captured RPing and alignment [Archive] - Wizards Community

captured RPing and alignment [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
aleph_woodenglenn
04-07-05, 01:46 PM so, my party got captured in its entirely by the evil bad guys. My characters (TN Fighter and CN sorc) and the rest of the party (a LG and CE cleric) got hired by a LG noble to retrieve such and such magical item. While sneaking unsuccessfully by the enemy camp we were overrun and captured.
my question is: if my characters volunteer to help their captors to save their necks, that would be no more evil than offering to help a LG noble get X for a large sum of money would be good, would it? I mean staying alive is a neutral motive, even if a modicum of betrayal is required?

One catch is that the LG noble is supposed to be an acquaintance of the sorc's parents. He is not too keen on his parents, but the noble holds him as trustworthy. The fighter is a mercenary type, so I doubt it would be an issue, but the sorc is pretty conscious of the importance of not letting down his parents.

How far can one go to save their own skin before they are considered doing evil? Would a neutral character only do the bare minimum to gain freedom, or could their whole motivation change if they are offered not only freedom, but other rewards (assuming the characters are unaware of how evil their captors' intentions really are)?
Callista
04-07-05, 03:52 PM Helping an evil person is an evil act, even if not doing so is risky. If it's done to save your life, though, it's only on the Evil side of Neutral; and you will drift towards Neutral, never Evil. I don't think Good/Evil is the issue here, though. It's Law/Chaos.

Your aim, I think, is to get away. If I'm correct in saying that you'd rather use a method that allowed you not to betray anyone, then your motives are Neutral. So you're better off trying to trick them rather than honestly helping them. Evil people will screw you over in the end, after all; so don't help them for any longer than you can help it.

However, there's a matter of honor (Law) involved, specifically for the LG guy. To him, you promise someone to do something--you do it. You don't betray people if you can help it. He won't want to switch sides (or he'll switch alignment away from Law); keeping promises tends to be important to Lawfuls.

The LG guy may be a problem, but so may the CE guy, for that matter (and how in the heck are these two working together?!); what're his plans? If he's thinking of throwing his lot in with the people who just captured you, you may have some friction going on--especially since they are both clerics.

However, for those of you who are non-Lawful, the idea of using trickery to get out seems like the best idea. It'll be more palatable to the Lawful guy than betrayal of your original employers (the only other option is death or something equally nasty, and he's probably not suicidal--even if he is, he'll get the party killed, too; so he'll probably have to live with a less-than-honorable solution).

my question is: if my characters volunteer to help their captors to save their necks, that would be no more evil than offering to help a LG noble get X for a large sum of money would be good, would it? I mean staying alive is a neutral motive, even if a modicum of betrayal is required?It would be on the Evil side of neutral, because you're helping a group of evil creatures (I assume) rather than a Good creature. Both acts are essentially Neutral, because you're doing them both for your own benefit (money and your life, respectively); but one is on the Good side and the other on the Evil side of N.

Here's what I suggest: Start out helping the enemy. Pretend to cooperate. Tell the Lawful guy just not to make any promises so his conscience is appeased, and have someone else do the talking. If you have to give out information, make sure it's not too damaging. If you have to betray people, find ways to warn them first. Then, as soon as you can, either escape or sabotage the enemy.

If escape immediately is not an option (is it? Do your clerics have their holy symbols--their spells may be useful?); then it seems like you're best off pretending so as to lull your enemies into a false sense of security before you do escape. Do a little info-gathering of your own, too; there are interesting things you can overhear while you are in an enemy camp, after all.

Regardless of what you do, one or the other of your Clerics could end up requiring an Atonement (and what is a CE guy doing taking jobs from a LG guy in the first place? He should already have gotten in trouble with his superiors, unless he has some ulterior motive). Still, it wouldn't be a major one; when your life is in danger, more can be excused than would normally be.
aleph_woodenglenn
04-07-05, 04:38 PM yeah the CE / LG clerics are the brain child of the other player (2 players 4 player characters...gestalt is not our thing) there is a great backstory. The CE had been brought up (a half-orc orphan) by clerics under the LG's god. The CE cleric ran away, tempted by evil and the LG cleric is charged with her redemption (of course the evil one feels charged to turn the good one to evil as well) now, something like "they are magically bound to one another... if one dies, the other....(something terrible)" so they hate each other, but watch each others back. I let it in in my adventure (we're swapping DM duty), and who am I to care, so long as its roleplayed well.
I have half a mind to just stick it to the LG character (but that would be both chaotic and ver very evil) because she is liable to foul up the whole escaping mess. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that her CE counterpart does it for me (this is all OoC of course...neither of the characters are that cruel).

I haven't talked to the other player, imagine the characters won't have a chance to talk it out in private either.

Evil people will screw you over in the end, after all; so don't help them for any longer than you can help it.this bit is what I'm more afraid of...Evil also makes it hard on the DM to keep the dungeon flowing as smoothly as she had planned.
Oh yeah and as far as not giving out too much information, almost all the info we had on the matter was in a book that we hadn't destroyed, so they have that now. But I imagine we'll get more info from these guys than we have from the people who have very secretively been prodding us forward (maybe this is the DM's intention?). Otherwise, my plan is basically the same as yours.
It is a good point that most of this is Chaotic rather than Evil...
thanks for the tips. I've never had a whole party captured before, I mean I've rescued single members and been captured once, but the whole party gets sticky, so any more suggestions is helpful. Also creative ways for an immediate escape will be entertained. My sorc doesn't have any spells that would be immediately helpful that I can figure.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
aleph_woodenglenn 04-07-05, 01:46 PM	so, my party got captured in its entirely by the evil bad guys. My characters (TN Fighter and CN sorc) and the rest of the party (a LG and CE cleric) got hired by a LG noble to retrieve such and such magical item. While sneaking unsuccessfully by the enemy camp we were overrun and captured. my question is: if my characters volunteer to help their captors to save their necks, that would be no more evil than offering to help a LG noble get X for a large sum of money would be good, would it? I mean staying alive is a neutral motive, even if a modicum of betrayal is required? One catch is that the LG noble is supposed to be an acquaintance of the sorc's parents. He is not too keen on his parents, but the noble holds him as trustworthy. The fighter is a mercenary type, so I doubt it would be an issue, but the sorc is pretty conscious of the importance of not letting down his parents. How far can one go to save their own skin before they are considered doing evil? Would a neutral character only do the bare minimum to gain freedom, or could their whole motivation change if they are offered not only freedom, but other rewards (assuming the characters are unaware of how evil their captors' intentions really are)?
Callista 04-07-05, 03:52 PM	Helping an evil person is an evil act, even if not doing so is risky. If it's done to save your life, though, it's only on the Evil side of Neutral; and you will drift towards Neutral, never Evil. I don't think Good/Evil is the issue here, though. It's Law/Chaos. Your aim, I think, is to get away. If I'm correct in saying that you'd rather use a method that allowed you not to betray anyone, then your motives are Neutral. So you're better off trying to trick them rather than honestly helping them. Evil people will screw you over in the end, after all; so don't help them for any longer than you can help it. However, there's a matter of honor (Law) involved, specifically for the LG guy. To him, you promise someone to do something--you do it. You don't betray people if you can help it. He won't want to switch sides (or he'll switch alignment away from Law); keeping promises tends to be important to Lawfuls. The LG guy may be a problem, but so may the CE guy, for that matter (and how in the heck are these two working together?!); what're his plans? If he's thinking of throwing his lot in with the people who just captured you, you may have some friction going on--especially since they are both clerics. However, for those of you who are non-Lawful, the idea of using trickery to get out seems like the best idea. It'll be more palatable to the Lawful guy than betrayal of your original employers (the only other option is death or something equally nasty, and he's probably not suicidal--even if he is, he'll get the party killed, too; so he'll probably have to live with a less-than-honorable solution). my question is: if my characters volunteer to help their captors to save their necks, that would be no more evil than offering to help a LG noble get X for a large sum of money would be good, would it? I mean staying alive is a neutral motive, even if a modicum of betrayal is required?It would be on the Evil side of neutral, because you're helping a group of evil creatures (I assume) rather than a Good creature. Both acts are essentially Neutral, because you're doing them both for your own benefit (money and your life, respectively); but one is on the Good side and the other on the Evil side of N. Here's what I suggest: Start out helping the enemy. Pretend to cooperate. Tell the Lawful guy just not to make any promises so his conscience is appeased, and have someone else do the talking. If you have to give out information, make sure it's not too damaging. If you have to betray people, find ways to warn them first. Then, as soon as you can, either escape or sabotage the enemy. If escape immediately is not an option (is it? Do your clerics have their holy symbols--their spells may be useful?); then it seems like you're best off pretending so as to lull your enemies into a false sense of security before you do escape. Do a little info-gathering of your own, too; there are interesting things you can overhear while you are in an enemy camp, after all. Regardless of what you do, one or the other of your Clerics could end up requiring an Atonement (and what is a CE guy doing taking jobs from a LG guy in the first place? He should already have gotten in trouble with his superiors, unless he has some ulterior motive). Still, it wouldn't be a major one; when your life is in danger, more can be excused than would normally be.
aleph_woodenglenn 04-07-05, 04:38 PM	yeah the CE / LG clerics are the brain child of the other player (2 players 4 player characters...gestalt is not our thing) there is a great backstory. The CE had been brought up (a half-orc orphan) by clerics under the LG's god. The CE cleric ran away, tempted by evil and the LG cleric is charged with her redemption (of course the evil one feels charged to turn the good one to evil as well) now, something like "they are magically bound to one another... if one dies, the other....(something terrible)" so they hate each other, but watch each others back. I let it in in my adventure (we're swapping DM duty), and who am I to care, so long as its roleplayed well. I have half a mind to just stick it to the LG character (but that would be both chaotic and ver very evil) because she is liable to foul up the whole escaping mess. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that her CE counterpart does it for me (this is all OoC of course...neither of the characters are that cruel). I haven't talked to the other player, imagine the characters won't have a chance to talk it out in private either. Evil people will screw you over in the end, after all; so don't help them for any longer than you can help it.this bit is what I'm more afraid of...Evil also makes it hard on the DM to keep the dungeon flowing as smoothly as she had planned. Oh yeah and as far as not giving out too much information, almost all the info we had on the matter was in a book that we hadn't destroyed, so they have that now. But I imagine we'll get more info from these guys than we have from the people who have very secretively been prodding us forward (maybe this is the DM's intention?). Otherwise, my plan is basically the same as yours. It is a good point that most of this is Chaotic rather than Evil... thanks for the tips. I've never had a whole party captured before, I mean I've rescued single members and been captured once, but the whole party gets sticky, so any more suggestions is helpful. Also creative ways for an immediate escape will be entertained. My sorc doesn't have any spells that would be immediately helpful that I can figure.