Post/Author/DateTime	Post
UAMDB 03-07-07, 03:42 PM	Ok I have kind of talked to my DM about a new character concept, but we have yet to figure out the rules for it. Idea: I want to play a character with a split personality. Basicly something would happen and it would cause him to change characters. I also want them to be of different types. One is a fighter type, and the other a mage type. I am assuming a will save would be inorder to keep from changing, kind of like the sanity in UA. The problem is how do I keep from have MAD issues. Yes I realize the pun. The fighter type can get by with lower str stats, but the mage would be hosed with low mental stats. Or could my stats change depending on the type that is active? But why would my str change, mental stats I could see changing. Any suggestion, or is this just a bad idea?
Rillek_Denar 03-07-07, 04:05 PM	Any suggestion, or is this just a bad idea? Probably, yes. You're talking about gaining the advantage of having two totally different play styles available. I would draw up the character sheets totally seperate, but keeping identical ability scores. To offset the advantage of the versatility, I would give you no save to avoid changing. Just find a condition, and when it occurs, you switch automatically. To have a whole lot of fun with it use the following trigger conditions: Fighter to Mage: When damaged by a mundane attack. Mage to Fighter: When affected by a spell. You'll switch back and forth so fast, the enemy will think you're a politician.
UAMDB 03-07-07, 04:27 PM	I was going to have to sets of skills, and basicly two character sheets. I also like the NO save to keep from switching. Now what about hit points. Do my hit points change when I switch, or would I roll for each class and take the average. Otherwise I could get healed just by switching, which does not seem right at all. And thanks for the ideas.
Rillek_Denar 03-07-07, 04:48 PM	Always happy to help. Since he would be neither the epitome of physical perfection that a fighter should be, nor the limp string with the physique of a ghost that mages are, I reccomend the average approach.
Aminvelos 03-07-07, 08:37 PM	I think it's a bad idea. If I was allowed to do that I'd be a "nutcase" every game, if your getting no nigs. Look I'm a wizard, oh now all my spells are out and I'm getting angry. Now I'm a monk. ???Overpowered? A condition that switches your personality, no save. I would also give you a negative on your will save of some sort probably -4. You have a much less focused mind and cannot shrug off mental attacks as well as sane people. (obviously) And even with those suggestions I'm a little bit skeptic. Being able to have two completely different should kill the game for everyone else. Also...if I remember right theres something called the Madness Domain for a cleric. I'd have you go cleric, have you draw up two cleric sheets. -4 on will save. Of course you still only get one spell sheet. Although one might remember preparation of one set of spells and the other a different set. But this allows for different skills proficiencies and feats. And different PRC's for the two sheets. Which means if you have a special ability spell then u would get an extra spell or ability when in that personality but not until prc. Also i would treat them both the same for exp purposes.
Rogue Elendae 03-07-07, 11:52 PM	I have a player in my campaign who decided to try a similar approach (as a Bard who had an evil Sorcerer split personality), and I can say that there are some inherent difficulties in this--especially when you consider the fact that one personality is not having the experiences that the other does. For example, the character this player has (a Gnome Rogue/Bard) is a cheerful goof, as he has deliberately cut his mind off from several very horrible experiences in his past. These repressed memories created a rather diabolical Rogue/Sorcerer persona, who has versed himself in Abyssal with intent to summon an army of Demons some day to enact revenge on those who tortured him, take over the world, or any number of things. The problem is, the evil persona (Kaimartis) is usually aware at all times, even when he is not actively in control of the shared body. The good persona (Gibish) goes into a sleep state whenever Kaimartis takes over. You see the difficulty here? Especially with a character that is going to split between Fighter and a spellcasting class, you'd have to deal with completely different mental stats (the minds of the two personae are probably nothing alike, with the mage being higher Int, Wis, or Cha, both depending on which class, and how he acts), but also with how to split XP. It is unlikely that they would share experience, unless they're both constantly aware, and are the unpleasant voice in the back of the other's mind, like the Dark Prince of Prince of Persia: Two Thrones. Therefore, you'd have to discuss with the DM and decide how it is you're going to adjudicate things. As for the switch trigger, if you're going to keep going with this, I'd say that you pick one fairly particular trigger, and let the DM have a steadily increasing DC on a Will save to see if the PC switches personality when this stimulus is present. This is what I did with the player for Gibish/Kaimartis, and it has only caused one switch in the entire time we've played (which was at least a couple of months), with sleep typically causing the dark persona to fade back. Something like this could be applicable, but overall I would agree with other posters that this is really too much work (particularly for the DM, who has to figure out how to award XP to both personae, etc.) to be a good idea in play.
inthesto 03-08-07, 01:03 AM	I think it's a great idea if you can pull it off properly, but at the same time, I see no reason why it should impact mechanics at all. Even with MPD, the character should keep the same stats for either personality - just emphasize different aspects depending on which personality is active. If you want a fighter personality and a mage personality, just build a gish and have the character's playstyle switch with who's in control. Of course, be sure to let your DM know, and encourage him to force you to make random Will saves to swap personalities - the unpredictable nature of the character can make for awesome and hilarious situations.
UAMDB 03-08-07, 08:41 AM	Thank you all for some good ideas and some things to look out for. I had not even considered the xp problem. A few things about the idea. 1 Was not wanting to do this for the power trip. I thought it would be a fun RP idea. I had this idea in Vampireseveral years back, and have been wanting to work it into D&D. 2 The fighter type/ mage type is just an example of two different styles. I could also do passive healer / agressive cleric of death. Maybe the only thing would change is the domain spells/ spontanous casting. But use the same prepared spells. This is still in the planning stage. 3 I was not asking for no penalties. Thats why I came here. To see what would be some good in game draw backs if I did this idea. Such as the neg to will saves. 4 I was looking for a balanced approach to this idea. But thanks again for all the great ideas, and if you think of more keep them coming.
big_bluto 03-08-07, 09:11 AM	There's an author called Dave Duncan who wrote a series of books (A man of His Word) where magic came from words of power, and there were a crew of five characters who were 'cursed' by one of the strongest magicians in the world with this afliction. There were five different characters in their gang, and they could only exist one at a time. Each one aged only when they were alive, had no memories other than notes they left for each other, and when they 'called forth' another to life, their physical dimensions changed. I've been thinking about how to do this myself, and basically I'm more inclined to do it from that perspective. Suggested rules: 1. Each character only gets XP when they're alive, 2. They have no cross-over knowledge unless they have the time to leave a note AND the next character can read it. 3. Physical characteristics change, so if the person called forth is small and weak, the previous persons clothes fall off them. 4. Any equipment carried around stays where it is, it doesn't disappear and re-appear with the character. Imagine a half-orc fighter in full plate calling forth a halfling rogue, and then listen to the clang when the armour collapses. It means slower progression, but a lot more benefits having the different characters around.
FntsyWlkr 03-08-07, 06:49 PM	I LIKE IT! (and in my opinion, it's easy to pull off) You could either go VERY simple and play a duskblade, favored soul, or beguiler. Then just RP the shift. OR just shoot for the Chameleon PrC from Races of Destiny. They shift as a class. OR even Abjurant Champion. OR play a "high dex" charismatic fighter/sorcerer. Get Weapon finesse as a feat and that'll be your shifting from Mage to Fighter. OhOhOh! You could even taker the fighter variant from Complete Mage that allows your fight to cast spells (or mage to wear armor)
geekling 03-09-07, 06:55 AM	I'd treat it as multiclassing - sort of, the two initial classes not affected by multiclass penalties. Same stats - same HP for both 'personalities' the character gains XP as one. HP at level 1 take max for both classes and divide by two. Ie. if one is a barbarian and the other a wizard. (12+4)/2= 8HP Equipement and wealth the same for both - naturally again taking an average if you're starting at level 1 with random wealth. Seperate sheet for the rest - saves/BAB/skills/feats etc. Feats one personality has - does not count as prereqs for the other, etc. etc. they are completely seperate. - With the exeption of feats like toughness that improves your HP. Then at every level up from there flip a coin which one you level up. With the caveat that you level up the one the coin-flip landed on. That means that if at level 4 you land on barbarian - you ability score increase should be chosen with no regard of the other class. So ummm... no increasing the INT because your wizard personality needs higher INT. You are leveling up a barbarian. Only changing the HP / ability scores on the sheet for the other personality at each level up. And yes, this means that you may well end up playing a 7th level barbarian that's sometimes a 1st level wizard. (A 1st level wizard with highly unusual HP perhaps, but apart from that...) You'll probably be quite a bit behind the rest of the group on the powerlevel. But if you're doing it for roleplaying reasons, that's a small price to pay. But I'd also let each personality be fully aware of what's happening to the other. It'd just be too messy roleplay -wise for the others in the party if they have to explain everything twice to your character. Who knows, in non-threathened situations, you might even get to try and switch at will if you make a roll for it. If you ever in the course of the game manage to find a cure. You will be a barb7 / wiz 1 - combining the two sheets into one, adding them up as if you had multiclassed from the begining. In this event - yes you will sort of gain a level from that first level when you get lvl 1 of both. But you've taken such a knock on powerlevel and the whole randomly selecting which one to level up. That it hardly gives you any real advantage over a carefully crafted character that multiclass deliberatly to gain the best advantage from both classes.
Pajaul 03-09-07, 03:06 PM	But I'd also let each personality be fully aware of what's happening to the other. It'd just be too messy roleplay -wise for the others in the party if they have to explain everything twice to your character. Who knows, in non-threathened situations, you might even get to try and switch at will if you make a roll for it. I think this is the best course of action thus far, you have to remember, it is not a good thing to have your sanity split. These weaker penalties represent that, you are multi class and your progression is random. Its a good handicap. To solve this problem of being self aware. Simply have your character's delusion replace him. Its called constructive memory. 'You' were there the entire time yes, but which you depends on who you are. If you were the mage persona, then you remembered casting spells and staying out of combat. If you were the fighting persona, you remember using your sword and bashing the monster. DESPITE what actually happened. For instance, if the others in the party remember you as being a mage that last fight but you are a fighter when they ask you about it. You deny being a mage and tell them how you smacked the monster with your sword. Become angered if they keep pressing the point. This way both personalities exist but are not aware of each other, but it allows you to always know what it going on. You simply 'remember' it differently. Or you could do the awareness thing with one character be the norm and the other be the spilt. From your example the bard would be the norm and the sorc the split. so the bard would continually warn people from making him angry or being cruel to him because it will bring out... 'him'. When they hurt you, go to sorc mode. The 'him' that is vengeful, powerful, and horrible to those horrible to him, yet you'd still be aware of all that heppened to 'you'. Good luck!
GSonic7 03-09-07, 04:43 PM	Or you could take that idea with a barbarian instead of the sorcerer. "You're not going to like me when I'm angry.." Then turn green.
Orchomenos 03-09-07, 04:46 PM	What about a Wizard Were-Bear?