Post/Author/DateTime	Post
psyhcopig0 03-01-07, 04:44 PM	ok, i have the rules now from my DM...a recent character died, he is allowing me to start a new one...he has set some pretty bold restrictions: No "exotic" classes, defined by him include: Bards, Monks, Druids[i think] and sorcerers, and only choose from the base PHB classes I can go rogue, just not as my starting class, because our usual rogue gets pissy and causes problems for all No cleric, mainly because there is already one [wdf? -.- ...] so basically my only classes i can choose to start this new character from is either : Wizard,barbarian, fighter, or ranger [because we already have a paladin, who is prolly counted as exotic now, and is leaving, i am prolly not allowed to go into it either...] i already run a barbarian, so im not too keen on the idea of another "tank" all controled by me i like rogues, rather their ability to sneak attack and pickpocket, but other than that i wish not to be a full fledged rogue as of now the best choice for my new character, since i do not want another fighter type, would be a Ranged fighter or Ranger, or a combo of both, right? well i am not a fan of archers, i do adore spellcasters, but i cannot stand archers too well, what i am truely wanting to look forhelp on is, picking a prestige class, i WILL NOT be a straight ranger, or ranger/fighter, or ranged fighter, id like something more special to be tagged on...from what ive said the arcane archer sounds like a good choice right? well my only way to get spells would to be by a wizards levels, which...im not too keen on the idea of need a book to prepare my spells i know i could go two weapon fighting ranger, but are they really that great? and what could the 2WF ranger style lead to as in good prestige class? i need my decision by tommarow [it is 4pm EST now, i need an answer by 8am tommarow EST, going to play friday hopefully, so i will make my character then]
UAMDB 03-01-07, 04:51 PM	You have just ruled out almost every class i can think of off the top of my head. Why not tell us what you want your character to do in the long term, instead of telling us what you dont want to play?
Cantankerous 03-01-07, 05:13 PM	If you're talking 2wpn Ranger, I've always had a weakness for two classes for them: the Bloodhound (overall effectiveness as a pure combat maevan may not be what you want, but it's a great Roguish feeling warrior build) and of course there is always the Dervish... one level of Rogue added to those five levels of Ranger and your good to go. A pair of scimitars with their 18-20 crit range basis, and not to dismiss Dervish Dance and Movement Mastery, all at first level... quite a nasty non-moose warrior class indeed. Isshia
psyhcopig0 03-01-07, 05:19 PM	because, honestly, i am not in favor of actually making this guy, yes i do want him...but i cannot truely be anything i want... anyway...i was really hoping for more of just suggestions along these guidlines...i know one of two things: i either going to be some sort of ranger, i think, whether i spawn off into 2WF, or archery, will be my final deciding fate... if i go 2WF i would like to...in a way follow the basis of a rogue, without being depended on for my fullest of skills, sort of a rogue mimic with a good avarage on sneak attack, and a companion, and a few spells if i go archery i would like to be bluntly archery, as in take up all the multishot, manyshots, and beefing up ranged attack as much as possible, in a way neglecting every other aspects of himself what i am really looking for is just suggestions, ideas, or just what others have to say about one style or the other, so i can sway my mind to one or the other this new char i am going to start will start at level 3, i also need to decide whether to multiclass, or not, and when should i... as of now my character is planned on being either a human/elf/halfling ranger level 1 [need to make final decisions on the other 2 levels] also, the way our group plays[i hate this but..] we do it more as a video game, RP basis isnt truely set, i mean sure we say things the character might say, but thats pretty much the extent of our RP, other than taking alignment in mind when making decisions...so im trying to max my skills rather than make a background to build him upon, i hate playing in this concept, but in a way we are just buildin him from scratch [I]any suggestions are welcome...[it would also help me if you where to cite things, just a bookname would be fine]
UAMDB 03-01-07, 05:58 PM	Ok if you want to go archer, then I would look into Order of Bow, and/or arcane archer. Order of the bow allows you to fire off your box in melee with out AoO. The Arcane archer allows you to basicly get a magic weapon for free. If you start as either Fighte or Ranger, and hit Order of Bow as soon as possible then go into Arcane Archer. The only down side to Arcane Archer is the one level of Wizard, which messes with you Hp and BAB. If you want to take both Prc then fighter might be the best way, since you need several feats. I played this concept in 3.0 and after the end my DM never allowed those two combos ever again. 3.5 fixed some of the brokeness. I am not sure how long it will take you to get OB going ranger but you should be able to take level as soon as 5th if you go straight fighter, it also gives you several feats to spend on archery feats.
psyhcopig0 03-01-07, 08:01 PM	ok working on an outline for the char now... but, can someone explain how BAB works for multiclassing? im trying to figure when i should take a level as a rogue, , and how it will effect my BAB since if i get +5 BAB at level 5, i can get dervish at 6ths, and max out what she can do by level 16, heh, ill think about what else i should go for later, but for now i need help determining how to do BAB also thanks for the ranger info, but i am going to do a 2WF ranger human
draco1119 03-02-07, 01:18 AM	but, can someone explain how BAB works for multiclassing? im trying to figure when i should take a level as a rogue, , and how it will effect my BAB since if i get +5 BAB at level 5, i can get dervish at 6ths, and max out what she can do by level 16, heh, ill think about what else i should go for later, but for now i need help determining how to do BAB BAB is equal to the BAB for your class level for all classes. For example, a Ranger5/Rogue1 has a BAB of +5 (+5 Ranger/+0 Rogue). Here's what's required for a Dervish: BAB: +5 Skills: Perform (Dance) 3, Tumble 3 Feats: Combat Expertise, Dodge, Mobility, Weapon Focus (any slashing) Now, the easiest way to qualify for the Feats is Human Fighter. The easiest way to qualify for the skills is Rogue. The absolute earliest you could do Dervish is level 6, due to the BAB, and the only way to qualify for the Feats is to go straight Fighter as a Human. I would recommend something like Fighter 4/Rogue 3 if you don't play a Human. Another option to look at would be the Tempest THEN the Dervish, perhaps.
Cantankerous 03-02-07, 09:16 AM	Since you want to go Ranger though, stick with it if you go Dervish. Human gets you another 1st level feat, another for being 1st level, suggestion being Weapon Focus Scimitar, which later when you hit your first level of Dervish you'll be able to double up on, and Dodge, which you'll need forMobility anyway. The strength of Ranger here is the free feats that will augment your 2wpn Fighter build, while still keeping a somewhat more Roguish feel than the Fighter provides as a basis. Too, you'll end up with LOTS of skill points extra this way (a human Ranger with the intel needed to qualify for your upcoming Combat Expertise has 8 skill ranks per level, minimum, so that's 32 skill ranks for you at first level with a great skill list) also a good thing for a highly mobile, lightly armored, probably very stealthy slasher. Keep in mind that you've got to have a minimum 13 Intel to qualify for Combat Expertise and grab it at 3rd. This, right then at third level, together with the Dodge will make for a nice AC bonus when fighting defensively without taking quite as much of a soaking to your attack roll to get it. You'll take a -3 to Att to effectively get a +4 to your AC when using it. A nice trade off against low AC high attack opponents. You'll leave Mobility until 6th level when you take your level of Rogue and then begin to become the slasher and a half that the Dervish will complete for you. You'll also leave Tumble and Perform (do yourself a favor and get four ranks of Perform, not the minimum three, it'll pay off next level when you get your first level of Dervish) for this point, since you'll have at least 10 ranks available (minimum 13 Int and the human fast learning penchant) to use so it won't hurt you. By this point, 6th level, you'll have all the advantages of a 5th level Ranger and the Rogue level and will be set to really take off next level. Dervish is a primary combat PrC so you'll never miss that one less +1 ATT you lost for the first level as a Rogue and the 1d6 of sneak attack, with likelyhood of still being stealthy as a Dervish thrown in makes up for it in spades. Even on a simple 25 pt build this guy can be a great do it all maevan even before the Dervish levels. Trap Finding if you want to spend a few extra points to make it worth something is a nice benee, two favored enemies, or doubling up on one if you have a constant buggaboo race in the campaign, an Animal Companion, Tracking and Endurance and the Two Weapon Style free whether you qualify for it or not (and if you decide to do it a 6th level of Ranger mixed in gives a +1 to ATT and all three saves, Improved Two Weapon Fighting, whether you qualify for it or not, and even a spell per day, or an extra one if you had a 12+ Wisdom to start with) and Animal Empathy, a highly under rated little perk if you have a good DM. At 7th or 8th level the Ranger/Rogue/Dervish is a deadly combination that will still deliever alot of that Roguish feel you said you wanted and loads of spinning, whirling, mobile fun. When you finally get there, the "thousand cuts" makes for instant death to MASSIVE numbers of mid to low HP opponents. Ten attacks in a round, especially if you're weilding twin scimitars that are either Keen or if you have picked up the Improved Critical feat, all those WITHOUT the also FREE Great Cleave effect you have when doing the "thousand cuts" is a sight to behold. Isshia
Drag0nUL 03-02-07, 09:40 AM	You say you are limited in base class choices, but are you allowed to pick exotic prestige classes( dervish is pretty exotic if you ask me but very good if you can use it)? However I want to suggest another possibility since the dervish path has already been discussed. You could play something like rogue 5/ranger 3/shadowdancer 10/whatever you like 2. You will get great battlefield mobility via shadow jump, decent damage (multiple attacks per round, each with added 3d6 sneak attack) and a lot of skill points.