character wealth [Archive] - Wizards Community

character wealth [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
bsatink
05-29-04, 11:51 AM Is there a guideline of how many gold each character should spend on stuff like houses and other gear you don't realy need in combat?

my character is level 12 and still lives in a large house (with the rest of the party). We could buy mansion, but then we don't have much gold to spend on cool equipement.

In DM there is a guideline for character wealth.
But how much of that amount is used for 'usefull' gear?
Having a keep or castle is pretty cool but when fighting in a dungeon it doesn't help us.

Please let me know what you think about this!
Moonstonedragon
05-29-04, 03:14 PM Thats is the net sum of all your money, it can be useful or useless by as much as you want it to be. Mostly its all usefully, about 90% of players dont waste time on houses and such till much later level since they are always traveling
bsatink
06-02-04, 04:40 AM But there is not some guideline in the DM or PHB?
Crisisman
06-02-04, 04:52 AM Nope, but as a DM I would probably say that anything you can't take with you on adventure probably wouldn't count in your "wealth" as the DMG regards it.
Thermanshs
06-02-04, 05:07 AM Originally posted by Crisisman
Nope, but as a DM I would probably say that anything you can't take with you on adventure probably wouldn't count in your "wealth" as the DMG regards it.

I think this is a terrible judgement.What if my rogue buys an entire fleet and starts a commerce with distant lands?
what if I my cleric makes his own heretic church and influences a whole country's religion?
what if my fighter makes his own training grounds that requires fees for the training?
what if my druid builds an alchemy shop along all expensive materials used for (magic)item creation as well?

Conclusion:there are many ways to spend your money and stay on top besides adventuring tools.
Bulabase
06-04-04, 12:51 AM Originally posted by Thermanshs
I think this is a terrible judgement.What if my rogue buys an entire fleet and starts a commerce with distant lands?
what if I my cleric makes his own heretic church and influences a whole country's religion?
what if my fighter makes his own training grounds that requires fees for the training?
what if my druid builds an alchemy shop along all expensive materials used for (magic)item creation as well?

All of these are great ideas for a game and a good DM will reward the player by making them relevent in the game. From the perspective of the books, however, it is to complicated to make a hard and fast rule. A DM has to be creative in finding ways to reward such choices on the part of the PCs.

Players often aviod these sorts of things because DMs often use them as adventure material. For example, your rogue's fleet is sunk by Kraken and the like.

A good example of this in action is in a campaign in which I play, a high level bard founded a school for adventurers. She can now reference the library and the faculty to help her find lost lore and hints to solve problems. The DM hasn't burned it down yet, so it has worked out pretty well.
Crisisman
06-04-04, 01:27 AM Originally posted by Thermanshs
I think this is a terrible judgement.What if my rogue buys an entire fleet and starts a commerce with distant lands?
what if I my cleric makes his own heretic church and influences a whole country's religion?
what if my fighter makes his own training grounds that requires fees for the training?
what if my druid builds an alchemy shop along all expensive materials used for (magic)item creation as well?

Conclusion:there are many ways to spend your money and stay on top besides adventuring tools.

Bulabase made some good points.

First, to make any of the above mentioned endeavors succeed requires considerable time and money.

I would rule the money must come from your personal gold, which is part of your wealth, which means you will have less available for things that help you survive the next encounter. Any profits the Rogue makes(which is completely under DM control) will count against his wealth. You can treat the other situations similarly.

The time means you aren't adventuring. Does the rest of the group sit around while the Rogue is sailing away on his fleet? If they go with, then that becomes the adventure. The Rogue better have a good leaderstip score or there's going to be mutiny...or worse.

I don't see any reason a DM can't handle any of those situations. If you don't want that kind of thing in your campaign, then just don't allow it.

The campaign I am currently running includes a player who is attempting to settle the stonelands. The party made the choice to support that endeavor and so the campaign will intertwine with that goal. There is no way I am going to charge against their wealth when they finally save enough to build a tower or keep. The party has created an SRF(Stonelands Reclamation Fund), which is separate from any personal wealth. This will fund those ventures and pay for road building, supplies, etc. They have a money making venture that will give them a steady source of income for that fund. It is entirely separate from their personal wealth. As DM, I will make sure they have sufficient opportunity to pursue these goals, but I will also keep a close watch on just how successful it becomes so that they will always have to work at it. Everyone has fun, players are still balanced in game terms versus what they will encounter while adventuring, no one player is going to get out of balance with the others. I see no problem, and neither do they.
Thermanshs
06-04-04, 09:46 AM Originally posted by Crisisman
Bulabase made some good points.

First, to make any of the above mentioned endeavors succeed requires considerable time and money.

I would rule the money must come from your personal gold, which is part of your wealth, which means you will have less available for things that help you survive the next encounter.

I would rule the money must come from your personal gold, which is part of your wealth, which means you will have less available for things that help you survive the next encounter. Any profits the Rogue makes(which is completely under DM control) will count against his wealth. You can treat the other situations similarly.

The time means you aren't adventuring. Does the rest of the group sit around while the Rogue is sailing away on his fleet? If they go with, then that becomes the adventure. The Rogue better have a good leaderstip score or there's going to be mutiny...or worse.

I don't see any reason a DM can't handle any of those situations. If you don't want that kind of thing in your campaign, then just don't allow it.

All your points are correct,which seems you got the idea of how a player can get powerful in a completely different gaming style,thus getting less wealth from adventuring is a obvious here.

Although I think that the profits aren't totally under the DM's control,characters have brains of their own you know and would know beforehand if the sea is kraken infested,the trade routes are constantly attacked by goblin bands etc.Also why put a maximum in a character's wealth amount?Does anyone restrict bill gates from expamding his company?Is there anyone to tell him:Hey dude!You've reached the maximum wealth for your level!
So noone sets minimun or maximum limits here...this wealth by level table is only a GUIDE to have an idea whether you're in the standards or not...also this assumes that players play standard adventuring with random encounter-based treasure.
Time needed?Of course!We're stepping out of standard adbenture style!Players might have much more fun in sych a game,Bulabase seeming to be one of those.

Players often aviod these sorts of things because DMs often use them as adventure material. For example, your rogue's fleet is sunk by Kraken and the like.
First off...if the DM meta-games then there's no reason to keep playing with him!What's the master's goals?Ruin every creative action the players attempt?Put a big STOP when the characters' power get out of control?
Look...the master HAS to be objective...he just thinks logically the outcome of a player's actions and he may even warn him if what he thinks is way out of reality!
Moreover,NO character is forced to act as the adventure says,the mayor has assigned you a mission to clear the haunted mansion....
So what? Who cares? All my rogue cares for is enlarging his pockets...;)
Edward
06-04-04, 12:43 PM I once made the mistake of purchasing 2 sets of clothes suitable for nobles and the associated jewellery for a level 6 character. I did this instead of going to a mage to have my weapon enchanted. And it covered most of my additional wealth from 5-6. it took me 3 levels to get back up to pace in melee combat during witch time I had several occasions had good cause to where them but was treated no differently from my compatriots wearing adventuring gear (other than the lass in black full plate with a sword bigger than she is who was regarded appropriately).

I will never spend a sygnifignt portion of my wealth on such things again. At least not with any GM I have played with to date.

Edward
Bulabase
06-04-04, 01:06 PM I ran an adventure with two different groups in which there was a club for high powered types like adventurers. It was a very exclusive place, modeled after those clubs you see on lifestyles of the rich and famous. Both times, a party member entered the club wearing a hat of disguise instead of real nice clothing and jewelry and was snubbed by the patrons and the staff. No gather information for you. The party member who was successful in both cases was the one who kept jewelry instead of selling it and purchased fine clothing. The first time it was a flamboyant Gnomish aleinist (starting to loose it) and the second a glamerous elven bard. It was a lot of fun for me to RP these encounters since I didn't explicitly say why the illusion based character was being snubbed.
bsatink
06-07-04, 04:09 PM I have heared many cool things, but still have no idea how much adventure gear a player should have when you want the game to be as balanced as possible !

We have a party with 4 players, 2 are 13th level, 1 is 12th and 1 is 11th level. DM thinks we should life in mansion or keep.
We can buy that, but then we have to spend about 25% of our wealth. I think it's a bit too much. Then we don't have enough money to buy life saving equipment.

so how much should be spend on adventuring gear, 90% or less?
Twisted Puppy
06-07-04, 04:36 PM bsatink: If the DM is REQUIRING you to live in a certain place, then he needs to provide it rather than force you to spend your starting funds on it. Certainly requiring you to spend 25% of your wealth on a home seems, to me, uncalled for. The wealth is yours to spend, not the DMs. While he might be justified in restricting some items, or items above, say, 25% of your total wealth, FORCING you to buy something is railroading in the extreme, IMHO. He may strongly suggest you purchase lodging, etc, but he needs to explain himself before making it a requirement.

That said, having some "hooks" on which the DM can attach an adventure thread to can be loads of fun. No decent DM is going to destroy the rogue's fleet of ships for fun, but .. the rogue has been such a nuisance to the BBEG, well, one way to hurt the rogue is to take away his fleet. BBEG bribes/coerces/blackmails the Kraken to destroy the ships, enslaving the crews, including the rogue's twin sister, who manages the fleet when he's away.. After a grueling and time-consuming search for the Kraken's lair, the adventurers kill the beast, and among his lair find more than enough treasure to rebuild the rogue's fleet. That's not metagaming by the DM, that's adding to the game by making use of player background.
Thermanshs
06-07-04, 04:39 PM Excelent response Twisted Puppy...totally agreed for every point you made especially:

The wealth is yours to spend, not the DMs. While he might be justified in restricting some items, or items above, say, 25% of your total wealth, FORCING you to buy something is railroading in the extreme, IMHO. He may strongly suggest you purchase lodging, etc, but he needs to explain himself before making it a requirement.
Twisted Puppy
06-07-04, 04:43 PM double post:embarrass
Crisisman
06-07-04, 04:56 PM Just one thing to add.

If your DM is a good one, and he's suggesting you invest in such a thing, then he probably has a reason. If the DM wants you to spend the gold then he'll probably give you plenty of opportunity to get more elsewhere.

I agree that requiring such a major investment is bad.
bsatink
06-07-04, 05:04 PM Thanks alot!

He is not realy forcing us, but he says that we are (compered to commoners) extreme rich and that it's not logical for us to life all together in 1 large house. For that I agree. We have enough wealt so we can afford a little more. But in his world there is nothing between a large house and mansion.

I think we will travel alot, so never buy a house or mansion.
And when we are rich enough we can settle somewhere.

How much wealth do you spend on non combat gear?
My character has many expensive outfits like a royals outfit, many shoes etc. (it's a female halfling sorceress)
Thermanshs
06-07-04, 05:13 PM Originally posted by bsatink
I think we will travel alot, so never buy a house or mansion.
Fortunately Mordenkainen has come here to put an end to this.Check the (Mordenkainen's Magnificent Mansion) spell in the player's handbook
How much wealth do you spend on non combat gear?
If I ever play as a player then I assure you that 50% of my treasure would be spent on such stuff...but that's just me...
Edward
06-08-04, 03:32 AM No matter how rich you are you wouldn’t by loggings more opulent than what you wanted.

Very few of my characters would want anything more than a large house (possibly to myself/family) or a wizard tower. Anything greater is a commitment to those beyond yourself. Also buying a house is a form of settling down, something to do at the end (or what you think will be the end) of your adventuring career.

Edward
lantzer
06-08-04, 10:29 AM For me it depends greatly on the particular character.

Some would bury the cash in a hole for future retirement.
Some would use it to buy the best combat gear available.
Some would invest it in businesses as a silent partner.
Some would buy clothes and jewelry and other comforts.
Some would blow it all on ale, young ladies, and gambling.
Some would give it away to help others.
One would use it to get hold of a large herd of mares.

I've never cared for the idea, "I'm X level, so I should have Y amount of wealth! Gimme!" Those tables in the DMG are suggestions to the GM for what might be useful in balancing encounters. Unfortunately, they foster the idea among some people that "If I don't have my +Y weapon by X level, you are a lousy GM!"

If you have more or less wealth, and your character is alive, and your character still feels challenged, then whatever amount your GM has made available is working for his campaign. It could be that the GM knows very well that he's underfunding his PCs, and part of the flavor of his world is that heros are mighty from inner strength, big hearts, great skill, and sheer stubborness, not cool toys.

A good GM has encounters that run the gamut from way too easy to nightmarishly deadly. This makes the PCs feel as if the world _doesn't_ revolve around them, which is cool. It also gives them a good feeling later when they can defeat a foe that they ran from screaming several levels ago.
Twisted Puppy
06-08-04, 10:58 AM Originally posted by Crisisman
Just one thing to add.

If your DM is a good one, and he's suggesting you invest in such a thing, then he probably has a reason. If the DM wants you to spend the gold then he'll probably give you plenty of opportunity to get more elsewhere.

I agree that requiring such a major investment is bad.

And if the DM is a good one, he will not take offense if you ask him why he is suggesting you undergo the expense. His answer may be cryptic, or not very revealing - but it should be along the lines of, "it will make the campaign more fun, trust me." Personally, if I suggested a player make a certain expenditure (say for a keep) and the adventure did not work out as planned, or if it turned out that having him buy the home at all was a mistake, I'd admit the mistake, let him sell the keep for what he put into it, and go from there.
Bear in mind that the only way the DM is going to improve is by trying new ideas and concepts. And just as some character concepts that players come up with will not work out, so some of the DM's new ideas will not work out either. That happens, shrug it off, and drive on.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
bsatink 05-29-04, 11:51 AM	Is there a guideline of how many gold each character should spend on stuff like houses and other gear you don't realy need in combat? my character is level 12 and still lives in a large house (with the rest of the party). We could buy mansion, but then we don't have much gold to spend on cool equipement. In DM there is a guideline for character wealth. But how much of that amount is used for 'usefull' gear? Having a keep or castle is pretty cool but when fighting in a dungeon it doesn't help us. Please let me know what you think about this!
Moonstonedragon 05-29-04, 03:14 PM	Thats is the net sum of all your money, it can be useful or useless by as much as you want it to be. Mostly its all usefully, about 90% of players dont waste time on houses and such till much later level since they are always traveling
bsatink 06-02-04, 04:40 AM	But there is not some guideline in the DM or PHB?
Crisisman 06-02-04, 04:52 AM	Nope, but as a DM I would probably say that anything you can't take with you on adventure probably wouldn't count in your "wealth" as the DMG regards it.
Thermanshs 06-02-04, 05:07 AM	Originally posted by Crisisman Nope, but as a DM I would probably say that anything you can't take with you on adventure probably wouldn't count in your "wealth" as the DMG regards it. I think this is a terrible judgement.What if my rogue buys an entire fleet and starts a commerce with distant lands? what if I my cleric makes his own heretic church and influences a whole country's religion? what if my fighter makes his own training grounds that requires fees for the training? what if my druid builds an alchemy shop along all expensive materials used for (magic)item creation as well? Conclusion:there are many ways to spend your money and stay on top besides adventuring tools.
Bulabase 06-04-04, 12:51 AM	Originally posted by Thermanshs I think this is a terrible judgement.What if my rogue buys an entire fleet and starts a commerce with distant lands? what if I my cleric makes his own heretic church and influences a whole country's religion? what if my fighter makes his own training grounds that requires fees for the training? what if my druid builds an alchemy shop along all expensive materials used for (magic)item creation as well? All of these are great ideas for a game and a good DM will reward the player by making them relevent in the game. From the perspective of the books, however, it is to complicated to make a hard and fast rule. A DM has to be creative in finding ways to reward such choices on the part of the PCs. Players often aviod these sorts of things because DMs often use them as adventure material. For example, your rogue's fleet is sunk by Kraken and the like. A good example of this in action is in a campaign in which I play, a high level bard founded a school for adventurers. She can now reference the library and the faculty to help her find lost lore and hints to solve problems. The DM hasn't burned it down yet, so it has worked out pretty well.
Crisisman 06-04-04, 01:27 AM	Originally posted by Thermanshs I think this is a terrible judgement.What if my rogue buys an entire fleet and starts a commerce with distant lands? what if I my cleric makes his own heretic church and influences a whole country's religion? what if my fighter makes his own training grounds that requires fees for the training? what if my druid builds an alchemy shop along all expensive materials used for (magic)item creation as well? Conclusion:there are many ways to spend your money and stay on top besides adventuring tools. Bulabase made some good points. First, to make any of the above mentioned endeavors succeed requires considerable time and money. I would rule the money must come from your personal gold, which is part of your wealth, which means you will have less available for things that help you survive the next encounter. Any profits the Rogue makes(which is completely under DM control) will count against his wealth. You can treat the other situations similarly. The time means you aren't adventuring. Does the rest of the group sit around while the Rogue is sailing away on his fleet? If they go with, then that becomes the adventure. The Rogue better have a good leaderstip score or there's going to be mutiny...or worse. I don't see any reason a DM can't handle any of those situations. If you don't want that kind of thing in your campaign, then just don't allow it. The campaign I am currently running includes a player who is attempting to settle the stonelands. The party made the choice to support that endeavor and so the campaign will intertwine with that goal. There is no way I am going to charge against their wealth when they finally save enough to build a tower or keep. The party has created an SRF(Stonelands Reclamation Fund), which is separate from any personal wealth. This will fund those ventures and pay for road building, supplies, etc. They have a money making venture that will give them a steady source of income for that fund. It is entirely separate from their personal wealth. As DM, I will make sure they have sufficient opportunity to pursue these goals, but I will also keep a close watch on just how successful it becomes so that they will always have to work at it. Everyone has fun, players are still balanced in game terms versus what they will encounter while adventuring, no one player is going to get out of balance with the others. I see no problem, and neither do they.
Thermanshs 06-04-04, 09:46 AM	Originally posted by Crisisman Bulabase made some good points. First, to make any of the above mentioned endeavors succeed requires considerable time and money. I would rule the money must come from your personal gold, which is part of your wealth, which means you will have less available for things that help you survive the next encounter. I would rule the money must come from your personal gold, which is part of your wealth, which means you will have less available for things that help you survive the next encounter. Any profits the Rogue makes(which is completely under DM control) will count against his wealth. You can treat the other situations similarly. The time means you aren't adventuring. Does the rest of the group sit around while the Rogue is sailing away on his fleet? If they go with, then that becomes the adventure. The Rogue better have a good leaderstip score or there's going to be mutiny...or worse. I don't see any reason a DM can't handle any of those situations. If you don't want that kind of thing in your campaign, then just don't allow it. All your points are correct,which seems you got the idea of how a player can get powerful in a completely different gaming style,thus getting less wealth from adventuring is a obvious here. Although I think that the profits aren't totally under the DM's control,characters have brains of their own you know and would know beforehand if the sea is kraken infested,the trade routes are constantly attacked by goblin bands etc.Also why put a maximum in a character's wealth amount?Does anyone restrict bill gates from expamding his company?Is there anyone to tell him:Hey dude!You've reached the maximum wealth for your level! So noone sets minimun or maximum limits here...this wealth by level table is only a GUIDE to have an idea whether you're in the standards or not...also this assumes that players play standard adventuring with random encounter-based treasure. Time needed?Of course!We're stepping out of standard adbenture style!Players might have much more fun in sych a game,Bulabase seeming to be one of those. Players often aviod these sorts of things because DMs often use them as adventure material. For example, your rogue's fleet is sunk by Kraken and the like. First off...if the DM meta-games then there's no reason to keep playing with him!What's the master's goals?Ruin every creative action the players attempt?Put a big STOP when the characters' power get out of control? Look...the master HAS to be objective...he just thinks logically the outcome of a player's actions and he may even warn him if what he thinks is way out of reality! Moreover,NO character is forced to act as the adventure says,the mayor has assigned you a mission to clear the haunted mansion.... So what? Who cares? All my rogue cares for is enlarging his pockets...;)
Edward 06-04-04, 12:43 PM	I once made the mistake of purchasing 2 sets of clothes suitable for nobles and the associated jewellery for a level 6 character. I did this instead of going to a mage to have my weapon enchanted. And it covered most of my additional wealth from 5-6. it took me 3 levels to get back up to pace in melee combat during witch time I had several occasions had good cause to where them but was treated no differently from my compatriots wearing adventuring gear (other than the lass in black full plate with a sword bigger than she is who was regarded appropriately). I will never spend a sygnifignt portion of my wealth on such things again. At least not with any GM I have played with to date. Edward
Bulabase 06-04-04, 01:06 PM	I ran an adventure with two different groups in which there was a club for high powered types like adventurers. It was a very exclusive place, modeled after those clubs you see on lifestyles of the rich and famous. Both times, a party member entered the club wearing a hat of disguise instead of real nice clothing and jewelry and was snubbed by the patrons and the staff. No gather information for you. The party member who was successful in both cases was the one who kept jewelry instead of selling it and purchased fine clothing. The first time it was a flamboyant Gnomish aleinist (starting to loose it) and the second a glamerous elven bard. It was a lot of fun for me to RP these encounters since I didn't explicitly say why the illusion based character was being snubbed.
bsatink 06-07-04, 04:09 PM	I have heared many cool things, but still have no idea how much adventure gear a player should have when you want the game to be as balanced as possible ! We have a party with 4 players, 2 are 13th level, 1 is 12th and 1 is 11th level. DM thinks we should life in mansion or keep. We can buy that, but then we have to spend about 25% of our wealth. I think it's a bit too much. Then we don't have enough money to buy life saving equipment. so how much should be spend on adventuring gear, 90% or less?
Twisted Puppy 06-07-04, 04:36 PM	bsatink: If the DM is REQUIRING you to live in a certain place, then he needs to provide it rather than force you to spend your starting funds on it. Certainly requiring you to spend 25% of your wealth on a home seems, to me, uncalled for. The wealth is yours to spend, not the DMs. While he might be justified in restricting some items, or items above, say, 25% of your total wealth, FORCING you to buy something is railroading in the extreme, IMHO. He may strongly suggest you purchase lodging, etc, but he needs to explain himself before making it a requirement. That said, having some "hooks" on which the DM can attach an adventure thread to can be loads of fun. No decent DM is going to destroy the rogue's fleet of ships for fun, but .. the rogue has been such a nuisance to the BBEG, well, one way to hurt the rogue is to take away his fleet. BBEG bribes/coerces/blackmails the Kraken to destroy the ships, enslaving the crews, including the rogue's twin sister, who manages the fleet when he's away.. After a grueling and time-consuming search for the Kraken's lair, the adventurers kill the beast, and among his lair find more than enough treasure to rebuild the rogue's fleet. That's not metagaming by the DM, that's adding to the game by making use of player background.
Thermanshs 06-07-04, 04:39 PM	Excelent response Twisted Puppy...totally agreed for every point you made especially: The wealth is yours to spend, not the DMs. While he might be justified in restricting some items, or items above, say, 25% of your total wealth, FORCING you to buy something is railroading in the extreme, IMHO. He may strongly suggest you purchase lodging, etc, but he needs to explain himself before making it a requirement.
Twisted Puppy 06-07-04, 04:43 PM	double post:embarrass
Crisisman 06-07-04, 04:56 PM	Just one thing to add. If your DM is a good one, and he's suggesting you invest in such a thing, then he probably has a reason. If the DM wants you to spend the gold then he'll probably give you plenty of opportunity to get more elsewhere. I agree that requiring such a major investment is bad.
bsatink 06-07-04, 05:04 PM	Thanks alot! He is not realy forcing us, but he says that we are (compered to commoners) extreme rich and that it's not logical for us to life all together in 1 large house. For that I agree. We have enough wealt so we can afford a little more. But in his world there is nothing between a large house and mansion. I think we will travel alot, so never buy a house or mansion. And when we are rich enough we can settle somewhere. How much wealth do you spend on non combat gear? My character has many expensive outfits like a royals outfit, many shoes etc. (it's a female halfling sorceress)
Thermanshs 06-07-04, 05:13 PM	Originally posted by bsatink I think we will travel alot, so never buy a house or mansion. Fortunately Mordenkainen has come here to put an end to this.Check the (Mordenkainen's Magnificent Mansion) spell in the player's handbook How much wealth do you spend on non combat gear? If I ever play as a player then I assure you that 50% of my treasure would be spent on such stuff...but that's just me...
Edward 06-08-04, 03:32 AM	No matter how rich you are you wouldn’t by loggings more opulent than what you wanted. Very few of my characters would want anything more than a large house (possibly to myself/family) or a wizard tower. Anything greater is a commitment to those beyond yourself. Also buying a house is a form of settling down, something to do at the end (or what you think will be the end) of your adventuring career. Edward
lantzer 06-08-04, 10:29 AM	For me it depends greatly on the particular character. Some would bury the cash in a hole for future retirement. Some would use it to buy the best combat gear available. Some would invest it in businesses as a silent partner. Some would buy clothes and jewelry and other comforts. Some would blow it all on ale, young ladies, and gambling. Some would give it away to help others. One would use it to get hold of a large herd of mares. I've never cared for the idea, "I'm X level, so I should have Y amount of wealth! Gimme!" Those tables in the DMG are suggestions to the GM for what might be useful in balancing encounters. Unfortunately, they foster the idea among some people that "If I don't have my +Y weapon by X level, you are a lousy GM!" If you have more or less wealth, and your character is alive, and your character still feels challenged, then whatever amount your GM has made available is working for his campaign. It could be that the GM knows very well that he's underfunding his PCs, and part of the flavor of his world is that heros are mighty from inner strength, big hearts, great skill, and sheer stubborness, not cool toys. A good GM has encounters that run the gamut from way too easy to nightmarishly deadly. This makes the PCs feel as if the world _doesn't_ revolve around them, which is cool. It also gives them a good feeling later when they can defeat a foe that they ran from screaming several levels ago.
Twisted Puppy 06-08-04, 10:58 AM	Originally posted by Crisisman Just one thing to add. If your DM is a good one, and he's suggesting you invest in such a thing, then he probably has a reason. If the DM wants you to spend the gold then he'll probably give you plenty of opportunity to get more elsewhere. I agree that requiring such a major investment is bad. And if the DM is a good one, he will not take offense if you ask him why he is suggesting you undergo the expense. His answer may be cryptic, or not very revealing - but it should be along the lines of, "it will make the campaign more fun, trust me." Personally, if I suggested a player make a certain expenditure (say for a keep) and the adventure did not work out as planned, or if it turned out that having him buy the home at all was a mistake, I'd admit the mistake, let him sell the keep for what he put into it, and go from there. Bear in mind that the only way the DM is going to improve is by trying new ideas and concepts. And just as some character concepts that players come up with will not work out, so some of the DM's new ideas will not work out either. That happens, shrug it off, and drive on.