quickened. Beat THAT! :P
Neely 04-26-05, 02:38 AM	The two quickend per round is illegal. He was using a house rule. You want four per round? Cast a Maximized Time Stop. That lets you cast 5 buffing spells in a single round, in addition to the time stop (6) Throw in a quickened (7) Add in a nice old Contigency spell. (8) Not enough? Throw in Shapechange to a Choker (from core, not fiend folio) before the round begins. You get 1 contigent, 1 quickend, 1 regular, extra action gives you a Time Stop, which could be maximized, for 5 more buffing spells. 9 spells, including the time stop, all cast in a single round. Hehe, I also hear a depleted mage ;) Taken he can do this trick twice (if his lvl is high enough) he would be playing cards for the rest of the day after 2 encounters.
ILL34GL3 04-26-05, 02:59 AM	The Action Surge feat from the Eberron Campaign Setting allows you to use two action points to take an extra standard or move action in a turn. If you use action points. Which you should because it makes the game so much more fun.