Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Tarkwin 10-10-06, 02:57 PM	I need some idea's on how best to play this guy( Thorn Turnskull lvl7 half-ork monk{more so a brawler}), so far i was thinking that as a half-orc child in an ork camp he was never aloud to speak since he is a bit of a freak and his family was shamed and that he would have be picked on alot(hence unarmed combat). he was found by a group(the rest of the party) who saved him and has since been traveling with them and starting to speak albeit not well. my problem is(and im always up for a chalange), im usualy the face/team leader no mater what my class and as the most experianced player at the table (20 years) they look to me to come up with plans alot(not always). we only played for 4 hours or so last session and i was going nuts trying to figure out how to play this guy and what i can and cant say? the DM has said that if i keep it down to 2-3 words its not gona require much, but if i start trying to convince people of a plan (he is smart and very wise) that no one's charecters will believe him and even if it is the best choice he will not let it be used by them. any input would be apreciated an Ty in advance
trapspringer 10-10-06, 03:09 PM	Your starting charisma can't fall below three.
LCD2YOU 10-10-06, 03:13 PM	With a Charisma that low, you can be holding the deed to the world and people will not believe you. It is a major drawback of such a low charisma. No matter what, you come off with the grace and believibility of a perverted, disgusting, Congressional page boy chasing, used car salesman with halitosis.
Phaje 10-10-06, 03:15 PM	:eek: Umm, with a Charisma of 2 your character would be not only hideous and unapproachable, but also rude and insulting without even knowing about it. Your charisma doesn't mean you can't speak or won't speak, it would mean that every time you do speak not only is the most inappropriate thing coming out of your mouth, but also the image of rotten teeth would be added to your already foul appearance. See page 9 of the PHB for an explanation of what a Cha of 2 means.:nonono:
KirkBb 10-10-06, 03:20 PM	Just make him sound like an ******* most of the time, try not to make it a bigdeal though, backdown when you have to (charisma can also be measured as the force of will you posses) You can state whatever plans you want if your int and wis are as high as you say they are, just be sure to be a jerk about it, even if a great plan was thought up by a jerk, it doesn't make it any less of a great plan. If your DM insists that no one can listen to what you say because of your charisma, then just simply pull out the reverse psychology on him, and just tell everybody to do the opposite of what you want him too.
Einvaldurinn_mikli 10-10-06, 03:29 PM	I think you would be kinda like a robot or something. That is smart but have no sense of self. You would probably not say something of your own intiative and would alway follow the lead of other. Contrary to popular belief, low charisma does not mean uncouth and rude, it means no self confidence and mindlessly following others.
DarkNick 10-10-06, 03:34 PM	Oh tough challenge. I think it probably should not be about how much you can and can't say, but more about how he says it. Hey, how about play him as if having a real bad case of torrettes? syndrome -he says inapropriate things at seemingly random times and his hands go off and do 'things' on their own. Like that chick from Duece Bigalo. Maybe he acts like he is possesed and switches between rational and homicidal (in voice anyway, not deed) "I would like to buy this sword [switch] so I can ram it in your gullet, you will burn in in the nine hells and your progeny cursed to an eternity of squirming as worms in a pool of acid [switch], is that 15gp? You could play him as overly cheerful, completely arrogant, abusive. Maybe he constantly comments on peoples attributes "hi king you have a huge c..." (grab). He tends to keep quiet as it gets him in trouble, but he just can't help himself. Maybe he is mad and talks to voices. "I'm not talking to you, I'm talking to the voice in your head - hello, why won't you answer me!"
Righter8 10-10-06, 03:55 PM	Your starting charisma can't fall below three.Regardless of racial modifiers. I thought this was worth repeating...
Whisper_Swiftblade 10-10-06, 04:19 PM	he can't exist, things tend to look like their parents so for this thing to exist two things with 2 cha would have had to reperduce, which would be almost impossible because in order for that to happen they would need to stand to be in one another's company for a perioud of time, which would take a will save even a high lv monk would be jellous of.
Titan W 10-10-06, 05:06 PM	Charisma != Appearance all the time, he has a very low force of personality, insanely low, think about it like a hermit of sorts, he shys away from the large groups becuse he's not confident, noone thinks much of him because he's not confident, he might be a super genius but some people would think him retarded because of the fact that when he expresses himself he's a total puch-over. The person who has a changing speech pattern of peaceful and KILL would actualy have a moderately high Charisma because he's definately going to leave a lasting impression, definately intimidate ranks, not well liked , but he can get what he needs from people. At the same time with people who think well of him and who he genuinely knows think well of him, he might open up and talk with them more, as long as they begin the conversations. In fact in many ways this is like an autistic person.
epifreak 10-10-06, 05:10 PM	To be fair, we must remember that the excessively rude and *******ish demons are in posession of cha scores shot through the roof. A low charisma doesn't just mean that you're a jerk; it means that you are unremarkable. With a score like that, no-one really even remembers that you exist. You are always just another faceless member of the crowd. You might have the best plan in the world, but people have to pay attention to you to receive that plan.
Magus Gar Kan 10-10-06, 05:18 PM	Personally I see him as extremely apathetic, as a cha of 0 means he is an object.
allenchan 10-10-06, 05:22 PM	"so, we attack the red dragon with fireballs. Good idea." "I dont know about this.. hey, isnt Thorn pretty smart? We should ask him?" "Thorn? Oh yea! I always forget he's travelling with us... wait... where is he?" "I think I saw him earlier, I'm not sure." "Did we leave him at the temple again?" "No, I think he was sitting over in the corner earlier." "Huh, I dont see him." "Oh well! Shall we go fight the dragon now?" "Okay!" "Hey guys? Its me, Thorn. I've been sitting right here the whole time, not that anybody cares about poor ol' me."
Reversefigure4 10-10-06, 05:36 PM	For starters, you totally lack presence. You understand the intellectual concepts behinds social skills like inspiring speeches and wooing women, but you really lack the capacity to do it. The words just seem to come out flat, no matter how much time you spend thinking about it. You will never be a leader, and you know it. That's damaged your confidence. You are quite capable of coming up with brilliant plans, but you don't believe they're brilliant. Thus, you are easily cowed - if someone else suggests a different plan, it must be better than yours. Around strangers, you're screwed. Nobody will ever open up to you, waitresses always seem to look past you, and you always feel awkward. (This should all be quite playable with the horrid -4 to CHA checks). Nobody really remembers you. In epic tales of your party's adventures, people will gush about Regdar the Bold, Kaleb the Mighty, Tamar who slew the dragon... and one line in the poem will mention some half-orc who carried their gear. That said, your party can listen to you... in time. Your plans will lack conviction "Maybe we can sneak around behind them... nah, they'd hear me, bad idea, sorry, sorry." Over time they might realise what you say makes sense and listen to you, but you'll never be the leader. At best, you'll apologetically offer a good plan when, and only when, somebody else asks you about it.
LCD2YOU 10-10-06, 09:23 PM	It's far more than just his plans lacks conviction. With a Charisma of 6 or less, all I can see the character beinging is "mousy". They have no self-esteem. Even if they have a good idea, they will most likely never say anything to a group at anytime as they feel their ideas are without merit. A Charisma of 4 or less means the character is easily cowed into submission. The meek guy who stands up to say something only to be glared at by the rest of the people in the room and then sits down quickly, apologizing as they retake their seat. They will do things in packs that have a strong leader though that they would never think about alone. Not one of those things though involve taking the initiative nor staking a stand against their leader. One way they could be effective is being behind a real mask. So your character with a 2 Charisma, if that is possible, would have almost no feeling of self worth and would never want to bother another person with their nonsense. In other words, they'd sit their and say nothing.
PsychicKid 10-10-06, 09:28 PM	Your starting charisma can't fall below three. Yes, it can.
angryman 10-10-06, 09:49 PM	We had a Dwarf in our party with a CHA of 4 who was trying to push his weight around, so in my best condescending voice I patted him on the head and said with a smile, "Why don't you go over there and sit in the corner while the big people are talking?" When he got angry (he was a Dwarven warrior), I just turned my back on him. I *never* listened to him because he was so unlikeable. Charisma 2? My character would have thrown some guano at him and told him to get the hell away.
Generic Poster 10-11-06, 12:49 AM	charisma 2(or charisma 3), that would have to be some sort of autism. Maybe watching Rain Man would give you an idea how such a character would act.
trapspringer 10-11-06, 01:20 AM	Yes, it can. No, it can't.
Napoleon_the_Clown 10-11-06, 01:24 AM	Yes, it can. He's right. Only int can't be lower. Page 172 of the DMG says it. Though the DM must be either very confident in Tarkwin's rollplaying abilities or was very wasted when he gave the greenlight on the character. Whenever you do speak up, there is no such thing as tact. If you think someone could improve in X area, you'd say that they suck at X.
Neutronium_Dragon 10-11-06, 06:51 AM	Someone with very low Cha isn't necessarily ugly, rude, or the like. They just have all of the personal magnetism of a lump of stone. (Well, okay, they're slightly better than the lump of stone, but not by much.) They might look great and know just the right thing to say, but they're so flat and lacking in personality that they hardly make any impression on the person they're talking to.
Kraleck 10-11-06, 07:12 AM	A Charisma of 4 or less means the character is easily cowed into submission. The meek guy who stands up to say something only to be glared at by the rest of the people in the room and then sits down quickly, apologizing as they retake their seat. They will do things in packs that have a strong leader though that they would never think about alone. Not one of those things though involve taking the initiative nor staking a stand against their leader. One way they could be effective is being behind a real mask. I'd play him as LCD2YOU said here about Cha 4 with half-orc's natural ugliness included. He will act as Cha 4, but his looks generally put off people and cause them to ignore him as if he were Cha 2. Ugliness seems to mostly generate Negative Racial Charisma Modifiers, whereas likeability and good looks often (if not always) generate Positive Racial Charisma Modifiers.
PsychicKid 10-11-06, 08:07 AM	No, it can't. Only INT cannot dip below 3. Orcs and Half-Orcs have a CHA adjustment of -2. Rolling 4d6, get a total of 3 or 4, and boom, you have your 1 or 2 CHA. INT is the only stat that cannot get below 3, because 3 is the requirement for being barely sentient.
Gwenfloor 10-11-06, 08:43 AM	Someone with very low Cha isn't necessarily ugly, rude, or the like. They just have all of the personal magnetism of a lump of stone. (Well, okay, they're slightly better than the lump of stone, but not by much.) They might look great and know just the right thing to say, but they're so flat and lacking in personality that they hardly make any impression on the person they're talking to. Like so many celebrities and super-models who are idolized for their bodies but never say anything worthwhile?
Tarkwin 10-11-06, 09:42 AM	I would like to thank everyone for there ideas and look forward to trying to give this guy a shot :D as far as it goes it should be a blast I never play half-orcs or monks and its been a long time since i have rolled a stat bellow 10(this DM loves 5d6 drop 2) so the DM and I are both interested in seeing were this goes from here. thanks again for all the good advice. T
Sulaco 10-11-06, 01:19 PM	He is a complete a-hole, he's probably going to get screwed on prices when buying and selling, and pretty much everything he says or does is going to be taken as "fightin' words" by most folks. Or you could play it as an incredibly vile, arrogant and self-centred piece of semi-human. Think Paris Hilton, though with a slight bonus to CHA.
Illithid_Tentacles 10-11-06, 03:02 PM	Almost total lack of personality, very little conviction or self-confidence, definitely not the kind who likes to take charge, though he might if he's asked to. Charisma is kind of like the polar opposite of Wisdom- instead of being insightful about other people or your surroundings, a Charismatic character is the kind who is confident, self-assured, confident in his abilities, and fairly well aware of what he's capable of (note that this doesn't preclude him from exaggerating his abilities anyway, he's just more acutely aware of it when he does it). To paraphrase Dak'kon, Charisma represents how well you know yourself.
polt 10-11-06, 03:14 PM	Charisma of 2? The only words you know are when you are calling other people names, and then you can only make weird gurgling noices like "OIAHGOIHhg". You can't interact proberly with anyone, you have no empathy, you have no idea how to be with other people. Also, your breath stinks.
allenchan 10-11-06, 06:36 PM	Charisma of 2? The only words you know are when you are calling other people names, and then you can only make weird gurgling noices like "OIAHGOIHhg". You can't interact proberly with anyone, you have no empathy, you have no idea how to be with other people. Also, your breath stinks. Language skills are basedly solely on Int.
zvbxrpl 10-13-06, 07:01 PM	He would probably be very, very severely autistic. Withdrawn into himself, barely interacts at all.
573v3 10-13-06, 07:35 PM	I actually think the supermodel/paris hilton comparisons are weak. Paris hilton has high Cha based on her looks, but maybe her lack of personality puts it down to a reasonable number. Id say our half-orc here is hidious beyond approach, children wont go near you/you make people throw up, in addition to your inability to make regular social conduct. The Autism is an interesting idea, but thats a specific condition of the brain. Id say you just get 0 respect from everyone, almost no matter what. You should be able to speak fine, its just so meaningless to everyone else that your largely ignored. Also, social skills should generate opposite effects then desired. "Can I uh, buy that sword, for maybe, uh, less" "Sure it cost only 550 gp, and Ill even throw in a sling."
Chrono Nexus 10-13-06, 08:07 PM	For a cha of 2.. People should just draw their weapons and attack you on sight. It's an honest mistake that they would think you are an undead.
Callista 10-13-06, 08:42 PM	I suggest making your character severely autistic. Charisma is basically "people skills"; and autism has a lot to do with not understanding or relating to other people. That means not knowing how to say things politely, not knowing it's not OK to point out that someone is fat or old. Main interaction with people would be either hitting them if they're annoying you, or else talking at them about something you're interested in--though you may simply talk to yourself about the same subject, and be just as contented. Absolutely no give-and-take in the conversation. Seldom would you respond to questions, work cooperatively, or understand another's emotional state (this doesn't mean you don't have emotions or empathy; you just don't catch on when others are distressed or happy or whatever). However, since you mentioned you have good INT and WIS, the character would not also have mental retardation. He will be able to use language, though he could get caught up in repeating phrases or nonsense syllables; and much of his language will not be used for traditional communication--he will tend to either complete silence or pedantic lecturing. He can notice things around him and point them out; he can make plans and convey them (though he may do so to empty air, or in a way that isn't understandable to others). He may be obsessed with a certain topic--max out a Knowledge skill and have him talking about it all the time. He could be very, very good at art, music, mathematics, languages, etc. (savant skills, sometimes associated with autism). Other things to do would be having set, inflexible routines to follow; or being very sensitive or completely oblivious to certain sensory input (sound, taste, touch, etc.). If you go this route, do be sure to play your character as an actual, three-dimensional person rather than a caricature; just in case a fellow player has a friend or relative with autism, or has autism him/herself, you want to make sure not to offend anyone. Do a bit of research before you play the character.
Thubby 10-13-06, 09:56 PM	write things down, script dont got cha. your guy has ideas, brilliant ones, but cant express them well. think greatest music writer in existance, who cant play the instrument. with that kind of stat, you are alot like the creapy "kings advisor" type, no one listens to you, but when someone finaly does, what you have to say will be spectacularly brilliant. take that role in the party, advise on how to act, just let someone else say it. with high int/wis, you would realize that when you speak, things come out wrong, so you learn to not talk much
Tarvok 10-13-06, 10:37 PM	One thing a very low CHA character could be is the guy who talks entirely too much, about things nobody cares about... and really doesn't understand that fact. He could be the guy who, in sensitive situations, manages (quite unintentionally) to say the exact wrong thing. He could be ultra-useful to the party in certain situations... he's just so embarrasing! It's not that people don't notice him. It's that they're desperately trying to pretend they didn't,
Gwenfloor 10-13-06, 11:10 PM	I actually think the supermodel/paris hilton comparisons are weak. Paris hilton has high Cha based on her looks, but maybe her lack of personality puts it down to a reasonable number. Id say our half-orc here is hidious beyond approach, children wont go near you/you make people throw up, in addition to your inability to make regular social conduct. The Autism is an interesting idea, but thats a specific condition of the brain. Id say you just get 0 respect from everyone, almost no matter what. You should be able to speak fine, its just so meaningless to everyone else that your largely ignored. Also, social skills should generate opposite effects then desired. "Can I uh, buy that sword, for maybe, uh, less" "Sure it cost only 550 gp, and Ill even throw in a sling." Physical appearance does not affect leadership quality, which is the dictionary definition of Charisma. It is based off of presence and influence. A Charisma of 2 will get you totally unnoticed, plus nobody will pay attention to you, even if your life depended on it. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/Charisma
TheMeanOne 10-13-06, 11:23 PM	with high int/wis, you would realize that when you speak, things come out wrong, so you learn to not talk much I think that's key, your Int means you are probably a good stratagist and know a lot about many different things. And you Wis means you have common sense, willpower and most likely a fair bit of compassion. You just can't seem to express these things to others. There are a lot of convincing ways to portray that. If it was me I'd probably play him as non-descript and silent. Knowing he can't communicate well with others he would be reserved. He might be slightly depressed, knowing some of his skills are going to waste but being unable to do anything about it.
Melpomene 10-13-06, 11:40 PM	Charisma also has to do with force of personality and self-awareness. You'd have roughly the self-awareness of a (slightly surly) sponge. "Do you want some coffee Mr. Tully?" "Do I?" "Yes, have some." "Yes, have some."
Andrew_980 10-14-06, 01:46 PM	Charisma is horrably written. It is appearance, yet illithids have loads. It is people skills, yet several undead that just kill on sight have it in spades. It is self esteem and awrness of self, but somehow the average wolverine has more self esteem and awarness than the average human? It is a terribly written dump of undefined characteristics.
Thubby 10-14-06, 02:18 PM	Charisma is horrably written. It is appearance, yet illithids have loads. It is people skills, yet several undead that just kill on sight have it in spades. It is self esteem and awrness of self, but somehow the average wolverine has more self esteem and awarness than the average human? It is a terribly written dump of undefined characteristics. charisma is being portayed how you want to be. an undead wants to be scarey, he is. illithids looks bad, to you, for all you know, he might be considered supermodel by the she-illithids. also, charisam isnt beauty(necesarily), i think they look cool, some see them as scarey .as to self esteem, have you EVER met an animal embarassed about how it looks? i meet plenty of people who are.
Tetsubo 10-15-06, 03:34 PM	He would probably be very, very severely autistic. Withdrawn into himself, barely interacts at all. This is how I would play him. A virtual "blank". No interaction with others of any kind unless ordered to interact. Think of him as a robot. When not doing anuthing he would just sit. Or repeat the same action again and again and again...
Nessaj 10-15-06, 03:41 PM	...Ask your DM if you can wear a bag over your head you can remove to force a Will Save or take Charisma Drain. Cuz that's pretty terrible. ...I have nothing to add that hasn't been said, I just thought that would be amusing, if rather unplayable. You'd never get into an inn, let alone a town. Think Frankenstein's Monster. That's a Charisma of 2. Player to DM: "I greet the townsfolk." DM: "GRAAAAAARRR!!" People freak out...You hear the sounds of boots on stone and smell boiling oil. I'm giving that to you since you're probably used to it by now. On the plus side, you will gain 1d4 temp Charisma from the bath if you fail your save due to your obscured hideousness. Roll initiative.
ArcTan 10-15-06, 07:52 PM	Your starting charisma can't fall below three. Racial stat mods.
ArcTan 10-15-06, 07:54 PM	One thing a very low CHA character could be is the guy who talks entirely too much, about things nobody cares about... and really doesn't understand that fact. He could be the guy who, in sensitive situations, manages (quite unintentionally) to say the exact wrong thing. He could be ultra-useful to the party in certain situations... he's just so embarrasing! It's not that people don't notice him. It's that they're desperately trying to pretend they didn't, Sure, but a Cha of 2 can't be represented by someone quite as ordinary as that. It is a pretty superhuman -- or, in this case, subhuman -- stat. Just as someone with Int 24 should be someone who's a whole lot smarter than the smartest guy you know, someone with Cha 2 is far less personable than the least personable guy you know. He's only slightly more personable than a robot or inanimate object would be.
ArcTan 10-15-06, 07:55 PM	It is self esteem and awrness of self, but somehow the average wolverine has more self esteem and awarness than the average human? It is a terribly written dump of undefined characteristics. I don't have a problem with this idea at all, actually. Self-esteem and self-awareness and force of personality are all things I can imagine the average monster or average animal having more of than the average human. After all, isn't it a stock feature of Romantic literature that our intelligence, our learning and our civilized ways have depressed our wild animal spirits and our individuality and the lust for life that is our birthright as living things, replacing it with the murky gray world of words, and definitions, and consciousness?
FatGuy 10-15-06, 10:08 PM	You'll be a two-bagger.
Draco Strang 10-15-06, 10:21 PM	Beg your DM to bump your Cha. to 6-ish. At that level, you'll just be boorish, boring, and probably very withdrawn unless something sparks your interest hardcore. In all honesty, I don't let my players run Int, Wis, or Cha. under 6 for the simple fact that it usually impedes gameplay. Anyone with a little imagination can play a sub-standard personality stat. But a near-nonexistent one? Fuggetabouddit.
Sulaco 10-16-06, 10:25 AM	Paris hilton has high Cha based on her looks... No, she really doesn't. She is ugly both physically and in terms of persona. I honestly cannot see how anyone thinks she is physically attractive. She looks like a dead dog's ass.
LCD2YOU 10-16-06, 12:45 PM	To answer Sulaco's query = $$$$$ = Charisma A person with a 2 Charisma has no personality to speak of. I dislike the Autism idea as I don't think that is what Autism is. As for what he's like, he like nothing! He's most likely ugly and has absolutely no self esteem. But it is not just the ugliness part. Most Demons and many devils have high Charisma but are incredibly ugly. It is the force of their persona that makes them Charismatic. With a Charisma of 2, I'd say the character is barely aware they exist at all. So, what is a 2 Charisma person like? Down to a 6 Charisma, I can see a person just being ugly, uncooth and boorish to get them there to a low stat. I know of people who are pretty and good looking but save for someone trying to get frisky with them, most people want nothing to do with them. That's a low Charisma. Your "trophy" wife or "blonde, buff but clueless" beach bum boy toy fall in this catagory. So, and this is my opinion, Charisma represents a person's social skills as much as their looks and SELF-WORTH. If you were to have 1-20 for "each sub-Charisma" stat, add them up and then divide by three (must have no remainders) you'd have your Charisma. So if a person has 1 for both looks and social skills, they'd have a max of 4 for self worth. Ergo, they have none and they would have a hard time defending themselves, even if attacked as they have NO feeling that they deserve to live at all. In truth, a person below a Charisma of 4 is, IMO, unplayable. Even then a person with a 4 Charisma can have 1 in each of the social and looks stat and have a score of 10, not a Bo Derek "10", in self-worth. This is average, albeit a low average, but average enough that as long as they don't show their face or speak, they'll be ok. For the OP's question, I'd let them play such a creature but they can't take any initiative as to "role-play" such an individual means they need to accept that this PC has nothing to offer. Which is why you can have a Paladin with 20 in each Social and Self-Worth and "just" a 14 in looks. Yeah, they're nice looking, but their personality is what stands out. That's how such people can be not so good looking but incredibly charismatic.
LCD2YOU 10-16-06, 01:30 PM	Of course, I could also argue that Wisdom is the stat that measures self worth. It is up to the DM, with player input if the players are reasonable, to decide if Charisma is just a looks/social viability stat or if it is a looks/social/force of personality. As it is written, I'd say it is the latter, not the former.
Tarkwin 10-16-06, 04:37 PM	thanks again for all the advice :) we had a 12 hour session this weekend and i have to admit it is kinda fun playing this guy. and both my DM and I seem to think it works as we both see the self esteem thing as more asociated to wisdom (Will Save), no one wants to talk to him and he pulls agro from everyone and every thing (thankfully he is fast). he tends to vanish alot and pop up were he is least expected or wanted and the only time he even tried to use a social skill it was his intimidate wich was maxed out and he still failed. i maxed out his hide and move silent and he knows everyone hates him so most of the time he is in the shadows watching and waiting to pounce if his "friends" get in trouble. Frankenstein's Monster is pretty much what we went with but made him more agressive, and the groups paly is gona buy a leash soon since we left off ariving at a city and when he goes off alone bad things happen. overall if anything its got me trying somthing i would have never considered before for anything but a encounter in my campaign. thanks again, T
Archeon of_Endtimes 10-16-06, 08:48 PM	The way I sees it, a mute Warforged could have higher charisma. That's fine. A lot of people talk about characters with 2 CHA, but whenever I have an extremely high/low score, I always think "Now, why does this particular character have such stats?" A wizard with these stats might call for being an Autist, but your case is different. I think that the abused half-orc and monk angles are perfect for playing off 2 CHA. You don't have to be unsightly (although, as a half-orc raised by orcs, you're probably no looker) or rude or instantly enrage people with your presence. You were raised not to talk, and after learning the self-disiciplinary ways of the monk, you decided to turn your tortured past into a test of your future. Some monks take the vow of silence. But that's not good enough for you. Oh no... You've taken a vow of non-communication. No words, no eye contact, no hand gestures. You are a silent pillar, observing the world around you, but while being fully reserved to yourself. Completely non-social, as a 2 CHA suggests, but not arbitrarily repugnant. It still works mechanically, as people aren't used to such total social reclusion. It'll freak people out, but not because you're freakish, but because it's just plain weird. People don't like having their questions go ignored and are suspicious of people that seem to look right through them. Of course, if you've already spoken in the session you played, you could always say that you're starting a new vow as of this day so as not to disturb the affairs of the party - as you said, you're entering a city. That way you don't have to be treated as a detestible freak for no apparent reason, but there can still be interesting, even dangerous, ramifications for such a low CHA.
angryman 10-16-06, 11:33 PM	A rant about Paris Hilton To reiterate- Paris Hilton does not have high charisma. She is perceived to be beautiful (I personally think she looks like an assembly-line blonde, so...generic), however she's a) *****y, b) vacuous (these are seperate) and c) a spoilt little rich girl. Why is she even famous? Cause her dad is a filthy rich hotel owner? Now she's singing ("there aren't any filler songs" according to her) and by god, isnt' she one of the most unnecessarily famous finger puppets I've ever seen. Again I ask, WHY IS SHE FAMOUS? Probably because a whole bunch of sad internet fan boys want to see her naked and hit her sites by the thousands. Eww.
KurenaiYami 10-16-06, 11:57 PM	No, she really doesn't. She is ugly both physically and in terms of persona. I honestly cannot see how anyone thinks she is physically attractive. She looks like a dead dog's ass. QFT. Anyways, I will back up those who said this person has brilliant ideas but has trouble expressing it. This reminds me of what my Uncle is going through right now after his stroke. He's very aware that he can't say certain words when he wants to, and gets very frustrated when he has to spend a minute trying to say one word. Edit: Also, about the charisma being looks thing: I think being attractive just gives you a bonus with charisma, looks are not derived from charisma. You have a certain sense of presence for being attractive. Beholders, Dragons, Demons, etc. don't need that boost from being attractive. Keep in mind, I derive this from absolutely nothing, it just makes sense to me.
strenoth 10-17-06, 12:01 AM	you are the sub of the pack, lowest of the totem pole. or at least, that's how you tend to think of yourself.
dragonfire8974 10-17-06, 03:38 AM	i like the idea of people throwing up when they see your character... in fact, i'm going to have someone like that. i dm, so i'm going to have someone so ugly the players feel like throwing up (roll fort save to avoid, opposed by charisma check where low makes the DC higher). it will be great!!!
Draco Strang 10-17-06, 03:48 AM	Alright, I have to say that I'm offended on behalf of Paris, and I've personally linked this thread to her assistant's BlackBerry*. Don't blame me when she puts in a personal appearance here, and defends her title as pop/media queen/diva once and for all. *yes, I know I'm going to hell. No, I don't like Paris, and no, I didn't link this to her assistant.
chucky 10-17-06, 08:37 AM	The best way to deal with it is to look up what happens to you when you hit zero cha. Your char with a cha of 2 is 1 twitch of any kind of charisma drain from being a wall ornament. Charisma is personel magnetism and force of will. A sorsc does not cast his spells based on how good looking it is. Its about how much inner str they have.
angryman 10-17-06, 10:03 PM	Hi, I'm Paris Hilton, star of...what the hell am I famous for anyway? Anyway I'm rich and beautiful and I have a legion of young men & women fantasising over me. So, I win at life. Like, whatever.
KurenaiYami 10-18-06, 02:02 AM	Hi, I'm Paris Hilton, star of...what the hell am I famous for anyway? Anyway I'm rich and beautiful and I have a legion of young men & women fantasising over me. So, I win at life. Like, whatever. No, you're not beautiful. And you have a lazy eye.
Majick 10-18-06, 02:37 AM	He would probably be very, very severely autistic. Withdrawn into himself, barely interacts at all. Excuse me? If someone lacks confidence and doesn't speak up very often they have a mental disability? :mad: Please, if your going to make a comment, use your wisdom and intelligence score and don't just say the first thing that comes into your head, ok, Mr. Charisma :rolleyes:
angryman 10-18-06, 11:14 AM	No, you're not beautiful. And you have a lazy eye. My lazy eye is actually an Eye of Vecna.
aotrscommander 10-18-06, 11:23 AM	My lazy eye is actually an Eye of Vecna. As they say, really, that explains everything.
Ocom 10-18-06, 11:32 AM	People shoud pay closer attantion to the ability's description. Charisma is not how a person looks but it's the force of personality. A half-orc with 3 cha would be a true loner, nobody wants to follow you, belive you or talk to you. You would probably be a slave or outcast. Also you have the leadership ability of a octopus unless you want to make Might makes Right :P
Godzilla 10-18-06, 08:13 PM	Poor speaking is due to low Intelligence, not low Charsima. If you have low Charsima, you have a terrible personality, and are hideously ugly, not bad at forming sentences.
angryman 10-19-06, 09:52 AM	As they say, really, that explains everything. OK, both Paris Hilton and Vecna have things in common: * They're both entirely too thin * One of them is undead and the other one is as smart as a zombie * They're both one dimensional villains
aotrscommander 10-19-06, 09:59 AM	OK, both Paris Hilton and Vecna have things in common: * They're both entirely too thin * One of them is undead and the other one is as smart as a zombie * They're both one dimensional villains And you don't want to hear either of them sing.
dragonfire8974 10-19-06, 11:09 PM	aotrscommander you win the thread. i nearly **** myself when you put And you don't want to hear either of them sing. oh man... i'm crying i'm laughing so hard. by the way, i know i shoulda quoted, but i'm not quite sure how
Vaelan 10-20-06, 01:10 AM	To the people who say he basically has no personality: why is he more likely to anger people whenever he tries to make friends (use Diplomacy)? That certainly implies being offensive.
Andrew_980 10-21-06, 05:24 PM	Excuse me? If someone lacks confidence and doesn't speak up very often they have a mental disability? Yes, low intelligence and wisdom and charisma (the mental stats) being very low (lower than ANY human) can easily be explained as a mental disorder. This is not a quiet fellow with self esteem problems, he is litterally below the lowest a human goes.
Crimsonrhino 10-21-06, 05:34 PM	A female elf in my grp had a charisma of 5. We played her as still very hot to look at but as soon as she opened up her mouth it was like Terets (spelling) syndrom. She thought she was being a smooth talker as she locked eyes in a smokey room with a handsome guy and asked "what the F he was looking at!"
The White Sorcerer 10-21-06, 05:51 PM	Excuse me? If someone lacks confidence and doesn't speak up very often they have a mental disability? :mad: Overreacting much? Any score of 2, to me, suggests some sort of disability.
GenghisUber 10-21-06, 05:53 PM	The best advice I can give on playing a very low charisma character would be to read an internet messageboard and act like that.
raidzuo 10-21-06, 07:00 PM	Wear a full helm and put a gag over your mouth.
epifreak 10-21-06, 09:20 PM	The best advice I can give on playing a very low charisma character would be to read an internet messageboard and act like that. And GenghisUber wins the thread.
Kobold_Avenger 10-21-06, 11:40 PM	Ask the dm for a new char. If that doesn't work ask again. If it still doesn't work beat him with a stick:evillaugh
Amon_WinterfallIV 10-22-06, 02:31 PM	By Raw, your character's force of personality is really, really weak; he's borderline transparent. The fun way to do this is to make him a total non-entity: people ignore him, forget that hes even with the party. He never makes eye contact, he never talks (or nobody listens). The second way to do this is to make caused by emotion: they're very seriously depressed; they are withdrawn to the point where they are always sad and they don't really interact with others. They never have fun, their characters either don't enjoy things they once did, or they simply have no way to have a nice time. The lack the basic conviction to influence others, their sense of self translating to a lack of self worth and self esteem. The Classic way to do it is to have a beligerent, ugly, smelly loudmouth running around getting all the wrong attention.
slaveryISfreedom 10-22-06, 04:15 PM	the DM has said that if i keep it down to 2-3 words its not gona require much, but if i start trying to convince people of a plan (he is smart and very wise) that no one's charecters will believe him and even if it is the best choice he will not let it be used by them. ok heres my thoughts, charisma = force of personality + persuasiveness + likability force of personality = rolling right over someone else who is talking, making other people notice you, etc so the opposite of that is in every conversation if you hear anything at all, your char should stop and defer the conversation to the person who made the noise, even if its breathing or uncontrollable flatulence. this will make others get impatient / annoyed with you. persuasiveness = convince people that a circle is round or that apples are tasty. opposite of that = people are not going to believe you, combined with you stopping in the middle of your sentences to defer the conversation, will make them bug out/ignore any idea. likability = naturally likable at first sight opposite = i don't like you at first sight. +he's an orc, not even other orcs like him ok that said... you said that he has EXtremely high int and wisdom. well he should bank on that, and realize that he has horrible cha, and can't make people believe him. perhaps he should use his wisdom to realize this, then his intelligence to formulate a plan that is the exact opposite of what he wants other people to do (if he can get the whole thing out) example:wisdom spots ambush way far down to the right, intelligence spots trap ahead. charisma we.... should stay.... here andwait for , or um... lets .. no go right? yes? the... re must be ahead, we should go straigh... (but maybe use his wisdom to put himself bodily in between the party and right and straight tunnels and face to the left tunnel as hes doing it.?) i dunno its a thought. enjoy
Koji 10-23-06, 01:01 PM	Excuse me? If someone lacks confidence and doesn't speak up very often they have a mental disability? :mad: Please, if your going to make a comment, use your wisdom and intelligence score and don't just say the first thing that comes into your head, ok, Mr. Charisma :rolleyes: Actually I think he was right. I'd rule that someone with a score in the 3-5 range has an actual disability. Very sickly if that's their constitution, feebleminded if that's their intelligence, or somewhere in the autistic spectrum if that's their charisma. Charisma isn't just how people react to you, it's how good you are at manipulating, understanding, and dealing with others. If you have poor charisma, maybe you're shy or have bad social skills. If you have extremely poor charisma, maybe it's time to look at something a bit further down the scale. Important to note is that charisma is not physical attractiveness, it's the ability to socialize. If an attractive person is also charismatic, they can use their good looks to their advantage, however a particularly ugly person with the same charisma could simply have the confidence and the charm to allow people to get past their appearance. Yes, it probably sits outside the realm of the politically correct, but disability is something to consider as both the player and the DM.