Post/Author/DateTime	Post
SpongeGolemSquareBreeches 12-17-06, 06:46 PM	I posted this thread under the title of "Druid with Craft (Armorsmithing)" on the classes & prestige classes board, but I'm not really getting much feedback there. The issue, though, isn't so much about being a druid specifically, but about acknowledging characters as something more than what you can do in game. If a druid character has the skill craft (armorsmithing), do you feel there would be any ethical/spiritual conflict with crafting metal armors? I pose this question from a philosophical standpoint, with only roleplaying in mind. I am in no way trying to suggest that a druid should lose any abilities due to crafting metal armor. For instance, while it's only flavor text, the "characteristics" section of the druid class does state that "druids avoid carrying much worked metal with them because it interferes with the pure and primal nature they attempt to embody." There's nothing in the PHB that prohibits a druid from armorsmithing, or even taking up a career as a blacksmith. That said, am I alone in thinking it against the grain of the class itself for a druid to devote extended amounts of time to working metal?
SpongeGolemSquareBreeches 12-17-06, 06:47 PM	There's more to it than just the quote above, but I'm worried people just aren't understanding the point I'm trying to make here. I'm going to be in a party with a druid with armorsmithing. That's what prompted me to ask the question. He intends to make armor for everyone in the party, starting from level one. That means that characters will upgrade as we progress in levels, some perhaps even into full plate. That's more than likely metal full plate, not ironwood or dragon hide. In my opinion, this all happened due to a poorly thought out character concept. No consideration whatsoever was given to a druid's perspective on working that much metal. The player simply saw that druids couldn't wear metal armor, and decided, "ok, it doesn't say I can't make it." When I asked the player and the rest of the party if they thought the druid might have any spiritual/ethical issue with making metal armors for the entire party, the only response I was met with was "they only lose their spells if they wear metal armor." I was in disbelief as I realized that my question had sparked the first consideration (and immediate dismissal) of the RP influences upon a druid crafting metal armor for the party. I can't help but think that people are only going to read this as me thinking that there is a rule that the character might be violating. It's not that at all. It's the fact that the player didn't give it a second thought once he saw no rule stating that they couldn't do it. The player is shooting for Beastmaster and chose druid due to the animal companion. If I were playing the character and realized I'd want to craft armor for everyone, I would at least consider the RP implications of working that much metal. And more than likely, I would switch over to ranger and take Natural Bond as soon as I could. See, to me, this is a role playing game, and the characters are more than just a pile of class abilities. If a player chooses a class with built-in beliefs and world views, more consideration needs to be given to the character than merely what is affected by rules. And at this moment in time, I am a little peeved that there could be other gamers who seem to think that little RP consideration needs to be given beyond what game mechanics will influence. Does anyone understand what I'm saying? This is not so much a large issue in itself, so much as I fear that it is indicative of what I may have to look forward to during the course of the game. The greater issue at hand is players actually thinking of their characters as characters - with some semblance of depth, however small - and not merely as an assortment of abilities. Thoughts? Opinions?
Reversefigure4 12-17-06, 07:12 PM	On the contrary, I think it leads to interesting RPing. Druids can't wear metal armour, but they have nothing against it. There's nothing anywhere in the given rules or any of the fluff suggesting the Druid would have a problem with, say, his friend Fighter wearing Full Plate. While actually choosing to craft armour himself is an odd choice for a Druid, there really shouldn't be any restriction - either ruleswise or RP wise - against it. There's any number of interesting things you could do with a Druid who crafts armour: - He, like any good craftsmen, takes pride in his work. If his fellow party members are going to wear armour anyway, it might as well be the best, forged with the blessings of nature. - He is jealous that his own connection with nature is impeded by wearing metal, and he builds armour because it's the closest thing he can get to wearing it. - He loves to create, but lacks the skill at more 'druid-y' crafts like woodcarving. His natural abilities draw him to armoursmithing. Those are just off the top of my head, and pretty crap, but it suggests that you can roleplay a quite interesting druid who's an armoursmith. It's like having a Barbarian with ranks in Knowledge: Nobility and Royalty. The general fluff of the class suggests it shouldn't be, but it's designed to have exceptions. Without exceptions, we steer back to stereotypes (all barbarians must be uneducated "Hulk Smash" brutes, all druids must wuv dancing in meadows, etc).
rjjr71 12-17-06, 11:42 PM	Love that thinking, actually. I don't go out of my way to create characters that are *so* against the grain (a wizard character that loved to engage in armed combat probably wouldn't have chosen that class in the first place). Metal is a gift of the earth; it protects. Druids worship nature and (usually) work to preserve it, yes...but that doesn't mean they want it pristine or untouched. It's perfectly legit to have a druid who sees nature as a bountiful, giving force that is glad to have its raw materials (metal, wind, water, etc) worked into various forms (armor, spells, sculptures, fountains). Maybe the druid thinks nature is flattered by it all.
eclpmb 12-17-06, 11:56 PM	Metal is a gift of the earth; it protects. I think it's a key point - The druid would (should) make sure that the mining is done right and not harshly to the earth.
Tempest Stormwind 12-18-06, 12:20 AM	"Here, my child. Take this shirt of mail, and let it protect you on your journeys with me. ...What's that? Yes, child, I am a shaman of Gaea. I was not *born* a druid, though. I was the son of a tinsmith in a village far from here. I took up the mantle of the druid during my adolescence at the insistence of a nearby grove elder. It was the right choice, I feel -- I would not want to live any other way. Although my vows to Gaea forbid me from wearing metal armor, no such oath prevents me from making it. After all, though I am shielded by the might of Gaea and have no need for such steel skin, my allies are not, and they are my allies by choice -- they assist me in my defense of the wilds as often as I assist them in their own duties and desires. It's in my best interest, and theirs, if they are protected -- and is not metal the hardiest of the land's base materials? I see it like the wolf pack, with the alpha sparring with his underlings, and the pups observing their battles... like the alpha, I have a responsibility to my allies, and the survival of the whole depends on each part being as tough and well-prepared as possible. The wolf does it by sparring, and I do it by building armor as my father taught me. We all use the talents we are given by Gaea. Is that so very odd? No? Good. Now try it on, child; I don't want you complaining it chafes further down the road, for when we leave this town, these tools stay behind." That's just one way to look at it. (I'd see the idea of a metalsmithing druid is sufficiently nontraditional to warrant a nontraditional background, no?)
Salla 12-18-06, 01:16 AM	I can't see any reason why a druid can't craft metal armors. Of course, I can't see any reason why a druid can't WEAR metal armor, either. You get metal out of the earth. IT'S NATURAL MATERIALS, DARN IT! Yeah, I know, sacred cows and all that carp. :)
jeffepp 12-18-06, 01:32 AM	Druids have the spell "Heat Metal". I can see a druid using this spell (or a variant) to heat up his work. This way he is not burning any coal or wood to forge his armor. He can be a champion of "environmentally friendly" methods, trying to teach and convert smiths over to his way of doing things.
Agile_thieve 12-18-06, 02:18 AM	But Don't druids not wear metal armour for ethical reasons? I always thought they disliked the fact the worked metal is not a natural thing and is not what nature wanted.
KurenaiYami 12-18-06, 04:32 AM	But Don't druids not wear metal armour for ethical reasons? I always thought they disliked the fact the worked metal is not a natural thing and is not what nature wanted. But skinning animals and wearing their hide is exactly what nature wanted?
Gilean 12-18-06, 09:15 AM	I think the OP's problem is not so much the druid crafting the armour. I think the problem is that the player doesn't even think about the reasons for teh druid being an armoursmith. That's perfectly fine with me, in some games. Hack and slash is totally valid style of play, as is character optimisation. If you have a trouble with someone's style, talk to the person. There are few other reliable ways of sneaking playing styles on people.