Castle-building fun (Go necromancy) [Archive] - Wizards Community

Castle-building fun (Go necromancy) [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
tos_shai_hulud
12-29-07, 10:38 PM I have always been a big fan of the Stronghold Builder's Guidebook in theory, but overall have had very little use for it. Gathering the wealth needed for anything in the book has always seemed a bit beyond reach, not to mention commissioning all of the labor would be tricky, etc.

So I started considering alternatives which might allow me access to a stronghold. If I built a necromancer, took Leadership at 6th level, perhaps my DM would allow me to keep all of my followers back at the site of my future stronghold digging, mining, etc. They do all of the work. As a necromancer, I can gather together a ton of slave labor, as well (animate lots of undead). I started thinking about how difficult it must be to move some of the heavy stones, so I considered what type of creature would be ideal for castle-building. I looked into every creature in the monster manual and found the winner!

The behir, 9 HD, Huge has a strength of 26. This is nothing special, but should I be able to find an advanced behir with 14 HD, it is gargantuan with 35 strength (assuming that it put its ability score point at 12 HD into strength). If I chose Dread Necromancer or the Corpsecrafter feat, it gains a +4 enhancement bonus to strength, giving it a 39 strength. For a gargantuan dodecaped, that gives it a light load of 22,400 lbs!!! With its climb speed of 15 feet, it can carry stones up walls as needed, provided they can support its weight.

My DM has allowed me to find the corpses of a couple advanced behirs (at least 14 HD) to animate as work-horses. My question is, how much time/energy do you think they will save in building a stronghold? My DM is being very lax about all of it, as he loves my ideas for developing my stronghold. He says that the amount of energy that I am putting into it is well equal to the actual cost of it. I already told him that I would keep coming up with time-saving ideas until my stronghold is finished. Does anyone else have any nifty ideas?

I have the followers, I have the undead, I have the mines, I have the skeletal behirs. I am starting to run out of ideas to help this project move along :-P.
Ace_of_time
12-30-07, 02:50 AM Material Component: A clay pot filled with grave dirt and another filled with brackish water. The spell must be cast on a dead body. You must place a black onyx gem worth at least 50 gp per HD of the undead to be created into the mouth or eye socket of each corpse. The magic of the spell turns these gems into worthless shells Wouldn't it just cost less to do it the reg way. Free lobar doesn't really take that much off the total prices. I think it is 20% but it has been a while since I looked.
tos_shai_hulud
12-30-07, 07:46 AM You are looking at the cost for Create Undead. Animate Dead is what is used to create skeletons. So, a 14 HD skeleton would cost 350gp. My stronghold's costs are scheduled at something like 500,000gp (it is a huge stronghold). With my army of undead labor (268 HD currently), it cost me 6,700gp worth of onyx (I only use skeletons to maximize my building ability, not combat ability). I have several skeletons with burrowing ability. Several skeletons with incredible carrying capacities and climbing ability. All in all, I am getting the stronghold for feeding my followers, and that is all. They are creating everything. It is progressing far more slowly than if I were to build it by paying the 500,000gp, but it is essentially free. My DM is not calculating how long it should take (I suppose he could be figuring out how much money's worth my followers are crafting on a weekly basis and once that amount equals the 500,000+gp that my stronghold needs, he can declare that my stronghold is complete, but I doubt he is doing that). Pretty much, the more ideas I throw at him to improve the speed of building, the faster he will say it will be done. He is playing it pretty loosely. I am looking for creativity.
tos_shai_hulud
12-30-07, 08:05 AM One idea that I had was to try to steal the secrets of the Ritual of Crucimigration (the ritual needed to turn a humanoid into a necropolitan). Since I have the Undead Leadership feat, all of my followers can be necropolitans. Then, I slaughter all of my 1st level followers for "being unworthy". I perform the ritual upon all of my 2nd level+ followers (who become 1st level+ necropolitans). Then, I begin recruiting additional followers of 2nd level+ only (ignoring the first level slots) because each 2nd level follower that I find turns into a 1st level necropolitan with no level adjustment. This allows me to fill my ranks with intelligent undead who don't have any upkeep costs and can work 24 hours a day.

The DM thought that was a bit too powerful for what would happen after the stronghold completion (i.e. having an army of intelligent undead at my disposal), so he said that the taint of evil would be noticed by religious orders and they would descend upon me with vengeance, so I opted not to go that route :-P. If anyone has another idea for how I can turn my followers into undead without mass murders and evil rituals and still maintain their intellect, please let me know.
R4za
12-30-07, 02:52 PM I thought only zombies kept alternative movement speeds?
tos_shai_hulud
12-30-07, 03:45 PM Size and Type
The creature’s type changes to undead. It retains any subtype except for alignment subtypes (such as good) and subtypes that indicate kind. It does not gain the augmented subtype. It uses all the base creature’s statistics and special abilities except as noted here.

Speed
Winged skeletons can’t use their wings to fly. If the base creature flew magically, so can the skeleton.

Aside from not being able to fly, they keep all forms of movement.
BrianMc223
12-30-07, 03:55 PM Never mind. (Wow, that wasn't even a ninja.)
Ace_of_time
12-30-07, 08:13 PM I will have to look it up but the 500,000 GP is total cost including supplies for building it. Free labor would only take off so much.
fighter_mcwarrior
12-30-07, 08:38 PM I think you can eliminate a lot of the cost by having the party bard use a lyre of building.
tos_shai_hulud
12-31-07, 05:30 PM I will have to look it up but the 500,000 GP is total cost including supplies for building it. Free labor would only take off so much.

True, but as I mentioned above, I have miners (who can make Profession - Miner checks) and crafters (who can make craft checks). With the builders, the miners, and the crafters, I will wind up with the supplies for free (because the profession - Miner checks provide raw materials which can be used for the Craft checks to triple their value).
Dravda
12-31-07, 07:54 PM One idea that I had was to try to steal the secrets of the Ritual of Crucimigration (the ritual needed to turn a humanoid into a necropolitan). Since I have the Undead Leadership feat, all of my followers can be necropolitans. Then, I slaughter all of my 1st level followers for "being unworthy". I perform the ritual upon all of my 2nd level+ followers (who become 1st level+ necropolitans). Then, I begin recruiting additional followers of 2nd level+ only (ignoring the first level slots) because each 2nd level follower that I find turns into a 1st level necropolitan with no level adjustment. This allows me to fill my ranks with intelligent undead who don't have any upkeep costs and can work 24 hours a day.

I hate to break it to you, but becoming a Necropolitan makes you lose a level, and then 1000 xp. So that would kill your 2nd level followers as well. You need to be 3rd level at least to survive the ritual.

But seriously, why not consider attacking and taking over an existing castle/fortress? That's what my group did. We've found renovations to be considerably less expensive than an entirely new stronghold.

-Count Dravda
IceFractal
12-31-07, 08:53 PM If you're going for undead followers anyway, the Undead Leadership feat would save the need for manually reanimating them. If you make the higher-level ones Necropolitan Clerics, you can pass control of some "worker" undead to them.
Ace_of_time
12-31-07, 11:55 PM What about awaken undead?
tos_shai_hulud
01-01-08, 12:20 PM What about awaken undead?

That is an awesome idea! It doesn't grant skill points, but you can make craft checks untrained! Thank you!

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
tos_shai_hulud 12-29-07, 10:38 PM	I have always been a big fan of the Stronghold Builder's Guidebook in theory, but overall have had very little use for it. Gathering the wealth needed for anything in the book has always seemed a bit beyond reach, not to mention commissioning all of the labor would be tricky, etc. So I started considering alternatives which might allow me access to a stronghold. If I built a necromancer, took Leadership at 6th level, perhaps my DM would allow me to keep all of my followers back at the site of my future stronghold digging, mining, etc. They do all of the work. As a necromancer, I can gather together a ton of slave labor, as well (animate lots of undead). I started thinking about how difficult it must be to move some of the heavy stones, so I considered what type of creature would be ideal for castle-building. I looked into every creature in the monster manual and found the winner! The behir, 9 HD, Huge has a strength of 26. This is nothing special, but should I be able to find an advanced behir with 14 HD, it is gargantuan with 35 strength (assuming that it put its ability score point at 12 HD into strength). If I chose Dread Necromancer or the Corpsecrafter feat, it gains a +4 enhancement bonus to strength, giving it a 39 strength. For a gargantuan dodecaped, that gives it a light load of 22,400 lbs!!! With its climb speed of 15 feet, it can carry stones up walls as needed, provided they can support its weight. My DM has allowed me to find the corpses of a couple advanced behirs (at least 14 HD) to animate as work-horses. My question is, how much time/energy do you think they will save in building a stronghold? My DM is being very lax about all of it, as he loves my ideas for developing my stronghold. He says that the amount of energy that I am putting into it is well equal to the actual cost of it. I already told him that I would keep coming up with time-saving ideas until my stronghold is finished. Does anyone else have any nifty ideas? I have the followers, I have the undead, I have the mines, I have the skeletal behirs. I am starting to run out of ideas to help this project move along :-P.
Ace_of_time 12-30-07, 02:50 AM	Material Component: A clay pot filled with grave dirt and another filled with brackish water. The spell must be cast on a dead body. You must place a black onyx gem worth at least 50 gp per HD of the undead to be created into the mouth or eye socket of each corpse. The magic of the spell turns these gems into worthless shells Wouldn't it just cost less to do it the reg way. Free lobar doesn't really take that much off the total prices. I think it is 20% but it has been a while since I looked.
tos_shai_hulud 12-30-07, 07:46 AM	You are looking at the cost for Create Undead. Animate Dead is what is used to create skeletons. So, a 14 HD skeleton would cost 350gp. My stronghold's costs are scheduled at something like 500,000gp (it is a huge stronghold). With my army of undead labor (268 HD currently), it cost me 6,700gp worth of onyx (I only use skeletons to maximize my building ability, not combat ability). I have several skeletons with burrowing ability. Several skeletons with incredible carrying capacities and climbing ability. All in all, I am getting the stronghold for feeding my followers, and that is all. They are creating everything. It is progressing far more slowly than if I were to build it by paying the 500,000gp, but it is essentially free. My DM is not calculating how long it should take (I suppose he could be figuring out how much money's worth my followers are crafting on a weekly basis and once that amount equals the 500,000+gp that my stronghold needs, he can declare that my stronghold is complete, but I doubt he is doing that). Pretty much, the more ideas I throw at him to improve the speed of building, the faster he will say it will be done. He is playing it pretty loosely. I am looking for creativity.
tos_shai_hulud 12-30-07, 08:05 AM	One idea that I had was to try to steal the secrets of the Ritual of Crucimigration (the ritual needed to turn a humanoid into a necropolitan). Since I have the Undead Leadership feat, all of my followers can be necropolitans. Then, I slaughter all of my 1st level followers for "being unworthy". I perform the ritual upon all of my 2nd level+ followers (who become 1st level+ necropolitans). Then, I begin recruiting additional followers of 2nd level+ only (ignoring the first level slots) because each 2nd level follower that I find turns into a 1st level necropolitan with no level adjustment. This allows me to fill my ranks with intelligent undead who don't have any upkeep costs and can work 24 hours a day. The DM thought that was a bit too powerful for what would happen after the stronghold completion (i.e. having an army of intelligent undead at my disposal), so he said that the taint of evil would be noticed by religious orders and they would descend upon me with vengeance, so I opted not to go that route :-P. If anyone has another idea for how I can turn my followers into undead without mass murders and evil rituals and still maintain their intellect, please let me know.
R4za 12-30-07, 02:52 PM	I thought only zombies kept alternative movement speeds?
tos_shai_hulud 12-30-07, 03:45 PM	Size and Type The creature’s type changes to undead. It retains any subtype except for alignment subtypes (such as good) and subtypes that indicate kind. It does not gain the augmented subtype. It uses all the base creature’s statistics and special abilities except as noted here. Speed Winged skeletons can’t use their wings to fly. If the base creature flew magically, so can the skeleton. Aside from not being able to fly, they keep all forms of movement.
BrianMc223 12-30-07, 03:55 PM	Never mind. (Wow, that wasn't even a ninja.)
Ace_of_time 12-30-07, 08:13 PM	I will have to look it up but the 500,000 GP is total cost including supplies for building it. Free labor would only take off so much.
fighter_mcwarrior 12-30-07, 08:38 PM	I think you can eliminate a lot of the cost by having the party bard use a lyre of building.
tos_shai_hulud 12-31-07, 05:30 PM	I will have to look it up but the 500,000 GP is total cost including supplies for building it. Free labor would only take off so much. True, but as I mentioned above, I have miners (who can make Profession - Miner checks) and crafters (who can make craft checks). With the builders, the miners, and the crafters, I will wind up with the supplies for free (because the profession - Miner checks provide raw materials which can be used for the Craft checks to triple their value).
Dravda 12-31-07, 07:54 PM	One idea that I had was to try to steal the secrets of the Ritual of Crucimigration (the ritual needed to turn a humanoid into a necropolitan). Since I have the Undead Leadership feat, all of my followers can be necropolitans. Then, I slaughter all of my 1st level followers for "being unworthy". I perform the ritual upon all of my 2nd level+ followers (who become 1st level+ necropolitans). Then, I begin recruiting additional followers of 2nd level+ only (ignoring the first level slots) because each 2nd level follower that I find turns into a 1st level necropolitan with no level adjustment. This allows me to fill my ranks with intelligent undead who don't have any upkeep costs and can work 24 hours a day. I hate to break it to you, but becoming a Necropolitan makes you lose a level, and then 1000 xp. So that would kill your 2nd level followers as well. You need to be 3rd level at least to survive the ritual. But seriously, why not consider attacking and taking over an existing castle/fortress? That's what my group did. We've found renovations to be considerably less expensive than an entirely new stronghold. -Count Dravda
IceFractal 12-31-07, 08:53 PM	If you're going for undead followers anyway, the Undead Leadership feat would save the need for manually reanimating them. If you make the higher-level ones Necropolitan Clerics, you can pass control of some "worker" undead to them.
Ace_of_time 12-31-07, 11:55 PM	What about awaken undead?
tos_shai_hulud 01-01-08, 12:20 PM	What about awaken undead? That is an awesome idea! It doesn't grant skill points, but you can make craft checks untrained! Thank you!