| Post/Author/DateTime | Post |
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| Thought11-21-06, 10:46 AM | Recently I joined a group and rolled up a Chaotic Good Bugbear (homebrew setting, so Bugbears can be CG, it is just unusual). The characters current motivation is a desire to improve the reputation of bugbears everywhere; he believes bugbears are only evil because people expect them to be evil and hopes to lead his people into more amendable relationships with other species by example. My problem is that I can't seem to play the Chaotic part of Chaotic Good very well. Oh, he'll randomly feel like doing a Good deed for some people and not others, but I find that I am making and keeping oaths (which seems lawful). Just in general I am unsure of how to express his chaotic-ness. If someone gives me treasure in good faith that I will deliver it, it seems evil (or at least neutral) to keep the treasure instead, but at the same time that also seems lawful. How can I handle treasure, battle, and so forth, more chaotically? Are there any tips or things that I should consider to help develop this side of the character? Thanks in advance. |
| SeattleLightning11-21-06, 11:33 AM | Well, alignment is one of those things that is largely up to interpretation. This is exemplified by the constant "what alignment is Captain Picard" threads in which ten people give you ten different answers, despite the fact that there are supposed to be only nine alignments. That being said, my personal take on Chaotic is "by any means necessary". Anyone with a chaotic descriptor in their alignment is more likely to move toward their goals by any means necessary, as opposed to sticking to traditional norms and standards. Robin Hood is a classic example of neutral good, if not chaotic good. He helped people even though what he was doing was illegal. Likewise an eco-terrorist or someone who bombs abortion clinics are people that I would consider to have strong chaotic tendencies (note that I am not making any judgement as to whether or not they're good or evil). Another thing to keep in mind is that two people who are Chaotic Good can easily be very different. Chaotic Good, as I take it, is the general tendancy of the character. A CG (I'm tired of typing out the whole alignment) character for instance might be very lawful with their regards toward matters of love, or strictly with their views on... I don't know... training with weapons, but otherwise live a very chaotic lifestyle. Likewise, one CG character might think that sentient life is important, but non-sentient life is not, willingly sacrificing thousands of giant ants to save one measly halfling. Another might find the waste of life, any life, deplorable. Chaotic-anything (good in particular) are very difficult alignments for me to play. As a person, I judge myself to be Lawful Neutral with slight good tendencies. In D&D, I gravitate toward Lawful Evil, enjoying the fantasy of playing Evil without the constrants of affecting anything in the real world. As a result, Chaotic Good is a polar opposite for me. One thing that always bothers me is when Chaotic is treated as "random", which I think is hardly accurate. Few characters are random, the few I can think of off the top of my head are the Joker and Two Face from Batman, and Madcap from Marvel. Chaotic, IMHO, is simply someone who accomplishes their goals with little regard for given traditions, standards, and norms. Jay from Clerks (or any of the other Kevin Smith movies) would be Chaotic... something. |
| Kradlo11-21-06, 11:37 AM | I'd say concentrate on roleplaying a personality, not a category. Chaotic Good is a basic outline, but how you flesh out the character is far more important. If in the end the GM determines that his alignment differs from CG, don't worry about it. You might wind up NG, LG, or whatever. You have a character concept in mind - a bit of a weird one, admittedly, but a concept. He might be sadly deluded in his belief that the rest of the bugbear race is just misunderstood and unfairly maligned. His attempts to improve the reputation of his race may end in utter futility. Or not; what happens in the game is up to your GM. But do everything you can to breathe life into the character, and give him depth beyond the X-Y grid of Law/Chaos and Good/Evil. If you think of him as free spirited, independent by nature, and given to defying tradition and authority, that could be your way of reflecting the chaotic side of his personality. He might have a personal code without being lawful, but might break even his own rules if he felt it was important. In any event, have fun! |
| Clawhound11-21-06, 12:05 PM | For me, chaotic good is about an idea. You strive for that ideal. "All men are created equal," is your idea, so you smuggle escaping slaves because what the law says is wrong. |
| Sulaco11-21-06, 12:59 PM | Think Dirty Harry, Riggs from Leathal Weapon, or any other renegade-cop type. You know, the guys who are always getting in trouble from the lieutenant, having to hand in their badge, stuff like that. The guys who go outside the rules to get the bad guy. That is Chaotic Good. |
| Thought11-21-06, 02:08 PM | Thank you, everyone. I wanted him to still have a recognizable behavioral trait with other bugbears (hence, chaotic) and I just wasn't sure how chaos might manifest itself in a person's character. Needless to say I don't want him to be just a sum of high alignment, but as I am continuing to develop who he actually is in my head the alignment talk seemed like a good start. I think the idea of him being devoted to an ideal and pursuing it by any means necessary will really help in me giving him guidance. Thank you all again, everyone. As for Jay, I'd say he is the perfect example of Chaotic Stupid ;) His reaction when he saw God in Dogma being a good example, I think. |
| MareltEkiran11-21-06, 02:15 PM | One of the stronger Chaotic Good trait, in my opinion, is that you probably have a strong dislike for bullies. Especially if said bully badgers other people around because of his standing in the social order. If you see a noble being mean to a serving girl, just because he can get away with it, it is your duty as a Chaotic Good character to walk up to him and give him a wedgie. As for oaths... a Chaotic Good character would be highly distrustful of them. If the intend of the oath is for the greater good, he would probably do what the oath asked of him, but only because it is good. Not for the oath's sake itself. At the very least, he would be highly suspiscious as to why someone would ask an oath to do good things and start looking for a double meaning. But this is a common dilemma. A Chaotic Good character does not oppose a Lawful Good society, because the good alignments don't fight amongst each other. The Chaotic Good character would probably just find the society too "stuffy" and realize that he simply has no place in it... Just like the band of Robin Hood broke up when a rightful Lawful Good king ascended to the throne of England. In a Lawful Good society, Chaotic Good characters generally leave the civilized areas and become pioneers or frontiermen. |
| High Octane11-21-06, 05:27 PM | Bat. Man. |
| Sulaco11-21-06, 05:40 PM | <ignore> |
| Witch11-21-06, 05:43 PM | Bat. Man. Care to give some reasoning for that? |
| Asciiman11-21-06, 06:00 PM | Bat. Man. Hasn't this one been brought up in it's own thread that went on about 8 pages? And the general... reaction was that there are VERY good arguments for Batman to be all 9 alignments. The point being... don't bring this one up again, it'll last forever if we do. |
| High Octane11-21-06, 06:38 PM | Care to give some reasoning for that? Nothing more chaotic good than a vigilante. He distrusts authority (hence why so few people know his identity). He tends to work alone. Ascii has a point though. Will refuse to argue. Chaotic would be about freedom. Individuality. Rules Schmules. The Punisher is a bit better of an example, but he isnt the most "good". Chaotic Good character do what they feel in their hearts, what THEY decided is right, and do it for the benefit of others. |
| Witch11-21-06, 07:07 PM | Chaotic Good character do what they feel in their hearts, what THEY decided is right, and do it for the benefit of others. All Good characters do what they themselves believe is right, and do it for the benefit of others. |
| High Octane11-21-06, 08:49 PM | All Good characters do what they themselves believe is right, and do it for the benefit of others. Yes but Lawful good characters tend to follow a code taught or created by others, or adhere to a stricter set of personally made rules. They are more structured, less dynamic. They say they will never steal, they will never steal even to feed a hungry orphan. A chaotic good character will steal to feed the child. The thing is, neither is more good than the other. A lawful good character is limited by his rules. A chaotic good characters lack of consistency means his good deeds will lack a lasting effect, and can easily lead to him doing the wrong thing if he forgets what he was trying for. Neutral good tries to stay consistent, but leaves plenty of room for exceptions. |
| Vaelan11-22-06, 02:00 AM | My problem is that I can't seem to play the Chaotic part of Chaotic Good very well. Oh, he'll randomly feel like doing a Good deed for some people and not others, but I find that I am making and keeping oaths (which seems lawful). Just in general I am unsure of how to express his chaotic-ness. If someone gives me treasure in good faith that I will deliver it, it seems evil (or at least neutral) to keep the treasure instead, but at the same time that also seems lawful. How can I handle treasure, battle, and so forth, more chaotically? First of all, Chaotic is not random. Second, following one's conscience is a trait that the PHB associates with Chaotic characters. When you do anything because your conscience demands it, you are exhibiting Chaotic tendencies. |
| Archangel6211-22-06, 02:06 AM | Bat. Man. I've considered him to be closer to Lawful Evil actually but that's just me. |
| pinkbunny11-22-06, 05:29 AM | the most important thing is to help people, you will try very hard to do that. a prime example of CG is my character carrying an unconcious, starving guard dog through an entire dungeon, despite the fact that they attacked us. I ended up feeding him when he woke up, and he was nice. but he could just as easily have tried to rip my throat out. sometimes CG means taking the fall. also remember, you can lie and break whatever promises you make if the situation strongly demeands it. GO CG! ++now ending disjointed, chaotic rant++ |
| High Octane11-22-06, 12:05 PM | First of all, Chaotic is not random. QFT. Chaotic means dynamic, whimsical. In the moment. |
| Weirgreif12-01-06, 04:53 AM | I had a party full of chaotic types; we navigated dungeons by whoever made the first suggestion. A lawful party might have a Standard Operating Procedure of "we always turn left", but to be chaotic good you must search your feelings! In your heart you will know which corridor is true! I really should stop posting at 4 AM. >.> |
| DyingHopes12-01-06, 09:00 AM | I would say, that chaotic characters love freedom and hate to be under the lead of someone else. Good characters want to be good and try to do good. That does not mean thay are pacifists to me. Beeing a chaotic good character means to me that you will do what you claim to be good, basing on your personal experience. Basically you have head of your own. And you are armed to the teeth. |
| AJ_Impy12-01-06, 10:14 AM | An alternate way to look at Chaotic Good is to examine its antithesis, that which it opposes. Lawful Evil is harsh control and tyranny, fascism and nepotism, corrupting the rules to your benefit and the detriment of others. It is working the system from within, knowing what strings to pull, abusing what should be there for everyone's benefit so that you come out on top. That is what an idealist CG character is utterly opposed to. The iron fist and the secret police he will not yield to. Those who lawyerishly twist the fabric of the state to oppress others must be stopped, even if that means acting outside of the rules they know and weasel around so well. Corrupt fat cats scratching each other's backs and promoting through favouritism disgust him, as a repugnant counterpoint to each individual being judged on merit. Prejudice is vile: Any system that says 'All of group X always do Y' suppresses the individual, suppresses free thought and tries to file away that group into a nice little box, dehumanizing (Or de-elfizing, degoblinizing etc) them into an objective, collective thing. When you clearly see what you're willing to make a stand against, you understand exactly where you stand. |
| Sereno12-01-06, 11:31 AM | Think Dirty Harry, Riggs from Leathal Weapon, or any other renegade-cop type. You know, the guys who are always getting in trouble from the lieutenant, having to hand in their badge, stuff like that. The guys who go outside the rules to get the bad guy. That is Chaotic Good. Exactly. I think CG is actually one of the easiest alignments to play. Simply be good (don't hurt innocents, go out of your way to be cruel, kill unnecessarily, etc), but you don't have to play by all of the rules. Batman, Robin Hood, Waylander, (early) Aragorn, Drizzt ... all good examples. |
| Vestigial_Thumb12-01-06, 12:19 PM | Think Dirty Harry, Riggs from Leathal Weapon, or any other renegade-cop type. You know, the guys who are always getting in trouble from the lieutenant, having to hand in their badge, stuff like that. The guys who go outside the rules to get the bad guy. That is Chaotic Good. And it doesn't hurt if you yell "I get results damnit!" too. You could also say "Screw protocol!" or "I quit!" (to the Paladin). |
| High Octane12-01-06, 01:27 PM | Think about doing the right thing, right now. |
| Archangel6212-01-06, 01:57 PM | I had a party full of chaotic types; we navigated dungeons by whoever made the first suggestion. A lawful party might have a Standard Operating Procedure of "we always turn left", but to be chaotic good you must search your feelings! In your heart you will know which corridor is true! I really should stop posting at 4 AM. >.> However if that was the game I think it was you guys also were quite charismatic and were also very effective. Maybe your chaotic natures kept each of you from getting in the way of the others and instead made you each look for little subtle ways to help the others out. |
| Vestigial_Thumb12-01-06, 02:14 PM | Think about doing the right thing, right now. In D&D, everyone, regardless of alignment (except the most apathetic losers, AKA Neutral fencesitters), think about doing the right thing. |
| High Octane12-01-06, 02:19 PM | In D&D, everyone, regardless of alignment (except the most apathetic losers, AKA Neutral fencesitters), think about doing the right thing. Okay, Clarification. Do the GOOD thing, right NOW. |
| Retromancer12-01-06, 02:49 PM | V from V for Vendetta. minus all the crazy if you don't want it. |
| Tempest Stormwind12-01-06, 05:20 PM | If your character is described by an alignment, you haven't thought about the character enough. It's not enough to know "he's chaotic good" when giving RP advice. Compare Robin Hood to V (V for Vendetta) to Dirty Harry. VERY different personalities, very different methods, very different goals. Yet all are chaotic good (actually, even THIS is debated -- depending on which Robin Hood tale you read and whether you're talking the graphic novel or the movie V, you'll get alignments varying from NG to CN, if not further away than that). Come up with a personality first, then look at which alignment it fits closest to -- and that last step's only there since the game needs an answer when the DM casts any alignment-related spells on you. |
| Weirgreif12-01-06, 05:23 PM | However if that was the game I think it was you guys also were quite charismatic and were also very effective. Maybe your chaotic natures kept each of you from getting in the way of the others and instead made you each look for little subtle ways to help the others out. Well yes. Nobody had a wisdom penalty, for one thing. That helps a lot. ;) AJ_Impy is wise. I approve that description. *thumbsup* |