Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Jaime_Wolf 06-13-05, 09:52 PM	Our party currently has a heavily armoured fighter, a dervish, a sorceror, a bard, and a wizard/druid (mystic theurge I believe). We're playing a 19th level campaign (we'll be going into epic levels, but ignore that for now). I started as an assassin, but things really didn't work out for that (he's not completely forcing us, but we pretty much have to follow the main plot at some time or another and it isn't exactly assassin friendly, and he won't allow people to split off and go about their own business at all, since some of the people in our group make as take forever while together). I was considering a duelist, but I don't think our group could use one too much. Now, I refuse to play cleric (and our group has the resources to heal ourselves as well as a fairly good druid). Classes allowed are core, complete adventurer, complete warrior, expanded psionics handbook, oriental adventures (I have the update from Dragon), and sandstorm (i.e. all the books we own) except psion. Any race (including Monsters of Faerun, again, updated) is allowed, as long as it has documented LA. I'd like something with a fighting flavour, perhaps some sort of fighter/arcane spellcaster combination, but not full caster. Moreover, the more flavour the better. For reference, our campaigns tend to take place in dungeons and we tend to fight single creatures a lot rather than groups of things slightly below our abilities (and they tend to have character levels, so by creatures I mean anything). Oh, and no evil.
Niveus Lynx 06-13-05, 10:06 PM	I'd like something with a fighting flavour, perhaps some sort of fighter/arcane spellcaster combination, but not full caster. Moreover, the more flavour the better. For reference, our campaigns tend to take place in dungeons and we tend to fight single creatures a lot rather than groups of things slightly below our abilities (and they tend to have character levels, so by creatures I mean anything). Oh, and no evil. Do you allow Homebrew? If so, the fighter/arcane could work out well. I wrote up a Red Mage class, which sounds exactly like what you're looking for. Link in sig.
Megrim_Lord 06-13-05, 10:11 PM	Our party currently has a heavily armoured fighter, a dervish, a sorceror, a bard, and a wizard/druid (mystic theurge I believe). We're playing a 19th level campaign (we'll be going into epic levels, but ignore that for now). I started as an assassin, but things really didn't work out for that (he's not completely forcing us, but we pretty much have to follow the main plot at some time or another and it isn't exactly assassin friendly, and he won't allow people to split off and go about their own business at all, since some of the people in our group make as take forever while together). I was considering a duelist, but I don't think our group could use one too much. Now, I refuse to play cleric (and our group has the resources to heal ourselves as well as a fairly good druid). Classes allowed are core, complete adventurer, complete warrior, expanded psionics handbook, oriental adventures (I have the update from Dragon), and sandstorm (i.e. all the books we own) except psion. Any race (including Monsters of Faerun, again, updated) is allowed, as long as it has documented LA. I'd like something with a fighting flavour, perhaps some sort of fighter/arcane spellcaster combination, but not full caster. Moreover, the more flavour the better. For reference, our campaigns tend to take place in dungeons and we tend to fight single creatures a lot rather than groups of things slightly below our abilities (and they tend to have character levels, so by creatures I mean anything). Oh, and no evil. ok, let's see here, sounds like what you want is something to the effect of an arcane trickster. I've got a build in the back pocket for such a thing, although I highly recommend you get complete arcane, based on your request of idea you would LOVE the warlock class. first suggestion: race Elves and halflings always work incredibly well in these kinds of builds, however you might want to look at Vanara if you're going to want wizard levels or Death Attack. Xephs are nice and the MM Githzerai are unvelievably effective (should you be willing to deal with LA) next suggestion: builds Rogue 3 / Wiz 5 / Arcane Trickster 10 / Assassin 2: this is a pretty good build, fairly intelligence based build with death attack thrown in for good measure. piuck spells wisely and my biggest recommendation here is utilize the ARCANE STRIKE feat heavily Ftr 2 / Wiz 7 (or Sorc 7) / Spellsword 1 / Eldritch Knight 10: Nice Gish build, though it could be a bit better with the Dragonslayer PrC from the draconomicon. final BAB +16, 18th level wizard or sorcerer casting. also utilize ARCANE STRIKE heavily, other good feats include Great Cleave and basic weapon enhancing feats like focus, imp crit, etc.
Jaime_Wolf 06-13-05, 11:22 PM	Well, let's see. For one I said that assassin didn't work out specifically because of the death attack so that's a no. On another note, are bladesingers or hexblades any good? I was thinking a swashbuckler bladesinger could be decent. I was looking at master of the unseen hand, but I've always disliked the way telekineses worked (the violent thrust part, if you throw someone into a wall it does only 1d6 damage? I want to throw someone into a wall with it HARD, and I want it to do good damage gosh darn it!). Also, anyone know if there's any way to explain an occult slayer joining the group with wizards and a sorcerer in it? (That would be a great boon to our group since no one really focuses on stopping spellcasters.)
Cherrn 06-14-05, 12:17 AM	how about a soulknife anything from the expanded psionics handbook ?
ConradBland 06-14-05, 12:34 AM	Why the hostility towards the Cleric? It is what your party needs, and you do not have to play the Cleric as a Healing Battery.
Jaime_Wolf 06-14-05, 12:44 AM	Ah, forgot to mention no soulknives (I would of been one). Unfortunately, our DM has decided that only his NPC race (I won't elaborate, it's just bad) can be psions or soulknives, so we can only be pyschic warriors or wilders as psionic classes. However, as I asked, can anyone help me with a reason why occult slayer would work in a party that includes spellcasters? (Best I can come up with is that he needs their help to kill MORE spellcasters, our DM loves psionics so I might see if occult slayer can work against psions as well.) As I said also, are hexblade or bladesinger any good?
TinManFan 06-14-05, 12:51 AM	Well, could go all nasty and do a Sharn. The erratta for the Monsters of Faerun gave them a LA of 4 with 5 HD up to a 9. Open up hex portals behind bad guys and Sneak Attack through them. And since they have caster lvls, that's just an excuse for Arcane Strike. Lotsa dice rolling. :D
HappyDragon 06-14-05, 02:31 AM	However, as I asked, can anyone help me with a reason why occult slayer would work in a party that includes spellcasters? (Best I can come up with is that he needs their help to kill MORE spellcasters, our DM loves psionics so I might see if occult slayer can work against psions as well.) Could always take the angle that it's not so much the magic itself you hate, but what you consider to be the abuse of it's abilities. If the rest of the group is as high as you've stated you could play an angle that you've heard of their deeds and feel they do not abuse their powers....perhaps if you aid them, they could aid you. Maybe make something in your background appropraite that would catch the attention of the other spellcasters in the group that could make them more inclined to team up with you. The idea of some type of greater evil is always a good way to help keep people teamed with eachother. (I'm assuming your party is more on the Neutral to Good axis....just re-read your original post and it would seem that way). Although if your DM allowed stuff from Eberron they have a whole Druidic sect that focuses on the dislike of magic, ideal for Druids or Rangers. They are called Ashbound if you're interested the Eberron boards has some good suggestions on how to use them in campaigns with magic users. As for your Class, My first suggestion would be a Monk....they are an ideal way to go against spellcasters due to their good saves. Not to mention by the near epic levels you would be at You'd be doing some pretty sweet damage. (more than 1d6 :) ) . Other suggestions that come to mind due to your groups dungeon delving are the Rogue and Scout, possibly Ranger, but moreso the Rogue or Scout. The other Class that really comes to mind though is the Warlock, either go CN or talk to your DM and see if you can work out some type of variant that would allow you to be good aligned. They seem like they might have the right mix of damage and magic you're looking for. Just my :twocents:
deusxmachina 06-14-05, 04:26 AM	Tough call. You don't like cleric for whatever reason, so that's out. A barbarian would show up both the fighter and the dervish in melee damage. I mean, it's just embarrassing to the other melee fighters when a barbarian is raging and power-attacking two-handed. It wouldn't be fair except they tend to get hit a lot. When in doubt, take a druid. You can pretty much do anything you want. Once you get large wildshape, you can melee with pretty much anybody, otherwise you can just sit back and cast spells all day. Or take ride-type skills and do mounted attacks. Druids aren't the biggest damage dealers for every scenario, but they are the most versatile and thus interesting to play.
20goingon1232 06-14-05, 10:46 PM	Play Psychic Warrior/Fighter. Take the +ac, DR type powers. Get Psy Body, Psy Crystal and Psi Containment. Have loads of fun with Spring Attack and Greater Psionic Weapon.
Arkonth 06-14-05, 11:10 PM	Occult slayer is great with justiciar and/or kensai, especially starting with 5 levels of paladin.
Dauntless 06-15-05, 12:37 AM	Warlock Warlock Warlock! Oh wait, I notice a distinct lack of Complete Arcane... doh! Actually if you want to go for sheer amusement factor, look up the "Supermount!" thread in the optimization forums. You could have a mount more powerful than the character.