Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Omnirahk, half-Rahkshi 02-04-06, 02:54 PM	OK. For the first time ever, I am serious about starting a D&D campaign. There's finally a local playable group. Of 3 people. None of us have ever played before. Not even the DM. I know, I know, BIG problem. But it looks like we'll just have to deal. So what should I do for a PC? There's already a sorcerer and a fighter (aiming for Dragonstalker or Arcane Archer PrC). So we are lacking a healer, a sneaker, and, to a slighter extent, a melee basher. What class should I aim for? Or do we have to allow NPC party members to even hope for survival? As it is, I'm intrigued by ranger, but I'm not sure if I can play one and not turn him into Drizzt (I refuse to be a fanboy). And when we gain confidence, I'll likely be branching into a few dashes of Incarnum. Any advice could help. (P.S. we're thinking starting at lv 6. I don't know if this is good or bad). EDIT: based on recommendations, I'm a Druid, and we're starting First Level.
Templetroll 02-04-06, 03:35 PM	For the inexperienced start at first level. Learn to survive as the DM learns to challange without TPKs. A TPK should only occur if the party willfully takes on too much or does it badly. You might want to consider just the core books for the first campaign, again to give yourselves focus as you learn the game. Aragorn was a ranger, also. A ranger is any warrior experienced at wilderness survival. choose the environment and you get some focus on your style of ranger.
Red Nightmare 02-04-06, 03:47 PM	About your class choice you have 5 choices from the core books. 1. Cleric: he can fight in melee's and is the best healer. you won't have a sneaker (though you sorcerer could try his hand at it being unarmored) but in fights you shouldn't have a problem. 2. Bard: he's a nice way in between (like always) he's a great scout and can do some damage and learn to heal later on. however thats his downside. you won't have a healer during the start. 3. Ranger: much like the bard he's in between. he get healing on lvl 4 and can easly sneak. is damage is oke and you even get to track. however he has the same downside as the bard. mote that you also get a companion to make your group go to 4 (or actually 3 1/2) 4. Paladin: Its a heavy hitter and has some great healing in both lay on hands and its cure spells. is cant sneak but will handel its own great in a fight. 5. Druid: it's got healing, can fight and must wear natural armor so it can sneak easy. and you get a companion again. If it was my choice i would go for either the paladin, the cleric or the druid and take some skills in Listen and Spot to make sure we wouldn't be caught unaware.
Omnirahk, half-Rahkshi 02-04-06, 05:41 PM	This helps a lot. I think I'll go with druid. It keeps with the nature theme the ranger has, but fills more roles (or at least better). And when I gain the skill to even consider asking to bring Incarnum in, I'll have a nice transition into Totemist. Check: Class: Druid Skills: Listen and Spot Race: human (?) Concerns: AC: Druids cannot wear metal. So I'm stuck with hides. Good for sneaking, but I'll be an easy kill until I can afford Dragonhide armors. Feats: as we are without a cleric, I'll need to maximize my healing potential, since I cannot spontaniously cast heal. Animal companion: Which animal will help the most? Weapons: As I'll be stocking up on heal spells, I'll have less for combat. Likely I'll be more melee than blaster. What weapon should I use? Or should I aim to buff my Wildshaping? EDIT: Looking through, I discovered something that may help for battle. Feat: Dragon Wildshape or the item Ring of Dragonshape or Armor of Dragonshape. However, none seem really practical. Dragon Wildshape is a feat requiring 19 Wisdom and Knowledge (nature) 15. The only way to get that quickly is to start off as an old character (read: not made for combat). The other two are items costing 23,000 gp. In other words, I'd probably have to slay a dragon first.
jennibert 02-04-06, 07:09 PM	If you're allowing splatbooks, there's a feat in Complete Divine that allows you to spontaneous cast cure spells without being a good cleric. My PC in my last campaign was a neutral cleric who for roleplay reasons spontaneous cast inflict spells, but I took that when we started needing more versatility than me spending all of my memorized spells on cure spells. It doesn't allow all of your spells to be spontaneous cast, just up to your wisdom mod, I think.
tak3thatback 02-05-06, 01:15 AM	Exception to Druid's armor rule: you can cast ironwood or have it casted for you onto your armor to make your armor act like steel. This requires that your armor is made with regular wood. Your shield still has to be wood as well.
Nom 02-05-06, 06:41 AM	This helps a lot. I think I'll go with druid. It keeps with the nature theme the ranger has, but fills more roles (or at least better). And when I gain the skill to even consider asking to bring Incarnum in, I'll have a nice transition into Totemist. Check: Class: Druid Skills: Listen and Spot Race: human (?)Druids get 4 skill points per level, +1 if you're human, + more if your Int is 12+. You'll probably want Concentration (helps cast spells under stress, eg in melee). Spellcraft is very useful (identify magics), but you could let the sorc handle it. Survival (navigate and find food in wild) and Knowledge (nature) (identify creatures) are both very useful in moderation, as are Handle Animal (train animals, including companion), Ride (obvious) and a little Heal (backup mundane healing). I'd try to max out Concentration, Listen and Spot. Get one rank in each of the others (Handle Animal, Survival, Knowledge (nature), Ride, Spellcraft, Heal), then work at getting them to 5 ranks each (in order given), and then figure which ones you want to push further. AC: Druids cannot wear metal. So I'm stuck with hides. Good for sneaking, but I'll be an easy kill until I can afford Dragonhide armors.Armour is a problem for druids. As a rule of thumb, if you're not in a combat wildshape then you probably shouldn't be in melee. I'd recommend leather over hide: +1 AC isn't worth the massive speed and armour check penalties. Wield a longspear and fight at reach; this also makes it easy to get a hand free for spellcasting. Finally, convince the sorcerer to mage armour you: lasts an hour, and grants +4 (vs +2 for leather) armour. Feats: as we are without a cleric, I'll need to maximize my healing potential, since I cannot spontaniously cast heal.Druids aren't overly effective as healers. The occasional cure light wounds can be helpful, but most of the time you're better to have all PCs carry potions and save your spells for better uses. This is true even with a true cleric. As soon as the party can afford it, spend 750 gp on a wand of cure light wounds - worth every coin. I'm a big fan of Spell Focus (Conjuration), Augment Summoning. +4 Str and Dex to all your summons is a big boost, particularly once you reach level 3 or 4 and they start to last for more than a blink of an eye. Animal companion: Which animal will help the most?Purely as a combat aid, the wolf or medium viper are most potent. The birds can be useful as scouts and occasionally help in combat. The heavy horse isn't overly useful in combat, but it is a horse. Though it will just get in the way indoors. If tossing up between the wolf and viper: the wolf moves faster, but the snake can climb. Also, you can't carry a wolf around town hidden in a sack or trunk. Weapons: As I'll be stocking up on heal spells, I'll have less for combat. Likely I'll be more melee than blaster. What weapon should I use? Or should I aim to buff my Wildshaping?Think of yourself as a buffer, not a blaster, though the druid can certainly do both. I'm a big fan of the longspear, since you can influence the battle without getting threatened yourself. Alternatives: Elves make excellent druids. +2 Dex is good, -2 Con is tolerable, and they start with a bunch of useful weapon proficiences (read "longbow"). Cost is one feat and 1 skill point per level. For humans and half-elves, consider taking a level of ranger. It hurts your caster level slightly, but you get a +1 BAB, Track, extra skill points (take it at 1st level), and much better weapon choices. The other interesting dip is two levels of monk - gain Wis to AC, good saves, and evasion - but this will hurt your caster level. One last piece of advice: avoid expansion rules while you're starting. There's not necessarily anything wrong with them, but the game already has way too many options to easily get a handle on without doubling or trebling them. Also, not all the expansion material is well balanced (nor core for that matter, but its generally better) and it helps to know how the game is played before you try to judge how a given optional rule will affect your game.
Omnirahk, half-Rahkshi 02-05-06, 07:31 AM	Thanks for all the help so far. I think I'll go with wolf animal companion, and I'll take that feat from complete divine. Got it. Keep out the expansion stuff. No Incarnum until I'm no longer a newbie (though I was planning on waiting quite a while anyway). And thanks for the advice on which skills to focus on.
Nom 02-05-06, 08:58 AM	and I'll take that feat from complete divine.Your call, but it's really a rather weak feat. Even for a cleric, trading a spell for SL * d8 + CL healing might be nice if your pal is dying, but most of the time the sacrificed spell would have been more useful. For a druid it is worse, because any spell above cure light wounds lags a spell level, and the cure spells are weak-ish anyway. A better tactic - until you get a wand - is to memorise one or two CLW spells with the intent of either using them in emergencies or sacrificing them for summoning spells. Just use the cleric's trick, but in reverse.
Louist 02-05-06, 11:30 AM	1) AC: Druids cannot wear metal. So I'm stuck with hides. Good for sneaking, but I'll be an easy kill until I can afford Dragonhide armors. Feats: as we are without a cleric, I'll need to maximize my healing potential, since I cannot spontaniously cast heal. 2) Animal companion: Which animal will help the most? 3) EDIT: Looking through, I discovered something that may help for battle. Feat: Dragon Wildshape or the item Ring of Dragonshape or Armor of Dragonshape. However, none seem really practical. Dragon Wildshape is a feat requiring 19 Wisdom and Knowledge (nature) 15. The only way to get that quickly is to start off as an old character (read: not made for combat). The other two are items costing 23,000 gp. In other words, I'd probably have to slay a dragon first. 1) When you have the cash you can buy Ironwood armour. If you wanted you could be walking around in platemail. 2) Wolves are always fun, and the trip they get is usefull. 3) Knowledge: Nature of 15 ranks means you have to be level 11 before getting the feat. I'd hold back from planning that far ahead. Look for feats that will help you now ;) I'd also stick to the core books PHB DMG and MM1 untill you've played through a bit.