Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Incensius 06-23-04, 05:29 AM	Since i've been seeing many many threads on these boards in which people speak of witty ways of using mundane items and spells that are usually not considered, i thought this would be interesting. Ah yes.....cantrips.....the spells that everyone has to pick, but few care to use them. Every time i ask my players to make new characters, all i hear is "Bah....cantrips....i want fireball damnit...." But it's a fact that given the right DM (meaning one that will allow things), you can turn the tide of some encounters using low level spells. Here are some ideas on how to use these spells, or situations when they can be best used: 1) Dancing lights - this spell is pretty handy during dungen crawling, but not quite as handy as the light spell, due to the short duration of this spell. You could however use it to create a humanoid like glowing shape, that will maybe lure the goblins away while the cleric heals your wounds... 2) Daze: This is the quintessential spell for those low level mages that have no other arcane spellcasting compadres. Use the mage to cast it every round, thus denying the target the action that it would normally take. This spell is particularly useful against spellcasters, since it denies them the action required to cast a spell at you....while your mage casts daze every round, your fighter gets close enough to the enemy spellcaster to beat him to a pulp. 3) Detect Magic: “DM: You find a nicely crafted sword, with a beautiful pommel jewel set into it player: Rock’n Roll! I use the sword! DM: What do you mean you use the sword? Player: I swing it around to see if it’s maaaagical DM (laughs): What do you mean you swing it around…..it’s not a lightsabre… Player: So how can I tell if it’s magical? DM (sighs): It’s called a detect magic spell…..” The detect magic spell is something ignored waaaay to often. Imagine you’re standing in front of a suspicious looking door. Do you want to search it? Do you want to open it? Try to unlock it? Or maybe cast a detect magic spell to see if there’s anything magic behind it waiting for you to make a mistake? The detect magic spell offers some interesting insight on what will follow soon and should be used before confronting an enemy spellcaster 4) Detect poison: Low-level parties will most likely be susceptible to poison, and there are many poison-covered daggers, not to mention claws and fangs in the adventuring world. One of the least used spells is just this: detect poison. Your buffed up cleric didn’t make his fortitude save. He’s the only one in the party that can heal himself and you are for now without a cleric. BUT you’re in the forest, far away from civilization. Things look grim indeed. Worry not though…Detect poison is here. Use it, whenever you think you are going to find the much needed ingredients to cure someone. You can even start an adventure using this particular spell. The members of some high council or well known organization have fallen prey to poison attacks. If you find what poison it is, and where it’s most likely to be found, you can track down the evil-doers more easily. 5) Disrupt undead: 1d6 damage….true…..and still….why waste the fighter’s many and strong attacks on the skeletons and puny undead when he has to take on the ghouls? Use the wizard to cast this spell as many times as possible to get rid of annoying skeletons that have the tendency of attacking in large groups and flanking…. Not to mention that when you’re out of higher level spells and the DM launches his last few skeletons at you and you take them out oh so easily, you’ll love the look on his face ;) 6) Flare: I wouldn’t suggest you use this spell or even learn it for the day unless you know you’re going to be fighting only one enemy. The –1 to attack is pretty silly….but against only one enemy, it can make somewhat of a difference 7) Ghost sound: One of my all time fav. Cantrips. So the goblins are approaching rapidly towards you, seeing as how the fighter and ranger are almost out of hit points and the cleric is almost out of healing spells. It’s up to you….THE WIZARD. Suddenly, from the other side of the cavern the banging noise of armor is heard and four men seem to be approaching. The goblins scatter as they hear the reinforcements. It’s best used together with silent image. Just use silent image to make up a large savage looking barbarian, with a lust for blood look. Then add to that the effects of ghost sound to make it even more terrifying. Ghost sound is that kind of spell that gets you out of **** once you’ve entered it…. 8) Light: Aaahh yes….one of THE most used cantrips. Light is indeed a quintessential spell for dungeon crawlers, cavern walkers and such adventurers that seem to always find themselves in dark corners. Light is quite effective when fighting shadows, and is best used against them. Remember that you can cast light on any object you touch. Think of casting it on the sword or on the armor. Think of casting it on an arrow and having the archer shoot it down the length of the corridor. One of light’s many advantages is that it lasts very very long in comparison with other spells. 9) Mage Hand: A useful spell. Although the weight limit is of 5 pounds, it can make the difference. Mage hand should best be used when stealth is needed and a rogue isn’t around. If you need to steal the key to the prison cell that you’re in. All you need is imagination with this spell. You’re being attacked inside the kitchen? Toss anything their way, toss any slippery liquid containing bottle their way. I for example found this spell particularly useful when dealing with trapped corridors, with pressure based traps. Just cast mage hand on something that weighs close to 5 pounds and test the floor. 10) Mending is maybe not one of the most needed spells when you’re in a hack’n slash adventure. But it can be quite useful, especially for bards that have that tendency of breaking stuff up (doesn’t work that well on marriages though ;) ) 11) Open/close: This spell’s sole meaning in battle would maybe be to shut off the access of any more incoming critters. If you’re already fighting many creatures, take the time to cast this spell in order to seal off the entrance to the room. Of course, it can be used to slam the door into someone’s face, or slam a chest shut, reaaaally hurting someone’s fingers. 12) Prestidigitation: The only real use for this spell that I can think off is with pranks. When thinking of this spell I think of the old Japanese movies where some guy pops up with his entire family to fight this one guy “You have offended my family!!!! Now you die!” Think of someone turning the wine at a wedding into well….something disgusting….then being chased by the two families at the wedding. 13) Ray of frost: A ray of frost is a funny little spell, that is best used against fire subtype creatures. It deals little to no damage to other creatures, but to those with the fire subtype, it can be nasty. 14) Read Magic: This is a useful spell, given the right circumstances. You’re inside the wizard’s tower, and you see writing on the wall. Now you know the wizards has been terrorizing the community for a few weeks, but no one knows the reason. The reason is written on the wall in the form of magical writing. BUT you cannot decypher it….damnies….so you find the wizard and fight him. If you were to read the words, you would gain an ally instead of wasting time, spells and hp on the wizard….This spell is best used when you know you’re gonna deal with a lot of magic, including glyphs. 15) Resistance: This spell is good. Too many look to it and think “Bah….+1 to saves….what do I need that for?” WRONG! You’re a low level wizard, with crappy saves….you need all the help with saves you can get, especially for fortitude and reflex….TAKE THIS SPELL AND USE IT!!! I’m not sure if I’ve helped with anything with this post, but I hope that I have in one way or another. The idea is that all spells have potential, including the low level ones. Don’t ignore them, thinking it’s all over when you’re down to only the cantrips. They’re something that comes in quite handy, and picking them is something you should think about seriously. Matt
was_fired 06-23-04, 07:47 AM	Your players don't use cantrips... odd. Lets see past 10th level I have seen: prestidigitation used (actually this is still being used past 20th instead of bathing), mage hand in a zero gravity section of a dungeon as a cheaper and safer alternative to flight, and detect magic to avoid wasting pearls on worthless swords.
Edd1e 06-23-04, 08:03 AM	My sorcerer was trapped in a small room with a locked door and a cleric of Erythnul and a barbarian trying to break it down. They know that I'm invisible and once the cleric casts invisibility purge I'm dead. However I cast ghost sound imitating a sound of someone who has landed on the floor below the open window. The cleric and the barbarian charge behind the sound believing that I had fled through the window while invisible. I then used mage hand to pull a chair and sit comfortably while our fighter and cleric engaged them.;)
devinmdp 06-23-04, 03:18 PM	The one I am still trying to figure out is Virtue. Is there EVER a reason to cast or memorize that spell?
Krelios 06-23-04, 03:41 PM	Okay, a couple of compliments and nitpicks... “DM: You find a nicely crafted sword, with a beautiful pommel jewel set into it player: Rock’n Roll! I use the sword! DM: What do you mean you use the sword? Player: I swing it around to see if it’s maaaagical DM (laughs): What do you mean you swing it around…..it’s not a lightsabre… Player: So how can I tell if it’s magical? DM (sighs): It’s called a detect magic spell…..” Special Qualities: Roll d%. If the item is a melee weapon, a 01–30 result indicates that the item sheds light, 31–45 indicates that something (a design, inscription, or the like) provides a clue to the weapon’s function, and 46–100 indicates no special qualities. If the item is a ranged weapon, a 01–15 result indicates that something (a design, inscription, or the like) provides a clue to the weapon’s function, and 16–100 indicates no special qualities.Similar percentages hold true for other magic items, and if the sword is used, the abilities function whether the character knows about them or not, so s/he's likely to figure out pretty quickly that it's magical. Detect magic just saves time for the 55% of the time it isn't obvious. 4) Detect poison: Low-level parties will most likely be susceptible to poison, and there are many poison-covered daggers, not to mention claws and fangs in the adventuring world. One of the least used spells is just this: detect poison. Your buffed up cleric didn’t make his fortitude save. He’s the only one in the party that can heal himself and you are for now without a cleric. BUT you’re in the forest, far away from civilization. Things look grim indeed. Worry not though…Detect poison is here. Use it, whenever you think you are going to find the much needed ingredients to cure someone. You can even start an adventure using this particular spell. The members of some high council or well known organization have fallen prey to poison attacks. If you find what poison it is, and where it’s most likely to be found, you can track down the evil-doers more easily.By the rules there are no specific antidotes for any poisons, and most people can tell pretty quickly when they've actually been poisoned so this spell has no effect unless the DM has house-rules for antidotes. If they do, then I agree with you that this spell rocks. 9) Mage Hand: A useful spell. Although the weight limit is of 5 pounds, it can make the difference. Mage hand should best be used when stealth is needed and a rogue isn’t around. If you need to steal the key to the prison cell that you’re in. All you need is imagination with this spell. You’re being attacked inside the kitchen? Toss anything their way, toss any slippery liquid containing bottle their way. I for example found this spell particularly useful when dealing with trapped corridors, with pressure based traps. Just cast mage hand on something that weighs close to 5 pounds and test the floor.Cool, except that most of my traps require at least 25 lbs or so to trigger so that halflings will still set them off, but a bag of tricks, and handle of coppers or a mage hand spell won't do it. That's only because my villains are usually very smart. 12) Prestidigitation: The only real use for this spell that I can think off is with pranks. When thinking of this spell I think of the old Japanese movies where some guy pops up with his entire family to fight this one guy “You have offended my family!!!! Now you die!” Think of someone turning the wine at a wedding into well….something disgusting….then being chased by the two families at the wedding.Prestidigitation is the only 0th level arcane spell I ever use. I can't change wine into anything, that's Polymorph Any Object's job, but it is excellent for cleaning/drying armor and clothing and it's why my sorcerers are always having a good hair day. (The only Divine 0th level spell I ever use is Cure Minor Wounds--terrific for keeping prisoners stabilized without waking them.) 13) Ray of frost: A ray of frost is a funny little spell, that is best used against fire subtype creatures. It deals little to no damage to other creatures, but to those with the fire subtype, it can be nasty.Awesome for sneak attacking with since most other 0th level spells won't be used--of course, that's only if you're multiclassed into Rogue. All in all, I like what you're trying to do, so don't take my nitpicks personally--I just want to be sure that the creativity is still within the rules of the spells.
primemover003 06-23-04, 03:45 PM	1 hit point can mean a huge difference at 1st level...
devinmdp 06-23-04, 03:53 PM	Originally posted by primemover003 1 hit point can mean a huge difference at 1st level... No. It really can't. Think about it. Who would ever take a spell slot to add 1 hp for 1 minute? Even worse is that Paladins get it as a 1st level spell! Devin
devinmdp 06-23-04, 03:54 PM	Absolutely the only possible use I can think of for Virtue is a low level mage casting four of them on himself before stepping into some sort of very structured melee combat (like a Gladitorial arena). Devin
J_Riley 06-23-04, 04:02 PM	First off, I like this thread. I always have trouble optimizing my cantrip use. Now, ones you didn't mention: Acid Splash - not much to it, globe of acid that does 1d3 damage, at least it's a ranged touch attack. Touch of Fatigue - Sorry, I don't much know the effects of fatigue. I would assume some penalties to hit or some such. Sucks that it requires a touch attack. No wizard is likely to risk melee to effect a cantrip. But perhaps in a cloak & dagger campaign you could tire someone out and make them more succeptible to suggestion or something. Message - A great one for telling the front liners you're about to loose the heavy artillery. They can even reply. Arcane Mark - good for marking likely to be stolen things, like say your spellbook. Easy to identify later. Just trying to contribute to what I consider a good thread.
J_Riley 06-23-04, 04:08 PM	Originally posted by devinmdp Absolutely the only possible use I can think of for Virtue is a low level mage casting four of them on himself Virtue is a orison, not a cantrip. (i.e. cleric, not wiz/sorc), just to clarify.
devinmdp 06-23-04, 04:11 PM	Originally posted by J_Riley Virtue is a orison, not a cantrip. (i.e. cleric, not wiz/sorc), just to clarify. Yes. I know that.
BlaineTog 06-23-04, 04:38 PM	Originally posted by Incensius Ah yes.....cantrips.....the spells that everyone has to pick, but few care to use them. Every time i ask my players to make new characters, all i hear is "Bah....cantrips....i want fireball damnit...."Speak for yourself! My favorite spells to use are cantrips. Higher levels ones are for the serious combat, but the cantrips are all about flavor. Mostly. 1) Dancing lights - this spell is pretty handy during dungen crawling, but not quite as handy as the light spell, due to the short duration of this spell. You could however use it to create a humanoid like glowing shape, that will maybe lure the goblins away while the cleric heals your wounds...I've never seen the use of this spell. You might as well use Light (for light) or Ghost Sound (to lure). A glowing humanoid-shaped light just seems too suspicious to me. Then again, I'm not as stupid as goblin... 2) Daze: This is the quintessential spell for those low level mages that have no other arcane spellcasting compadres. Use the mage to cast it every round, thus denying the target the action that it would normally take. This spell is particularly useful against spellcasters, since it denies them the action required to cast a spell at you....while your mage casts daze every round, your fighter gets close enough to the enemy spellcaster to beat him to a pulp.Awesome spell. One of the few combat-viable cantrips, and it always sees a good deal of use from me (at least at low levels). 3) Detect Magic: “DM: You find a nicely crafted sword, with a beautiful pommel jewel set into it player: Rock’n Roll! I use the sword! DM: What do you mean you use the sword? Player: I swing it around to see if it’s maaaagical DM (laughs): What do you mean you swing it around…..it’s not a lightsabre… Player: So how can I tell if it’s magical? DM (sighs): It’s called a detect magic spell…..”I wonder if Titania can cast it... ;) The detect magic spell is something ignored waaaay to often. Imagine you’re standing in front of a suspicious looking door. Do you want to search it? Do you want to open it? Try to unlock it? Or maybe cast a detect magic spell to see if there’s anything magic behind it waiting for you to make a mistake? The detect magic spell offers some interesting insight on what will follow soon and should be used before confronting an enemy spellcasterI happen to use this spell quite a bit, so much so that a Wand of it a really good investment (unless the DM will allow a custon at-will item). 4) Detect poison: Low-level parties will most likely be susceptible to poison, and there are many poison-covered daggers, not to mention claws and fangs in the adventuring world.A good spell, but I've always thought that it would only really get a workout in an intigue-based campaign (political assasinations and whatnot). 5) Disrupt undead:I dislike this spell quite a bit. 1d6 damage is just too low for a touch attack. If it was ranged it might be worth it, but not touch. Undead generally don't have very high ACs so you'de be better off whacking it with your staff. 7) Ghost sound: One of my all time fav. Cantrips.Mine too. Couple it with Silent Image and you have all the illusions you'll ever need. 8) Light: Aaahh yes….one of THE most used cantrips.Actually, I don't cast this spell. Ever. A Continuous Flame torch only costs 90 gp, and normal torches will suffice at low levels. 9) Mage Hand: A useful spell. Although the weight limit is of 5 pounds, it can make the difference.My favorite thing to do wtih this is steal stuff. :devil: I for example found this spell particularly useful when dealing with trapped corridors, with pressure based traps. Just cast mage hand on something that weighs close to 5 pounds and test the floor.This is what the Summon Monster 1 spell is good for. :schemes: 10) Mending is maybe not one of the most needed spells when you’re in a hack’n slash adventure. But it can be quite useful, especially for bards that have that tendency of breaking stuff up (doesn’t work that well on marriages though ;) )I tend to pick spells for my characters that I myself would like to have. Mending is one of those spells. Virtually ever caster I've ever had has had this spell. 11) Open/close: This spell’s sole meaning in battle would maybe be to shut off the access of any more incoming critters. If you’re already fighting many creatures, take the time to cast this spell in order to seal off the entrance to the room. Of course, it can be used to slam the door into someone’s face, or slam a chest shut, reaaaally hurting someone’s fingers.It has its uses, but they are few and far between. Dropping a 5 pound block on their head, for instance, is usually more effective. :D 12) Prestidigitation: The only real use for this spell that I can think off is with pranks. When thinking of this spell I think of the old Japanese movies where some guy pops up with his entire family to fight this one guy “You have offended my family!!!! Now you die!” Think of someone turning the wine at a wedding into well….something disgusting….then being chased by the two families at the wedding.Prestidigitation is, by far, the best spell in the game. *points at sig* 13) Ray of frost: A ray of frost is a funny little spell, that is best used against fire subtype creatures. It deals little to no damage to other creatures, but to those with the fire subtype, it can be nasty.I like this spell. Its good for when your commoner subjects get uppity, but you don't want to kill them. :devil: 14) Read Magic: This is a useful spell, given the right circumstances.A great spell overall, especially if you find a lot of scrolls. Wizards can use it for when they fail their spellcraft/decipher script checks and Sorcerers can use it to get an idea of how much the scroll is worth. :D 15) Resistance: This spell is good. Too many look to it and think “Bah….+1 to saves….what do I need that for?” WRONG! You’re a low level wizard, with crappy saves….you need all the help with saves you can get, especially for fortitude and reflex….TAKE THIS SPELL AND USE IT!!!The duration isn't long enough IMO and cloaks of resistence +1 pop up fairly early in the game.
Incensius 06-23-04, 04:54 PM	wow...responses....heh, thanks for the answers. I only posted most of the arcane cantrips though....didn;t have time for clerics and such. Thanks for the nitpicks Krelios, they're appreciated. As for the quote regardin detect magic, as blaine has already figured out, it's from a dungeons and dragons mpg. parody. It's really funny :) Now, to get a few things out in the open: Detect poison: I was speaking in the terms of a campaign such as Blaine said. I'm not sure if i remember (and i'm too lazy to scroll down to see) but i think i gave an example as to using it in detective-like campaigns. It quickens everything considerably. Disrupt undead: Needless to say, clerics reign in the undead spooking/killing businness. But who ever said a wizard touching a skeleton and making it break into lil pieces isn't fun to watch either? ;) Light: Yes, but as i said, it's effective when you're dealing with many different things. Such as, in a campaign, there i was with my party, looking down a deep deep well. We toss in a torch. The torch hits water and is screwed....we cast light on the biggest rock we find and throw it down...voila! we see the monster in the well ;) Prestidigitation is a great spell indeed, and can be used to the heart's content. But like i said, it all depends on whether the dm is the sort of guy that will enjoy the roleplaying involved or not. As for the cloak of resistance, i have to say i've always been a fan of raw power rather than gadgets. And i consider the spells the wizard/sorcerer casts as raw power. I mean, throw the sorcerer in the arena. If he doesn't have this spell and they strip him of the cloak he is indeed in some trouble...not a lot, mind you, but some. Virtue isn't bad, but as others said, it's only 1 hp, and only 10 rounds. It's a spell to be considered when you're like with 2 hp left and need to get out of a messy situation. Otherwise, you're most likely going to ignore it.....and for good reason.... Should i continue with the divine cantrips? Mat ps: all opinions are greatly appreciated (edit): Oh and blaine, i'm not going to read your sig you sicko! that would take me bout ten hours!!! ;)
Thermanshs 06-23-04, 08:52 PM	Just a minor interruption but is this all about cantrips/orisons or do you seek ways to use most low level spells?(even rumored as useless ones)
Edymnion 06-24-04, 12:42 AM	Ray of Frost: You have obviously never seen a Rogue X/Sorcerer 1 use this spell. Ranged touch attack, and you can use it to deliever Sneak Attacks with. Dancing Light: Must not be very creative if you can't find a good use for this spell, I'm sorry to say. Let me put it this way, do you know how many Players I have completely freaked out into running away from a lvl 1 mage with this spell? Use the glowing humanoid outline form. Center it on yourself. There, you are now glowing from head to toe. Mix this up with Prestidigitation, and you've got one heck of an impressive lightshow going on. And heck, this is the classic wizard "little ball of light hanging over your shoulder" spell. Prestidigiation: Mother of all Spells, if you aren't casting this one at least twice a day, you don't deserve to be playing an Arcane caster :P Aside from the normal mundane uses, such as bathing and cleaning your cloths, you can use it to heat and flavor your food, meaning you eat well while everyone else is choking down their trail rations. The Dampen effect is great when you're having to enter a burning building, just Dampen everything in front of you as you go. Use this to make your eyes glow, your voice echo, sparks jump through your hair, your cloak blow and ruffle without any wind... Seriously, if you can't see the incredible power of this spell, you might want to just play a Fighter, because chances are you're in a pure hack-n-slash game already anyway. And yes, it can turn water into wine, or at least make it look like wine, and taste like wine, but you'll never get drunk off it. Detect Poison: Your Rogue will kiss you if you use this spell on big important looking chests BEFORE he runs the risk of getting himself stabbed with a poisoned needle. Its all about the teamwork man, all about the teamwork. Long live the cantrips, the most powerful set of spells in the game! :D
wdarkk 06-24-04, 01:15 AM	Prestidigitation is like a mini-wish.
was_fired 06-24-04, 02:13 AM	Nah limited wish is the mini wish. Prestigitation is closer to greater wish. You can do any minor effect for zero XP. If you wanted to clean yourself with a wish 5,000XP but prestidigitation does it for free. :P
Tegarius 06-24-04, 03:07 AM	I would like to say that for combat purposes, create water is a great 0 level spell. The spell scales up in level, and it's pretty funny to at least stun a person by dropping 60+ gallons on their heads.
Surgo 06-24-04, 03:32 AM	Actually, I don't cast this spell. Ever. A Continuous Flame torch only costs 90 gp, and normal torches will suffice at low levels. I don't like throwing my Continuously Flaming rock down the corridor or into rooms. I'd rather cast Light on a coin or arrow and toss or shoot it.
edgelett 06-24-04, 03:39 AM	Originally posted by Tegarius I would like to say that for combat purposes, create water is a great 0 level spell. The spell scales up in level, and it's pretty funny to at least stun a person by dropping 60+ gallons on their heads. I have to agree here - let's just say my 13th level cleric with domains of sun & strength found (therefore no icy/cold spells) that casting "create water" right above the head of a large fire elemental that's hell bent on killing you can have great results.
Incensius 06-24-04, 03:50 AM	Divine spells: 1) Create water: Great for estinguishing small fires, not to mention not dying of thirst. If you’re going to play in a desert campaign, or even at sea (with salty sea water) this is a great spell to have. I suggest it whole-heartily, if not for the benefits, then for the beauty of the story 2) Cure minor wounds: Cures ONLY 1 hp. Take it only if you think you’re gonna be desperate. No reason to take it otherwise….not in my opinion at least. The same goes for Inflict Minor wounds. 3) Detect Magic and Detect Poison have been discussed before, in the other posts 4) Guidance: When you’re low level, even a +1 to attack, save or skill check can help. Not to mention the fun at casting it on a NPC when everyone is making fun of him that he can’t do anything right. 5) Light and Mending have been discussed in the other posts. However, I would like to add that a cleric casting light sounds really nice role-playing-like. After all, they are mostly bringers of light, aren’t they? (exception being evil god worshipping clerics ;) ) 6) Purify food and water: GREAT SPELL when it comes to campaigns that include lots of story-telling and such. It’s the one-way ticket to fame. I take this spell as often as I can. You’re a low level cleric. You’re going to be helping people out. Peasant-like people. This spell comes in really handy when helping them, in various settings. Not to mention having to purify your own food and water when on a long trip… 7) Read Magic and Resistance have been discussed in the other posts 8) Virtue: Much talk about it….One temporary hit point isn’t good enough….it’s just not gonna cut it. I would much rather cast Resistance on myself as a defensive spell…..but that’s my opinion….
BlaineTog 06-24-04, 03:56 AM	Originally posted by Tegarius I would like to say that for combat purposes, create water is a great 0 level spell. The spell scales up in level, and it's pretty funny to at least stun a person by dropping 60+ gallons on their heads. Technically doesn't work. Conjuration (Creation) spells always put their stuff flat on the ground. Originally posted by Surgo I don't like throwing my Continuously Flaming rock down the corridor or into rooms. I'd rather cast Light on a coin or arrow and toss or shoot it.Perhaps, but isn't this what Darkvision is for? Originally posted by Edymnion Dancing Light: Must not be very creative if you can't find a good use for this spell, I'm sorry to say.All I know is that I'd rather use Disguise Self or Silent Image. Or Prestigiditation. :D Let me put it this way, do you know how many Players I have completely freaked out into running away from a lvl 1 mage with this spell?42? Use the glowing humanoid outline form. Center it on yourself. There, you are now glowing from head to toe. Mix this up with Prestidigitation, and you've got one heck of an impressive lightshow going on.I've got to try this. And heck, this is the classic wizard "little ball of light hanging over your shoulder" spell.Isn't that a Lantern Archon Familiar? Bah! I don't play wizards (if I can help it), so this doesn't come up often. Prestidigiation: Mother of all Spells, if you aren't casting this one at least twice a day, you don't deserve to be playing an Arcane caster.Of I don't know. You can probably get away with casting it only once if you can convince your DM that it meant to say 1 hour/level. ;) Aside from the normal mundane uses, such as bathing and cleaning your cloths, you can use it to heat and flavor your food, meaning you eat well while everyone else is choking down their trail rations.Which means that when they finally get tired of it, you can extort money from them to fix theirs. :schemes: The Dampen effect is great when you're having to enter a burning building, just Dampen everything in front of you as you go.Even better: use burning hands to light some haystack or something on fire. Wait until a good-sized hole has been burnt, and then walk through it (dampened, of course). Let's just say that this trick is a good way to terrify and awe commoners into submission. Use this to make your eyes glow, your voice echo, sparks jump through your hair, your cloak blow and ruffle without any wind...I like using it with my Perform checks: use it to make some scraps of paper dance around and then do voices. And yes, it can turn water into wine, or at least make it look like wine, and taste like wine, but you'll never get drunk off it.And they wonder why Bards make such good diplomats... all the other ones are hung over! Long live the cantrips, the most powerful set of spells in the game!Yuppers. Why do you think WotC doesn't let you get Bonus cantrip slots? ;)
Deep Blue 9000 06-24-04, 03:58 AM	Cantrips are useful at any level. A few sessions ago the 26th level Incantatrix of our group cast prestidigitation to turn our clothes white so we could sneak around in white clothes for wind walk. If he hadn't memorized it we would probably have had to use our ring of three wishes to achieve the same effect.
BlaineTog 06-24-04, 03:58 AM	Originally posted by Incensius 2) Cure minor wounds: Cures ONLY 1 hp. Take it only if you think you’re gonna be desperate. No reason to take it otherwise….not in my opinion at least. The same goes for Inflict Minor wounds.Cure: good for stabilizing someone. If you cast the full CLW, they might try to get up (thus inflicting an AoO and getting whacked again). IMW, OTOH, is good for restartin' the bleeding. :devil:
Surgo 06-24-04, 04:40 PM	Perhaps, but isn't this what Darkvision is for? Isn't this supposed to be about cantrips? Besides, not everyone in the party has darkvision...
Krelios 06-24-04, 04:51 PM	Cantrips are useful at any level. A few sessions ago the 26th level Incantatrix of our group cast prestidigitation to turn our clothes white so we could sneak around in white clothes for wind walk. If he hadn't memorized it we would probably have had to use our ring of three wishes to achieve the same effect.That's beyond the ability of Prestidigitation. That's a spell called Veil, which is 6th level. Cantrips are great, as long as DMs don't let you abuse them.
Edward 06-24-04, 07:57 PM	Prestigitation has the ability to change something colour (within the 1 foot limit. Now if you take the necessary ~12 rounds per human sized pc to change the colour of your clothes to white you have white clothes for 1 hour. The tactic witch you say requires veil will work with prestigitation but it relies heavily on a large distance penalty to spot and the relative incompetents of those trying to observe you “commander there are 5 humanoid clouds moving towards us against the wind” is far less lily with the better spell. Edward
Zendu 06-24-04, 09:34 PM	persoanally i use arcane mark once a day, easy. I mark items ive made, use it to find my way thotough dungeons, or to tick of npcs (wont sell me something? good luck washing THIS off!)
BlaineTog 06-25-04, 01:56 PM	Originally posted by Surgo Isn't this supposed to be about cantrips? Besides, not everyone in the party has darkvision... I've never played in a party without a Dwarf, and all you really need is one person to see the monster and then relay it to everyone else.
SmiloDan 06-25-04, 06:05 PM	We had a kender bard charge an ogre skeleton (or zombie, I forget which, exactly) and cast Summon Instrument. I don't think he understood what it did. It's not like you can summon a piano over someone's head with it.
Edymnion 06-25-04, 11:37 PM	Originally posted by SmiloDan We had a kender bard charge an ogre skeleton (or zombie, I forget which, exactly) and cast Summon Instrument. I don't think he understood what it did. It's not like you can summon a piano over someone's head with it. Maybe he was just setting it up so he could cry "KABONG!!!!!" Sorry, really old referance...
diaboli 06-26-04, 12:50 AM	Originally posted by BlaineTog [Disrupt Undead I dislike this spell quite a bit. 1d6 damage is just too low for a touch attack. If it was ranged it might be worth it, but not touch. Undead generally don't have very high ACs so you'de be better off whacking it with your staff. It IS a ranged touch attack. It is great for softening up for the melee types, possibly allowing a cleave, or finishing them off (if they've taken any damage). The faster the undead drop, the fewer turning attempts the cleric has to make which frees him up to direct her divine energies elsewhere. It's also a great way to keep the more intelligent undead in line (if you're playing a necromancer). "Bad ghoul!"... Zzaap!... "Now what did I say about snacking on the townsfolk?!" Originally posted by J_Riley Touch of Fatigue - Sorry, I don't much know the effects of fatigue. I would assume some penalties to hit or some such. Sucks that it requires a touch attack. No wizard is likely to risk melee to effect a cantrip. But perhaps in a cloak & dagger campaign you could tire someone out and make them more succeptible to suggestion or something This is a great spell! At low levels it's a hold out in case your forced into melee. Cast defensively, smack the sucker with the spell, then take a 5ft step back. A 3rd level Wiz or 4th level Sorc will be able to cast Spectral Hand and deliver the spell from a distance, thus making it much more useful. Depending on what actions the DM considers to cause fatigue, you can get a lot of use out of this spell. Since there is no list of fatigue casuing actions (at least no one in my various play groups have yet to find any), you're only going to get as much use out of this spell as the DM permits. Fatigued: Tired to the point of impairment. A fatigued character can neither run nor charge and takes a –2 penalty to Strength and Dexterity. Doing anything that would normally cause fatigue causes the fatigued character to become exhausted. After 8 hours of complete rest, fatigued characters are no longer fatigued. [/i] Exhausted: Tired to the point of significant impairment. An exhausted character moves at half speed and takes a –6 penalty to Strength and Dexterity. After 1 hour of complete rest, an exhausted character becomes fatigued. A fatigued character becomes exhausted by doing something else that would normally cause fatigue. Prestidigitaion: Probably my favorite spell. Similar use, two different campaigns; 1. In town and needed to get into the town jail (non-viloently) during the day to talk to a prisoner. Gathered a bowl of a little stew, and disgusting stomach churning materials (just enough to get a reaction for the runs), used prestidigitation to make it smell and taste like yummy stew which was offered to guards (by the bard). Food didn't fit well with the guards stomach and the bard convinced the guards to let us watch the prisoners while they took a trip the outhouse. 2. One group found a Murlynd's Spoon. "Although this substance has a flavor similar to that of warm, wet cardboard, it is highly nourishing... The spoon can produce sufficient gruel each day to feed up to 4 humans." Prestidigitation makes this highly nourishing, smell and taste like roast venison stew, or whatever the flavor of the day.
BlaineTog 06-26-04, 01:28 AM	Originally posted by diaboli It IS a ranged touch attack.Well I'll be... coool. :cool:
Cyan Wisp 06-26-04, 03:05 AM	Originally posted by BlaineTog Technically doesn't work. Conjuration (Creation) spells always put their stuff flat on the ground. Sorry to rain on your parade (heh, heh), but as per the SRD: Create Water ...Water can be created in an area as small as will actually contain the liquid, or in an area three times as large— possibly creating a downpour or filling many small receptacles... Otherwise: Virtue: I have personally seen this make the difference between Up-and-At-Them & Down-For-the-Count (albeit at 1st level). Mending: Nice to have if your dagger has been sundered, I guess. :eek: Ray of Frost: Our party was getting hammered by some Brown Mould once, until, in desperation, I iced it with this beauty. Open/Close: Believe it or not, this was an integral part of our party's "Door Opening Strategy". Listen at door, if enemies were detected: stand back, bows at ready, Open, wait for floodgates to burst. Worked well, till I ran out of cantrips. Prestidigitation: Used this all the time to make goblin stew palatable, do laundry and annoy public speakers (a spreading yellow stain on their trousers? Eew!) :smirk: I've often wondered whether you could selectively colour items, so as to create shapes or letters. Might be nice to be able to write a message on something from a distance. Like "I am lying" on the mayor's vest while he's addressing the crowd. Hmmm.
Tanuki, the Bewildered 06-26-04, 03:21 AM	Originally posted by Edymnion Maybe he was just setting it up so he could cry "KABONG!!!!!" Sorry, really old referance... Untill he picked up his knives (about 2 months, realtime, into the campaign), my Bard (er...'my' as in I played him, not as in he was in the party in my game) was nicknamed El Kabong (OOC, of course. IC, he was more often 'that fop' at that point in the campaign.), because the closest thing he had to a weapon was his lute. Anyway...on topic: The Rogue in my game has a level of Wizard (backstory reasons, mostly). She LOOOOVES her Cantrips. Particularly Thunderhead (From Dragon #302 'A Clutch of Cantrips') and Prestidigitation. She uses those to annoy one of her assassin buddies. (Wait until she finds out, IC, that he suffers Light Blindness. :eek: :angel: )
preacher of nothing 06-26-04, 05:16 AM	hmmm...tanuki, think you could tell me where i could find that particular magazine? (on the net i mean)
Tanuki, the Bewildered 06-26-04, 06:07 AM	I'd go to Paizo's website to see if they have the back issue in stock.
BlaineTog 06-26-04, 01:33 PM	Originally posted by Cyan Wisp Sorry to rain on your parade (heh, heh), but as per the SRD: Create Water ...Water can be created in an area as small as will actually contain the liquid, or in an area three times as large— possibly creating a downpour or filling many small receptacles...Well I'll be. I need to re-read the Orisons more closely for exceptions such as this. Who knew that a simple cantrip would legally break the rules? :angel: Open/Close: Believe it or not, this was an integral part of our party's "Door Opening Strategy". Listen at door, if enemies were detected: stand back, bows at ready, Open, wait for floodgates to burst. Worked well, till I ran out of cantrips.You know, a wand of this baby is a mere 375 gp. Prestidigitation: Used this all the time to make goblin stew palatable, do laundry and annoy public speakers (a spreading yellow stain on their trousers? Eew!) :smirk:Thats mildy evil. :devil: Then again, is it ever evil to annoy politicians? The world may never know... I've often wondered whether you could selectively colour items, so as to create shapes or letters. Might be nice to be able to write a message on something from a distance. Like "I am lying" on the mayor's vest while he's addressing the crowd. Hmmm.Naw, that seems like its beyond the spell. Thats too close to Arcane Mark or mabe even Silent Image. Might make a good cantrip by itself, though.
Surgo 06-26-04, 02:03 PM	I've never played in a party without a Dwarf, and all you really need is one person to see the monster and then relay it to everyone else. That's if you aren't in combat with them. When you are, a simple "Hey guys, he's over here!" isn't going to work, especially if the guy your after can switch positions with the dwarf :p