Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Learned_Barbarian 12-31-07, 03:50 PM	Hey. I'm wondering if there are any individuals out there who play characters of a gender that is opposite to their own. I'm wondering this because I'm trying to get some of my friends into D&D and am creating characters they can play with. The thing is, I design characters around the miniatures I own (I love collecting) and several of the best minis I have are female (warlock [witch], fighter [based on the Thayan Knight painting in Complete Warrior], and spiked-chain-welding fighter) and my friends are male. I want to create a good variety of characters, but I can't without a little bit of gender-bending. Could anyone give advice on this topic, please. Thanks.
Crimson_Concerto 12-31-07, 03:58 PM	If your players are mature at all, it shouldn't be a big deal to play a character of a different gender. Really, though, I think the bigger deal here is why are you building their characters for them? Part of the fun of playing D&D is playing a character you created yourself, isn't it? I mean, if they consent to it, fine, but if you're playing with mature people, I'd be more concerned about that than about playing opposite gendered characters.
Learned_Barbarian 12-31-07, 04:04 PM	If your players are mature at all, it shouldn't be a big deal to play a character of a different gender. Really, though, I think the bigger deal here is why are you building their characters for them? Part of the fun of playing D&D is playing a character you created yourself, isn't it? I mean, if they consent to it, fine, but if you're playing with mature people, I'd be more concerned about that than about playing opposite gendered characters. Well, my friends are rather mature. As mature as guys in their late teens/early 20s can be I suppose. I'm creating the characters cause they know very little about D&D and I want to make it easier for them to jump in, rather than diving in. That, and I figure since I enjoy the character creation process why shouldn't I just make a pool of characters my friends can draw from.
toucanbuzz 12-31-07, 04:11 PM	If you're mature about it and your group is mature about it, it can work. If you don't know your group that well, some may get weirded out as folks presuppose that your characters are, in part, a reflection of some aspect of yourself. Just make more characters than there are players and include the female mini. If someone wants to play her great, but don't force someone to take it if they don't want to.
Zombie_Babies 12-31-07, 04:14 PM	My friend used to do this with every character he made. It was never a problem and was occasionally funny (his well-endowed valley-girl-esque Paladin was really funny). It only gets strange if the guy PCs start hitting on the "girl". We never did (at least seriously, hehe) so we never had an issue. In an MMO I play all of my characters are female. Gender really doesn't/shouldn't matter. The only concern I have has already been mentioned. Let the players make their own characters- PLEASE. This is the only thing in the game they have control over. Don't take it away from them. Now if all you are doing is making a bunch of characters for them to choose from if they don't want to build a character- well then go for it :)
Learned_Barbarian 12-31-07, 04:21 PM	I'm not going to force anyone to play a character that they don't want. I know I would hate that I were the player. I just want to create characters for minis so that my minis can get some use out of them.
Zombie_Babies 12-31-07, 04:41 PM	Well then best of luck to you! I hope one of your players picks a build you made as well. If I were playing I'd take a look :) I'd also blame you if I died!! :P
Learned_Barbarian 12-31-07, 04:43 PM	If I were playing I'd take a look :) I'd also blame you if I died!! :P :D Thanks for that. :D
mustafathered 12-31-07, 04:44 PM	I recently picked up the blue and black dragon boxed sets that come with minis and pregen chars. The pregen char sheets go into a little detail about how to play the chars too. Between these and the dungeon tiles, this might be a good way to go to teach the game to new people.
danielinthewolvesden 12-31-07, 09:39 PM	Sure, it's fine- as long as folks are at least somewhat mature.
YamiShinobi 01-01-08, 01:57 AM	i play female character's 97% of the time i play, even though i am a guy, most of these women are underage, pedo bait, and still kick plenty, examples i've used before, a gestalt rogue 6/assassin 8// arcane trickster6// //sorcerer 14 (the arcane trickster took both slots in between the gestalt) her sibling, a rogue 10/assassin10//ranger7/shadowdancer/1//beguiler7/witch5 (for the minor healing and the buffs) heres another i used cloistered cleric 20// illusionist 11/healer 9 (swap good fotitude save for good reflex save, banned abjuration and necromancy, carried tons of healing spells) or a pair of twins in one other cmapaign (same saves the cloistered cleric/ilsusionist//healer/healbot) cloistered cleric20//sorcerer11/wizard9 cloisterd cleric9/druid 11 /sorcerer20 (those two, aligment didn't exist) in yet another campaign, i played a wizard20//rogue4/warlock16 who recorded her spells on cards, she was only 12 years old, however since her spells required cards, she didn't have to prepare and could use them without limit as long as she had the card for that spell, (no materials, no xp cost) however she had prophetic dreams. (also added good reflex save in exchange for only being proficient with the rapier and quarterstaff) it was a major cardcaptor sakura flashback or heres a noncaster for you a 13 year old female finesse fighter with a rapier, fighter20//rogue11/assassin9 ended with a +5 flmaing burst, shcoking burst keen rapier, and the improved critical feat, as well as the entire weapon focus, specialization tree with the rapier and melee weapon mastery (piercing and slashing) as well as agilie athelte, weapon finesse and extra finesse. dexterity was 23 after level bonuses with+5 inherent and +6 gloves of dexterity (34 dex, modifier of 12) critical anywhere from 10-20 (18base, 15 keen 10 improved critical) favoring stealth like a rogue (high spot, listen, move silently, hide, escape artist and tumble) insanely high int 18, amazing reflexes, she was moody, arrogant, bipolar, manic depresssant, pms, slim and all that. she didn't wear armor, (she wore armor bonus accessories, +5 bracers of armor, +5 amulet of natural armor, +5 ring of protection, AC37 except when touched, if she used TWF she was even scarier, she had one of these +10 equivalent rapiers in each hand, criticals were guranteed, sneak attack+11d6, full bab, ambidexterity, 2 weapon fighting, each rapier hit at the full base attack bonus, +5 to hit +20 bab +12 dex =+37) definitely a scary little girl. not to mention she dressed like a japanese anime schoolgirl, (sailor style top, kerchief, miniskirt, long flippin socks, she had to use glue to keep them on. wabaki slippers and a few hair ribbons, slaughter by critical anyone?)
FrostHammer 01-01-08, 03:46 AM	Tell us about the adventures of Valley-girl Paladin! I wonder how she is roleplayed. Does she have like 8 int or something?
Infernostrider 01-01-08, 01:01 PM	as long as they keep their hormones within the limits. my dad had a girl player once who kept arousing shopkeepers to get stuff for free, and guy's might try similar vulgar (but hilarious) acts. as long as it all stays restricted a bit, and the game focuses on the game, it should be fine
Silvanas84 01-01-08, 03:41 PM	A valley girl Paladin, that must have been hilarious. I'm a guy but I've played female characters before, it's not a problem if people are mature, IMO it should be freakier to play a elf or a dwarf since they don't actually exist.
annoyinglizardvoice 01-01-08, 07:51 PM	I've DMed for players of both genders who've used a character of the opposite gender. Usually no problems (but I have had aukward players of both genders on rare occasions). I agree with whoever it was who said that it can be more difficult to play a non-human than a member of the opposite sex. I once went through a phase of playing female characters, at about the same time as my then DM went through a phase of over-using his "called shot to the *********" house rules.
CryoSilver 01-01-08, 08:56 PM	MY players almost always play male characters. The one occasion we had a female character it was Olga (pronounced UHLGA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!), the dwarf, to much hilarity. Sadly, Olga died in the second session, victim of an exploding gnomish device.
MrCustomer 01-01-08, 10:52 PM	It's not just about maturity, some people are comfortable with playing an opposite gender, some people are uncomfortable with it. Personally I occassionally will play a female character if it comes up Noone should be made uncomfortable playing, and it would be a shame to ruin their first DnD experience by forcing them to play a character that they are uncomfortable with. Ask ahead of time if any would like to play a female character, only give them a female if they say they are willing to play one.
pale_enchantress 01-01-08, 11:51 PM	I'm a female irl, and I sometimes play male characters. One of my characters was once even a woman pretending to be a man pretending to be a woman.
mearrin69 01-02-08, 12:27 AM	...a woman pretending to be a man pretending to be a woman. Well, that's complex :) I am a guy and I have only ever played male characters at the table. Recently joined an online campaign though (using Fantasy Grounds) and I have been playing a female sorcerer - it has been quite fun. I'm basing a lot of her personality on that of a former employee. Not sure I'd ever play a female character at the table though. The beard just might make it hard for other players to suspend their disbelief. :) Oh, I tend to stick with Human too. Maybe someday I'll try a female elf but, for now, I'll probably stick with male humans. I'm fairly new to the 'roleplaying' aspect of RPGS - back in the day we were pretty much hack and slash - so I'm trying to change just one variable at a time. For me, so far, class has been that variable (I am sadly *not* a wizard). M
Rogue Elendae 01-02-08, 02:29 AM	As a woman who once played a male Ranger PC, I can say that so long as the group's comfortable with a player using a cross-gendered PC, it's not much of a problem. However, be ready for the DM to possibly stumble over it a few times. The person who was DMing the session I played the Ranger in (a member of our gaming group, but not our usual DM, and not the greatest overall at it) couldn't keep it straight; every time he'd go to address me (in character), he'd reflexively want to refer to my character as "she," or "her," no matter how often I reminded him that I was playing a guy, and very deliberately trying to get in-character and act/sound the part, he still couldn't quite get it. Sometimes, when the DM/other players are used to looking at you and thinking X, telling them that you're playing Y doesn't always work out when you're face-to-face. But it can be fun to try. :D
Meshakhad 01-02-08, 03:19 AM	I'm male, and I play both genders. Sometimes a concept works better with a female character, sometimes with a male. I seem to favor a particular gender for a particular class: Male: Crusader Fighter Hexblade Ninja Ranger Rogue Swordsage Warblade Female: Druid Monk Paladin (I make a lot of these) Warlock (I make a lot of these) Either: Cleric Favored Soul Sorceror My DMs never have an issue with me playing a female character. I haven't had an issue with male characters or NPCs hitting on said female characters, even though most of them are paladins and warlocks, and have high Charisma scores. If it happened once or twice, I'd take it as roleplaying, and ensure that the offending character never repeated his mistake (beat the character to a pulp, or use a disabling spell/invocation). If it happened repeatedly, I'd use lethal force.
Zombie_Babies 01-02-08, 11:29 AM	Tell us about the adventures of Valley-girl Paladin! I wonder how she is roleplayed. Does she have like 8 int or something? Hmm. I believe it was an 8 at best. It's been years so the memories are a little bit fuzzy. She refused to use her detect evil and so we used that to our advantage. Two of us were evil (one on overtly sadistic dwarf, IIRC) but she trusted us implicitly. The fun was when we had to explain our actions. He RPd her to buy any story we put to her. Mostly it was the attitude that was fun. She was the perfect ditzy blond. A lot over the top, sure but not too offensive, hehe. Oh. We also always had to get her out of trouble with men. She was clueless with the flirting stuff and would take double entendre at face value. This, of course, led her to agree to things she had no intention of doing. Lot's o' bar fights. Good times . . .
Ikyotojin 01-02-08, 11:49 AM	Here's an idea - use the miniatures just as place holders on the table! "What is your character? A ranger? Ok, here." "But this is a woman. Got any guys with a bow and hooded cloak?" "Nope. Gonna have to use your imagination till we can get one you like." That is called imagination. Give it a try. ;) It also gives you an excuse for people to buy miniatures for their characters.
Dog_O_War 01-02-08, 12:18 PM	And the negative winds of dissention spread into this thread.... I have had a female character or two in the past. I don't recommend playing them though. I also have a friend who plays female characters, alot (about 60-70% of all his characters in all the games he plays is female), and he does this without making them a stereo-type. Unfortunately, he is the one ecception I've seen. Most guys will come off as a complete stereotype (the valley-girl paladin would annoy me to no end) as it is a very sexist view of a gender that we simply do not understand. Even my friend would've never gone for a male love interest in a game, unless it were a foriegn creature to his own type (think Huma from Dragonlance). This is the distinction I see between having the ability to play a character to the fullest, and having a mental limitor as to what your character will do. Players will always attempt to see a little bit of themselves in each character; there is nothing wrong with this (infact, I recommend it as it allows a stronger bond between character and player), but what a straight male generally won't do is act like a straight female. Or he goes overboard and fits into the stereotype I have described above. Or they are lesbians, which is unrealistic as with a rotating cast of players (all of whom might play female characters), none will 'go for' another PC despite said PC's charisma and personality, simply because the player is male. That and you'll soon find that there is a disproportionate amount of lesbian adventurers. That last part leads to a lack of versimilitude, which means the world itself will seem a little less believeable. If your striving for a serious game, do not allow gender bending characters. If you want a funny, albiet sexist, stereotypical game, then go ahead. Most players don't realize they do these things BTW, so what you need to do is forego the 'minis as a character' design and just make 3 male characters not attached to a figurine. It will allow these new players to 'get into' the game more easily. What they choose for characters afterwards is up to them.
Mercurius 01-02-08, 01:16 PM	If your striving for a serious game, do not allow gender bending characters. If you want a funny, albiet sexist, stereotypical game, then go ahead. Most players don't realize they do these things BTW, so what you need to do is forego the 'minis as a character' design and just make 3 male characters not attached to a figurine. It will allow these new players to 'get into' the game more easily. What they choose for characters afterwards is up to them. Is a game less serious when the DM has to play female NPCs as well as male NPCs? No? Then why would it be any different for cross-gendered PCs. Myself, I almost always play female characters, and I have fun doing it, but I also avoid most stereotypes (my wife's never complained about how my female characters behaved, at the least). So long as everyone can handle a game maturely, it shouldn't be an issue whether or not your gender is the same as your characters, any more than it should matter whether you're a tall guy playing a halfling, or a human playing an elf.
Xiuhcoatl 01-02-08, 01:27 PM	If your striving for a serious game, do not allow gender bending characters. No offense, but this is pretty blatantly wrong. I've played a female druid in a campaign - it was a very serious game, even if her hatred of halflings came out in a somewhat comical way at times. I've played a female wizard/cleric in a gestalt eberron campaign and again - it was a serious game, even if I added a strange quirk with her (she collected forks). Gender has absolutely nothing to do with playing a serious game - race and class combinations are far more important.
Zombie_Babies 01-02-08, 01:36 PM	Good lord. The valley-girl in question was a stereotype. A hyperbole of that bouncy, effervescent yet incredibly vapid girl we all knew. She was extreme in her duplication. Why? Well it's pretty damned obvious. We play in a macho world. We despise women. If they wanna adventure they better be cookin' round my campfire! Or... maybe it was a joke. A bit o' the ol' fun mayhap? A statement against stereotypes? (After all, she was a Paladin and was exremely tough.) Possibly showing that women can be hereos too? Or maybe my group thinks that all women are merely moronic walking baby makers. Yup. That sounds more like it. Gods. Do you watch television? Movies? Listen to comedians? Not every moment of every game has to be 100% serious. Life isn't like that. Some of us like to have fun. We have even stereotyped Dwarves (the race), Drow, Clerics, Elves, etc, etc. What bastards... The OP asked a question. I answered it. I was asked to provide some detail about my response. That is all. It was not submitted for criticism or to have my psyche dissected. You need to understand that people play differently than you do. You need to understand that people have different views on things. You need to understand that experiments in game are simply that. Most importantly you need to understand that it is wring to make assumptions about a game or group that you have never seen. [Rant/]
CrazyOzzy 01-02-08, 01:57 PM	In D&D, I play a sexist DM. I have difficulty not only roleplaying women as NPCs but even more so in imagining one as an adventurer. I just can't imagine a female Barbarian, Fighter, Paladin... well almost everything except rogue or sorcerer. I dislike when my (male) friends play female characters in MMOs and I would also if it happened in my D&D games but it has never happened. I am also ashamed to say that I once believed that women in D&D should get stat penalties. As a result, there are very few women in my games! It's stupid but most women are housewives or waitresses. Having said all this, I wish to be cured. why do I have difficulty in roleplaying women NPCs? Why do I think that it is ridiculous for a man to play a female character? Why do I find it hard to believe that a woman could adventure? HELP ME :D
Dog_O_War 01-02-08, 02:05 PM	What I said isn't wrong; I said there are exceptions. For most players that attempt to play a female character though, what I said still holds truth. Most men cannot do so seriously or realistically, and to have a players' first character be one of another gender is a fomula for desaster in a serious game. I have witnessed many, many male players attempt the female character, and they have all failed, save for one. But even then I knew he was limited in choice simply because there were lines he wouldn't cross. Maybe my sampling of players who've played female characters is off, but I highly doubt it. There are few exceptional players that play (I think we can all agree to this), and of these how many will play a character with a gender opposite to their own? With the numbers being very low in probability you're going to get the stereotypes and sexism insinuations more than anything else. Just because you can play one does not mean that everyone can. Valley-girl is the perfect example; while funny, it isn't for a serious game, and at its worst it is incredibly sexist of its male-view of women. As for the DM playing both men and women; I am of the opinion that the DM's characters should be played with a doctors' objectivity. He can really get into a role, but I don't think he should develope an attachment to them; they will most likely be killed or kill PC's that do said NPC wrong (Murphy's Law). Since the DM has such a wide array of characters that he has to play, he really can't develope the same attachment that the PC's do with theirs anyway. I just don't think it is a good idea (however well intentioned) to have three new players thrown completely out of sinq with everything they know. EDIT: I just read Ozzy's post and would like to state that I have no problem with players that play female characters. I believe whole-heartedly in equality (with a few exceptions, but that is personal) and create my game to be this way. I decide on a personality and traits for a given NPC, male or female, and follow through on those lines. While Female NPC and male player/male character relations can get somewhat akward when it comes to two dudes RPing a flirtatious encounter, I treat it with objectivity as best I can. I draw the line to certain aspects of my game (sex, overtly grusome tendancies like cannibalism, etc..., and other cryteria dependant on the game theme at the time), but this line is just for 'in game' occurances. I have had to sit through many akward moments thanks to a few players treating their female characters as sub-humans, as well as had the game get that feel of disbelief because when they weren't prostitutes, they were lesbians. Sometimes both. I think that a player should have to prove they are capable of RPing a person of opposite gender by RPing a person of their own gender with maturity. While I don't do it Ozzy's way, I can totally understand where he's coming from, and applaud him for his ability to know what he is capable of. We live in a male-dominated world, and to turn a blind eye to that may be easy for some of us in game, but I find that most men are just not capable in that regard.
Zombie_Babies 01-02-08, 02:37 PM	So the proper reply to in game stereotyping is to stereotype (most) male players. Interesting. A game can be serious with jokes in it. Just because you or your friends cannot handle it doesn't mean no man can. It's that simple.
Mercurius 01-02-08, 03:47 PM	Regarding the crux of the reason for the OP's question, I think that the "I have female minis, so the PCs should be female" part is a bit flawed. Firstly, it seems that generating gender-neutral characters and allowing the players to decide their gender would be better, and there's a wide enough variety of minis (and, honestly, at least with WotC minis, female figs were pretty rare and crappy looking for a good long while, while male minis were plentiful) that you should be able to have two "appropriate" minis, one of which is male and one of which is female. It's also a good idea, if you're introducing players, to go with something rather simple in build, rather than a complicated character, in order to introduce the crux of the rules. Keep that in mind.
Dog_O_War 01-02-08, 04:57 PM	So the proper reply to in game stereotyping is to stereotype (most) male players. Interesting. A game can be serious with jokes in it. Just because you or your friends cannot handle it doesn't mean no man can. It's that simple. Men and women are of different minds and thought patterns. There have been many books and such to document this. So to say that a man cannot play a female correctly is not wrong. There are exceptions, but with three new players it is hard to correctly tabulate what one's RP ability will be right out of the gate. Giving them females to play won't be the greatest of decisions; you're asking too much too soon.
The_Shaman 01-02-08, 05:08 PM	I am also ashamed to say that I once believed that women in D&D should get stat penalties. I think AD&D had different maximal stats for female characters... I'm not sure if there was an area where the max for females was higher than the max for males, though. I could understand it, and it could work if the bonuses/penalties cancel each other out - as I think Troika's Arcanum: of Steamwork and Magic Obscura handled the issue. Anyway, I'm currently trying it out by running a female necromancer in a PbP game. So far it's going okay, but if I need to handle a gender-heavy topic I think I'll either have to ask someone for directions or hope I don't mess up too bad.
Entropy_Judge 01-02-08, 05:29 PM	I think AD&D had different maximal stats for female characters... I'm not sure if there was an area where the max for females was higher than the max for males, though. AD&D 1st Edition did, don't know about 2nd. But, no, there wasn't an area where females had higher stats than men. For Human and Half-Orcs, though, the only differences were in STR, where males had 18/00 and 18/99 respectively, and females had 18/50 and 18/75 respectively.
TimelordSimone 01-02-08, 05:49 PM	Sometimes a concept works better with a female character, sometimes with a male. This is what I was gonna say (sort of). I've only ever played one female character. She was a sort of black widow-esque witch style sorcerer. The noble boy who's been engaged 7 times just isn't as cool. Unfortunately, the campaign did not last very long, so I never got to play her to her full potential... She remains one of my favourite characters though.
annoyinglizardvoice 01-02-08, 08:41 PM	As a woman who once played a male Ranger PC, I can say that so long as the group's comfortable with a player using a cross-gendered PC, it's not much of a problem. However, be ready for the DM to possibly stumble over it a few times. The person who was DMing the session I played the Ranger in (a member of our gaming group, but not our usual DM, and not the greatest overall at it) couldn't keep it straight; every time he'd go to address me (in character), he'd reflexively want to refer to my character as "she," or "her," no matter how often I reminded him that I was playing a guy, and very deliberately trying to get in-character and act/sound the part, he still couldn't quite get it. Sometimes, when the DM/other players are used to looking at you and thinking X, telling them that you're playing Y doesn't always work out when you're face-to-face. But it can be fun to try. :D A female player has a male wizard in my game. She has taken to writing "I AM A MAN" on the top of her character sheets to remind players who still refer to the character as her. Said players continually failed to notice that she was using a male miniature and that the NPCs were responding to her character as a bloke.
Malek2991 01-02-08, 11:51 PM	I'm a man and as a DM (usually), I have many female NPC's to run, and my DMPC's (Usually clerics) are very rarely males. Most opponents the PC's fight are males, but they still fight a reasonable number of female opponents. I have played female characters in games, though my character in the longest running game I did not DM was male. Like someone else said earlier I usually go by the classes. My Clerics, Druids, Paladins, Sorcerresses, and Monks are usually female, while Warlocks, Fighters, Wizards, Bards, and Rangers are usually male. Rogues are 50-50 (they're not my favorite class so I tend to make fewer of them even as enemies to the party). Any other class depends on my mood. Occasionally I will mix it up (I do make male clerics for example). As far as players go I have had male characters play female characters, and vice versa with no major problems. Although I admit I usually forget quickly so the players often have to remind me, sadly that often means I screw up the NPC I made's gender if I'm not careful.
Rogue Elendae 01-03-08, 03:13 AM	A female player has a male wizard in my game. She has taken to writing "I AM A MAN" on the top of her character sheets to remind players who still refer to the character as her. Said players continually failed to notice that she was using a male miniature and that the NPCs were responding to her character as a bloke. Oh, good...I was wondering if I was actually the only female player trying to play a male PC that ever had that happen. Of course, I always figured it was just because the player who wanted to DM that particular session tended to look at my chest every time he tried to address me in character...that'd certainly break one's suspension of disbelief (and the annoying thing is, it wasn't like he was being a perv or anything...he doesn't do it when talking to my PC when he's also a player, rather than DM. It just seemed to be this strange tic that prevented him from acknowledging my PC as male that one time :rolleyes: ). That sorta meant no matter how low and rough I made my voice (I'm low alto and gravelly, so tenor's not far off for me), he just couldn't visualize me as a guy. To the OP, I'd just like to suggest that you don't try to blatantly over-play the fact that the character is female. This is the sort of thing where a little can go a long way (and too much one way or another can get into the realm of stereotypes, as other posters have warned), and subtlety can help keep things from descending too far into comedic. Plus, I've found that it can be easier on the voice if you're not trying to affect an in-character voice that's too far out of your natural range, if you're one to do that sort. A guy trying to put on a soprano voice or a girl attempting to sound deep and gravelly can often veer into the ridiculous, and sometimes put the game a bit out of whack. Of course, that's all dependent upon your group, but I've seen ours go into gales of laughter when our DM tries to play the shrill female NPC. YMMV.
TheDragonmaster 01-03-08, 06:44 AM	I (male, I think) have been playing both male and female characters, and since I don't stress gender much, there have been no issues. Think of it as a video game. As long as you keep out of relationships (NPC's maybe but no PC's), it'll be running straight. But, thinking of it, I might have been running androgynous characters all along. As I play in worlds in which equality exists as more than a fancy word, gender rarely affects roleplaying except for relationships, something I have (so far) succeeded in avoiding alltogether.
doozie 01-03-08, 07:20 AM	make them all changelings. They don't even manifest a gender until puberty... ...as if it wasn't tramautizing enough already. The worst part is when you change into a woman to get a free drink or as a practical joke on a friend, then you wake up the next day with morning sickness and the DM tells you that you just failed a fortitude save vs pregnancy.
Voran 01-03-08, 02:26 PM	As long as the creepiness factor is relatively low, no biggie. I have no issues with dudes playing girls or girls playing dudes any more than I have issues with gay dudes playing not gay dudes or lesbians playing hetero romantic interests in a romantic comedy movie. It just needs to come across as plausible. Rosie Odonnell does not make a convincing romantic interest in a romantic comedy, for example. :) Seriously tho, in a game group, I go on the 'creepiness factor'. So dudes shouldn't play girls, and it tends to be pretty obvious which dudes those are. They need to be taken aside and told, "Dude, you're not a magical princess. Quit playing them, you're creeping the hell outta us."
The_Shaman 01-03-08, 04:04 PM	The worst part is when you change into a woman to get a free drink or as a practical joke on a friend, then you wake up the next day with morning sickness and the DM tells you that you just failed a fortitude save vs pregnancy. Fortitude save? I dunno, I'm a guy and that still feels like bad taste.
Rahvan 01-03-08, 06:16 PM	Yes, I play characters of the opposite gender to my own, or just make sure that they have no gender worth noting (Also known as the Warforged), On occasion I used a tibbit who went psion(Psychometabolism) and took the minor shapechange alternate class ability... T'worked well enough, he always was the proper gender for the job, even though he had a maximum limit of 0 feet to 4 feet... (He could turn tiny as a cat and shapechange to a mouse or something ^^)
ToastedAmphibian 01-03-08, 06:59 PM	Anyone notice that NOONE, including the dog, seems to think that women "Arn't Capable" of role-playing a male character without resorting to sterotypes? Why is it that the sexism arguments never swing both ways? Mabey i just grew up around too many women, but teh rampant reverse sexism prevelant in most aspects of modern life, including this board apparently, offends me on a very fundamental and personal level. Get over it already damn you. Yes men and women are diffrent. Both when you get right down to it both are humans, and both are individuals. The difrences in gender are overshadowed by the similiarites of the species and diffrences of the individuals to such an extent that 99.7% (Imaginary number, obviously) of anythign that you could say regarding "Women" or "Men" applies nearly equally as much to the opposite group as to the one to which you applied it. Its like a point buy. Everyone starts at 8 Men get a +1 somewhere Women get a +1 somewhere else After your done, everyone is who they are because that is WHO THEY ARE, not because of the minor effect of gender. If someone wants to play a cross gendered character, let them. If theyu dont want to, dont make them. If they do so in a way you find offensive, tell them so and ask them to stop. If they dont, then that is a bigger issue than sexism or maturity level. It is a sign of obvious disrespect and should be dealt with acordingly. [/rant]
Meshakhad 01-03-08, 08:24 PM	I don't understand what miniatures have to do with anything. I always create my character, develop a description, maybe even make up a quick backstory - and then scramble for a miniature just as the game starts. I'll pick the miniature that most closely resembles the character. I won't make a new character because we don't have a miniature that remotely resembles my current one. I can even use things other than miniatures - I have an Israeli shekel in my wallet that could do. And as for in-game romance, I just don't do it. Even with male characters.
Mock26 01-03-08, 08:34 PM	If your striving for a serious game, do not allow gender bending characters. If you want a funny, albiet sexist, stereotypical game, then go ahead. It is my experience that that is only true when dealing with immature and/or homophobic players. I have been in quite a few serious games with some players (myself included) playing a character of the opposite sex. In fact, I would say that I've been in more non-serious games with no cross-gender characters than I have serious games with cross-gender characters. There is nothing about a cross-gender character that would or would not make a game any less serious or mature or whatever. It is the player that makes a game less serious or mature or whatever.
Mock26 01-03-08, 08:36 PM	I don't understand what miniatures have to do with anything. Some people like to have the miniature accurately represent the character. Some people require it. It is just a "personal quirk" that some people have, and there is nothing wrong with that, just as there is nothing wrong with using a kobold figurine to represent a human female paladin.
CryoSilver 01-03-08, 09:55 PM	Cross-gender characters are where online games really shine. Unless the acting is truly terrible, it's much easier for a player to play a character of the opposite gender, since none of the other players ever actually see them in person.
PinkTaco 01-03-08, 11:25 PM	Why is it awkward when a player roleplays a cross-gendered PC but not when a DM roleplays a cross-gendered NPC?
Cold Napalm 01-04-08, 01:51 AM	Oh, good...I was wondering if I was actually the only female player trying to play a male PC that ever had that happen. Of course, I always figured it was just because the player who wanted to DM that particular session tended to look at my chest every time he tried to address me in character...that'd certainly break one's suspension of disbelief (and the annoying thing is, it wasn't like he was being a perv or anything...he doesn't do it when talking to my PC when he's also a player, rather than DM. It just seemed to be this strange tic that prevented him from acknowledging my PC as male that one time :rolleyes: ). That sorta meant no matter how low and rough I made my voice (I'm low alto and gravelly, so tenor's not far off for me), he just couldn't visualize me as a guy. You know, I played a female character in a game once where one player kept forgetting that my character was female (the others didn't have any problems...just the one guy)...so I started taking all his comment refering me in the male perogotive as IC and so I continually glared at him with a shrilliest voice I can muster(I have a deep voice so this was hard) with my hand cupped under my chest saying "these are call breasts my dear, and I'm a GIRL"...much to the amusement of all. He never did get over that....
High Octane 01-04-08, 02:05 AM	Female played right shouldnt be that different from a male character in your mentality. Female played wrong: "Wanna see my boobies?" The only reason a cross gendered character would be awkward is if sexual relations came into play. And only that should be awkward if its between players.
kelvinaw273 01-04-08, 06:34 AM	I often play cross-gender, and a lot of the best players I have played and DMed with in the past have done likewise. Really, it's never been an issue. In some games it doesn't matter, because they are RP-lite, in others it seldom raises it's head because most of the players are mature. If a player is that immature that they would act like a fool, I'd not be playing with them.
Zombie_Babies 01-04-08, 10:10 AM	Saying that it's not possible for a player to play a cross-gendered character correctly is rediculous. The DM must do this in nearly every session. Does the DM Mantle somehow magically transform them into an able cross-gender NPC player? Does it somehow force them to play that NPC seriously? No. If the DM can do so, so can any player (most of the time- applies to DMs too). Saying PCs should never do this as they cannot properly convey the personality of that character but DMs are ok because they somehow can is assinine. Let them play whatever they want. The standard board advice* applies (as always). If there is an issue talk about it. If it cannot be resolved- leave. ** I swear we'd have so many less arguments if people could just remember those two staples of board wisdom.**
Voran 01-04-08, 02:08 PM	Unfortunately people seem to tend to go with the 3rd staple of forum guidelines, "When wrong or of differing opinion, its best to spend the next 3 pages replying to everyone who's told you you're wrong or have a different perspective, quoting each and every paragraph if necessary, and completely ignoring good arguments for your stubborn world view"
CelineSSauve 01-04-08, 03:55 PM	I have personally had no problems playing male characters, be it for Mushes or D&D PbP, but as that implies, I've rarely played at a table. This is because I've had trouble getting groups together face-to-face and find online schedules (where one just needs to slip on for an hour or two and can multitask while gaming) seems to work out better for those I've found to form online groups with. That said, I have played 4 table top characters. 2 AD&D, 1 3.0, 1 3.5. One of the AD&D characters was a male, the others were females. Why? Because the rest of the group were always males and I figured since they were playing guys, I'd play a girl to keep things simple. I am moving home soon though (read: at the end of the month. Whoot!) and my boyfriend and his buddies are starting to game again. I might play a guy then or not. It truly depends on the character concept than anything else. Some of my ideas screamed for a female PC, others for a male, and a handful were randomly selected when I decided on a name. :D As to the OP: So long as your Players don't mind you making up their sheets and basing their characters on minis then I see no problems with it. One of the most interesting games I played in was one where the players wrote up their characters' BGs and the DM made up their sheets, including extra skill points or bonus Feats to fit the concept. All the players voted when we gained a level and the DM did that for us as well since he had so much fun with the original sheets he handed to us.
kiananiobe 01-04-08, 05:55 PM	There are two kinds of people: those that divide people into two kinds and those that don't. lol I couldn't think of anything else that was relevant and makes sense... Happy new year everyone! ^.^
SearcherOmega 01-04-08, 09:40 PM	Wow. It's hard to believe it's been going on this long, nor can I believe I'm actually reading some of these entries. I'm very tempted to break into a rant about how much it makes my head hurt to see that people are so worked up about such a simple issue. A person who cannot roleplay the opposite sex without breaking out ridiculous stereotypes is probably incapable of the level of roleplay required for a character-driven game anyway. In the current D&D campaign I run, three fourths of the party is female. All of the players are male. I myself have played countless male and female NPCs of multiple ethnicities and races. I have yet to find anything objectionable about their behavior. To echo some of the earlier (and sensible) posters, it depends entirely on the maturity of the individuals in question. And to the OP - I would personally recommend letting them build their own characters. However, if you are concerned about character and player genders being crossed, go ahead and ask them about their ideas of roleplaying. That's really the best way to get a grasp on what they're comfortable with. I've played entirely different species. I've played individuals with different religious beliefs than my own in both fictitious and modern settings. I've played people of different ethnicities, people who hail from different countries than my own, and people with all sorts of beliefs and personality traits contrary to my own. I fail to see how playing a person with a gender different from my own is such a big deal.
Zephania 01-05-08, 02:15 PM	My group never realy had this situation until the Paladin was 1-hitted by a clay golem. We didn't have the money for Raise dead, but the druid had reincarnate prepared, so after the %'s he was a female elf. We took the liberty of making all the joke while the female player was out, and now it's more just for humor between him and the bard(since the paladin has higher CHA)
mplindustries 01-05-08, 05:36 PM	Anyone notice that NOONE, including the dog, seems to think that women "Arn't Capable" of role-playing a male character without resorting to sterotypes? Why is it that the sexism arguments never swing both ways? Actually, I think that an equal number of women do have a hard time playing male characters. I've run games with two different women playing men and they were very unconvincing. In the end, they agreed and never did it again. I do think its doable, though, to act like someone of another gender and not do so offensively. I would even say it might be somewhat easy. Most of the arguments against this have been about sexual tension and stuff like that. If you play D&D and sexual tension comes up as a theme ever, I am sorry to say you're a little bit creepy. If you think a female in the party should fall in love with and wet herself over every man with 18 charisma, you're pretty well off the mark there. Look at it this way, how many people find Paris Hilton attractive? Way too many (and not me...she has a face like a bird). And yet, she's probably one of the most annoying people on the planet to talk to, and I don't know many people who wouldn't agree to that. Charisma: maybe 8 tops. Meanwhile, look all over the place for ugly people who got married and are in love. Attraction is a personal thing, game stats can't and shouldn't replicate it, and nobody should have to fall for anyone else in game to enforce realism. The issue is usually not with the player's acting, it is with the other player's reception of that acting. If you've known people for a long time, it'll be hard for them to get into character and view you as anything but yourself. Pronouns will get messed up. Period. It will happen and it will hurt the immersion. Meanwhile, if you play with new people, they're pretty likely to be weirded out because they don't know what you're really like yet. I mean, how many of us played in a game with a new guy who played, maybe a kind healer who always took mercy, but then were shocked and horrified when he turned out to be kind of a jerk? We all associate the characters with the people playing them. Now imagine what people would think if the new guy at the table not just roleplayed a girl, but did it well. For the purposes of the main question being discussed, can people roleplay the opposite gender: Its not that hard to roleplay the opposite gender. It is, however, hard for people to perceive you as the opposite gender. I'd suggest doing it if you were somehow removed from the game, such as is the case in an online game of some kind, but I'd avoid it at a table with your friends. As for the question posed by the original poster: Miniatures don't have to look like the characters. You can use Sorry! pieces on the battlemap and it works. As long as everyone knows who is who, there should be no issue. I never used a battlemap before this past year, but when my characters have long hair or something, I tend to use a female piece. With armor and stuff its kind of hard to tell anyway. And most of the girls at the table (half of the players actually) use male miniatures because they don't have a dual-wielding female, for example.
kiananiobe 01-09-08, 06:24 AM	To me, it appears as if the discussion is using confusing words. Is it about playing the opposite gender or the opposite sex? There is a difference, though maybe not to most people. The body you are in refers to your sex, how you feel about yourself makes up your gender. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender can explain it better :p) So I think most mature players are able to play a sex opposite to their own, but it might be confusing to keep perceiving them as such by the other players because you are still in the same body, hence people having to write I AM A MAN and such. It might not be the opposite gender though... for me the only difference when playing male is playing as if you had a male body. I'm pretty sure most of the time the rest still sees me sitting there, not who I'm playing, but that's up to everyone's imagination and role-playing skills. I always liked role-playing games because it gives you a chance to think outside the box, explore the wonders of the world and the feeling that anything is possible. So why not consider this for your fellow adventurers as well? But I must agree, it shouldn't depend solely on what miniatures or sock puppets you have hanging around; the players' skill level should also be taken into account. Some people aren't open minded enough. Yet :)
old_dm 01-09-08, 08:12 AM	My instinct here is to just forget that I read through all that garbage, and just let this thread die, but after having been through the aforementioned garbage I just don't feel that I can. I see words like "mature" appearing a lot in this thread. Personally I don't see what being or not being mature about anything has to do with this thread. A four year old who has a transvestite father could, I'm sure, deal with the idea of a man in womens clothing quite easily. Is that four year old mature? Maturity has nothing to do with it. Preference is the better word. That having been said, to the OP I would say that if your players aren't upset by the idea of transvestites, then they would probably be ok playing a chick. That is what playing a chick is ya know. Its pretending to be a girl. Its talking like a girl. Its reacting like a girl. Its behaving like a girl. etc etc. Its pretending to be a girl. Just like the trannys do.
Elsydeon 01-09-08, 09:52 AM	Here's a different take. I've only played one female character, and it was in a modern reality conspiracy game. I was fine with it there, and since it was an all male group at the time I wanted to balance out the testosterone a little (Very little. She was an italian). However, I don't play females in fantasy, cyberpunk, etc. Not because I'm not mature enough, but because I like to put myself into the shoes of my avatar in the fantasy world. I have a hard time doing that as a female character. Sometimes it's just personal preferences. I'd make the sheets for the minis, make there be more minis than players, make sure there are enough male minis to go around, and just see what they pick.
Ongorth 01-09-08, 02:06 PM	Men and women are of different minds and thought patterns. There have been many books and such to document this. So to say that a man cannot play a female correctly is not wrong. Any two peoples minds have different thought patterns and yet in roleplaying games we allow people to play characters who are themselves. To play a character of a different sex or gender seems like a VERY superficial difference compared to trying to play a character from a different culture or even a different social class within a culture.
Jarsallen 01-09-08, 02:32 PM	To play a character of a different sex or gender seems like a VERY superficial difference compared to trying to play a character from a different culture or even a different social class within a culture. Mostly I have trouble wrapping my mind around playing a character that is 180 years old and summons destructive balls of energy out of thin air with his mind. It's almost as tricky as trying to accurately portray someone who has only the most passing fear of getting stabbed as he has 200 hit points and an armor class of 60.
Zombie_Babies 01-09-08, 03:26 PM	Mostly I have trouble wrapping my mind around playing a character that is 180 years old and summons destructive balls of energy out of thin air with his mind. It's almost as tricky as trying to accurately portray someone who has only the most passing fear of getting stabbed as he has 200 hit points and an armor class of 60. Or trying to come up with a fitting strategy that someone with an 18 Int would approve of...or trying to persuade a king to let you do X...etc, etc. Yup. Playin a girl is teh crazies!
Ongorth 01-09-08, 03:26 PM	Mostly I have trouble wrapping my mind around playing a character that is 180 years old and summons destructive balls of energy out of thin air with his mind. It's almost as tricky as trying to accurately portray someone who has only the most passing fear of getting stabbed as he has 200 hit points and an armor class of 60. That would make for a somewhat different life experience, wouldn't it? But, apparently, its more conceivable then being a woman.
Dog_O_War 01-09-08, 03:57 PM	Any two peoples minds have different thought patterns and yet in roleplaying games we allow people to play characters who are themselves. To play a character of a different sex or gender seems like a VERY superficial difference compared to trying to play a character from a different culture or even a different social class within a culture. Dude, you're comparing what has been considered mastered (acting) in a fractionally shorter time than the mystery of men and women. Men think and do things alike, same as women do. This is for a number of factors that I cannot even name. A person can act as a member of the opposite gender, but to say that any man could play a woman is to say that women are not complicated; yeah that arguement holds water. We as a society have pegged cultures and out-looks far easier than we have men and women. We know stereotypes for both, but we can only know ourselves. We can be of another culture without a radical physiological change, but to be another gender is practically inconcieveable, unless a person was predetermined to act as such. This is why I suggested not thowing new players into the deep end of RP right away.
Lincoln Hills 01-09-08, 04:06 PM	I'm wondering if there are any individuals out there who play characters of a gender that is opposite to their own... Yes. Yes, there are. That is all.
Zombie_Babies 01-09-08, 04:47 PM	Dude, you're comparing what has been considered mastered (acting) Emphasis mine. Acting was once reserved for males only. Shakespearian plays were performed solely by men. Lady MacBeth, for example, was played by a man. So was Ophelia. Were these characters not deep? Let's keep in mind that they were created by a man as well... "Playing" a character is a form of acting. We do not become our characters. We emulate them. This is acting. Nothing more. If we need to "become" our characters in order to RP them properly we could never be a Dwarf, Wizard, etc because they don't exist. Keep in mind, the Bard himself said this: "All the world's a stage; The people, merely players." :)
Dog_O_War 01-09-08, 05:04 PM	Emphasis mine. Acting was once reserved for males only. Shakespearian plays were performed solely by men. Lady MacBeth, for example, was played by a man. So was Ophelia. "Playing" a character is a form of acting. We do not become our characters. We emulate them. This is acting. Nothing more. If we need to "become" our characters in order to RP them properly we could never be a Dwarf, Wizard, etc because they don't exist. Keep in mind, the Bard himself said this: "All the world's a stage; The people, merely players." :) And I would like you to note that traditionally the inexperienced and youngest actors played those women because people (men) were (are) sexist. Also, when women were finally allowed to partake in the craft, they quickly mastered and superceeded those men, making them look like ametuers. Speaks volumes of how we portrayed women, and how women actually are.
Zombie_Babies 01-09-08, 05:13 PM	And I would like you to note that traditionally the inexperienced and youngest actors played those women because people (men) were (are) sexist. Also, when women were finally allowed to partake in the craft, they quickly mastered and superceeded those men, making them look like ametuers. Speaks volumes of how we portrayed women, and how women actually are. I wasn't commenting on perceived or real sexism. I was pointing out that there was a time when men were considered capable of emulating women. I also contend that they are still capable. I also still cannot fathom how one could say that men cannot play women but men can play Elves, Clerics, Warbades, Psions, etc. Out of curiosity, what are your feelings on playing an evil character? Should we not attempt this unless we too have commited an evil act? Should I not play a Swashbuckler because I am hardly a swordsman? I can't possibly create a feeling within myself (or others) to duplicate what an actual murder would feel like. Nor can I properly describe life or death swordplay. Just because I cannot do it perfectly does not mean I should not attempt it. That is the point here. If we never attempt to delve into our personal unknown we will never know our true potential.
Elsydeon 01-09-08, 05:29 PM	Ahh yes, men are sexist. Women of course aren't. Nor are they racist. Women come with no preconceived notions about anything. I know it's the internet and all, but why did this have to go this way? Men are just as bad as women are just as bad as whites are just as bad as blacks etc etc... Get over it. Everyone's got something. You can't fix them all.
Jarsallen 01-09-08, 06:42 PM	Get over it. Everyone's got something. You can't fix them all. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xbwNSNLPIfw
old_dm 01-09-08, 06:58 PM	I also still cannot fathom how one could say that men cannot play women but men can play Elves, Clerics, Warbades, Psions, etc. I don't think anyone is saying that a dude cant play a chick. Obviously it can be done. I think more what the general consensus is that a dude shouldn't play a chick because it makes the straight people uncomfortable. Out of curiosity, what are your feelings on playing an evil character? Should we not attempt this unless we too have commited an evil act? Ideally, yes. Should I not play a Swashbuckler because I am hardly a swordsman? But if you were I'd wager it would be more convincing, and no one would wonder why you wanted to play one. Just because I cannot do it perfectly does not mean I should not attempt it. I think anyone who wants to play a chick should play a chick. It's a free country and it's all really just a matter of what kind of fantasy you prefer to roleplay. Some people prefer to play the save the day hero type. Some people prefer to play the saved by the save the day hero type. Another way of looking at it is: some guys are straight. some aren't. If we never attempt to delve into our personal unknown we will never know our true potential. I suspect that opinion is widely popular amongst prison inmates serving long sentences.
Elsydeon 01-09-08, 07:09 PM	I love you old dm! I'm not sure if you're joking or not, but I love you either way. Nice video Jar... I'll have to keep that on bookmark.
Ongorth 01-09-08, 07:27 PM	Dude, you're comparing what has been considered mastered (acting) in a fractionally shorter time than the mystery of men and women. Men think and do things alike, same as women do. This is for a number of factors that I cannot even name. A person can act as a member of the opposite gender, but to say that any man could play a woman is to say that women are not complicated; yeah that arguement holds water. We as a society have pegged cultures and out-looks far easier than we have men and women. We know stereotypes for both, but we can only know ourselves. We can be of another culture without a radical physiological change, but to be another gender is practically inconcieveable, unless a person was predetermined to act as such. This is why I suggested not thowing new players into the deep end of RP right away. Right, because (for example) the average white, middle class American male really understands and can portray a male Rwandan refugee better then he could understand and portray a white, middle class American female. You can mention lots of studies about the systematic differences between men and women, but these differences are practically insignificant when compared to the differences between any two random people. Saying that ANYONE can play a woman is not to say that women aren't complicated, but merely that they are as equally complicated as any other person. Its just one other developmental factor that (if you go back to your psychology studies) is rather unimportant compared to other factors for most things. I mean, really, compared to Socio-economic status in predicting most behaviors, gender is barely significant.
Voran 01-10-08, 04:17 AM	I guess I want to clear up one of my earlier posts: Its all well and good to play a <whatever> as long as you don't play it as a stereotype or as something that you KNOW would get you smacked in the lip if you tried it in 'public'. DnD is not a place for one to vent hatred or bigotry or whatever. So as long as you keep that in mind, I figure everything else is fair game.
mplindustries 01-10-08, 04:34 AM	This is getting annoying. There are two points being thrown back and forth: Point 1) Guys shouldn't play girls because thats totally gay. Point 2) Guys should play girls because its not any harder to act female as it is to act like you're from another country/religion/race/profession/etc. To point 1: You are gay. Seriously though, aren't most tranvestites straight? Don't they want to dress like women because they actually like women so much and find them so attractive? Its pretty natural to desire to be attractive/interesting/awesome/etc. and if you think women are all those things, it kind of makes sense to be interested in emulating one. There's actually a lot of evidence to suggest the Mona Lisa was a self portrait. Now, Mona Lisa is a pretty ugly woman, but that would explain why. In other words, maybe you want to play a girl because you find them so fascinating, not because you don't like them at all and would rather do men. And if you're writing a story of some kind which includes a female character that does more than get rescued and married, you wouldn't generally be considered homosexual in the writing community, so I don't know why it'd be the case in the roleplaying world. To point 2: You are also gay. This is probably the most asinine argument in the world. "Oh no! You can totally roleplay a woman because you've met one and are friends with some. Its elves you can't roleplay, because they don't exist." What you are forgetting is that in acting, there are two critical steps to your relative success/failure. Step 1, is obviously performance and delivery. Step 2, though, is reception by the audience. You can sit in your room alone and say a bunch of lies out loud, but it doesn't make you a good liar unless you can say those lies to someone else and have them believe you. Likewise, while you do in fact (probably) know a few women and have a better handle on what they're really like than the the fictional Dwarven Wizard, your audience (fellow players) also know a few women, or maybe even are women, and can easily call your bluff when you are anything less than perfect. Meanwhile, you're likely not playing with real gnomes and paladins at your table, so when you're all at the same level of familiarity with the topic (aka NONE) its pretty easy to do a passable job impersonating them. Oh, and then there's the exact prejudice thats present on this topic among your fellow players as well, so even if you are impeccable roleplaying a woman, and you meet all your friend's expectations for how they should act, you're still faced with the hurdle of people assuming you should be unable to do it. So, again, here's the real answer. Play whatever you feel like. But if you are not physically removed from your character (ie playing online or by mail or whatever), be prepared for a constant stream of missed pronouns from your gaming group and the general feeling of "you suck at being a girl" emanating from the table. Even if creepy people in MMO's routinely propose to you.
old_dm 01-10-08, 06:51 AM	Seriously though, aren't most tranvestites straight? um... no? :looloo: Don't they want to dress like women because they actually like women so much and find them so attractive? Its pretty natural to desire to be attractive/interesting/awesome/etc. and if you think women are all those things, it kind of makes sense to be interested in emulating one. So guys who wear plaid are attracted to lumberjacks? Now, Mona Lisa is a pretty ugly woman Only till the fourth beer In other words, maybe you want to play a girl because you find them so fascinating, not because you don't like them at all and would rather do men. I can't speak for everyone on this, but I suspect that a large part of how most straight gamers explore their "fascination" with women can be explained with one word: porno Another novel approach would be talking to the girlfriend/ old lady/ some random chick in IRC, or any woman anywhere about the intricate and mysterious labyrinth of the female psyche. I suspect that I would reap greater satisfaction from being in the company of a woman, as pertains to any fascination I might have with them, than I would by pretending to be a female myself in the company of all my dude friends. you're likely not playing with real gnomes and paladins at your table If I were, I would be more comfortable with that than with some dude talking about "his" breasts you meet all your friend's expectations for how they should act, you're still faced with the hurdle of people assuming you should be unable to do it. well... I don't assume that. But I do assume that it would be more difficult (if not impossible) for a straight guy.
Zombie_Babies 01-10-08, 09:27 AM	Well this sure turned into a forum for the intolerant... Playing a female (or wanting to) does not mean you are gay. If you think that please just never express a thought ever again. Playing an evil character does not require you to be a felon. It will not result in you going to prison. Again, maybe this is the wrong game for you. The biggest thing to remember is that this is a fantasy game. This means that you are supposed to pretend to be someone other than yourself. You are also encouraged to explore yourself and your limits...which leads to... If we never explore our limits we will never discover anything new. Plenty of breakthroughs in science, medicine, the arts, etc, etc came from people doing just that. Not prisoners, mind you, but geniuses. Nobel Prize winners. People that have improved the quality of life for a great number of people. Do bad people come from this as well? Of course. That's called life. Don't be afraid of it. This thread has also degenerated on another front. By stating that women are so different that no male can play them you are fostering the idea that they are different. We are not (other than biologically, of course). We are all humans. Gender, ethnicity, heritage should be nothing but "flavor". The "crunch" is that we are all human beings and therefore able to understand and respect each other. Equality does not come from pointing out how different we are and then using this as a reason to "help" out the "different" group. Equality comes from treating everyone the same way.
Darth Doom 01-10-08, 10:18 AM	I dont have a problem with males playing female characters - or females playing male characters. Whenever I have seen it done - with the exception of players who are under 18 - its been done tactfully, and though they have not plumbed the depths of the feminine psyche, they have made enjoyable characters to interact with. I myself have played a number of women characters, mainly because - as immature as this may seem - Ive always preferred the aesthetics of a female as a wizard or as an assassin or as a cleric, the classes that I tend to play. Unless Im feeling malicious, then I tend to make them rather logic prone, given the high intelligence my characters generally have (and wisdom), and oddly enough with a distinct dislike for children (Yes I know, going against the Maternal Instinct, but they are wizards/clerics/hitwomen, they have more important things to think about). As far as Im concerned, as long as it is done tastefully, then I dont really have a problem with it. Im not a strict, hardcore role player that will demand a fellow player divulge into the mysterious and weird world of the feminine hive mind, nor encourage male players to attempt to learn that language that all women seem to be able to speak and that only they can understand (For those that cant detect sarcasm through text, yes, that was a light hearted jest :cool:), or anything like that. But really, nothing tickles my underarms more than watching adolescent boys trying to play women, and just making them always big titted, gorgeous, sex craving lesbians, that always attempt to talk their way into places by leaning forward and flashing cleavage. Those type of players make me want to light my cigars with burning puppies.
old_dm 01-10-08, 10:34 AM	Playing a female (or wanting to) does not mean you are gay. That's the beauty of public forums; so many diverse and unique opinions. The biggest thing to remember is that this is a fantasy game. Right. However, I don't feel at all alone when I say that I don't fantasize about being a girl. This thread has also degenerated on another front. I disagree. This is what threads about this topic are always like. It's a very old argument, and I seriously doubt that it will be decisively settled any time soon. It does, however, make for spirited discussion By stating that women are so different that no male can play them you are fostering the idea that they are different. We are not (other than biologically, of course). Yeah I was just remarking to the wife the other day how other than our anatomical differences we are identical. Naturally, she agreed, and stated she had been thinking exactly that.
Dog_O_War 01-10-08, 11:10 AM	You guys are missing the point of what I'm saying (or I maybe I'm just not as clear as I thought I was being). Men can play women, historically this was done, but for a different reason than today. It was done historically because men were sexist. Today it is done for a variety of reasons; laughs (re: Ruby), emulation of modern culture (re: Crossdressers), portrayal of history (re: actors in a movie protraying actors of a long-past century, where the men played the women as well), etc.... Men can play women in a game, and do, regardless of whether or not it makes straight people uncomfortable. The thing here is I said that it was not the greatest, most well thought-out decisions to make three new players portray women right away. Unless the OP pulled these guys from the drama club or the local actor's guild, I said it would not be wise to do so. You'll get men portraying (by default) women in a biased and stereotypical "personality". Why? Because when a person does not know (or is unsure) on how to act, they tend to take a promenent "personality", which unfortunately is the stereotypes. I appologize if this leap in logic was not apparent.
Zombie_Babies 01-10-08, 11:16 AM	Exploring one's limits is not relegated to sexuality only. If you couldn't see how that point was actually about a much broader approach to "exploration" then I cannot help you.
Zombie_Babies 01-10-08, 11:19 AM	@ Dog Ok. I get it now. It just seemed that you were saying that men were too sexist to properly portray women. You also appeared to be sexist in stating so. Since the debate had gone past the OP and to a broader discussion I was under the impression that you were issuing blanket statements. My bad.
old_dm 01-10-08, 11:46 AM	I don't know what anyone expects from this particular topic. Discussion about this is entirely moot to begin with, and aside from that the OP got an answer to his question a long time ago. Is it ok to have his dude players be chicks in the game so he can use his minis? Sure, so long as they want to. asked and answered. These threads are like having a debate about which is better; Coke or Pepsi? You can present whatever arguments you want to support one position or another, but what it comes down to is some people like it one way, some people like it some other way. who cares anyway? I don't know why they don't just lock it up now for everyones good.
Ongorth 01-10-08, 11:53 AM	You are also gay. You like nice in those blue jeans? This is probably the most asinine argument in the world. "Oh no! You can totally roleplay a woman because you've met one and are friends with some. Its elves you can't roleplay, because they don't exist." What you are forgetting is that in acting, there are two critical steps to your relative success/failure. Step 1, is obviously performance and delivery. Step 2, though, is reception by the audience. You can sit in your room alone and say a bunch of lies out loud, but it doesn't make you a good liar unless you can say those lies to someone else and have them believe you. Likewise, while you do in fact (probably) know a few women and have a better handle on what they're really like than the the fictional Dwarven Wizard, your audience (fellow players) also know a few women, or maybe even are women, and can easily call your bluff when you are anything less than perfect. Meanwhile, you're likely not playing with real gnomes and paladins at your table, so when you're all at the same level of familiarity with the topic (aka NONE) its pretty easy to do a passable job impersonating them. Oh, and then there's the exact prejudice thats present on this topic among your fellow players as well, so even if you are impeccable roleplaying a woman, and you meet all your friend's expectations for how they should act, you're still faced with the hurdle of people assuming you should be unable to do it. You must play with people who are intolerant, critical or have really rigid ideas of what makes thing male and female. People I play with tend to give each other the benefit of the doubt regarding these things because it’s a game to have fun, not a performance to critique. Plus, considering the sheer number of factors in development, it’s pretty easy to account for things that seems asynchronous to one of the other 1,000 factors that shape people's personalities. Or maybe the people in my group are such good actors, so removed from what the average roleplayers talent level is don't even realize that any of the problems you mention could possibly exist. However, I'm hesitant to ascribe anything to the fact that I'm good at things, so I'm going to lean towards the first one.
Elsydeon 01-10-08, 12:59 PM	Dog, I get it. You're being sexist about how men are going to be sexist without special drama club training. And making the invalid assumption that a game with a little sexism in it is going to somehow be innately bad. As long as none of them MIND the stereotypes who cares? I'm getting a lot of laughs from this thread. Keep it going!
Dog_O_War 01-10-08, 02:06 PM	Dog, I get it. You're being sexist about how men are going to be sexist without special drama club training. And making the invalid assumption that a game with a little sexism in it is going to somehow be innately bad. As long as none of them MIND the stereotypes who cares? I'm getting a lot of laughs from this thread. Keep it going! Actually, I'm stereotyping new players and how they will act, not claiming that they will be sexist, though that is the most likely case (however unintentional). Also, when is sexism good? back in the 40's? 50's? Ever? When people don't mind stereotypes not about themselves, society breaks down. But you assumed otherwise, right? You're the one guy who knows for sure that stereotyping doesn't promote the problems of the world today. Wish I had that confidence. I could say some really nasty things, about races, sexes, cultures, and religions, all of them stereotypes, just to show you how much people REALLY care. But beyond the fact that I would get banned and cheese off a ton of people, I won't do it because just saying a stereotype promotes it. But what I will do is compliment on how your comments are very similar to the to the response given to the critiques the creator of the game F.A.T.A.L. recieved. This is a game that fits every stereotype right into the game, and in "good humor" as the creator put it.
Elsydeon 01-10-08, 02:25 PM	You did watch the video link posted earlier, right? That's my attitude. I'd say I'm hardly alone. Fighting so hard to be politically correct does more damage to the world than just accepting that people are people and learning not to let insignificant things bother you. So they run a game and one of the guys plays a sexed up chainmail bikini girl... the apocalypse is coming?
Dog_O_War 01-10-08, 02:32 PM	You did watch the video link posted earlier, right? That's my attitude. I'd say I'm hardly alone. Fighting so hard to be politically correct does more damage to the world than just accepting that people are people and learning not to let insignificant things bother you. So they run a game and one of the guys plays a sexed up chainmail bikini girl... the apocalypse is coming? Are you familiar with the sin of sloth? Or the term <<removed>>? I'm not saying that political correctness must win out all the time, but active promotion is an entirely different matter. I'm saying that they should be the ones to choose their fate in this matter, not have it thrust apon them.
Elsydeon 01-10-08, 02:40 PM	Don't get me wrong. I agree, it sucks to have no choice in your own characters. But that's not the issue at hand anymore. Your assumption was that they'd play something mildly sexist. Your second assumption is that it's a bad thing that should be stamped out. Assumption 1 is sexism. You think the first impulse of a random male that might enjoy D&D is, if thrust into the situation of playing a female, to create a sexist stereotype character. Since we don't know what they've done, you're the only one who has proven their sexist nature. Assumption 2 is just wrong. The only wrong way to play the game is to not have fun. If some sexism makes the game more fun who cares? Nobody's getting hurt.
Dog_O_War 01-10-08, 02:44 PM	I didn't throw out a, "this is how the game will be". I put forth a warning as to how it might turn out, especially given how one poster put up a stereotype of women (or a personality there of). We're probably butting heads here for no reason, so I'll let the issue lie.
Zombie_Babies 01-10-08, 03:31 PM	The stereotype in question was just one example of one of the many games where that friend played a female*. It was one example of one of the many possibilities that you can run into. He almost always played very serious and complicated characters (even his male chars). The game was very enjoyable and the character's portrayal, while stereotypical, was not in the least offensive. A little joking does no harm. If a woman wanted to game in the group I am in (and they have) I would have no trouble with her playing a rock-dumb muscle-bound Barbarian who believes the only way to flirt is "caveman style". I also wouldn't care if she played a bookish, scrawny wizard who was almost as afraid of his own shadow as he was of women. Why? She would be stereotyping, yes, but as a joke. *He also played very serious, deadly women. He played stereotypical men as well as serious characterizations of them as well. I feel the need to state this because my one story (which was asked for) has been referred to repeatedly and in a bad light. I want to clarify that neither the player in question nor the gaming group were/are one-dimensional.
Jarsallen 01-10-08, 05:36 PM	Originally Posted by mplindustries Seriously though, aren't most tranvestites straight? um... no? I think most transvestites fancy girls. I was told so by an executive transvestite. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTmgHPOPcn8&feature=related
Ziggaraut 01-10-08, 08:54 PM	The main issue with playing female characters is that all people involved must be mature enough to play it. If you really want to play a female character, but the group lacks maturity, do what I did. Play a female kobold :P
Rogue Elendae 01-10-08, 10:45 PM	And I would like you to note that traditionally the inexperienced and youngest actors played those women because people (men) were (are) sexist. Also, when women were finally allowed to partake in the craft, they quickly mastered and superceeded those men, making them look like ametuers. Speaks volumes of how we portrayed women, and how women actually are. Not to nitpick here, hon...and this really doesn't have to do with where this thread has gone of late...but I'd just like to point out that you're a little inaccurate there. My BF's a Theatre and Acting Major, and knows his theatrical history quite well, and this sort of thing has come up in conversation between us: it was not solely the young/inexperienced actors playing women. Yes, the young men of an acting company were often expected to play the young female lead's role, simply because their voices were still lighter and higher, and they might not have a heavy beard yet. So they'd simply look and sound more feminine. However, roles like Lady Macbeth, Juliet's nurse, and the like were just as likely to be played by older men in the company, heavily made up with layers of powders and paints to disguise things like the scruff of a beard, etc. Also, I'd wonder how inexperienced some of those younger men would be to carry a role like Juliet's...most likely, they'd have been with the company from an early age, and learned the trade like any good apprentice, so they could move smoothly into their place with the company once of an age to do so. Go figure...and now, you're more likely to see women playing young male roles on stage. I mean, look at the stage musical of Peter Pan. Of course, there's just some things you really need a young boy for...like the lead in Oliver. Can't really do that properly without a young boy soprano. Anyway, like I said, this doesn't really have anything to do with the current line of the thread. Just thought I'd point it out, as it's one of those little historical assumptions I find a bit touchy. *shrug*
Dog_O_War 01-11-08, 10:41 AM	I might not have said it, but it is easy to comprehend an older man playing an older woman, or a famous actor playing royalty (the latter here more as a self presevation act). Also, for WizO Chaos (I'm not completely adept with the forums here, so I don't know how to send you a PM) What was so "mature" about snowballed that it had to be removed? A ball of snow starts small, and as it rolls down a hill it builds up mass and momentum. Like little comments, they gather and soon become out of control, becoming bigger and bigger and soon more damaging than any single one would be alone.
Shadowshimmer 01-11-08, 02:56 PM	Some of the best players that I have seen in D & D are the ones that have played the opposite gender and there was never a problem. They played the Drow Female Cleric right and then played the Drow male soldier the way it should be played. I guess depends on the person, character and situation.
Sachiel 01-12-08, 09:54 AM	Eh, myself and my entire gaming group (males and a female) all play both genders often enough. As it's something that we're totally used to, there's never really any questioning looks or awkward moments. Not only that, but we generally play a variety of character types too. I have personally had characters who have run the gamut from chaste paladin with a unicorn to sleazy bard. I once had a female character end up in a relationship with another character. Heck, I've even had characters get others pregnant or become pregnant, depending on their sex. Perhaps my group is a bit more liberal than most, but I would say that there is nothing wrong with cross-gender roleplaying.
Passivearmada 01-12-08, 10:10 AM	I'm quite afraid to play opposite genders in my group, as when I was DMing with them, and I offered a female NPC, they went nuts, and they were all trying to hit on her and be funny and we ended up wasting the entire session. I think my next character will be a gothic-like warlock female, human or half-elf. If they try anything on her, then she'll kill them (at first, but after a while, if she gets to know them, and they're friends, unconsciousness is as far as she'll go).
YamiShinobi 01-13-08, 06:57 PM	In D&D, I play a sexist DM. I have difficulty not only roleplaying women as NPCs but even more so in imagining one as an adventurer. I just can't imagine a female Barbarian, Fighter, Paladin... well almost everything except rogue or sorcerer. I dislike when my (male) friends play female characters in MMOs and I would also if it happened in my D&D games but it has never happened. I am also ashamed to say that I once believed that women in D&D should get stat penalties. As a result, there are very few women in my games! It's stupid but most women are housewives or waitresses. Having said all this, I wish to be cured. why do I have difficulty in roleplaying women NPCs? Why do I think that it is ridiculous for a man to play a female character? Why do I find it hard to believe that a woman could adventure? HELP ME :D if you can't imagine cetain classes for certain genders, here a good way by it men +2 str +2 con, most men were brutes, often favoring strength women +2 wis +2 cha, women, attractive, perceptive, and senstitive if human, give them both a +2 to any stat of thier choice concepts that i see male fighter, paladin, barbarian, dwarves, humans, ogres, half orcs, orcs, catfolk swordsage, crusader, warblade, swashbucklers, dwarven defenders, rogues, bandits, rangers, old vernerable men, weak willed lustful perverted vagabond who delights in beer, women, and slaughter, overweight heavy set wannabe hercules, religious nut female, catfolk, humans, elves, wizard, sorcerer, rogue, some kind of healer, druid, warlock, ninja, shadowdancer, mystic thuerge, bards, arcane tricksters, tieflings, aasimaars, underage characters with strong will, underdeveloped characters, longer lived, fey, eldritch knights, bards (specifically non stripping type dancers with exotic styles) samurai, favored soul, the insane villain with the doll, the apprentice magus, the devout learner, the arcane bookworm/librarian, the larcenous mage that kills librarians to gather books for knowledge, the similar but oppositual twins, i combined the twins with the larcenous librarian slaying knowledge hunters (i used this before, one was a better healer/buffer, the other was a better blaster/enfeebler, though one could come pretty close in the others job, both were multiclass cleric/sorcerer/mystic thuerge,, one had more cleric levels, the other, more sorcerer, and practice spellcaster in thier preferred class, so 8th level spells in one, 9th level in the other by epic, i used spontaneus and spellpoint variants, i stacked thier spellpoint pools individually ) insane villian with the doll (villian in the campaign) the insane person who strokes a doll on a constant basis and is suffering from a twisted sense of trying to save the world, (basically she thinks she can save the world from disease by killing all living ceatures and ressrecing them as undead, or some other means, usually with some nuke artifact, usually cackles and strokes the head of her little dolly, usually she turns out to be possessed from the womb, this is the campaigns villain, i don't play he the dm does, i don't know what race she is, except scion of evil template, cleric of pestillence and lord moon, strokes her little dolly's head like shes a child petting a kitten, for some reason, i keep getting a visual of someone tall and slender, dark haired, pale as the moon, probably dresses in blood red or some other dark mooded color, long straight hair, blue or green eyed, and holds an age worn doll crafted from cloth rags, that looks like a younger cuter version of herself, (she got it when she was 6 or so in the visual and i am guessing appearing the equivelent to 19 in human years, so the doll is more than 10 years old, i have not seen the character, yet, only heard personality quirks, i joined the group on the 3rd to the last campaign week, new campaign in febuary) the visual looks good, better than what i think the dm would desribe,
Divokej 01-13-08, 11:53 PM	Ever since my first experience with a cross gender player I have asked for a name and a backstory. If I get something like, Dark Rose and she was a hooker. . .* I say no. Almost anything else gets my okay. *You think I'm joking, don't you? Nope, Dark Rose, the ex-hooker. She eventually, um, died when she picked a fight with a monk. I never really heard his reasons for that character.
Mirannan 01-14-08, 07:32 AM	I'm probably guilty of over-compensating or maybe stereotyping, but I'm a guy and one of my favourite characters is female, and the character concept demands it - ever heard of a male valkyrie? This character has only been played in 2nd edition so far - 18th level fighter, hard as nails (no stat less than 15 and 18/00 strength) and a grandmaster of the longsword. Also utterly uncompromisingly LG. I did have a male character, played by one of the less mature players in my group, hit on me once. Reaction was something like: "Alright, you have had your one chance. Touch me in that manner again without my permission and it will be the last thing you do in this life. Is that clear?" It never happened again. Not with any of the other PCs that were present, either.
Ongorth 01-14-08, 12:43 PM	Ever since my first experience with a cross gender player I have asked for a name and a backstory. If I get something like, Dark Rose and she was a hooker. . .* I say no. Almost anything else gets my okay. Pssh. I had a character in a game who was a stripper named Sprinkles. The character was a perfectly appropriate spot of light and humor in an otherwise dark game. Sprinkles filled a great dramatic niche, perfectly utilizing the stereotypical role of vunerable female and growing it into an accidental hero that served as the "heart" of the group. Sprinkles was played by a guy. And that game rocked.
_Jayne_Cobb_ 01-14-08, 01:23 PM	I cannot understand people who get bent out of shape over playing characters of the opposite sex. I routinely play characters of different species, skills, professions, religions, and moral outlooks to my own - the fact some of them are packing different tackle is a very minor consideration at best.
_Jayne_Cobb_ 01-14-08, 01:38 PM	Ever since my first experience with a cross gender player I have asked for a name and a backstory. If I get something like, Dark Rose and she was a hooker. . .* I say no. You shouldn't. It is where they take it from that point that matters. I could say "my PC is a drunk" but that doesn't tell you if I'm going Arthur or Leaving Las Vegas with him. Probably my best PC ever started out with "Dark Rose and she was a hooker…" Though her name was Silver Angel (it was a Cyberpunk game, she was a netrunner and a silver angel was her avatar/calling card). Sure "she was a hooker" can sound awfully clichéd - and should raise some serious warning bells - but it is what comes before and after that which matters. In the hands of a good, mature player it can be a gold mine. There was a lot of back story that lead to Silver Angel - real name Meagan Tsukiko Thorne (half Irish, half Japanese) working briefly as a hooker and a lot of back story that followed form it as well. It was not just a throw-away description with no repercussions but rather it was part of a history that informed who she was and who she became. The DM was clever enough to play off of this and we ended up with a lot of really deep RPing in the game - possibly the most I've ever been part of. I've played a lot of PCs over the years, and this was the one who felt most real, most authentically like an actual person, and a lot of that traces directly back to "her name is Silver Angel and she was a hooker…" Man I miss that game!
Cold Napalm 01-14-08, 08:46 PM	if you can't imagine cetain classes for certain genders, here a good way by it men +2 str +2 con, most men were brutes, often favoring strength women +2 wis +2 cha, women, attractive, perceptive, and senstitive if human, give them both a +2 to any stat of thier choice mechanical...BAD. Str and con are worth "more" then wis and cha. Wis and cha is only important to certain casters while str and especially con is useful for everyone. Realism time wise...you do realize then women are generally healtier and more resilent then men right? With higher pain tresholds? So why are you giving men +2 con? Sterotype time...yeah that's just bad. It plays into the women are this role and men are that BS. Biologically, men are stronger and have better hand eye coordination (think str and dex). You can't really deny this. It's just biology. Men have their tendons attached lower on their arm in their shoulder then women so we can generate more force with our arms. Women however are as mentioned have more constitution. They get sick less. They can work through more pain (look at any 7 month pregant women working as a cashier...think if you as a man could handle that much pains and aches...I doubt it). They live longer. So that means the bonus should be more like men +1 str and dex. Women +2 con. Mental wise...developmental aspects impact this so much more then biology that it's not even funny.
Mooncalf 01-14-08, 10:20 PM	I enjoy playing characters of the opposite gender quite often. Not always, but it depends on the character concept. Sometimes it calls for a man, other times a woman. Most of my favorites are among the the females, too. I believe the key lies in not roleplaying 'a woman', but developing a workable, interesting and dynamic personality and roleplaying THAT. Most women you see around you every day are a far cry from the stereotypical female model. It really depends on what her worldview is. One character (a charismatic bard) realized a glib word, a smile and a healthy dose of charisma could open pretty much every door for her, and used that to good effect. She didn't go to bed with anyone or anything like that, she was just very good at making friends and getting people to get along with her. Another (a very powerful psion) didn't really bother much with other people; she relied on her own powers to get things done. The first one flirted, smiled and charmed, the other didn't. I usually avoid a female character if we're having a DM whom I don't know, or new players, but this is mostly because they can get the wrong idea otherwise. First impressions tend to last. I have played with a male player who ALWAYS played female characters... on paper, at least. He'd remember himself every now and then and would do something explicitly female, but most of the time the female character would be oddly sexless. I also have in my campaign a female player playing a male character, though as it's a magical beast it's hard to gauge how well she does it.
BoringInfoGuy 01-15-08, 12:02 AM	Hey. I'm wondering if there are any individuals out there who play characters of a gender that is opposite to their own. I'm wondering this because I'm trying to get some of my friends into D&D and am creating characters they can play with. The thing is, I design characters around the miniatures I own (I love collecting) and several of the best minis I have are female (warlock [witch], fighter [based on the Thayan Knight painting in Complete Warrior], and spiked-chain-welding fighter) and my friends are male. I want to create a good variety of characters, but I can't without a little bit of gender-bending. Could anyone give advice on this topic, please. Thanks. I want to get away from the whole players playing a character of a different gender issue for a moment. New players or not, I suggest against making their characters for them. Making your character is one of the best parts of the game. Why deny them that experience? If you want them to get into the game, then they need to be playing characters that they'll enjoy playing, not one's that you think they'll enjoy playing. I've been gaming for a couple of decades now, and I still consider it a privilege to help new players make their first character. How can I describe it? As the player starts building that character, you can see their excitement building. There's this point where the hesitation and uncertainty over all the new rules fade, and gets replaced with an eagerness to see what their options are. When that first character is completed, you have a character who can't wait for the first game to start. You never get that level of enthusiasm from a new player with a pregen character. If you want to create characters to showcase your mini collection, then save that for your NPC's. While having a mini that perfectly matches your character is nice, it is not vital. I'd rather be using a mini that doesn't quite match my character then play a character that doesn't quite fit me.