Chaotic Avenger? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Chaotic Avenger? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Cariyaga
08-10-07, 06:20 PM It doesn't seem to make much sense to me that an Avenger can't be chaotic, but still. I was wondering, one, why an Avenger can't be chaotic, and two, what would a good argument be for a chaotic (good) avenger.

I'm in a game on RPoL, and my rogue fits the Avenger perfectly. Perfectly, I tells ye! Seriously, though, he's a member of a guild, he's going to kill someone to protect his homeland (about to right now)

I know it can't have anything to do with discipline, despite what the blasted bad explanations on the monk class might tell you. Eh. Don't make this into an alignment debate. Please.
Cariyaga
08-12-07, 05:51 PM BUMP!
DCAnderson
08-12-07, 05:53 PM What's an Avenger?
Cariyaga
08-12-07, 09:08 PM I assumed that everyone here read the articles. They're assassin variants. There's a Wizards' article on them here.
DCAnderson
08-12-07, 09:09 PM Link?
Cariyaga
08-12-07, 09:25 PM I'm afraid that I can't get it. I'm on my Wii right now, on vacation, and it doesn't show URLs. It's in the Prestige Class section.
DCAnderson
08-12-07, 09:40 PM http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/prc/20070401a

I think the reason they made him non-chaotic is because of this:

"What is the death of single man when weighed against the survival of our nation? Is his destruction, no matter how effected, an act of evil if it averts untold suffering and death?"

This is almost a textbook definition of the philosophy of Utilitarianism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utilitarianism), which in DnD terms could be viewed as a very "lawful" philosophy.

But considering that Avenger is basically an example Assassin variant with one of the prereqs changed, I'd just say talk it over with your DM and see if he'd be willing to tweak the rules to accomadate your character concept.
Callista
08-12-07, 09:55 PM It's pretty simple to change the PrC: If he has no abilities that are explicitly, obviously Lawful, then it's just fluff text, and you can change that without any balance problems. If you really want an alignment restriction, you could change it to the opposite--can't be Lawful.

If there is such an ability, and it has an exact opposite, then change it to its opposite. Let's say he has Detect Chaos... your variant would have Detect Law.

Most DMs would say "OK" to that kind of change, if you make it obvious you're changing flavor rather than mechanics. I would, and I've been known to run Core-only games (because the newbie players didn't have a lot of books, but still.).
Cariyaga
08-13-07, 03:23 AM Actually, to me, that statement, if not the concept would be chaotic. But perhaps I am thinking too much on the CG to LG axis. Thanks, though.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Cariyaga 08-10-07, 06:20 PM	It doesn't seem to make much sense to me that an Avenger can't be chaotic, but still. I was wondering, one, why an Avenger can't be chaotic, and two, what would a good argument be for a chaotic (good) avenger. I'm in a game on RPoL, and my rogue fits the Avenger perfectly. Perfectly, I tells ye! Seriously, though, he's a member of a guild, he's going to kill someone to protect his homeland (about to right now) I know it can't have anything to do with discipline, despite what the blasted bad explanations on the monk class might tell you. Eh. Don't make this into an alignment debate. Please.
Cariyaga 08-12-07, 05:51 PM	BUMP!
DCAnderson 08-12-07, 05:53 PM	What's an Avenger?
Cariyaga 08-12-07, 09:08 PM	I assumed that everyone here read the articles. They're assassin variants. There's a Wizards' article on them here.
DCAnderson 08-12-07, 09:09 PM	Link?
Cariyaga 08-12-07, 09:25 PM	I'm afraid that I can't get it. I'm on my Wii right now, on vacation, and it doesn't show URLs. It's in the Prestige Class section.
DCAnderson 08-12-07, 09:40 PM	http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/prc/20070401a I think the reason they made him non-chaotic is because of this: "What is the death of single man when weighed against the survival of our nation? Is his destruction, no matter how effected, an act of evil if it averts untold suffering and death?" This is almost a textbook definition of the philosophy of Utilitarianism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utilitarianism), which in DnD terms could be viewed as a very "lawful" philosophy. But considering that Avenger is basically an example Assassin variant with one of the prereqs changed, I'd just say talk it over with your DM and see if he'd be willing to tweak the rules to accomadate your character concept.
Callista 08-12-07, 09:55 PM	It's pretty simple to change the PrC: If he has no abilities that are explicitly, obviously Lawful, then it's just fluff text, and you can change that without any balance problems. If you really want an alignment restriction, you could change it to the opposite--can't be Lawful. If there is such an ability, and it has an exact opposite, then change it to its opposite. Let's say he has Detect Chaos... your variant would have Detect Law. Most DMs would say "OK" to that kind of change, if you make it obvious you're changing flavor rather than mechanics. I would, and I've been known to run Core-only games (because the newbie players didn't have a lot of books, but still.).
Cariyaga 08-13-07, 03:23 AM	Actually, to me, that statement, if not the concept would be chaotic. But perhaps I am thinking too much on the CG to LG axis. Thanks, though.